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age
41-50,
writes: (Disclaimer: This article is not about lying to your partner. If you using porn in a relationship is a deal-breaker for her and has become a problem then this is not an article for you to break the conditions of your relationship by using these tips to hide your usage. This article is designed for men for whom porn usage has not become a problem and has not been discussed as an issue at all. It's not about lying, it's about preventing it from ever becoming an issue by being smart about it's usage and never putting her in a position of finding it. A relationship based on lies is not fair on your partner if porn is a deal breaker for them, while I don't find porn in any way similar to cheating, going behind your partner's back to do something you said you wouldn't or that you know would hurt them deeply is just as bad. If that's you, this article is not for you. Also these tips can be for ladies too.)I'm writing this article basically because the majority of posts we get from women here about porn ruining their relationship are from women who didn't even know they had a problem with it until they discovered their partner's usage of it. The idea behind this is the assumption that if they never, ever see any hint of you using it then it will never come up as a problem. I understand many women and men may disagree with that notion, that their partner should not do it in the first place, or that it's a lie of omission. Well it's not, if a person doesn't have a problem with something, is never forced into a position where they have to face it and find out it is a problem then there is no reason it should spoil an otherwise great relationship. You can debate the morals of that notion all day, if you don't agree then fair enough, as always it's up to you to ensure that you clearly define the conditions of your relationship. This article is not a moral discussion and I'm not going to feel bad about any of this based on a differing set of principles. This article is merely about discretion and protecting your partner from something that hasn't become an issue and never has to.Firstly why do a lot of women have a problem with porn? Many varying reasons and for the purpose of this article they are irrelevant. All that needs to be said is that some do and it can be hurtful to their egos and some romantic notion that they're the only woman you will ever look at while with them. For practical purposes they simply don't like to see their guy finding any other woman in any way appealing.But I think you'll find, most women who don't like porn and have trouble with it in relationships didn't know they hated it until confronted by a partner's usage. For women like that they must ensure they no longer get with a guy who watches it and I repeat this is not a means for you to pull the wool over a woman like that's eyes. If she makes it clear she doesn't want it in a relationship either stop completely or let her find a non-user.Rightly or wrongly I think if more guys were discreet about the whole thing then a lot of women would never have this become a problem for them. Whether you agree or disagree I think it can work for a lot of relationships. If there's no problem, then keeping it that way is a good idea.Here's the tips:- No collections. I can understand why guys have collections. They like to have all the videos and pictures of a certain genre or genres in a nice accessible place. They may even find one specific actress or porn star attractive and like to have as much of her stuff as possible. Just like a person may have all Robert Pattison's movies or Rihanna's albums because they think they're awesome. There is no need to have a collection. It literally takes two seconds to find a picture or video of someone online. If you insist on having a collection then be smart. Use a password protected encrypted folder for your collection and hide it deep in the recesses of your program or system files. The best place to hide it is in program files, name it 'Windows Services' and it will just look like any of those random program files. Of course you can choose other places to hide, it use your initiative.If you're a hobbyist and have a large physical collection built up over the years, either put it in storage, give it to friends or take the time to digitize the entire thing onto an external hard drive and then sell it on or dump it. I had a friend recently do that with his entire 500+ DVD collection of regular films. Took a while but it was worth it.- Online search. The last thing you want your girlfriend to see when she types 'Twilight' into google search is to see a suggestion for 'twink getting fucked up the arse hard' come up as one of your previously searched terms. If you have google as your default search engine, then use Bing or Yahoo search for porn. It might seem a no-brainer but it works.- History.Always browse for porn using private browsing, incognito in chrome. This prevents it from saving any history, cookies or any other traces of what you were doing. It also makes browsing those sites a lot safer too. If it's not present in your history then even if she goes looking she won't find any.For extra care always have normal tabs/windows open with normal stuff like Facebook or news websites. That way if she does decide to check it won't look suspicious that you have no history of what you've been doing the past 30 minutes on the computer.Never delete your entire history or cache. That is the most obvious cover up and women don't fall for it. If you forget to privately browse then delete all the porn stuff manually.- No phones. I don't know why but a lot of guys search for porn using their phones, I mean come on where the hell are you wanking if you need your phone for it? If you can't help but do it, then do it on a use only basis. Transfer a video onto it using your computer and then delete it completely once you're done with it. Don't search for it on your phone. It's much better if you just get into the habit of not using your phone for porn at all. Women are obsessed with phones for some reason, mine uses my phone more than she uses her own. Plus a guy who is too protective of his phone around his girlfriend is exceptionally suspicious.- Not while she's around. I don't care if she's asleep, in the shower do not use porn while your girlfriend is around. The chances of slipping up are too high. Never assume she'd understand even if she says she would, just never put her in that position in the first place. Want a wank while she's around? use your imagination and if she asks you were thinking of her. Or even better, do what a friend of mine does and take a picture of her to the bathroom or open up her holiday pics on facebook and have a wank in front of them even if you're imagining a different scenario that she's not involved in. It's not a lie, it's not a deceit, it's simply reassurance to her. The same as telling her that her new hair looks awesome even if it really makes her look like a cheap hooker.- It's not a substitute.This may seem very obvious but you'd be surprised how many guys let their porn usage mess up their sex lives. A happy, sexually fulfilled woman is very unlikely to search for issues. Possibly the best way to show a woman how desirable, beautiful and sexy she is, is to initiate sex a lot, to physically want her and always want that intimacy with her and not just in terms of having a shag but really wanting to spend time pleasuring her and enjoy every last part of her body.Of course there is a time when you will want a quick release too or when she's not around and not going to be around times like those are fine.Try and get into the habit of initiating sex or even just asking for a hand/blow job instead of doing it alone. That way even if she refuses she knows you went to her first. And by the way, never ever have a "spite wank" and use sex as some kind of emotional blackmail tool, it's okay to be disappointed you didn't get sex or pleasure in that moment, masturbation in that case is to release an urge, not a means to show her you're pissed off. You're not a child and she's not your mother.- Recognise addiction and fix it. There are plenty of porn articles and this aunt's profile page, please refer to them should you already be facing this as an issue or even if you just want to understand how people who do have a problem with it have that problem. http://www.dearcupid.org/people/person12345Addiction anything is not good, so read those articles and see if it applies to you.Porn can have nasty effects on a guys sex life, even unintentionally so it's always worth ensuring you're not one of those guys.If you prefer porn to being with your girlfriend or feel you need it, then you have a problem.Finally I'll restate this one last time. If this is already an issue these tips are not for you to lie or hide it better. This is merely a guide designed to have it never become one. I've been dating and in long term relationships for the past 20 years, it has never become a problem for me because I've always been discreet, only the women who enjoy using it too ever really knew about it and it has never had a bad effect on any of my relationships. Just like staring at other women, or gushing over some hot celeb, I just understand there's no need to do that in front of a girlfriend and make her insecure, if women want to live in a fantasy world based around some romantic notion that they're the only woman you ever think about in any way, then there's no need to mess with that and it's easy to ensure they don't.Most women understand that guys don't go blind when they're in relationships but even the most open minded don't exactly like to have that shoved in their faces too often, and most don't want to see any evidence of that at all. Women compare themselves to other women, don't let them get the idea that you compare them to anyone or give them any kind of frame of reference as to the kind of girl you like looking at. They'll almost always find something in that woman to be jealous of.
