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female
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anonymous
writes:My question is about what happens in a situation where a couple are not yet divorced, but have come to a decision re the finances.My husband gave me a deposit for a house 2 years ago as our marriage broke down. I left him and needed somewhere else to live. He owns the family home where he has stayed - which is almost 3 times the value of my new house. He also has two other large houses which are split into flats, an inheritance from when his mother died over 20 years ago - but he always has regarded these as HIS properties - which I am happy with, as we have two sons, one of whom lives at the flats, and they are their inheritance. He is pleading poverty, as his own business (where I used to be a partner) - is failing, and he is using the rents as an income, and all the properties need work doing to them. However, he chose to remain in the large family home with our youngest son, and take out a mortgage to enable him to give me the deposit. He has promised to pay me half of his pension when he retires in 5 yrs, and to pay off my mortgage on my small house, which isn't much, considering what my solicitor told me, when he has all the assets. He will not employ a solicitor as he says it is too expensive.All I want now is a divorce, as I have now met a new man, whom I plan to move in with next month.The question is, although I am keen to do this, and let out my house, how do I secure my financial future - I have a friend in similar circumstances, and she has heard that she will lose all claim - in fact, her ex could also claim monies from her new man's income - something which is news to me!Why should you lose out just because you find someone else - my new man is not a meal ticket, and after all is said and done, it may just not work out, and I would have to move back - where would I be then, alone and penniless!!?? Where do I go from here?
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 October 2006): Hun, I read your original posting and my answer is based on your important question "how do you secure your financial future". I cannot impress upon anyone, how they need to get smart and get financially protected when it comes to divorce. Amerthyst's advice to you was right on the money when she stated some very wise words which was " Be strong and look after yourself" and I will add. You need to plan, plan, plan I cannot stress that enough. You need to do this even before you file for the divorce. Please do your homework and don't be hasty to file until you and your mediator/solicitor have everything in place. This is crucial and expect it to take time. Before you do all this, one of the most important people you can see right now is a financial planner-one who specializes in divorces. Why do you need a financial planner when you have a solicitor? Because financial planners are not experts in the law and lawyers are not expert in financial planning. A financial planner will help you build a financial plan of what you willl need in the future. It's this information you will need, when going to your lawyer to draw up a divorce agreement. So ask at your bank..they should give you some good recommendations. When you do see this person---go to him/her armed with all the information, papers, documents...everything you can think of in regards to your financial history with your husband. ou were in a legal partnership with a man and you are entitled to one-half of all assets (life insurance policies, pension plans, savings, retirement funds, properties, houses, household goods, vehicles..and on and on). You've already stated you are not interested in his inherited properties. You do not sound like a woman who wants to go in there and 'cut some throats' although many woman do just that and won't give a damn! :) I commend you for being decent about all this. You are simply looking out for yourself and asking for what you feel, you are entitled to.
One added thing and be ready for this. If you are planning to get what you are entitled to, you have to remember...he may have liabilities in the form of loans, credit cards that you both may jointly hold. Find out how to get your name cleared off these. Or when negotiating the divorce agreement, you and your husband have to be clear who is responsible for whatever debts have been incurred during the time of your marriage.. (have it written down into the divorce agreement and signed) If you are using an solicitor, he or she will do this. This should always, include account numbers, payment terms as well as instructions as to what will happen if the payments are not made. As a single woman, in the future, you want a clean credit history. So protect yourself, now. The fact you are divorcing does not relinquish his responsibility from having to pay debt but the fact the loan is also in your name does not relinquish your responsibility either. The credit card companies and banks don't care who pays it..they just want their money.
Divorce can be a nasty battleground and when you do file, your husband will be handed the papers and he will be forced to get himself a solicitor. In those divorce papers he will recieve, will be an itemized list of everything that you want out of this marriage dissolution and what you are willing to give him. That will start the ball rolling. Ask your solicitor what will happen if he doesn't get a solicitor to represent him.
