A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:Hello aunts. I am writing this because I really need help with a recent situation that I am just not handling well. Thanks in advance.First, some background. I'm 30 and I met my current wife two years ago in a business dinner. We flirted a bit and met at later business dinners. However, I asked her out a couple times and she refused. Only the third time she said yes and that was like 3 months after we met.We then started dating. She would not let me hug her on our first date. On the second I kissed her and she let me, but she did not kiss back until much later that night, because she said that she usually didn't kiss guys in the first date. Then she said we were probably not fit for each other and I had to beg her (and even hint that I was willing to marry her) in order for her to give me a third date. After that we moved very fast and on the ninth date we had sex and actually started the relationship. We got married one year later. While she often showed her love in multiple ways and I can tell that she loves me more each day, I have always felt I love her more than she loves me. I feel like I'm often the one chasing.However, after the marriage I started asking about her past with other men. Before marriage, I knew she had had a boyfriend that she was gonna marry and lasted 5 years. I also knew she then dated a guy for 4 years. Since we married, she revealed episodes like the following:1) She had sex with 5 other guys (one time each) while she was dating her first boyfriend (only in the later years).2) One of those 5 guys ended up being her second boyfriend. He was married (although separated at the time) and she was the one who sought out the relationship. She decided to leave her home country just because she was devastated about the ending of that relationship. On this one she also tried to cheat a couple times too.3) She dated 2 guys in the US specifically to get a way to stay in the country (I am also a foreigner so I cannot provide that). She also had sex with 2 others (she came to the US four years ago).4) She once picked up one of her classmates and brought him back to her apartment to have sex with him.All of this happened before we even met.There are other episodes, but I feel specifically bad about these four because:1) I seriously doubt that each of these 5 guys required the amount of effort I put in order to have sex with her. Why could it be so easy for other guys and so hard for me?2) One of my greatest fears in life is being cheated on. This indicates that she is perfectly capable of cheating, which I though was not the case. Also, this indicates that there was another guy who was so attractive and desirable to her that she didn't care that she was the mistress in that relationship. Would she have done that for me?3. Again, other guys got the privilege of being targeted by my wife (not the other way around) just by virtue of their birth. This makes me feel inferior.4. This is another instance of a guy having to do zero work and assuming zero risks and costs to get what it has taken me lots of costs and risks to get. How come others have had it so easily?My wife obviously knows I am uncomfortable with this (although she doesn't know to what extent). She only told me about all this because I insisted. She says that she only makes things hard for guys that she actually wants for long term because "easy come, easy go" is one of her rules in dating (meaning that the guys who get things easily have no chance of lasting). This could be a reasonable argument or be total BS, meant to hide that she is with me primarily because past attempts didn't work out. If we use a cinematic metaphor from Titanic, I always wanted to be Jack, the guy who leaves such a lasting impression that she cannot forget for the rest of her life. I never wanted to be Rose's husband (not Cal, the guy she actually married), a guy who lived his entire life without knowing his wife would much rather be with someone else.I am terribly jealous that my wife can have been this turned on by other men yet I had to earn her love in a slow process. It also makes me fearful that she can be attracted by others in the future. I don't know how to handle this. Am I being unreasonable and expecting too much of women? Is it better to pretend nothing happened and refuse to know more? Or should I look facts straight in the face and try and handle them? What can I do to get some inner peace? I want to think that if I had known this before marriage I would still have married her. But I am not 100% sure.Thanks for any advice you can provide.
View related questions:
flirt, her past, jealous, mistress Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 January 2017): Right anonymous male, not all men think like you do. We don't all feel like suckers because our wives dared to enjoy their own vaginas before we came along. Yes jealousy is natural and understandable to a point but it's absolutely not healthy. It's a toxic emotion. It's like if I wrote and told the aunts I can't get over the fact that there are people who are much richer and better looking than I in the world. That may technically be unfair and put me at a disadvantage to others, but the only advice people could reasonably give me would be to accept what I have or work hard and try to increase my wealth/better my body. I could continue to argue that I shouldn't have to that because the universe should be more fair and my feelings are a natural reaction to that, but the only person that would ultimately hurt is me and I'd rather not live my life stuck in a pity party for one thank you!