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female
reader, YouWish  +, writes (3 May 2013):
 There is a big stumbling block to the debate over whether it's the woman's responsibility to ask, or whether a guy should be upfront over his porn use at an appropriate stage in a growing relationship.
The stumbling block is many women's equating of porn to cheating, visiting prostitutes, or the like. This makes the question "How do you feel about porn use inside a relationship" and the more direct question "Do you use porn" as seemingly crazy as the questions "Do you still pay hookers for sex while we're going out" and "Do you sleep around while we're together". Times are changing, yes, but those questions border the unfathomable for many women who make the comparison to ask.
That's precisely why I think a guy should be upfront about it, not lie about it, not say "I stopped" but be honest. The reason why it's unpopular is simple.
There are more men who watch porn than there are women who accept its use inside of a relationship. PerfectionIsPerception hit it on the head -- by lying, men take the choice away from women to either accept or not. Porn is a huge deal breaker for many women, but there are women who feel differently. It does not boil down to a woman's mere insecurity, but a choice whether they want a relationship with it or without it.
Not only that, but when a man, either by outright lying, or simply concealing its use, misrepresent themselves to their partners. What makes this different from concealing smoking, or drinking, or legal drug use is the fact that it's very personal. Something this personal to a man and a woman shouldn't be concealed. No wonder that one of the biggest assaults on marriage, or partnership is the loss of intimacy, and I'm talking about much more than sex itself.
It's not the easy way, but in my opinion, being upfront about porn use is the best way. There are many women out there who do not hate porn, who don't understand what it is, and who are using it without knowing it. So many centuries of ingraining into women that they must not enjoy sex, and that they can't be sexual on their own apart from men are hard to evolve away from. Seriously, women who masturbate know that it's as easy and as quick and effortless of a release as it is for a man to masturbate. Men do not understand women, and thanks to that culture and perception, too many women have bought the idea that they're not supposed to understand themselves.
If enough men were honest upfront, I think that the viewpoints of many women would change. I truly think that the issue of porn does not happen because of a woman's insecurity. I think it's man's insecurity, and the belief which exists to this day in spite of the explosion of an overwhelming supply of free and easy porn is that it is bad and to be hidden.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (3 May 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYou know in the past I was of the opinion that lying about it is an okay thing to do in pretty much every respect. In some respects and in some cases I think it may be okay to a certain degree. Married with kids, always dabbled in it a bit, always been discreet, never a regular user and it never came up but has in a casual conversation I think it's okay to say "no not really" or "once or twice" or "I gave it up ages ago". To me that's as okay as not admitting that the you've more than once imagined what it would be like to bone your female boss or something like that. A harmless thing to have done that doesn't need to be made an issue out of.
Until I came here and debated the topic I never really thought people could let it get to them that much, I mean it's just two people having sex what's the big deal, kind of attitude.
I've done a lot of soul searching on the topic since I came here and while I do think a hatred of it is irrational and will never agree that view has any merit in reasonable rational thought, that's not to say it doesn't have a profound emotional impact. I really do think if my partner for some reason felt hurt by my usage I'd give it up without a second thought and just revert to regular movies, women's fashion magazines etc for my masturbation aids.
Of course I'd be damned if I'd give it up for a reason of emotional blackmail or demand, and I'd feel very hard done by if she suddenly turned around after all these years and said she hated it but only tolerated it because she thought all men did. Then I'm the person who was lied to.
The best advice to give any woman who hates it is to make sure she mentions it up front in a very clear manner. If the guy lies and she finds out then he's 100% in the wrong. But if it's important to her and she says nothing but just hopes then to me she's in the wrong.
I think as much as men/women users need to exercise total discretion on the matter I think those who hate it need to understand that the very popular notion that if they love you, they'll stop, is not the basis for a good relationship. Just like I don't want heroin in my life, I'm not going to date a user hoping my love with cure them nor think for one second that if I catch them using heroin one year into the relationship that they'll stop just for me.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (3 May 2013):
 The last survey I saw on the issue said that 70% of men have lied to their partner about their usage at least to some extent (some flat out lie some lie about the amount of time spent or whether they've paid for it etc...).
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (2 May 2013):
 Pr3tty_in_pink86 said:
“Not sure if I entirely agree as they have been cleared up and not going to cause harm to the other person.”
No the cleared up STDS won’t cause harm but the BEHAVIOR that enabled the person to CATCH the STD may cause harm.
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reader, anonymous, writes (2 May 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI agree there shouldn't be lies when asked, I also understand the assumption that the guy doesn't use it so the woman assumes that's the case.
For me that's reason enough to practice total discretion on the issue.
Now lies are not a good basis for a relationship at all. If asked then guys should be honest.
As for the retro-jealousy analogy I used, I do think it bears many similarities. Both are only relevant to one partner and neither have an effect on the relationship on a practical level, in most respects.
