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female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:This is a general question which I'm sure will have varied opinions but I'm asking because of situations I've been in which I just don't know how I could have prevented. I'm going to use the classic girl / boy situation because it seems the most common. Friends with benefits rarely works. Certainly not for me and I've learnt that the hard way. But it seems it rarely works for girls from reading posts on here. However refraining from sex until you are in a committed relationship just isn't the way most people live these days. In fact I wouldn't want to wait, I'd want to know what I was getting! It seems to me when you first start seeing a guy, no matter how long you've known them, taking it to the next level can mean very different things. For girls it usually means things are progressing towards a relationship and for boys it often (not always) means they're happily getting sex without having to commit in what they see as a FWB situation. My question is this...girls (me) can't sleep with someone without having feelings, so when it turns out not to mean anything to the guy we're upset. How is it possible to know what ur getting into unless you have that conversation before sex which, let's face it, in this day and age rarely happens. I would assume that dating or sleeping with someone is leading to a relationship unless you have both agreed it's only sex but it seems that it's now the other way around! I also think the guys that want FWB are generally seen as heartless and general advice is to walk away from them with your head held high and don't look back. But one of the guys I've been in this situation with was a good friend. Surely walking away means we are just discarding every man we connect with that doesn't work out romantically? It's so confusing. What should I do when I meet a man? Do I risk taking things to the next level, getting hurt then having to walk away from them completely? Or not get involved at all until I'm 100% certain of what they want? I want a relationship that evolves naturally but how do I protect myself from ending up unwillingly in a FWB situation? Please don't say to talk things over first or wait til your in a relationship - that's not how things work anymore and you would scare most people off by being too intense. Reply to this Question
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female
reader, Honeypie  +, writes (5 June 2014):
 I think a LOT of this drama can be avoided by ASKING the right questions and asking EARLY on.
Like WHAT are you looking for - a relationship or something casual?
You might run into guys who say one thing but mean another, as in... they SAY they want a relationship but honestly all they want is a FWB or something less "demanding". So if he says he wants a relationship then GO with that assumption. And TAKE it slow. GET to know the guy before sex. It doesn't matter WHAT age you are, I think it's the smart thing to do. What if he then runs out to be the lamest lover ever? Well, it's not like you are STUCK with a BF. If you aren't compatible in bed no one is telling you to stick it out.
Waiting til you are SURE you want to be with a guy and HE wants to be with you, I think just makes sense. If you jump his bones the first night because he gets you hot and you get him hot, can be a mistake, because it changes the focus from getting to know the person to sex - let's just have sex..
Have some standards of WHAT you want from a guy.
I get the whole "test drive thing", but you can wait a month or 2 (some wait longer, some don't) to see if there is more then just lust and physical attraction.
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reader, BrownWolf  +, writes (5 June 2014):
 When you use your body to pleasure someone you are not in a relationship with, how are you not being used??? No one is using you, as you have already offered up yourself.You said “Certainly not for me and I've learnt that the hard way.” I do not think you have learnt anything if you are planning on doing it again.
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reader, Daisy_Daisy +, writes (5 June 2014):
 "Please don't say to talk things over first or wait til your in a relationship - that's not how things work anymore and you would scare most people off by being too intense." - not true, OP.
I've had frank talks with people on the first date, who've been just as eager to find out what I am looking for. It's not intense, it's just having an honest chat. We're both in our thirties, not our twenties or teens. It's not inappropriate to discuss these things. People don't want to waste each others time.
If you are adamant that you won't verbalise what you are looking for, then watch out for the clues (you've got lots of good advice below so I won't repeat it). Just watch out for people who 'future fake', i.e. talk about grand plans for the future when you've only know them for a hot minute - they are not being honest with themselves or you. With those ones, you have to take it slow and see whether their actions match their words.
A personal example of a sucessfully avoided FWB situation: first date and he said he was single for 2 months, talked about the ex too much (clearly still attached to her somewhat), invited himself along to my holiday planned for September (!), talked of a relationship "without rules" and then suggested a "special dinner" at his house for the second date. There wasn't a second date, and I was honest with him about why - no hard feelings on either side.
