A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I have been involved with a married man for 10 years, I waited until his children were grown up so I could make demands in my lover leaning his wife, they are 17 and 19 so not kids anymore....I asked him last night for us to be a proper couple now, but he said even though he would leave his wife in a heartbeat he couldn't leave his children just yet while they was dependant on him, such as school, exams etc, I saiid I wanted him to live with me, set up home together but he said he couldn't yet but will eventually.....well I told him last night that it was over, he was upset and told me he loved me but I said it wasn't good enough......Was I being unreasonable?
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (19 June 2016):
 ..Living in a bedsit ? Why does he have to leave in a bedsit- could he not come to live with YOU ? Could you not ( should you not ! ) rent a place together ?...
What the next excuse will be, that he can't leave because he loves the water pressure in his own shower, that's just the perfect one for him ?
A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (19 June 2016):
Sorry- now that I think of it, the sentence I quoted is not Eric Fromm's ( who, anyway, says the same in a less literary language ), is Antoine St. Exupery's.
Never mind- the concept stands.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (19 June 2016):
No, female anon , we can generalize : what's life itself if not a process of desuming through experience and observation of a large number of individual instances, a general rule ?...
When the sky is full of big dark clouds , ..that's how we know it's going to rain. Of course, there always can be exceptions. Human behaviour does not respond to immutable laws like the physics law, so once in a blue moon there will be an exception. But exceptions are, well... exceptional.
Plus, I think it all, or mostly, depends from your definition of " love ".
When you say that the married man won't leave his wife because he is scared, uncertain, undecided... basically he is too chicken and too attached to his convenience and comfort to take a final stance... but he still " loves " the mistress, I wonder, is that what love looks like in your book ?
Sorry, not in mine and in many many other people's.
Eric Fromm said " Love does not consist of gazing at each other , but in looking outward together in the same direction ".
LOve is an ACTION, not a fuzzy -whoozy-nicey state of mind.
When you love somebody, you operate for her / his best interest. And you DO things, you make choices, you make things happen which favour your being able to look outward in the same direction- that of a common future , of a shared life - shared holding your head high , not skulking away in dark alleys.
The married man that stares at his mistress thinking " wow... she's so pretty.... lucky bastard, am I "- that's not love. The married man , that after a hot- and stolen- couple of hours - thinks : " Ah that was so much fun. And now... ... I have to go back to my real life, ... where I will be asked to perform family duties, to pay bills in time, to be a role model for my children, to take care of the problems needs and demands of a marriage and family... sigh ! ". That's not love, that's ego stroke and fantasy time, something akin to masturbation. He is an emotional wanker, not a man who loves.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (18 June 2016): He said he still wants to live with his children .....I think the upheaval scares him....walking out of his home and living in a bedsit somewhere....his words.....
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (18 June 2016): Some married men stay with their wives even though they love their mistress. You cannot generalize the way previous posters have been doing.You don't know anything for sure, do you? And you do not know every person and their own personal motivations, reasons, backgrounds etc? These are all unique and individual things that drive people to do or not do things. Bottom line: Everybody is different and arrive at decisions from different places and different angles according to their own personal life experiences, character, beliefs...Step into their shoes. Live their lives. Feel what they feel. Then you can say anything with certainty.So many people on advice forums think they have a crystal ball. They don't.Some married men don't leave because they are paralyzed by fear, doubt, uncertainty. Some men are over thinkers. Afraid to take the plunge or make the commitment. Even single guys can act this way. It has nothing to do with the woman in every case or his loving her or not loving her. It has everything to do with him. And his inability to move forward. His fear of change. His fear to make the jump. That is why he keeps the status quo. Plenty of guys like that too. Just saying. THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE.... You can LOVE a woman and never leave your wife. And in fact, sometimes, when a mistress does leave her married lover, this DOES open his eyes to the fact that he DID love her all along and was NOT willing to lose her and that is WHEN he LEAVES his wife. You don't know what you've got till it's gone. That happens too. That is why when you issue an ultimatum to get him OFF his ass and make a decision, it could push him towards leaving his wife. IF he truly loves his mistress. We women know some men need a push. They are lazy and comfortable and do not often have the guts to up and leave. Women can do this much more easily if the shoe was on the other foot. Men, not so much. They need a push and a shove. I can tell you of a case I know of personally where a friend had been dating her boyfriend for a couple of years. He was not committing. She left him. He came