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 January 2017): I've been following this thread with interest and what I will say is all of this talk of the truth and facts is a red herring. None of this is fact, it's opinion and stating otherwise doesn't change that.Consider that my fiancé has been engaged twice. He proposed to his first fiancé after 3 weeks together. I had been with him for almost 3 years before he proposed to me. I know because I've had discussions with him, that he fell quickly for his first fiancé and it was an intense, passionate relationship. However, as these things are it was also a volatile relationship and after almost 2 years they split up.With me, it took about 4/5 months of dating before we even became official. We have great sex but it's not "ripping each other's clothes off in a taxi" style sex like he had with her. We rarely argue and we get on so well - we're a team.Now according to some of the opinions here, if I have any self-respect I should feel angry and "suckered" about the fact that he undoubtedly fell for her more quickly than he did with me. As if that means he liked or valued her more because he put a ring on her finger earlier. FYI we'd been together for about a year before this came up. But in reality? I'm not at even remotely upset. I know what we have is amazing and while it might not be as passionate, we have a deep love and acceptance of each other that you can't have with someone you fight with daily. I also believe him when he says that the previous experience taught him a lot about what he doesn't want. Why would I not? People often have to make mistakes and bad choices (for them) to realise what it is they want. I'm secure enough in myself and what we have to not worry about any of that. I'm also wise enough to know that there may be things he likes better about her than me, but that also works in reverse and as an overall package I suit him better. No-one is ever fully perfect for their partner, all we can do is try to get as close to it as possible. That is normal and perfectly ok. People who don't accept this are setting themselves up for a fall.Will it work and we'll stay together forever? I believe we will but of course I don't know for sure. No-one does. But that won't freak me out or panic me. It's just life and sometimes you've got to jump in and rely on your swimming skills (emotional intelligence and survival skills) to save you if things gets choppy.So there's my story. While it is just my opinion, it does disprove that it's a 'fact' that all people feel the same way as the OP and anonymous male. Which is good, because blaming biology or society or psychology or whatever it may be takes personal responsibility away from people and let's them wallow in the perceived injustices in the world rather than accept them. Which is honestly rather sad. I'd much rather focus my energy learning how to live a life filled with love and optimism rather than bemoan the fact the world isn't 100% fair or balanced. But again, that's just my opinion.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 January 2017): The OP's question was "Is my jealousy justified?"
Are you addressing that issue? All I hear is angry ranting because you don't like the implications of admitting the truth about this.
The truth is that the OP's feelings make perfect sense by any measure of basic logic. The truth is that this is being spurred by self-respect at least as much as insecurity.
The truth does not become false whenever you don't like the implications or it supports the wrong side.
Not every situation has a nice clear right & wrong person. I am arguing a far leaning position here because nobody else is even trying to being fair to the OP.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 January 2017): I'm not going to keep arguing with you male anon, as it's clear you really are far more concerned about blame and 'being right' than you are interested in helping the OP in any way. But I will leave you with this:Essentially, what you are trying to say is that women should only have sex under circumstances in which YOU (read: MEN) are comfortable with. Otherwise, they deserve to be shamed and shunned by men for not being 'worthy' enough. That will NEVER happen. Unluckily for you, women have agency over their own bodies and actions and they will have sex with willing and available men as and when they feel like it. You might not like it, but we sure do! ;)This situation has nothing to do with self respect and everything to do with your dealthly fear that you don't measure up to the past men. As SVC said, it's all about insecurity. The fact a woman can give and get sex so easily terrifies men like you because deep down you fear she could do so at any moment and thus crush your heart. So you blame and shame women in an attempt to 'level the playing field'. But that won't work, because really the issue is you and the fact that deep down, you don't believe you have what it takes to attract a woman sexually. Giving another man sex earlier than you validates that belief and so you lash out and blame the woman in an attempt to control her. What you fail to accept is that you can't control someone else. Nor can you 100% guarantee you won't get hurt. Dating is a risk and there is no way to mitigate that risk fully.Oh and as for your cow analogy, you still don't get it! Firstly, sex is not the same as a monetary transaction but I'll let that slide for now. If a person decides they no longer wish to give away something of value WHICH THEY OWN (milk/their body) for free, that is their choice and is not a slight against anyone else. It just means their own opinion on the situation has changed. For example, your cow owner might have initially thought handing out milk to the neighbours was a charitable act, but soon realised that none of the neighbours were treating her very charitably in return. So she decides to stop giving them the milk for free and vows to only give it to people who truly deserve and appreciate it from now on. By your reasoning, any new neighbours have the right to be mad at her for that because it makes them feel like she liked the others more?! So even though she's chosen the new neighbour as the ONLY one worthy of getting the milk for the rest of her life, he'd still rather moan about the fact other people got to try the milk first? Even though she didn't know he existed then, she was still supposed to have saved it for him? Oh please!I know I'll never convince you of this male anon, but I'll also sleep happily tonight knowing that this ridiculous patriarchy you dream of in which women remain pure and chaste until given permission by the right man to act otherwise (after which they become sex-positive vixens of course) is exactly that - a pipe dream.
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (4 January 2017):
 Wouldn't it be incumbent on Joe to ask the neighbor about the cow's history before he bought the cow?