Porn has never affected my sex life negatively. Okay there have been one of two times my partner initiated sex straight after I had masturbated and I wasn't ready to perform but that's just masturbation and not porn. To me porn is 100% irrelevant to my ability to be a good partner regardless of how important an issue it is for the woman. Just as much as a woman's past can be wholly irrelevant to the woman she is now, but many men think it's a major issue that is relevant.
The only time I think a man should be up front about porn usage is if it's an actual problem for him, he has an addiction etc. The only time I think it should be mentioned up front is if it has any practical effect on how he is as a partner.
The same as a woman should only reveal her past if it's relevant to the guy, a current STD or a known, popular public reputation as a slut that the guy is going to hear about from someone.
Otherwise it's up to the guy to ensure he finds out whether she's not a paragon of virginity and it's up to the woman to find out if he's a degenerate porn perv.
To me it has no relevance on a practical level, and for me it's best to keep it that way by being discreet.
Thinking back some of my exs were insecure enough that porn may have been a problem if they found a video of a hard body 18 year old in a cheer leaders costume on my computer. But they never did. Just like they never saw me ogle or comment about that divine beauty at the bar who turned heads.
I think there are a lot of women who know guys use porn and accept it in the sense that it's normal but don't really like it if you know what I mean. I'm pretty sure there are a lot who would prefer never to be forced to face any evidence that their boyfriend or husband uses it than to bluntly state that he never should.
If it was as black and white as love/hate, then I think an upfront policy may have merit. But there are so many grey areas, so many people who don't have an opinion but the potential to feel hurt by it, women who assume it's something all guys do but just hope theirs doesn't and hope it never becomes a problem.
I think for all the grey areas, the women who are undecided or even the women who think they're okay with it but haven't had to face it in any kind of meaningful way, I think discretion is not a matter of hiding a dirty little secret and more a matter of courtesy and respect.
It is important to most women that they don't have a partner who ogles other women, most are smart enough to only expect that while they're there, but lots really hate the idea that their guy may have eyes for another. I think women expect the courtesy and respect of a guy not to stare at tits while they're with each other.
Well to me keeping porn use discreet is an extension of that courtesy and respect.
So again, I'd only feel compelled to reveal it if it affected my ability to be a good partner. If I had an addiction or could only maintain an erection by watching violent porn then that is relevant to the woman and she should know what she's dealing with.
Otherwise it's not important to me, it's just a masturbation tool that they'll never see and I'll assume they don't care.
I don't think it's big enough of a deal to mention up front and I don't see why it would benefit anything to mention it. It's important to me that I don't get with a woman who has cheated in the past, not even once, so I find that out. Most people don't care because most people cheat.
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female
reader, YouWish +, writes (1 May 2013):
Pr3tty_in_pink86, agree with you there. And some women still believe that a guy will automatically stop stuff like that because they're dating, which would be consistent with their whole "porn is cheating" outlook on it. So they wouldn't think of asking because they assume that a guy wouldn't use porn behind their back in the same thought as a guy wouldn't cheat behind their back. A guy stating that he uses porn would sidestep the entire issue altogether.
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female
reader, YouWish +, writes (1 May 2013):
Heh, it's not the same issue revealing the intimate details of past relationships, because they have no bearing on the present one. Porn is a present issue, happening during and concurrent with the relationship. It's not the same thing. However, a woman (or a man) should be honest about their track record for compatibility. Some women or men prefer to date other people who only have sex in monogamous relationships, and others don't care if there are multiple casual partners.
I look at the issue of porn the same as I do smoking or drinking. I personally don't date smokers, having seen the effects of it and not liking to kiss someone with tobacco breath. I will concede that the woman should ask now if a guy uses porn. However, many many men lie about it. If people say that a huge percentage of guys use it at least occasionally, and likewise a very large percentage of women dislike its use in a relationship, you can see where guys hope the issue never comes up.
If you are serious that if a woman asks, that the guy be upfront and honest with his answer that he uses it, then I can roll with that. But even in discussions of sexuality, stuff like using sex toys, or porn, or fetishes such as cross-dressing or whatever should be talked about, and if a guy is serious about being in a long-term relationship with a woman, he'll be comfortable with her knowing about his porn use the same as a woman should be free to discuss her using a 2x4 to pleasure herself with.
Because here's what I get from your original post, that the guy should keep it a secret and hope it never becomes an issue. Sorry, but if someone has a 600+ DVD collection, why not disclose it? Some women actually would be impressed. Not all women are insecure prudes who want to own a man's ability to have an orgasm. Say a guy never mentions it. He starts dating a woman, and 8 months go by. Say they move in together and some news article about porn and erectile dysfunction pops up. The woman is curious and asks her boyfriend if he uses it? How many guys would be honest in that moment? Most would feel even more poleaxed than if she asked him if her jeans make her look fat. Guys lie.
And you mentioned listing ever flaw and private fantasy. Since when is porn a flaw? Drinking, smoking, gambling, they're considered "vices", but to a woman who is not threatened by porn and who may use it themselves, porn is no flaw. However, it's again, compatibility. I don't date smokers, though I have no problem and no judging of anyone who smokes. I have many friends who smoke. My parents smoke off and on. But it's my choice. I would be pissed if I didn't want to date a drinker and met a guy who hid a flask and carried breath mints around.
It's at the heart of intimacy. I accept that my husband uses it, and I'm not dumb to the fact that when someone who looks like Nikki Nova or whoever is on the screen, or Olivia Wilde, that he'll admire her. It doesn't bother me that anyone looks better than I do. He, on his own, told me that he used porn while we were dating, and he was terrified to tell me thinking I was going to judge him as some huge sinner. On the contrary, his jaw hit the ground when I said I was okay with it, and it turned into one of the most intimate and best discussions of sexuality we've ever had. He does share fantasies with me, and I do with him. Some I'm up for trying, some will probably stay a fantasy. heh.
I will concede that if it means that much to a woman, she should ask. But I won't give up the notion that a guy be up front with it, especially if he's got some huge collection or is a pretty big user of it, because you know and I know that porn use can have physical side effects, be it an inability to orgasm from intercourse to Erectile Dysfunction, things that if a woman doesn't know are a factor, can make even the most secure of women doubt herself.