running back with a ring and proposed to her.Some guys have fairly decent marriages. It does not mean they love their wives. It means they like her and the LIFE they have. They do not love her. Or they would not be involved in a whole other relationship for years. Look at it that way. No guy who is satisfied with his wife is going to be having a relationship with another woman for years on end. A guy might go have sex with women, hits and misses etc, but not a 10 year long relationship! NO WAY! There is obviously an emotional connection here. If he was emotionally connected to his wife to begin with, no other woman would stand a chance. There would be NO opening for her. So, yes, the married man has strong feelings for the other woman. But he cannot pull the trigger. Does NOT cancel out his feelings though. LOVE does not always CONQUER ALL. Now, that is the stuff fairytales are made of and most of us little girls who grow up into wise women know that some Prince Charming's can be ours for a little while but not forever. We can be either a wife or a girlfriend. Either one. And the result is the same. So many marriages nowadays end up in divorce. So many men lead double lives. Women too on a lesser scale. People will often take the path of least resistance. And THAT is the truth.
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A
female
reader, Andie's Thoughts  +, writes (18 June 2016):
 You did the right thing 9 years and 11 months later than you should have. Well, you shouldn't have even got with a married man because you (and he) have effectively ruined someone's life. How can you justify that to yourself? I know that sounds harsh, but you need to deeply think about that and make yourself aware of the gravity of what you (and he) have done to his wife and kids - yes, you helped him betray his kids too. You've wasted 10 years of your own life where you could have been the *only* woman, a man's girlfriend/wife, but you chose to be nothing more than the *other* woman, a mistress. I know you probably didn't expect for it to go on this long, but you should have broken up with him after 6 months, a year, 2 years, 5 years, 8 years, but you waited 10. Not to mention that you shouldn't trust a man who has cheated on his wife with you, especially a long-term fling (it could never be more than a fling whilst it was an affair).Hang on; I've just thought of something.... Have you spent the last 10 years being unable to say you're in a relationship? I mean, if you introduced him to family/friends, you'd have been deceiving them, but if you'd done that, his wife could have found out, so it's unlikely he'd have taken that risk. You've spent 10 years not existing in a major part of your life because you were a secret.If this was your mother/sister/daughter/friend, what would you say to them? It's hard not to lecture someone in this situation because they don't understand how major what they've done is - I mean, your post is all about you breaking up with him, like he was your boyfriend, with no consideration for how this would affect his wife or how you (should) feel guilty. It's selfish and you'd be devastated in his wife's position, but you never thought about anyone else enough to break up with him for 10 years and it's not even about her now.OP, you did the right thing - better late than never, but you need to do some soul-searching about why you stayed this long with a man who wasn't yours to have and why you let yourself be the other woman, rather than someone's priority, for 10 long years of your life. You should have demanded to be the only one after 6 months at most - why? Any longer is just dragging it out; if he can't choose you then, he shouldn't choose you at all.His children were an excuse (for both of you) for the affair to keep going - if they ever find that out, that they were the BS reason their dad and his mistress betrayed their mother for 10 years of their lives, they will be heartbroken. *Never* use children as the excuse for something like that. You've lived in denial for 10 years about who you are, who he was, what your doing was and you need to take some time out to reflect and grow.Cut all contact with this man. Take a year or two out from any dating. Marinate in what you've been a part of and try to redeem yourself with yourself. You *should* feel very guilty and that's what you need to redeem yourself from, by regularly doing good things to help others (like volunteering) and start to heal. If you don't feel much guilt, figure out why and work on it because there's a basic level of compassion and decent that's been missing for 10 years. Maybe a therapist could help you work through why you did this to his wife and why you denied yourself a real relationship for 10 years to be with a guy who would never be yours (you knew it deep down; you don't spend 10 years being the last priority and not suspect that it will always be like that).I know this all sounds very judgemental, but you need to feel hurt about the 10 years you lost, the pain you've caused another person (his wife; her being unaware doesn't lessen the betrayal) and how to move forward. You deserve better than you've allowed yourself to have, but you also have a lot of making up to do with the universe. That may sound fishy if you don't believe in karma, but your moral compass needs to be fixed.You definitely did the right thing, but you have to stick to it and improve your life. Good luck, OP.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (18 June 2016):
The only unreasonable thing was that you stayed ten years in a clandestine relationship before getting sick and tired of your backstreet girl position. Don't tell me that you really believed , after maybe the first couple of years,... that he was really going to leave his marriage for you ??...