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (4 January 2017): I don't have a perfect solution. There isn't one. But why does that give you license to ignore the facts and blame on the wrong side entirely? Don't give you neighbor Joe free milk if you want to sell him your expensive cow. Sure, that makes sense. But if Joe buys the cow, and then later finds out you used to give all the other neighbors milk for free before he moved in? Don't blame Joe for being unhappy about that. Don't blame him for coming away feeling that you liked him less. Don't blame him for feeling a little but SUCKERED.You didn't technically owe Joe free milk. But maybe you should have disclosed your past habits of free milk-giving before he paid you years of his income for that cow. Let him go into the decision knowing the whole story. Be a decent human being.Do you call it insecurity that he is bothered by the truth? That is his SELF-RESPECT talking !And we are talking about the OP's WIFE here, not just a neighbor. She misled him, he reacted like a normal healthy person would, and now you are blaming him for making this a problem. I am not presenting a good solution. I am calling you out for blaming the wrong side entirely.
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (4 January 2017):
Actually Male Anon, Jealousy is an emotion rooted totally in INSECURITY. THE OP is insecure and feels that his wife may cheat on him.
OP it's totally possible that the reason she did not sleep with you earlier is that she valued you and wished to engage in a real relationship with you rather than just casual sex.
Women are taught that men value us more if we make them work for our attentions. I was raised with the whole notion of "why buy the cow when the milk is free" which goes against the sexual revolution issues of the 70s.
Prior to the birth control pill, women had a much higher risk of getting pregnant and not having legal abortions available to them so they remained chaste mostly to prevent the whole "unwed mother" issue. Once science was able to even the playing field (accurately prevent pregnancy) and women were able to engage in casual sex like men always have without consequences, men (in general) did not respond well. There is a huge double standard.
In addition, I know you are truly suffering but it's much like hitting yourself in the face. You married her and THEN you asked her about her sexual past. This is shutting the barn door after the animals escaped. Useless.
IF you had asked her before the marriage what do you think would have happened? IF you would have ended the relationship, then why not consider a divorce now?
Or would you have stayed and figured out how to make it work because you love her?
However your jealousy over things in the past that you made her discuss after the fact (the marriage) seems unreasonable to me.
...............................
A
female
reader, jls022  +, writes (4 January 2017):
Male anon what does meeting halfway look like though? A person can't change their past so the only options the sufferer has are to either find a way to accept it, or find someone else. Most people presume the OP wants to stay in this marriage so adjusting his thinking is the route most people choose to advise on. If you have any other solutions then please let us hear them...
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 January 2017): No, I get annoyed because these posts are always more interested in being right than moving forwards. Realistically, the only options for this problem are accept it or leave. Beating your partner up for failing to meet a set of standards they didn't even know they were being held to is NOT a long term option for a healthy relationship. So you can continue telling these posters that their feelings are normal and it's all the woman's fault, but it doesn't actually get them anywhere.
In my opinion, there are no 'sides' here. Women have this issue as well as men and my advice to them is the same - going into any relationship with expectations of how someone 'should' have behaved sexually is setting yourself up for disappointment. Sex is a personal, organic thing to which there is no one size fits all approach. So sufferers of this type of jealousy can either try to re-frame their thinking and get over the crippling pain it causes them, or they can continue to believe they are right and be miserable for eternity.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (4 January 2017): How about a solution that at least makes some effort to be fair to both sides?
The solution coming from one side here is to basically slam the door in the OP's face. "Your understandable feelings cause trouble, so therefore the aren't understandable. You are the whole problem. You feel this way for wrong reasons."
How about recognizing his feelings for what they are: normal. Healthy. (Yes I said healthy. They come from his sense of self-respect.) The problem is not him, it is a bad mesh between the two of them.
Your side shows so little interest in meeting halfway and then you get furious when anyone pipes up to defend the other side.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 January 2017): "You cannot raise the standards for some people over others and then expect it not to breed frustration, anger, and insecurity.
The OP is not the problem here. She is."
So what do you expect his wife to do about it? Go back in time and make other guys wait longer? Go back and have sex with the OP sooner than she was comfortable with? Allow her husband to hold his grievance over her head forever? Leave him? What? If she's the problem, what now?
These damned retro-jealousy and past lovers posts always attract the same bitter, ranting comments stating that it's all the women's fault, but where's the practical advice? How does that help the OP?
It comes down to this: you can bleat on about how judging a woman's past is justified because it's based on evolution/ a moral issue/ promiscuity is the work of evil feminists/ because you said so until the cows come home, but it won't stop women having pasts and it won't change the fact that you will not - now or ever - be able to control another person's sexuality. You may wish it but you'll never make it so.
OP check out retroactivejealousy.com. It can help you overcome negative thoughts around a partner's past so it may help.
...............................
A
female
reader, jls022 +, writes (4 January 2017):
So basically you begged, pleaded and badgered her until she dated you and now you're annoyed that not all guys had to do that to get her?