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female
reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86  +, writes (1 May 2013):
STDs should be disclosed even if they are cleared up
Not sure if I entirely agree as they have been cleared up and not going to cause harm to the other person.
I think alot of women forget to express their concern about the porn thing at the beginning if they haven't experienced alot of problems with it already, it won't be fresh in their mind.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (1 May 2013):
Here I go thinking like a man again. (I SWEAR I'm a woman)
STDs should be disclosed even if they are cleared up
But to be honest I agree with Cerberus on the porn issue.
IF porn BOTHERS a woman it's incumbent on HER to say something or ask.... but then it's also incumbent on the man to be honest about his porn usage.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 May 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"This all boils down to the fact that if many women were to know upfront and were given the choice over whether they wanted to date a guy who uses porn, they'd most likely decide NOT to pursue a relationship with the guy."
Then women have to ask that. Simple as that. It's important to women, not us. So it's up to the person it's important to to find that out, if women want to know anything up front, then ask.
So you think it's up to the guy to consider every possible thing about himself that the woman may not like and make sure he lists them all of them up front? List out every flaw he has, everything he may think she may have take issue to? No because that's not the real world. We're allowed our private fantasies and we don't have to list them "just in case" they're not liked. Especially seeing as porn doesn't mean anything nearly as profound a thing to us as it is to a lot of women.
Then you think out of fairness then that women should say up front that they use a 14 inch dildo? Just in case the guy might feel threatened that his penis size doesn't compare? Don't try and say that doesn't happen, it does and you know it. Or should she reveal that she had a train of 10 guys when she was in college just in case the guy thinks she's too promiscuous for his taste? Well you may think she should, I don't think so. It has no relevance to him and it's none of his business. Well what we do with our penis when we're on our own is none of the business either as long as we don't break any pre-set conditions of the relationship that she set out. So she has to set that out. Cheating etc are universal things, porn is not.
At the end of the day it's simple. If it's important to the woman, then she needs to find out what his deal is. If she doesn't then it's not important so it's best to just keep it discreet so it never becomes a problem. Who knows, maybe the woman doesn't even know she'd have a problem with it until faced with it and if she never has to face it then it never becomes an issue.
If I ever find myself single again, I will never freely offer up the fact that I use porn as a tool for masturbation. If they ask I'll be honest, but I'm not going to make a big deal out of something I think means nothing and if they don't ask they'll never find out, just like a quite a few of my exs, because I know how to be discreet about it.
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female
reader, YouWish +, writes (1 May 2013):
"Oh come on YouWish, that would only ever change if porn actresses weren't supposedly "superior" to normal women or women weren't so insecure about their own bodies and desirability."
Come on yourself, Cerberus. This all boils down to the fact that if many women were to know upfront and were given the choice over whether they wanted to date a guy who uses porn, they'd most likely decide NOT to pursue a relationship with the guy. Times change. There was a time when women wore chastity belts too, or were told to not enjoy sex. Those times weren't too distant.
Porn and menstruation aren't the same thing at all. You can't compare whether a woman's personal hygiene with porn usage. If a guy discovered that a woman wore a tampon, big deal. It's different with porn and you know it.
You're making two assumptions here that teaching others to adhere to will undermine their relationships. First, you think that *all* women are insecure and would be threatened by these so-called "superior" porn stars. And second, you're saying that taking the choice away from a woman is better off. Better for who?
Let's talk about this -- you mentioned the word "superior" in terms of porn stars. Yes, some insecure women think that this is true, but most actually don't think that at all. Porn stars are not superior. Most of the internet stuff involves women wincing with pain yet pretending to feel pleasure at the sex acts hoisted on them. Do you think women are stupid? Maybe with the exception of your girlfriend, you consider all women to be fragile, timid women who need men to know what's best for them.
If you're making comparisons here, let me make one as well. Throw out the whole nonsense of tampons, public ogling, and insecurity issues. Let's talk an STD like herpes. Let's say a guy has it, but feeling like any girl he is interested in dating won't date him if she knew, so he is careful. He always uses condoms, always practices immaculate hygiene, and during a breakout, he finds a reason to "be busy". He thinks that if the issue is never brought up, she's none the wiser or upset.
You made my point for me here: "Maybe porn isn't really an issue for a woman but it may be a tiny deciding factor in whether she'd date a guy, just like him having an STD once when he was 18 or something."
If that's not an assumption that men are insecure about their dating chances, I don't know what is. A guy should date and be himself with a woman who accepts him. You are lucky to have found a woman like that. You mentioned fetish behavior, and I sure as hell would hope that he would find a girl or a guy who accepts those things about him too. It may take longer, but searching in the right places usually finds people of like mindedness.
Now, porn use isn't a contagious disease, but you're making the same argument. You speak more to the insecurity of a guy to be able to knowingly have a relationship with a girl who accepts and understands his personal porn use. I have no problem with porn. I have a problem with concealment. You want a relationship that starts out wonderfully and ends with hurt and betrayal? Then hide a major part of sexuality.
Don't lead men astray into assuming that women are better off not knowing, and most definitely, don't take the choice out of a woman's hands simply because the choice may not be the one you want. Times change. Viewpoints evolve. We're better off being ourselves and knowing the whole person we're involved with, rather than sticking our heads in the sand and making assumptions.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 May 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYouWish, I don't think many guys would be too quick to label themselves as "porn user" especially in the process of dating. There are many things you don't just up and bring up in the process of dating. "I like anal and to be spat upon""I like to sniff girls knickers""I like to taste my own poop" being examples.
If it's going to be an issue for the woman then it's up to her to find it out, it's not information guys should freely offer in my mind especially when it's such a weird thing to bring up. Even women who are okay with it may think this guy is a little too fond of porn that he feels to "out" himself that way.
YouWish she's not the only partner I've had, porn has never been an issue in any of my relationships mostly because it never came up, only the ones who used it themselves ever saw any evidence of my usage. It wouldn't have come up in this one either if I didn't know well beforehand that she likes to use it too.