The kids got nothing to do with it. As shown by the large numbers of divorced dads, and, alas, also the large numbers of divorced dads that even try to weasel out of their " alternate weekends " with their kids when said weekends interfere with their personal engagements, a fishing trip or an important football game or a new hot date.
But, not wanting to be cynical at all costs, I agree obviously that there are also truly devoted fathers - and they remain truly devoted divorced fathers.
No- the problem is that , the numbers are not very encouraging , I think I remember that just about 3% of adulterous relationships end up in divorce from the first wife and marriage with the mistress, - but when they do, it does not happen after 20 years.
Men who really love their mistresses, and really want to turn a new leaf in life with them, - they just DO it, and do it soon. Because it pains THEM deeply to have to keep the love of their life in the humiliating role of a dirty little secret. They'll do their utmost to get them out from this uncomfortable position, they won't wait to have all their ducks in a row and their grandchildren in college.
Of course often they pay a big price for this, both emotionally and moneywise, but if they think the woman is worth it , they'll pay it , and as promptly as humanly possible ( hint : not ten years ).
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A
female
reader, Honeypie  +, writes (17 June 2016):
 To anon who asked:
"Isn't it very difficult for a man to walk out on his children? I mean, he could love his mistress but his love for his children is so much more deeper."
I think it IS. But if it was SO hard, how come the divorce rate is as high as it is? How come there are SO many single mom's out there? (yes, there are single dads too, but they are MARGINAL compared to single moms).
You don't leave your kids when you divorce. At least you don't HAVE to. Again, yes, you may not share a home with them any more, but you CAN still be a great dad. At a couple of kids at 17/19 are bound to move out - to college or into the world sooner rather than later - so I agree, it's a lame excuse to use your kids as the reason why you can't leave.
Because in the OP's case he has been cheating on his wife, the mother of his children since they were 7/9 - staying doesn't exactly makes him super dad... or husband.
IT's just a REALLY convenient excuse that a "mistress" can't really argue with.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2016): Why would a man feel any need to leave his wife or mistress when both women are staying with him and enabling him to have the best of both worlds? He does not NEED to make any choices. He has it all.His mistress is happily accepting any time he gives her and the circumstnaces of their relationship. His wife is happily unaware of his other woman.When push comes to shove, he will not leave his wife and family because the turmoil and expense of turning his life upside down, inside out is not worth it. So, instead of staying in an unhappy marriage - and it has to be unhappy on some levels in order for him to take on a mistress - he keeps both. Both women meet different needs. He does not want just a comfortable wife. And he does not want just an exciting mistress. He WANTS both. He WANTS it all.And yes, some men would not leave their children because they feel a strong parental responsibility to their children and family. Means he has different values from other people. Some guys take being a father very seriously. That means not bailing out on their kids and being a shadow of a father figure or a part time father at best. They realize his absence in the family home is going to cause them a lot of turmoil and angst. And he is right. This has nothing to do with the wife. And sometimes men feel a responsibility to their wife and to the commitment they made when they married her. Regardless of seeing any other woman. The piece of paper and the commitment matters even if they are not totally in the marriage. Does not matter if they are not in love with their wife and have fallen into a happily comfortable roommate situation years later, they will stay out of obligation and duty. Why rock the boat and throw away a life which is fairly comfortable and decent when they can ALSO have a mistress on the side?? Think these men are STUPID?
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (17 June 2016):
 Leaving a woman is not the same as leaving your children.