I'll be brutally honest with you OP, I don't think there was much of an initial attraction there with your wife but your persistence paid off and she eventually grew to desire and love you after a longer time. I'd guess from your post that you suspect that too and that's what really upsets you. While I do get that to a certain degree, I also don't feel like you can blame your wife for that. You were the one that chose to pursue her so determinedly despite her refusals and despite feeling like you were the more interested party. Then you went digging and found evidence that backs up those feelings and now you're mad at her?
Honestly, we hear a lot from men and women upset about the fact that their partners have desired others more than them at some point. It is upsetting but it's also life. Sometimes those we have the most chemistry with are not those best suited to us as long-term partners. Sometimes if we give a person a chance it can slowly grow into a deeper love than we ever thought possible.
Basing everything on how quickly she gave you sex means you are missing the bigger picture. She chose them for one night, she chose you for life. If you really can't see how you get the better deal here then you are free to leave her and find someone you believe desires you more. But please remember that it's often friction in a relationship that causes great chemistry and that can get very old very quickly. Definitely a case of be careful what you wish for.
PS - male anon 1, or perhaps she has since realised that people are using her for free rides and she's sick of footing the bill, so she decides to set stronger boundaries for herself. But by your reasoning that's not allowed because people aren't allowed to decide a situation/behaviour is no longer working for them and change it as that's unfair to anyone else who wanted to gain from that behaviour in the future. Apparently.
PS - male anon 2, so you're basically saying that because I had a couple of one night stands at uni, I no longer have the right to ask other men to wait longer for sex? Even though with age I've come to realise that casual sex is not for me? To quote my lovely mother, what a load of old codswallop!! I will have sex when I desire sex (partner willing of course). If I feel ready within one week with one man and one month with another then so be it. Im not going to force myself to do it when I don't feel comfortable out of a fictional sense of duty. And if anyone tried to dictate when I 'should' share MY body with them? Well they'd get no sex at all - ever!
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (3 January 2017): You cannot raise the standards for some people over others and then expect it not to breed frustration, anger, and insecurity.
The OP is not the problem here. She is.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (3 January 2017): I agree with the previous posters, its exactly right that what happened before is the past. You won her heart and should rather focus on the here and now together than wonder about her past and those that shaped who she became.
Sounds like you both love each other. Focus on that.
She set standards with you because YOU mattered. There is no competition. You're the one. You got married. Trust in your love.
Happy New Year and have a wonderful life with YOUR MRS :)
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (3 January 2017): Your wife is in high school and she has a car. One day she agrees to give you a ride home if you give her gas money. It seems like a decent deal.
The you find out that she was giving hot guys rides last week for nothing. No gas money. In fact she gave some of them money when they asked.
Now you are frustrated.
You technically have no right to be frustrated because you agreed to your deal at the time. But your frustration is completely understandable. What you learned has also made you lose some respect for her. She is not treating you very well compared to her other friends.
...............................
A
male
reader, Serpico +, writes (3 January 2017):
She's making you pay for something she gave away for almost free elsewhere. This is not your fault.
That you had to beg her to go out with you absolutely ensured that she has no respect for you. You need to display abundance to women, not desperation. This one is your fault.
I dont see this going anywhere good.
...............................
A
male
reader, Garbo +, writes (2 January 2017):
 To answer your question in the title: No, your jealousy is not justified because everything that you cite about her that bothers you has nothing to do with you. Not one of those acts she did involve you nor were they done by her in view of you, because you simply were not in her picture at the time. You should, therefore, note that her behavior is totally different with you in the picture, that she is a changed person such that she loves you, and increasingly so. So, however she is now, which is unlikely of how she was, it is because of you.
Most of our past experiences, however they are, often shape how we act in presence of new opportunities. Had you been a man of no qualities and no value to her, you'd be one of those 5 guys you sob about. Is that who you'd rather be?
If I was to look for any problematic stuff in your story it would be about her looking for a man to get a staying visa. But that seems to bother you least, nor is it the focus of what you are asking our opinion on. As so, feel great that you are the man she loves, and know that love does not measure how much effort you put in to create it and maintain it... love does not keep such records.
...............................
A
female
reader, singinbluebird +, writes (2 January 2017):
 Look, the real answer here is you chased the girl, you GOT her, she said yes and married you.
Everything else is irrelevant. If you see everyday that she loves YOU more and more, that is only proof that none of the other guys matter. They arent holding her in their arms and making love to her, YOU are. Cherish that.
Dont let your insecurities take over. Some men work harder to get some girls but those men are the hardest for us to forget. Just know that because of what you did, you won her and she chosed you.
End of story. Leave the past and focus on your future. If you want kids and want live a good life, start focusing on those goals. Good luck
...............................
|