I think you're slightly missing the point, it's not about hoping anything, it's not about keeping it a dark secret, it doesn't matter that much. It's about problem prevention from discretion, it's not a problem now so best to keep it that way. Like changing a tampon in the bathroom instead of putting one leg on the bed and popping it right out in front of your partner with a nice view. Or not openly ogling women's tits when your partner is beside you but doing so when with your guy friends, out of sight, out of mind kind of way of doing things. Ogling other women would become a major issue if you did it in front of your partner, so you just make sure she's not around when you do, no problem then.
If a woman thinks it's cheating then she needs to tell that guy from the start, it's up to all of us to make sure our requirements are met, not just assume people are going to meet them.
Plus I know plenty of women who are on the fence about porn, they've never had to face it in a relationship so they don't know how they'd feel about their guy jerking off to porn. They're okay with it in the sense of not judging people who use it, but not sure they like the idea of their boyfriend doing it. So why force them into making that choice, or shoving it in their face like a vagina gushing with blood, when you can just keep discreet about it.
"Maybe if guys were more upfront, the issue of the many women who find it cheating may change."
Oh come on YouWish, that would only ever change if porn actresses weren't supposedly "superior" to normal women or women weren't so insecure about their own bodies and desirability. If they view it as cheating it's not because they weren't told, it's because the guy is supposedly being sexually satisfied by another woman and she can't be enough for him them or something along those lines. Knowing that beforehand isn't going to make her more secure about it. Knowing you're not going to be enough for him as they think and that he can see other women as pretty too beforehand is going to do nothing but prevent her getting with a guy she may actually really work with.
You know as well as I do that dating can be ruthless and it should be. Maybe porn isn't really an issue for a woman but it may be a tiny deciding factor in whether she'd date a guy, just like him having an STD once when he was 18 or something. There is no reason to bring it up, just assume the woman is not bothered about it or in the very least doesn't want to know unless she herself brings it up. Then make sure you're always discreet and polite enough never to shove it in her face or let her see it, just like you would never let her see your mouth drop when that incredibly fine specimen of the female kind walks past in her next to nothing bikini.
Discretion is the better part of valour.
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reader, YouWish +, writes (1 May 2013):
Sorry I'm late, and this is a good, thought-provoking article. I have one question though.
What is so wrong about disclosing during the beginning of a dating process that you use porn? This article is written primarily so that a guy does NOT have to say anything, that if it's never seen or talked about, that there never is an issue. The question is - why? Why not instead bypass all of the "I hope she never asks me the question or I slip up and she discovers I use porn" by saying directly during the "get to know you" process that you're a porn user?
Maybe if guys were more upfront, the issue of the many women who find it cheating may change. Not only that, but if the guy says to the girl that he uses porn on occasion, she is free to make her own decision about whether or not he or she is compatible. I think that's a better approach than hoping it never comes up. Because if this article really truly means that you're not supposed to lie to your partner, then what is the proper answer to a woman's passing question "Do you use porn"? Because regardless of how good a guy is at renaming files, choosing proper times to surf, putting up a girlfriend or wife's picture to give them this reassurance that it's them they're wanking to, if the woman asks whether the guy uses porn or not, the only answer that would validate the spirit of this article is the true one.
Women who discover that their guy is using porn behind their back tend to feel betrayed. That could be avoided if he tells her he uses it and it's out there. Your relationship works Cerberus precisely because it's out there. You can't compare your usage and your girlfriend's compatibility with it to someone who says nothing and hopes that their girlfriend never asks.
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reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (29 January 2013):
Well he did seem very open about showing me his collection lol. Yeah people will keep it quiet if they have cheated, it's a sh*tty scummy world out there.
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 January 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"I would like to say this, my ex was 36 years old and it should of been obvious to him at his age to know that porn is upsetting to some women in a relationship."
Just because he knows, doesn't mean he should go out of his way to find out. It's up to women to ensure he's not doing something they dislike. I mean I don't date cheaters, I will not ever get with or stay with someone who has cheated in the past so I ensure that I find out whether they have or not before I get serious with them, it's up to me find that out. Most people don't offer that info freely.
Plus I don't find anything wrong with porn so I'll just assume the lady feels the same unless she says otherwise.
"I also think if someone was truly meant for you, you wouldn't have to tell them how to behave, they would already know."
Strange way of seeing things, I doubt there's anyone who doesn't do at least one thing that annoys you or bothers you, it is okay to tell people things like that.
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reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (23 January 2013):
I would like to say this, my ex was 36 years old and it should of been obvious to him at his age to know that porn is upsetting to some women in a relationship.
I also think if someone was truly meant for you, you wouldn't have to tell them how to behave, they would already know.
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reader, Serpico +, writes (8 January 2013):
Just another page in support of evolutionary behavior. Overwhelmingly, women hate that men watch porn, but men don't get why. Men hate a woman's promiscuous past, but women don't get why.
This same record will play over and over for centuries.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (8 January 2013):
To HappyPlace, I've never had a man lie to me about porn. They watch it. I'm ok with it. Why LIE?
MEN who have to lie about porn are with women who find it unacceptable. Since there are men out there that do not watch porn, and there are women out there that don't mind porn... the best thing to do is hook the women who hate porn up with the men that don't watch it and let the guys who like porn be with women like me.
I guess I"m an inadequate loser. I watched some alone last week. Hubby was downstairs at the time. He didn't come up and say "whatcha doing?" or "whatcha watching?" had he, do you think I would have lied? No. I would have said.... "skinamax honey"..... and he would have laughed.
He would not have asked to join me as my sex drive is much higher than his and while I rarely watch porn I often take care of myself.....
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"I think men who watch porn are inadequate losers with a very poor view of women."
Oh really? The what does that make women who watch porn then, in your mind? Or is just men you hate?
"There are far more important things to do with your life, rather than sitting at a pc jacking off."
Oh yeah? So we can't take a break from curing cancer to have a quick wank in your book then, no?
Seems pretty clear where the double standard is here. men = bad, women = victims, eh? I don't think so.