Good luck, and I hope you open up to the idea of being able to communicate more with the men you date.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 June 2014): Is this a real question? You're telling people what advice to give so why ask? If you don't want fwb, discuss ahead of time what type of relationship he is looking for and don't have sex until you're a gf period. Things work the way you allow and want them to work. You can still get hurt and be lied to but you will be less likely to and you won't be a fwb. Otherwise you can hop into bed whenever you feel like it without knowing at all what the relationship is and deal with the hurt you may feel later, after the umpteenth failed sex & whatever it was relationship. Whatever modern society says about sexual freedom and so on, you are still the one who decides what you want to do and what is right for you.
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reader, llifton +, writes (5 June 2014):
 Apparently I didn't read your last two sentences before I posted my first reply. What do you mean that's not how things work anymore? They work like that all the time. Most women I know wait for sex until they are committed. The ones I know who don't, wind up getting used and wonder why. It makes sense to me to wait. What's the hurry?
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reader, llifton +, writes (5 June 2014):
I'd say your best bet is to wait until you are in a relationship to have sex. Date and take the time to get to know each other and once that formal commitment is made, then sleep together. I know you said you want to know what you're getting, but truthfully, I think it's the only sure-fire way to know a guy actually likes you before you sleep with them. Otherwise, you'll probably just wind up being a fwb.
Why buy the cow when the milk is free?
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reader, CindyCares  +, writes (5 June 2014):
 Assuming is a risky business, OP. Never assume anything - check first. Also, your assumption that just for the fact of sleeping with someone, this per se "entitles " you to get a relationship pretty soon, as a natural development, is not in line with " nowadays " , it had already begun being outdated and naive way back then when this Aunt was a frisky teenager moving her very first steps into the dating arena, many years ago.
Freedom always comes with responsability. Women have attained ( a measure of ) sexual freedom. They do not have to be married or engaged to have sex, they can protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies and STDs, they can take the initiative, they , at least in the Western world, do not risk social ostracism, or their family, their job, their life for having sex when they want- they can get what they need sexually. I'd say that befalls on them to also make sure that they get what they want emotionally, and it's up to them to do their homework about it. They can't just assume that just because they allow men access to their bodies, said men would be necessarily so enthralled / intrigued to want them as their steady companions, just based on sexual chemistry. Sex is not such a rare convenience nowadays that will grant you automatic loyalty and attachment. They have to like you and want you as a person too,- and they have to be available for a relationship, to begin with.
In this context, assuming does not lead to anything- for all you know, they are assuming too, that you two are adults freely pursuing fun and pleasure , having good times together into which nobody forced you , so if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Of course it's not that from a few casual dates, and / or casual encounters, both people cannot ever get attached, want more and take it to another level, - that happens too, obviously. But, it's a gamble. If you can just relax and go with the flow and see what happens , without too many anxieties and bellyaches, or regrets if things do not pan out, that's great. But if you do want a relationship, and want a safe bet, then no, do not assume, you'll be disappointed more often than not.
Don't say , wait to be sure you ARE in a relationship before having sex ? Well, I will have to say it, otherwise how can you be ( relatively ) sure you are getting what you want ? It DOES work this way nowadays too... for people who are serious and mean business about their love life. Sure, many people would be scared off or turned off by your " intensity "- it's precisely the same people who do not like you enough to wait a reasonable time for you to feel comfortable with them, and / or who do not want a relationship but just instant gratification, so they do you a favour, they screen themselves out and save you time and trouble.
I must say that I don't dismiss the other method, of just following your heart and instincts, just dive in.. and hope for the best . I always say " Fortuna audaces juvat "- luck assists those who can dare ". BUT, it only works if you are the kind of person that can stay cool headed, not make heavy emotional investments right off the bat but instead "pace " yourself emotionally , and also walk away promptly , with no regrets no bitterness no sense of failure, if you see things do not look promising and are not turning out the way you want them.
