A
male
age
22-25,
anonymous
writes:Me and my girlfriend have been together for just under 2 years but she’s letting her friends stick their noses into our relationship and it’s really starting to annoy me. I’m also beginning to think I’m being controlled and manipulated. Am I just over-thinking or are the signs there?She has always been close to her 5 best friends, I can’t ever deny that. They are inseparable a lot of the time. But whenever we have an argument or even a slight disagreement, she has to go and tell them the ins and outs of it all. Usually they get involved and always tell me I’m in the wrong or guilt trip me into letting her get her own way. I know it’s not unusual for girls to spill everything to their friends when they’ve had rows with their boyfriends but the thing is we don’t really row that much. We only have disagreements that can easily be sorted without arguing. Some of the arguments are over such petty things that don't even require any input from anyone else. I feel like nothing is private in our relationship anymore. She’s even talked to them about intimate problems in our relationship.Like for example a couple of months ago I was having trouble keeping an erection when we had sex. It was a problem that went on for a few weeks (Thankfully I’m Ok now so it must’ve just been a blip) and I could tell she was getting understandably frustrated. But she took it upon herself to go and tell her friends all about it. When I found out I felt so embarrassed and angry that she’d gone and talked about something so intimate to her friends. Her argument was that she tells her friends everything and that they all took it seriously but she still had no right to tell them personal stuff about me without even asking me first surely? When we do have arguments it’s usually about money. For example she hates the fact that I gamble. But I only do it in moderation, for a bit of fun. I limit myself to two £5 football accumulators a month, so £10 in total. If I win, happy days. If not, then it’s no huge loss. All it is, is a bit of fun at the end of the day. But she says I’m being reckless and just throwing away good money. The other month I placed a bet and didn’t win and she made me feel so bad about it. Literally she wouldn’t talk to me for ages and tried to make me feel so guilty. But I'm a saver at heart and don't really spend anymore of my money on myself whereas she is forever blowing her hard earned cash on beauty products , make-up and clothes, a lot of which she’s never even used. For example there’s a £35.00 foundation in my bedroom that she bought one day and has just left there collecting dust. It’s complete and utter double standards and is one of many things that makes me think I’m being controlled and manipulated.She really wants us to move into our own flat as well. I’d absolutely love to fly the nest but the simple truth is we can’t afford it. We're both only 20 and work minimum wage jobs and could never in a million years afford to pay rent as well as things like council tax, utilities etc. I've only just started my job as well and am on a probation period. Along with my job I’m on a course studying for relevant qualifications that would help me start a career in the construction industry so I’m hoping within a year or so I’ll be able to earn more money, but my girlfriend wants us to move in together now. Unsurprisingly her friends are getting involved and one of them even said that if I loved her I’d find a way to make it work and would do anything to make her happy. Deep down my girlfriend knows there’s no logical way for us to get a flat together right now (although she’d never admit it) but she keeps going on about it and expects me to basically magic extra money out of thin air, or more likely ask my parents for a loan.She’s also told me how I should propose to her if we decide we want to get married and even showed me the only style of ring she’d ever accept if I did. Her and her friends have said that if after 3 years I haven’t proposed then it’s normal for girls to dump their boyfriends because it proves they’re not committed. Surely that’s not true, right? She is my first ever girlfriend so to be honest I’m still learning about how things work in relationships. I really hate that I feel like I have to vent to someone about it because I do love her and want this to work but I feel like she rules the roost in our relationship. Everything has to go her way and if it doesn’t then she goes crying to her friends who all gang up on me and guilt trip me into giving her what she wants. As much as I want to say I can stand up for myself, I've never been a very confident person so my resolve always breaks in the end. Part of me feels like telling her she needs to get her friends to butt out of our relationship but it will probably only cause arguments and we'll end up in the same cycle.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (29 November 2021): This is 100% manipulation down to a tee. I'd even describe it as gaslighting. She knows damn well she can use her friends to back her up and wrap you round her little finger to get what she wants. Her friends would clearly do the same thing too with their partner(s). If they weren't then surely one or more of them would speak out and tell your girlfriend they shouldn't be getting involved.