I can spare 5 minutes in my day to have a wank and so can my fiancée.
I can think of a million better things you could do with you time rather than judge people as inadequate for not sharing the same views as you.
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reader, HappyPlace +, writes (8 January 2013):
 I am amazed at the double standards here. I wrote years ago about being honest up front about not liking porn with a new partner and I'm fairly sure I was shot down in flames - I will try and find what I wrote so I can link it! Porn brings out the very worst in men, in terms of lying about it - I think it's called having your cake and eating it! I fail to see how any woman would want to be intimate with a man who watches porn. I think men who watch porn are inadequate losers with a very poor view of women. There are far more important things to do with your life, rather than sitting at a pc jacking off.
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reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (4 January 2013):
I guess you're lucky Ceberus. It still hurts me that my ex boyfriend used porn whilst dating me, I thought he was different but he wasn't, but for those who don't like it there are definately people suited to you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 January 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI don't find that offensive. It's simple I'm defending the choice and the idea that it doesn't have to be a problem for peopIe and guys who use porn aren't some kind of lowlifes anymore than women who hate it are "just" insecure.
We both use porn regularly and probably always will. I see no reason to try and help others with what works for us. Not everyone has to hate it just because a few do.
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reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (29 December 2012):
Ceberus don't be offended by this but you seem a little too interested in porn considering you're in a happy relationship. I don't even understand why you are so struck on defending porn use in a relationship.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 December 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"I can't even read all this, you must think we're f**king stupid"
Not all, just you, seeing as you reply without even reading it properly or fully.
"This should have been called 'how to wank to porn without your girlfriend finding out'"
Why? It's the exact same thing.
"I'm starting to think you have porn problem and are just in denial"
Think whatever you want, you're just angry little idiot with nothing important to say and an opinion no one cares about.
"500+ porn DVD's - that's the saddest s**t I've ever heard, lol and I'm betting they were yours!"
LOL I said regular movies, can't even read properly LOL. Yeah some of those were mine, ones I'd lent him ages ago and let him sell because I got copies of all of them off him.
Thanks for your non-contribution, says lot about you even if it has nothing to do with the topic.
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female
reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (16 December 2012):
One of the things that got to me was, my ex didn't make a fuss out of me sexually enough, that's possibly the main reason I dumped him. I even said to him one night if someone broke into my emails they would not know he was my boyfriend. Who knows, if he had been making lots of fuss over the way I look telling me how good the sex was I might not of been bothered as much. Not once did he email me or text me discussing the night before. I have a handful of mildly suggestive texts that's it. I believe he began using porn more and more and that's when the messages trailed off.
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reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (15 December 2012):
Cerberus some of us aren't that secure unfortunately :(
I did have a boyfriend who although he cheated (he was depressed and she was more supportive) adored me physically infact he was almost obsessed. He told me he didn't watch porn when with me years later I found out he did but he also thought of me sometimes when he was doing the masturbation thing. The women here including me are upset because their boyfriend only uses porn and never thinks of them during masturbation. My ex said I pick that over you when you aren't here and that annoyed me.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 December 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"The biggest problem for me with porn is that I no longer feel that giving my body to someone is something special."
The only time I can ever say I felt like that was with an ex who had a very promiscuous past, I mean triple digits. For a while I couldn't see how I could be in any way special to her sexually if she's had that many men. I got over it though once I realized it doesn't matter if she'd only slept with one guy or the number she really did I was her partner then and what we had was special and sex was part of that special bond we had regardless of whether she'd had tonnes of other partners and regardless of whether she liked to look at other guys.
"Can't say I've ever felt that way over here where you have a hard time NOT seeing a naked person everyday."
I can't really compare to those societies I've never lived there but covering women up is not something I really agree with, not just because I like eye candy but because I don't think there is anything shameful or dirty about nudity.
Venus, I have had a lot of sex partners, I use porn regularly and I'm with my girlfriend 7 years now. I still gaze longingly at her. If I wake before her I still spend a few minutes just watching her sleep before I get up. I still peek down her top to catch a bit of boob if she bends over, I still get the urge to smack her ass when she walks by. I still will grab her and pull her onto my lap if she's walking past and I still love to watch her go through her morning routine and just examine every inch of her face and body as she's doing so.
That kind of stuff never gets old for me, I'm surrounded by women, nudity and actively look for naked women in porn to use as a wank aid, she does too but we still can spend a full hour after sex just looking at each other, smiling and not saying anything.
Porn and nudity has had no effect on me in that sense.
I'm only in love with one woman, I only desire one woman, the thought of another woman touching me in real life is not nice for me because it's not her. But I still like to check out other women, just as she likes to check out other men. We point out beautiful specimens of our species to each other regardless of gender. If I see a guy with a particularly great ass I will point it out to her so she can feast her eyes on it too.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 December 2012): I can't even read all this, you must think we're f**king stupid. This should have been called 'how to wank to porn without your girlfriend finding out'
I'm starting to think you have porn problem and are just in denial. 500+ porn DVD's - that's the saddest s**t I've ever heard, lol and I'm betting they were yours!
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female
reader, VenusFlowerBasket +, writes (15 December 2012):
The biggest problem for me with porn is that I no longer feel that giving my body to someone is something special. Western society is so over sexualised. Even music videos border on the pornographic. I remember reading a story about a western woman who moved to one of those countries where they have to cover everything up, and when her friend asked if she minded, she said no, because the love and lust in her husbands eyes when she was naked was just amazing, for both of them it was something special. Can't say I've ever felt that way over here where you have a hard time NOT seeing a naked person everyday.
It is depressing at best.
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reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (15 December 2012):
I believe women get upset mainly because they thought were the only one their boyfriend was looking at, if I had known about the fact he owned porn from the beginning and used it all along life would of been very different now.
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reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (15 December 2012):
I would hate to realise I was spending my life with someone who had been using porn all along but saying they weren't and gad stopped. That is horrible.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 December 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm not in favour of it being used as tool for deceit in a relationship where a woman is opposed to it. I've said that.
The point you seem to have missed was this "What is the point of asking questions if you don't want an answer?"