Hun, I wish you the best. You likely know all I have told you but I want you to know... I've been where you are and it was a long drawn out process for me. A few headaches but well worth it when all was said and done. But you need to stick to your guns and not end up with nothing. You put your heart and soul into this partnership and marriage, too. You now owe it to yourself to make sure your future is secure. Hunker down, be strong and I wish you the best of luck. Keep us posted. Take care.
Irish
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female
reader, beentheredonethat +, writes (11 October 2006):
 While sarcasm is most definitely one of my blatant flaws it is sarcasm with a point and with Humor not anger. I did not mean to infer that you should attempt to be superwoman. My friends situation was meant to show you that no matter how bad you think your situation is...there are others who have had less and still achieved a dream. It was meant to inspire you to realise that if someone else could overcome her much greater walls, perhaps you to could find the strength to find your own path through what in perspective seems like much smaller troubles. I told you of my aunt, not to say that you should DO ANYthing you don't want to do...but to make you realise that you are still quite young and might still have a lot to offer the world if you choose to. If they can overcome such horrible obstacles....you can overcome your own IF you wish to. You stated that your husband gave you some money to help you start a new life. That alone is kinder than some start with. You want half of the life you built together and have already been told by a solicitor that you have a Right to it. I did not state that the house was his family's...I asked? It is your right to have half of anything he has...you said you didn't want the flats. Ok, tell a solicitor that. Morally you are torn, not because you don't think you deserve More but because you know that both of your grown sons live dependant on what you do. If you force him to sell the house he and your son live in...where will your son go? If he has to move into a flat...will the other son have to move out?
My next point was they are big boys and it is not too early in life for them to survive on their own...thus YOU should figure out exactly what you want and let them rely on themselves. But, you should think carefully before you throw their lives into turmoil...because from their perspective it may seem like a selfish thing to do. They will not understand all of this from your point of view. They will think...Mom does not care if we are homeless...and Dad will probably feed that perspective. So you have to decide if you want to think of your two grown up sons living arrangements and if so weigh what you tell the solicitor with them in mind. However...they may never forgive you or they may suddenly realise it is time to stand on their own and one day thank you. You have to live with what ever you decide and whatever they feel about it. I am sorry if those points were too oblique.
I did miss the point entirely that you didn't want to do anything To secure your financial future that required risk, work or anything other than getting your husband to sell some things and give you half. You seemed very upset that he still had the business you had put so much into and he was ruining it...so I suggested that perhaps you buy him out and you acted like I had lost my mind. "Why would I want to buy a worthless company"
You said you just wanted half of the proceeds from the house but your husband won't hear of it. Your husband will not have a choice if you get your own legal representation...it is then out of his hands. Now in some places if you reside with another man BEFORE you settle your divorce...it will change the rules. He will not have to pay you spousal support...that may be what your friend was talking about. And you will be giving him a case of abandonment...in which the court may view his side as much more favorable and give you less....So if your solicitor asks for half of everything..then he has somewhere to negotiate. If you were to get more than you want and don't want to leave your sons in a difficult position...give them the excess and tell them it's to get them started. Then nobody will wonder about a new spouse of either of you taking it. Simply tell them it is their inheritance from you.
I did not mean to say that you had to open a business if you don't want...the point was to think about what you want starting from where you are...set some reasonable goals and begin working toward them. But, I considered your business experience an asset and therefore took it into account as something that you could easily be at home with at any age. Graphic Design is not rocket science and you did make it sound like you had done a great deal of the work...and I Said before if not that...pick something else you liked...thinking you could choose how hard you wanted to work...pick your hours and control your life. It was meant as an example not an order. One goal would be to end your two year limbo and settle your past so that you might see your future more clearly. That is also an example.
My deepest apologies once again if my advise that you should think about what you want and alll the possible consequences then make the best decision you can has upset you further. My goal has been to help you think your own process through and make your own choices. though I have utterly failed with you, the advice was free and you have received content worthy of every penny you paid. (you are now supposed to smile and keep on smiling because your life is really pretty good...isn't' it really?)
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reader, eyeswideopen  +, writes (11 October 2006):
 I hope this all works out well for you, you do have more coming to you so see that lawyer again. You go girl!