You need to be really careful with this girl. It sounds like she's trying to ground you down over time and to a point where you'll just always give in to her demands. I honestly cannot believe she'd just go and blab to her friends about those personal issues you had in the bedroom like it was nothing. It shows a complete and utter lack of respect for you. Who cares if they took it seriously or if she was getting frustrated by it? Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and you'd blabbed to your mates about a personal problem she had in the bedroom? You'd be seen as scum of the earth by most females.
You really need to talk to her about this as it's totally unfair. Don't be argumentative, be assertive. Tell her again that talking about YOUR personal problems to her friends is completely out of order. Tell her again that moving in together now is not plausible. DO NOT ask your parents for a loan to help either, no matter how much she tries to guilt trip you. Make it clear to her that you're not going to put up with it.
There is no time limit for anyone to have to get engaged either. That's complete and utter rubbish and quite laughable really. I actually feel really angry for you. Who do these girls think they are honestly? I'm guessing they are the same age as you or similar so early twenties? How can anyone in their early twenties claim to be an expert on relationships and say that not getting engaged within 3 years means you're not devoted to someone? Most people don't get married until their late twenties/early thirties at the earliest even if they get together in their teens, so please, PLEASE don't feel under any pressure to get engaged just for the sake of it and don't let them pressure you into it.
A
female
reader, Honeypie  +, writes (28 November 2021):
 I think she has so little life/relationship experience that she doesn't trust herself to "know" what to do and how to handle things that pop up, so she goes to her friends for advice.
I think for a 20-year-old it's not uncommon.
However, to involve her friends and then have THEM stand up for her with you, is not OK.
It IS manipulation, like telling on a sibling to your parents. It's not totally intentionally manipulation but she knows that it works, so she keeps doing it.
Moving in together would be "cool" but if it isn't DOABLE then it isn't DOABLE. It isn't about how much you love her, it's about being realistic.
I think you should tell her that you would prefer she TALK with you when you two have issues because, in the end, it's the two of you who have to sort it out. NOT her friends. You are not dating THOSE 5 girls, you are dating her. So THEIR opinion DOESN'T matter to you, HER opinion does. And your own.
What YOU spend your money on, is YOUR business, not hers. While most people would say 10 a month on gambling isn't that much, it can change. And maybe she worries that you will gamble your money away and then can't help pay the rent and bills (for when you live together). And it's a realistic fear. People who gamble often have a hard time setting limits for themselves. It can become addictive. Yet, for NOW, your income is none of her business. Nor is it any of her friends' business.
You need to tell her how uncomfortable it is that she shares intimate details with her friends. And how damaging it is for the relationship that she makes her friends the "judge and jury" of YOUR relationship.
She might mature in time, she might not.
"Part of me feels like telling her she needs to get her friends to butt out of our relationship but it will probably only cause arguments and we'll end up in the same cycle."
Take that argument. Suck it up and tell her. You shouldn't walk around on eggshells here.
And to Kofcalifornia - no, people don't know after 6 months if they want to marry someone. They DEFINITELY should take their time to figure it out. Especially at age 20! I know that in the US people get married fast, but they also get divorced fast and what is the point in that?
OP, take your time. And if your GF continues to not respect that some things are JUST between you and her, maybe you need to decide if this is the girl for you, long term.
You both have some growing up to do, You need to work on being a bit more assertive (not bossy) but TRUST that you know what you want. You don't NEED her friends to TELL you what you want and need. And SHE needs to respect that. And trust in herself more.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (28 November 2021): It sounds to me like your girlfriend and her friends are bullying you.