A man can leave a marriage or a woman and still be a good father to his children.
do not assume that a man will stay JUST for the kids. I've seen too many men use children as an excuse and just as many who have left a marriage for a woman but still have a very large impactful relationship with their children.
Just because a person is the other parent of a your children does not tie you to them like many women would hope.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2016): Sounds like he just used you all these years. Good thing you ended things. Man will say whatever it takes to get what they want. If he really didn't want to be with his wife he would if left her
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2016): Isn't it very difficult for a man to walk out on his children? I mean, he could love his mistress but his love for his children is so much more deeper.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2016): I don't agree with SVC.Not ALL married men leave their wives and families for the woman they love.Not every man behaves the same way and not every situation is a cookie cutter of the previous or the next.They may very well LOVE their mistress but they will NOT leave their marriages. The reasons are far too complex for anyone to know or judge.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (17 June 2016):
Basically you called him on his bluff. He's been bluffing you for 10 years...
He is never going to leave his wife for you. IF he was going to he would have done it 9 years and 6 months ago or sooner.
and yes MEN do leave their wife and family for a woman they love if they really love her. "I can't leave my kids" is a lie. trust me.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 June 2016): No, it is not unreasonable.I do believe he may love you. And he will miss you from his life. No doubt. But that is not enough for you. That is not enough for him to leave his wife and family for you. How long can you go on being the other woman? It's been 10 years. You've been more than reasonable. You've given him more than enough time to make up his mind. If you were paying attention, you would see that all along he did have his mind made up. And his decision was to stay married. Things will never change. Sorry to say. I know you love him. But love is sometimes not enough. It's not enough that he loves you. It's not enough that you love him.I understand as I am with a married man too for three years. For a time, it's a beautiful love affair. But the longer it continues, the harder it gets because you want him for yourself. Your feelings grow. The relationship progresses in your eyes. And he never leaves. This is just the way the fairytale ends for all of us. We must make the choice either to stay and accept the situation as it is or leave and find a new man. It is hard because we love this one and cannot let him go. But I think everybody in their own time reaches their own ephiphany or breaking point.
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A
male
reader, Garbo +, writes (16 June 2016):
 The only unreasonable thing here is that you waited 10 years, glorious amount of time that you could have invested in a man that would have loved you back. Still, I'm glad you dumped him and be sure you stay no contact.
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female
reader, aunt honesty  +, writes (16 June 2016):
 You knew that he was married, yet you still got with him. He is someone elses husband and father, you are just someone on the sides, you have wasted ten years of your life on empty promises. For now it is school and exams, then it will be college and partners, then it will be children's marriages and babies. There will always be something, he won't leave his wife. If you want to be the other woman then that is your choice, me personally I would want more for myself. Even if he did leave his wife now, he is a cheat so could you trust he wouldn't be doing the same behind your back?
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (16 June 2016):
Unreasonable?
I find that hard to say yes OR no to.
YOU chose to "date" a married man. You chose to give him 10 years of your life with nothing more than empty promises from him.
Now you chose to try an ultimatum and it failed, so you STOOD by your ultimatum and left. Which honestly I think you should have dome 10+ years ago, however, better late than never to realize he was not going to BE your full time partner.
A married man (or woman) will ALWAYS have some or other excuse to not leave, if they REALLY don't WANT to leave. "Your" married man used his kids as this excuse. One that he can ALWAYS dust off and use. They are still in school, they are in university, they are getting married, having their first child... ENDLESS excuses.
My advice STICK to your guns. CUT all contact and when you are good and ready to date again.... LOOK for a single guy. 3 is a crowd, and rarely a good way to have a healthy relationship.
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (16 June 2016):
 "Was I being unreasonable?"
HE's been stringing you along for 10 years... and you FINALLY figured out that he wasn't really "serious," after all.... so you've told him it's "over"??!!!! And you ask if you were being unreasonable????
The greatest tragedy of this is that you have wasted 10 years believing that this cad was not a cad. Now, you know... so you can get on with your life....
Good luck....
P.S. To most of the women in similar - or the same -circumstances; Things ain't likely to change to your advantage...
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