I wasn't saying they were answers to questions but actually saying the things without prompting, without being asked, just coming out and saying "babe, you've gotten very fat" or "hey babe, you know my ex Tom? Did I ever tell you he's better in bed than you and has the nicest penis of any I've ever had?". I mean that may be true but really, why would you say that? Is that too a lie of omission? I don't think it is, that would just be better not said I view porn use in the same way. In the same way, why would you sit there with your dick in your hand watching porn when your girlfriend walks in? Or why would you have "cum guzzling sluts" as one of your search terms?
Sure if the woman asks, don't lie but if she doesn't ask then don't say it either. If your boyfriend asks is Tom's dick better, you simply say it's irrelevant or what kind of question is that? That's not a lie of omission, he really doesn't need to know Tom's dick was more amazing.
That's the point I'm trying to make. Not a lie of omission, as that needs you to know it's something that needs to be lied about. The assumption here is it's not, it's just polite discretion.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (15 December 2012):
What point specifically am I not responding to? I went back through and re-read them and didn't see anything else.
"The onus is on the people who hate it to ensure they don't have to deal with it,"
70% of men admit lying about it, so how are women supposed to do this exactly? Frankly I'm not convinced there are that many people in this niche where she was just completely unaware that porn could be an issue and than all of a sudden she just discovers it randomly. The majority of the time on these questions the woman has said she doesn't like it and the guy says he'll stop, then continues using. That's more common than the woman I think you are picturing here who just has no idea that porn is common in a relationship.
The issue I have with this article is that it will encourage that majority of porn users who do lie to keep pretending they don't use it or lying however else they do, or to just start straight off by lying in a new relationship.
Except in very specific cases, I don't understand the point of lying about many of the things you list. If I ask my boyfriend if something looks ugly, I want him to give me an honest answer. I'm normally a US 2 and he has told me when I've gained weight. What is the point of asking questions if you don't want an answer? Every so often I've specifically asked for a "friend honest" answer, but it's rare.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 December 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"I think some men just assume a woman isn't going to bothered because they wouldn't be bothered if their girlfriend did the same."
Exactly the assumption I always made and one I will still make with any woman unless they specifically tell me it's not okay.
"My psychotherapist did say how does someone know how to behave if you don't tell them. It is obvious that it might upset some women though."
I honestly thought that was only religious women or bra burners but hey, you live and you learn.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 December 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAgain you don't even respond to any of my points. It's not a lie by omission and that is clear. Porn is not something that needs to be discussed up front because it doesn't matter. You can and the women who have a problem with it should too, but if they don't that's not a problem for those of us that don't care.
So that 60% can make it clear to 80+% of guys and 40% of women that don't care or like it that they don't want them using it.
If they don't, then not mentioning it and keeping it private is okay.
"But going through and wiping clean absolutely every trace of porn from your computer is giving the impression you don't watch and you know that."
There's no impression given at all, that's the point.
You need to talk about it up front, most people don't because even amongst those who don't like it, there are plenty who don't have as much of a hatred for it. You just want to see it wiped off the face of the earth and that's fine. But to say everyone has to be open about it at all times. Well shit person12345 that's 60% of women who can't be with 80% of men. Sounds like you'd rather drive a wedge through people's relationships than find some kind of middle ground from which to work on.
I'm sure there are plenty of women that wish they never found out their partner used porn in the first place. It had no effect on anything for most of them then became and elephant in the room once it did. At least I'm trying to help things reconcile a bit while keeping the options open. You just seem to want to sell and agenda from a point of view of pure hatred for porn. Seems I'm the only person of the two of us who has used the others point of view to open my mind about the subject. You seem to grow more extreme with each post. I can't remember you fighting so hard to promote the "porn is cheating" line before, or maybe my memory is just bad.
Ignorance can be bliss, your partner never needs know you've had better sex than with him or his penis is on the smaller side of the ones you've had. (not saying that's the case obviously) but it's a point I keep making you don't address. We don't divulge every single thing, past event or thought to our partners, it's okay to not say things too.
The onus is on the people who hate it to ensure they don't have to deal with it, it's not up to those that don't to and it's certainly a better idea to be completely discreet about it.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (14 December 2012):
"Cheating hurts even if the person doesn't know about it, porn is not the same at all."
60% of the female population would disagree with you there. Porn is something that needs to be talked about up front. It would be one thing if she didn't bring it up and he was simply watching it like anything else he watches or looks at. But going through and wiping clean absolutely every trace of porn from your computer is giving the impression you don't watch and you know that.
This isn't getting permission for everything, this is a massive issue in a lot of relationships and has started coming up in a lot of divorces.
I did read the article but just because you put a large disclaimer at the top saying you're not lying, doesn't erase the fact that you are telling men to lie to their girlfriends by omission. I have seen you directly tell men on here that they should lie to their girlfriends about this issue.
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reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (14 December 2012):
This whole porn thing is difficult, it is not proper cheating as we know... I think some men just assume a woman isn't going to bothered because they wouldn't be bothered if their girlfriend did the same. It's a thing people do assume everybody thinks like them I was flummoxed to find my beautiful boyfriend didn't hold the same view as me on porn in a relationship.
My psychotherapist did say how does someone know how to behave if you don't tell them. It is obvious that it might upset some women though.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (14 December 2012):
Person12345, with all due respect (and when it comes to this topic I bow to you as the expert here at DC) isn't this lie of omission only going to occur if the woman does not take responsibility for her feelings and let the man know early on in the relationship that she dislikes porn so that the man can choose NOT to be with her (for both their sakes)
I agree with both of you if you can believe it.
I know my husband watches porn. Mostly on the computer. Occasionally we will watch the very soft core porn stuff on Cinamax at night... but that usually just makes us laugh....
I also know that he has a folder on his computer just for porn.
He doesn't say 'hey honey I have a porn folder on my computer' And his wallpaper is usually some pretty well known porn star (usually with clothes) and I always say "who is that?" and he tells me "porn star so and so"
IF he was not so open about his porn use his comment might be "actress so and so" which is not a lie technically.