But if you are the type who gets hurt easily, then no, go the old fashioned way : wait. Observe. Let them prove themselves to you, let their actions speak not their words. Common sense, and setting your own standards, never goes out of fashion and it's very helpful even nowadays.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 June 2014): Short answer: the only person in a FWB who can get used is the person who goes into it hoping/wanting there to be more to it. A true FWB will NEVER have anything more possible.
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reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (5 June 2014):
 Here's the "key" to it all.... right here in your submittal: "... in this day and age rarely happens. I would assume that dating or sleeping with someone is leading to a relationship unless you have both agreed it's only sex but it seems that it's now the other way around!"
HAVE THAT CONVERSATION!!!!!! Don't ASSUME that you and he are "on the same page" regarding this matter.... since guys are notorious for claiming not to know WHICH page they are on..... AND, your putting out for him simply clouds his thinking!!!!!!
Good luck....
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 June 2014): No, OP, dating and sleeping with someone is just that, dating and sex. It means nothing more profound than that. It can be two people who are interested in a relationship and one decides the other is not one they want to continue with.
OP you can end a casual sex thing with a friend without walking away from the friendship you know. That's the whole point of it being casual, it can be finished at any time.
"that's not how things work anymore and you would scare most people off by being too intense."
You need to date more mature men then because dating works any you want it to. I'd have no problem waiting a while for sex until the woman feels I'm serious enough about her. You're wrong if you think you need to have sex to date. You're more likely to get used for sex is what happens there.
OP date for you, date how you want things to go. If you want to have fun and sex, go for it.
If you don't want to just have casual sex ever then only have it in relationships, it's really not rocket science.
Dating is just casual sex at the start every time unless stated otherwise, now you're not asking about not getting used that's a different kettle of fish and you're fine with having sex with a guy you're only dating.
The solution to your issue is simple, date, shag do whatever and when you start to develop feelings for a guy just have the talk.
There's no way of knowing what a guy's plans are at the start because as you know a guy could be interested in a relationship but then realise he doesn't think you're relationship material but are a pretty awesome lay so he wants to keep sticking it in you.
You know you talk about the way things work, yet somehow think you have to have sex with a guy as part of the normal dating process. Doesn't pop into your head at all that telling a guy early you only sleep with guys once you've gotten to know them well enough or are in a relationship with them is literally the best way to weed out the guys who are only in it for a casual thing.
You can't always have your cake and eat it, OP, if you dismiss the best ways of gauging these things because of some kind of dating code you think exists then you'll just have to keep on going and hope.
Personally I never really cared, serious relationships were never a goal for me. My goal was to date and see what happens, that to me is the natural progression. So I can have sex, all that stuff, early enough or not at all, for me it's about the getting to know the pretty woman I'm interested in. I don't find it off putting for a woman to tell me she only has sex in relationships, I respect that and respect a woman who wants to protect herself. I also don't care if they want to mainly have sex because I don't mind casual sex flings.
The only important thing for me is that when I know what I want, whether it's next level or just to keep having sex and fun, that I have the talk and we let each other know where we stand.
You see, OP I date for me, what I want. I don't care about some bullshit about it being the way things are. I want someone who thinks about the world the same way I do, if a woman tells me early that she doesn't do casual sex relationships then I know her goals from the start and if they don't match I can tell her right then and there.
For some reason you seem to think that would be a turn off, it's not, it's just that if our goals didn't match then I'd be gone and wouldn't waste your time. You would not have had a better chance of me changing my mind either if you spent months fucking and sucking me off, so you're better off not wasting your time.
You don't have to outright say it either, OP. You can just keep sex out of the equation by dating publicly only for the first little while and see how into you as a woman he is. It's not hard to do unless you're just so randy you need dick when you date. Nothing wrong with that at all but you say you want to know these things early.
There are also the classic ones: just out of a relationship (rebound guys are very unlikely to emotionally available), never wants proper dates that are public (dating that are all about getting together somewhere private are about the sex mainly, and they tend to develop into that too)
OP you're a person it sounds like to me that wants things her way, wants get her hole filled while dating but also want to know the guy's intentions without going to trouble of finding out because apparently the guys you go for can't handle a mature conversation with a woman who knows what she wants.