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 October 2006): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you Amerthyst, you give sound and logical advice - and recognise that whilst I could be Superwoman, we realise that most of us are after all, mere mortals!!
No anger, no sarcasm, just good advice and understanding!..Also, you read and understood my post in the first place!
My ex was a graphic designer, I looked after everything else. Manually. Now we have computers, I took courses in computer skills.
I do not harbour anger or resentment..nor do I want the world on a silver platter - I only want what is rightfully mine, and what I have worked for for the past 30 years. Everyone else I have spoken to seems to be telling me I am owed a lot more than what I am asking for...Why should I have to slave away and kill myself whilst my ex lives the life of Riley on what I spent over half my life working for???
Yes, I'm in my 50's..."WhooHoo"!!, I'm gonna kick the ass out of life whilst I am still alive - not work myself into an early grave, ta very much!!
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reader, beentheredonethat +, writes (11 October 2006):
Ok...where i got it from was your second post...."He spends most of his time on the golf course in Spain."
and NO I am not missing the point...you have a lot of excuses for your children...and you seem to feel I am attacking you...when all I was doing was Asking you to THINK about what YOU have said.
YOU said you were his partner and said YOU had helped him build that business and that without your attention it was failing....so I mistakenly concluded that with your attention it again would flourish. Now, because you are in your fifties...whoo hooo....you CAN'T open a business?????? And it might fail.....Ok. I guess I have missed the point because I thought you were asking for reasonable ideas. My aunt opened her third business when she was 72 and ran it for 11 years...do you think she heard her retired buddies laughing at her foolishness...She laughed with them and Did it anyway.
You can secure your finances by winning the lottery...oh wait that is not a guarantee either. Rob a bank and invest all the money in....oh wait...the market might fail entirely.
Honey...you are in your Fifties....guess what...Life is no guarantee of any kind. My friend just graduated from law school here in the states...she's fifty seven and has been in practice for two years....she raise 5 children including one disabled child on welfare while putting herself through school. She never got one dime from the Ex (who beat her up with her Daddy's permission...cause DAD used to hit her as well and made her marry this guy at 16)and Mr. Wonderful left her in debt. When he left she didn't even have a high school diploma and the kids were 14,12,6,5, and 2. She was too old for law school...didn't have any money, time, hope or encouragement...hmmmmm Now what was your problem again?
I suggested you get a solicitor no matter what...but you missed that point too. You want your Ex to pay for one? Is that what your waiting for? If so your giving Him control of When.
If your asking Us what your rights are...but you have already been to a solicitor and he's told you...what on earth are you waiting for? When you hire a solicitor...he is your employee....He cannot ask for anything you choose to tell him you don't feel you morally deserve. Honey...we don't even know what country you live in...How could WE advise you on the Laws and YOUR RIGHTS?
I advise you to decide what you want and Go after it....and stop coming up with a million reasons you Can't. The decisions You make will secure your finances...or they won't. But sitting around Not making a decision for fear of a mistake....will definitely not do it.
He must have been really controlling...because now your free and all you can see are walls. Any time you say I Cant...that door shuts right then. I can't is an automatic NO. You can say what you want...but just in your post to me...you have a great deal of anger bottled up with a mess of helpless and that cork is going to blow soon and you will jump around and make a bunch of rash decisions and then go back to helpless because some of them were wrong.
You have found a new man....wow...congratulations....but you need to close some doors to give you and the new guy some privacy....a solicitor can help you accomplish that and no matter what you say...you can afford one simply because you can't afford NOT to employ one.
Now you don't need to go on another rant about how I don't get you....your probably right and I apologize in advance for anything I have said that was of no use to you. Best of luck to you.