My father used to keep magazines in his night table that were Penthouse and Playboy and I'm sure my mom knew but I doubt it was discussed.
Since women who object to porn often believe all men use porn, isn't it on them to say to the man "hey I'm really against porn use and if we are in a relationship I will expect you to not use porn." and for him to then make the choice to say "I don't use porn" (the truth) "I will stop" (as the truth) or "I'm sorry we won't be able to have a relationship as I will not be giving up my use of porn."
The only time it would be a lie is if he was asked and said "I will stop" and then he does not and he hides it.
Other than that I see no need to disagree with the idea that porn usage much like masturbation is private and therefore should be kept out of sight out of mind.
IF a woman knows her man uses porn she doesn't check his history or files... she knows it's there. If a woman has told a man not to use porn and he said he would stop and she's checking up on him then isn't the problem hers because she does not trust him?
wouldn't it be better for a woman to say to a man who says "I do but I'll stop" that she is sorry but she knows from experience that she will never believe him and therefore she might as well not have a relationship with him?
If it bothered me that he watched porn it was incumbent on me early in the relationship to let him know.
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 December 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYou know for the first time I think I actually see an irrational emotive argument from you perons12345. I said none of those things. You're reading what you want to read and are ignoring what I said.
"If it hurts her so much that you have to hide it and sneak around and pretend you're not doing it or you will devastate her, then you shouldn't be doing it."
Did you even read the article? that's what I said, more than once.
"but you're advising guys on the premise that their girlfriend DOES care, or at least they think she might."
Where did I say that? You're just twisting what I said. #
I went to great pains to state that it isn't about lying, I went to great lengths to state that if it is a problem you shouldn't hide it.
This is about preventing the problem, a just in case scenario.
Well you may live on mights and maybes I live in my life on certainties and will act accordingly.
"Unless your girlfriend says "I'm OK with porn but please keep it out of my sight" then you are lying by omission."
That is just ridiculous, we need to get permission now on everything is it? If we don't speak out about every little thought of thing we've ever done that they may be a problem for someone that's a lie of omission, that's impractical and sounds controlling.
"If a guy also wanted to have sex with his ex on the side while dating a new girl, it's still lying/cheating to do even if she doesn't know it's happening."
Oh I see, so porn is the same as sex on the side it is? Yeah, I don't think so.
"I know that if I found out my partner of several years had been using it secretly behind my back I would never forgive him."
That's because he knows how you feel about it. You really wouldn't be able to forgive him if he was using it and you never found out because it just never came up? I don't think so either.
You see you're trying to project what pain you would have onto everyone else, well we all don't think like you person12345, we don't all think porn is that big of an issue. I ran this article by my girlfriend before I posted it. She was the one who suggested the phone part of this.
She thinks it's a great idea. She's a psychologist too. There is a difference between lying to someone you know doesn't like something. Cheating for example is one that pretty much everyone knows their partner will not like and is widely accepted as wrong. Porn is not in the same category socially at all. Especially not in Ireland. You seem to assume from all your research that porn can only be bad, it can only be negative and have bad consequences and just cannot fathom how any right minded woman could accept their guy using it.
Well they exist, and seeing as porn breaks no traditional societal rules of relationships it's safe to assume it's not a problem and my whole point is why not just assume that and make sure it never becomes one.
Not a deceit, not a deception, simply never bring it up.
Cheating hurts even if the person doesn't know about it, porn is not the same at all.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (14 December 2012):
You're splitting hairs here. Lying by omission is still lying. Unless your girlfriend says "I'm OK with porn but please keep it out of my sight" then you are lying by omission. If it hurts her so much that you have to hide it and sneak around and pretend you're not doing it or you will devastate her, then you shouldn't be doing it. I know your girlfriend specifically doesn't care, but you're advising guys on the premise that their girlfriend DOES care, or at least they think she might.
If a guy also wanted to have sex with his ex on the side while dating a new girl, it's still lying/cheating to do even if she doesn't know it's happening. In fact that's the entire basis of cheating and why it is wrong. He is hiding it to protect his own right to do something he knows will hurt her. Declaring "I'm going to go have sex with someone" is a completely different situation than sneaking around behind her back. Using porn that way is the same situation.
This whole, what she doesn't know won't hurt her is extremely paternalistic. What you are saying is, "I know what's best for you and don't think you should get a say." If a woman does find out several years later that the guy has been hiding this, for years, she is probably never ever going to trust him again. If the relationship doesn't end, that is going to tarnish everything past that. I know that if I found out my partner of several years had been using it secretly behind my back I would never forgive him.
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reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (14 December 2012):
It would of been nice though if my ex-boyfriend hadn't of done it, but there's nothing we can do now. It was difficult for me to believe he didn't know it was going to upset me, that was the part that angered me. He claims he thought I knew about it but I believe he made that up after. I don't know what he was thinking when he masturbated to it, think he was desperate at the time and didn't care about what I'd want. Once he knew I didn't like it he continued to use it for a week before I began really moaning about it. If he had of said okay it was bad I'm sorry I won't do it again things could of been different.
The problem is even if you do tell them alot of men will just carry on because they enjoy it and don't see it as a problem if it's not affecting their girlfriend directly. :(
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 December 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Part of the problem lies with the woman not letting it be known near the beginning."
Thanks for your input, I completely agree with you. Most people I know don't consider it cheating or anything to be upset by. It is something that needs to be outlined early on. It wouldn't be right for a guy to hide it if he knows you don't like it, but if it's not clearly defined to a person who sees no problem with it then they're going to assume it's not a problem.
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reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (14 December 2012):
Part of the problem lies with the woman not letting it be known near the beginning. I didn't express my hatred loudly and clear at the beginning and it ended up that I could not forgive me, truth is if I had informed him how much I detested it he probably wouldn't of done it. It has always been a problem, I dis tell him I was scared of tidying his room in case I found porn, he said he hadn't got any turns out he meant magazine kind. He didn't mention the 463 gb on his media centre fixed to his 40inch hd tv screen. So that was a shock when I was enjoying being "the only one." Luckily for me I found out within the first 3 weeks of doing intimate things. That was a close call.
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