Then again I could be wrong and you don't mind, you just want a early warning signal. There are none really, because a guy can change his mind even if he was initially interested in dating for a relationship.
Just have to do what we all do and find out as things go.
But remember one thing, OP, sleeping with a guy while dating is not necessary to bag him for a serious relationship, love comes from the person not the pussy. I've never once fallen for or wanted a serious relationship with a woman based on sex. In fact it's more the case that I decided it wasn't a good idea because they were irredeemably crap at it.
You see? There are no rules. You date according to your goals. You don't want casual sex? Don't start a relationship with a lot of casual sex.
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reader, CMMP +, writes (5 June 2014):
You can feel free to ask a guy what he's looking for early on. Many will tell you the truth and St the same time it's a chance for you to tell them what you're looking for.
If you're on different pages from the beginning, it can save you time and heartache to know that.
After that, make him work for it. If getting sex from you is as easy as taking you out and getting you a little tipsy, that's going to set the tone for your "relationship". If you wait until you both have a good idea that you like each other (as opposed to simply being attracted), and if his actions back up his words, then sex is a little more appropriate for someone looking for a long term relationship.
I think 3 months is just a number someone picked out of the hat and certainly doesn't apply to all people. Where I live it's just not realistic for most people. It's just as likely to scare someone away. That being said, anything less than a couple of weeks indicates that you are a Booty call.
Just don't believe everything a guy says. They'll tell you what they think you want to hear in order to screw you. That's why he needs to behave in a way that indicates he wants more than just sex.
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reader, Xearo  +, writes (5 June 2014):
It's simple really. You need to set standards for yourself and if they aren't being met, you walk away. When it comes to sex, you just wait until you feel comfortable and know enough about the guy. A rule of thumb is about three months before having sex.
I think three months is worth waiting if you are looking for a lifelong partner. And also, like i mentioned, it should give you enough time to find out things about the guy which might be crucial to a relationship.
I do not think that FWB is a good path for long term solid relationship. I do not know any instance of this working out for a couple. If it does, there is usually a breaking point for it to happen. FWB generally means sex with no strings attached so logically I don't see how it could evolve into something greater/more.
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reader, Mark1978 +, writes (5 June 2014):
 To start with I will address the point about FWB situations that are know before sex to be FWB. Ie: where it has been discussed or two people agree to get into a FWB relationship...
The point we make again and again on here is that so many women have sex with a man who makes it crystal clear before hand that he just wants a FWB situation, to be sex buddies, and then end up hurt, jealous and angry when THEY develop feelings but the man doesn't.
The man, as you rightly said, is then often seen as a user or heartless, but in fact if he made it clear before hand that he just wanted FWB with no chance of commitment then he is not deceiving or lying or cheating. Indeed if the woman goes along with that, knowing the score, then really she only has herself to blame if she is then hurt and angry that she gets just what it says on the tin.
The reason most women get into that situation in the first place is because either they thought that by agreeing to a FWB situation with someone they liked, and possibly already had feelings for, that the man would fall for them too with time and sex, or they didn't think that they themselves would let feelings get in the way of a just sex "relationship". In reality the man doesn't fall for them but the woman falls deeper. Or her emotions get the better of her and its too difficult to deal with.
Men can (usually) have sex with no emotional attachment. Women (usually) will develop feelings with a sexual partner. This is why FWB situations are very difficult to make work as inevitably the woman develops feelings and starts wanting more than just sex, the man wants to continue having the sex without commitment. The end result is that he is often labelled a user and she is hurt and upset.
If a man, or a woman, wants casual sex or no strings attached/FWB then that's their right and his or her choice. He/she should not be criticised for wanting that as he or she is breaking no laws and if others are unhappy with the morals of it then they don't have to follow suit. If a man, or woman, makes it clear they just want sex then that is not being a user. It is being honest about what they want. No one is forcing anyone to go along with it.