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reader, amerthyst0202  +, writes (11 October 2006):
 Hi what you are saying is your happy with your new man you love your kids, but don't like the way your husband treats them or you when you lived together you don't want to fleece him but you want whats yours so you can have a comfortable life which in the end is what we all want just make sure he doesnt small change you that's all.
you deserve the best anyone can give you we all do and you seem as if you were in a relationship just like my self where he didn't let you have any credit for the work done. (we to had our own business too) Be strong and look after yourself because it seems that's what he is doing. IF is a big word but what if he does remarry your sons could be left with nothing, he has money to go to Spain (golfing?) so why doesnt he give his ex partner within the marriage and the company, which is what she deserves a decent life to look forwardto wishing you Happiness A
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 October 2006): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHe was a graphic designer, and would not share his skills with me, as he was a man who guarded this side of things jealously. Whenever anyone complimented me or my work, he did all he could to take the credit for it. I was not worried about that, as I am not a vain person - and I knew where my strengths lied, and that people could see that.
However, I am now in my 50's, and have no funds to start my own business in any case. And what if I did sell my house in order to set up a business "in this climate"; what if it failed?? For sure, I WOULD be up the creek without a paddle!!!
You are completely missing the point when you say my sons live with him - The eldest has a house of his own, but lets it out. He had a very good job until he was made redundant, but still goes to college even though he has had a breakdown - not helped by my husband's unfair treatment of him.
It is the youngest who is still with him, but just because he is out of work due to his chronic asthma and eczema. He is the one I have most concerns about. And yes, these things are beyond my control - and I HAVE let it go!
I did not choose to live here, I had no choice as I could not afford to live anywhere else!
Another thing - the family house he lives in - was NOT an inheritance - the FLATS were.. WE bought that house, and lived there for over 25 years - why should I not have at least half of its value?? I am not touching the flats - He can keep them, however if I were to die, everything I own will go to my boys anyhow.
As for that family home - Your suggestion re him moving out into one of his flats and selling up to give me half, less what he gave to me for my house is exactly what I want, but he will not hear of it. And I do NOT resent the fact that it was left to him - I am just explaining what the facts are..
And, WHY would I want to buy a worthless company and why would my ex wish to LIVE in Spain?? What are you talking about!?!
I have no "resentment", I am moving on with my life - all I was asking is what my rights are...I have been to a solicitor months ago, and all they say is that I am entitled to half of everything he owns, flats, house, car, plus maintenance, half his pension, stocks and shares, savings (none) 'blah, blah, blah'!!
I have no intention of going down that road - I decided to move out, and though I am legally entitled, I do not believe I am MORALLY entitled!
I have a new man and I am very happy. I harbour NO resentment, so I really do not know where you got that one from!!
Thanks to Amerthyst for your thoughts - (sorry, but all this is not directed at you)!!
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reader, amerthyst0202 +, writes (10 October 2006):
get yourself a solicitor and sort it once and for all.
you are entitled to half of what he owned when you were married.
Dont let him take away what is legally yours.
you will then have your own inheritance to leave to your sons. what if he remarries it will all go to new wife if he dies. had you thought about that one go see a solicitor what ever it costs it will be worth it in the end.
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reader, beentheredonethat +, writes (10 October 2006):
No, You did not make the facts clear. You asked how to make sure you were ok financially and explained that your Ex gave you money for a house and was going to spilt his retirement with you...and your children lived with him.
Now I have your dander up...I still think you need to look at your life and say...hey...what can I do for me. You just said YOU helped him build that business that he is now ruining. There is nothing like competition...start your own company...surely if you helped him build it...you know at least as much as he does... possibly more as he was not doing it right.
It won't kill your son to clean toilets and if he doesn't like paying Dad rent because he makes his life miserable then he's a big boy and can move out and make his own way. Your right, they are not tots and I am now confused about why they still live with a parent at their age. Are they in University...getting Doctorates...or just cant stand the thought of leaving mean old dad? It is beyond your control...let it go.
As far as Ex living in an affluent place while you are in a cheap run down section....Did the Ex choose this place for you? You picked it out....sell it if you don't like it...invest in a place to start your own business. If you had to sleep in a back room on a cot for a couple years....SO WHAT..its not like you have little tots to worry about. If you don't like the graphic design thing....you have business experience...Pick something and DO it.
The house he lives in....is a family house...His family gave it to him and his children?...If he grew up in that house and his parents grew up in that house....OF COURSE he kept it....resenting that should have been one of those things you thought about before you accepted cash to buy something else...which is now a mortgage on his home that was not there before you left. Now if you guys bought that together then he should move into one of his Flat's and you should sell the big house and split proceeds minus the down-payment you got already.