It also sounds to me like they are all in a kind of mindset that I only really found out about recently and which has become much more common these days, because the way the economy and the housing market is has made it much harder for young people: this is a kind of mindset that is promoted by women like Ana Bey and has it's origins in a little, quick to read book that may be tricky to get but which is called 'Shanghai Girls'. In both cases, the idea is to 'level up' by marrying up and that women have unequal opportunities compared with men - and this is actually true and is a fact that I don't dispute - and so they are entitled automatically to expect the man to make life easier for them (which I don't really agree with, at least not in the way that it's presented by Ana Bey and Shanghai Girls). In Shanghai Girls, the idea is to get a 'starter boyfriend' to manipulate into paying for everything and buying 'hard cash' items that have a good re-sale value - like an expensive wedding ring, designer handbags, an apartment, a car etc. It doesn't matter if the starter boyfriend doesn't come up with all of these things, the point is that he is the one that the young woman 'starts' with - then takes whatever she can and runs to the next person to help her to the next stage of wealth.
Within this, she makes a point of never 'lowering her standards' - this would mean, for example, that she will make a point sometimes of buying expensive items (like Foundation for £35) just to show him what she expects.
It can also mean (and I am pretty sure that someone I know has done this) that she can manimpulate the starter boyfriend to help her to get a foot in the door on the property ladder; if he can't afford to buy her an apartment straight out then get him to come up with a deposit somehow, and a joint mortgage, whilst she improves her own career, get her name on the deeds and on the mortgage, then after a year or so this all gets 'renegotiated' - he gets accused of battery or something similar, he either has to move out and she takes over the mortgage or they sell and she argues for a share. If they're married by then, she will probably arm herself with a good solicitor and fight like hell to get a good share of things, regardless of what was paid in.
Your girlfriend may not sound as extreme as what I'm portraying here, but she's currently 'arming' herself with the equivalent of what could be something like a legal team, further down the line, if she doesn't get the ring, the house etc.
The suff about proposing in 3 years is ridiculous.
By the way, I DO think - and this is factually proven in many ways - that women DO experience inequality, and I do think that the fair men out there should be aware of that and try to help in whatever way they can to make the world fairer. I do NOT think that this entitles women to feel justified in manipulating and bullying men to 'level up' - and yet countless women do this, sometimes going on to achieve enormous wealth.
The fact that your girlfriend has NO respect for your boundaries pretty much says it all. I know you care for her, but you are only 20 years old, very articulate, very giving and patient, and I really think you should take your time, stand up to her if you can be bothered to, educate yourself about what some - not ALL - women are like these days, and move on to find someone nicer, with more of a sense of strong human decency. It will only get worse if you don't
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A
male
reader, Kofcalifornia +, writes (27 November 2021):
A man should know within 6 months if he wants to marry a woman. If you dont feel you want to its because you shouldnt. Its very obvious thatvyou are being manipulated but you are just afraid of losing her because she is the only girlfriend you ever had. Dont worry you can find plenty of women to treat you badly and take advantage of you. Have some dignity and self respect cut off all comunication with her immediately. Avoid her and her friends as if they all had covid.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 November 2021): You need to talk her into this, am sure there are things she`d keep as her secrets
But ur relationship seem publicized
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A
male
reader, kenny +, writes (26 November 2021):
 I think that you have got to start as you mean to go on. I think that you have got to broach this with her, otherwise you are going to be continuing this relationship with all and sundry knowing your personal business.
I agree its good to have friends, people to go to in a time of need, people to have a laugh and share good times with, and to share problems with if need be. But in relationships there are just some things that should remain between the two of you.
When she tell's her friends about the in's and out's of your relationship of course they all know stuff about you that you want kept a secret, but also do those five friends then tell more of their friends, then they tell there friends, then goes on social media, then all of a sudden its broadcast to a much wider circle than just her 5 friends.
I would like to know how she would react if she had a personal issue that she wanted to be kept between the two of you, and you went and told a couple of your friends down the pub one evening?. I'm guessing that she would find this rude and disrespectful.
As i said some things between couples should stay between couples, and i think that you have got to broach this with her. It could also be that she is still only 20, and as she matures into the early to mid 20's maybe she might stop doing this.
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