The problem is we get so many posts on here along the lines of "He offered me FWB but now im in love, what are the chances of him committing to me?" and the answer is non at all. Chic flics and rom coms make FWB situations look easy, sexy and cool. The reality is usually awkward and hurtful.
The bottom line is that if you don't want to get hurt DONT even think about getting into a FWB situation. Ever. It will only caused the problems described above.
BUT, how does a woman know she is not being used for sex? How does she know, if its not explicitly implied before hand, that her man wont just vanish after sex or keep having sex with no commitment?
Well the best advice is to judge the mans actions and his patience. Any man who talks too much about sex, touches you up on a first date or puts you under pressure to sleep with him is clearly more interested in sex than love. The only way to be as certain as one can that the man is after more than just sex is to wait and let him prove he Is willing to make the effort with other areas of the relationship. By not having sex for a few weeks, if a man is looking for a quick shag he will soon loose interest and give up. If he cares enough to even consider commitment then he will be happy to wait, go on non sexual dates and get to know you as a person. That's the test.
"I would assume that dating or sleeping with someone is leading to a relationship unless you have both agreed it's only sex but it seems that it's now the other way around"
It would be naïve to think any man who offers you sex is trying to lead to a relationship. That's never been the case. Just because he hasn't told you he just wants sex doesn't mean he is looking for commitment either. Men know that many women wont feel very happy feeling used for sex so will act out a routine of liking someone in the hope to get laid. This is where experience and common sense comes into play. Its about judging a mans actions in the first few weeks to ascertain whether he is pushing to get laid, or genuinely happy to be in your company in a non sexual way.
" Please don't say to talk things over first or wait til your in a relationship - that's not how things work anymore and you would scare most people off by being too intense."/"How is it possible to know what ur getting into unless you have that conversation before sex which, let's face it, in this day and age rarely happens"
Im sorry but that's bull! Your 30-35 not 17. You should be able to discuss sex with a man before it happens and if he is scared off by you asking his reason for wanting sex then clearly he was just a player! You talk about boys and girls, but you are an adult with adult partners. You need to learn to speak up rather than waiting until the confusion after sex before knowing where you stand. Perhaps if your referring to people going out clubbing and ending up having sex with someone on a night out, then yes what you say is true, but it doesn't take a genius to see that
if a woman is shagging a man she has just met in a club, after drinking, then its hardly the basis of love and commitment.
To be honest I think you want the best of both worlds, you want to meet a guy and have sex very quickly while being safe in the knowledge that he is going to commit to you. Maybe you also want to be in a relationship with someone, but test out their sexual prowess first? Sorry but you cant have your cake and eat it.
You either wait for him to prove himself and show you that he is interested enough to leave sex until he likes you enough as a person, or you throw caution to the wind and have sex soon after meeting knowing that most of the men who do that with you are just after one thing.
Mark
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reader, WhenCowsAttack +, writes (4 June 2014):
In my opinion you can't tell for sure. Just to illustrate, when I met my husband he was a very single, very handsome bartender. We were both 40. He had well over 100 sex partners over the years, most of them much younger. He approached me with a casual sex proposition and I thought why not? I could never get attached to a guy like him.
Fast forward, he is my favorite person in the whole world and the best friend I have ever had in my life. We are 100% compatible and committed, and he is the most loving, devoted partner I have ever had. Turns out he was just holding out for ms right, but if you had asked when we met I would've never thought it would be more than a fling.
So you never know. Take risks!
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reader, Brokenv +, writes (4 June 2014):
Ok you want people's opinion, guidance and assistance...but tell us what not to tell you. Confusing.
So having a healthy, loving and caring relationship you don't tell your person of interest what you hope to achieve from this relationship? What your expectations are? What you expect in a partner?
You have to make decision that you can wake up in the morning and say "I'm ok with what is happening. I feel good about myself with this person. This person respects me as a human being."
Love is never easy. We all fall and we all hurt but finding that someone worth falling and hurting WITH makes the journey so much more.
FWB never work.....someone always gets hurt in the end.
GOOD LUCK:)
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