I am sure you did think long and hard about leaving him....but you also thought money didn't matter enough to stay....don't resent that his parents left him some. Go make your own and then this Huge burden in your life is gone and you will look back and wonder why you let any of that get to you. Sell the run down place...move in with the new guy while you start your own company with the funds from the sale...if you and new guy don't make it...you have your company...you'll never be penniless again. Ex hubby only wants to play golf in Spain...perhaps you can just buy the company from him...he could live in Spain full time...you and your son could work together...and New guy could use a few extra bucks on the mortgage you bring in with your new business.
See my main trouble with the way you put it at first was that your Friend blah blah blah....
Your friend is not you. You have to decide what you want. But you also have to take into consideration what the rest of your family wants. The boys seem happy enough not to move out...and they are way past the age of living with parents...they should be starting families of their own...I mean maybe they are disabled or something and that would be different....but come on...if they are able bodied and not mentally impaired....What is going on there.
Get a solicitor...you don't need the ex's permission and you seem in a hurry to get things settled. If he's to stupid to pay for one for himself....the better for yours. And don't tell me you can't afford to pay for your own....If you want this...you will find a way. I personally would not have set foot out of the house without one.
I don't know the laws in your area and relying on Friends to know them is a waste of time. Get a professional then.... Get rid of all the resentment you are harboring because it is not making you think very clearly about all the possibilities that are open before you because you have not yet turned to glance at them for staring into the past. Good luck with new guy but don't waste your life counting on a grand Settlement from the ex. There may be huge bills you know nothing about or any number of chinks in the armor...accept it, deal with it, let it go and be free.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 October 2006): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionFYI - I am living on a low income, and my boys are aged 34 and 27, not little tots - I have been unhappily married to a very selfish man who did not sleep with - sex just was non-existant for 18 months; has always kept me short of money, even when I was a partner in his business (which I helped him to build up, since he was not pulling his weight, and was not treating his suppliers right, also being rude and dishonest to his customers - it was a graphic design/print company, and could have remained very successful if he had put half the amount of effort which I did!)
I have no desire to have him 'support my new guy', as you put it, he has his own income, but also has a large mortgage to pay, and I don't have any intention of 'using' anyone - one of the deciders for my leaving was that I was not about to stay in a marriage if the only 'plus' was that he paid the bills - I resent the implication that I was a user!
Furthermore, I will add that this house is the cheapest I could find in a run-down area, whilst he has a huge house in a very affluent area. He is NOT supporting me or our eldest son, and makes our youngest, who lives with him, his life is miserable, and I cannot help as my house is too small for him to live with me.
He still spends most of his time on the golf course, in Spain, or out at the races, leaving my son on his own to try to keep the business afloat. Our other son has to take care of the flats, cleaning out toilets and paying his father rent at the same time!
As I have said, I have no desire to make anyone my 'meal ticket', and am doing all I can to provide a life for myself...I thought long and hard about leaving my husband..I did not love him as he let me - and others - down in so many ways, and constantly made me look a fool in front of family and friends.
So I have every right to feel short-changed, IMHO! These are the facts - maybe I have clarified the situation here, sorry I did'nt make myself clear!!
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reader, beentheredonethat +, writes (10 October 2006):
So you don't want your husband or kids....Just their money so you don't have to worry about life? Who will benefit if he died tomorrow...your children...yet your really only worried about getting money to support you and your new guy...even if he might not work out. Penniless? He gave you enough to buy a house to your own liking....he has not asked for child support from you...even though he's supporting you and your children and himself...and now in this economy...his business is failing...and your worried about getting more....so you'll be set up better. No...your ex can not claim any part of your new guys income...unless it is mutual income...as in YOU and he are in business together.....and your children need support.
It sounds to me like your Ex has been pretty fair and decent to you...why not return the gesture. If you want out fast...then take responsibility for yourself and figure out how to make your own money and stop expecting the person you left to continue to support you. You are your own Meal ticket...take pride in that and enjoy the freedom it gives you.
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