A
male
age
30-35,
*nickx
writes:Hey –So long story semi-short. My girl and I have been together for 9 months. She’s 16, I’m 18. We’ve been together since she was 15 and a freshman in high school, and I 17 and a senior.She’s adopted, been with that family for 4 years now. Came from a bad background, her dad died, her mom od’d, her biological sister picked up the habit from mom. The family she’s in now, she’s basically Cinderella. She does near everything (even when she has triplet brothers a year younger and a younger sister, all adopted, none related) and is always used as the scapegoat.If her brothers break something, it’s her fault for not keeping them in check. If she yells at her brothers to settle down, she gets in trouble for starting a fight between the siblings. If her sister says something smart to her or her sister back talks her parents and she makes a comment that if she said that she’d be in trouble, she gets in trouble because she’s supposed to be the older sibling and understand. If she ignores it and doesn’t respond to her sister, she’s being immature.On the other side of the coin, we’re given virtually no freedom when dating. She’s allowed to see two people per week, regardless of whether it’s me, or her best friend, or someone for a school project. If her friend or someone can’t make the day her mom picks, she has to work on it solo. And when I do get to see her, it can’t be any longer than four hours at a time. Except for the times that her parents aren’t home when I go to drop her off, so we call to tell them we’re going back to my house so she’s not there alone, and they get ticked because they had to drop what they were doing to come back and be there.I’m sorry, but the way I was raised that would be extremely inappropriate to just drop her off with no one home, or stay there with her with no one home. Not only that but I’m fairly certain her parents would kill us if we did that.Ordinarily, the seeing 2 people a week isn’t bad. Because during the week I’m at college 100 miles away. I come home every weekend Friday night and spend a few hours with her. I spend Saturday nights as our date night, and then I see her Sunday morning in church and drive back. Yes I feel guilty that she has to pick between me and her friends, but I know how she feels about me, and how I feel about her, and it’s doable, and therefore she always unconditionally comes before my friends. But like now, I’m on spring break and it’s just not fair. But the four hours? My dad’s borderline flipping on her parents a) because of the way she’s treated, and b) because we could be in the middle of an intense conversation me her and my dad, and we have to drop everything to get her home. And her parents would never understand.And she’s such an amazing girl too. Like she’s 4.0 every grade period. Extremely intelligent. She never complains. She’s honestly one of the prettiest girls I know. And her morals are spot on as well.Anyways, there’s a lot of mental abuse going on, and well my parents have been through divorce and there was mental abuse so I know mental abuse is hard to prove. And with the latest argument, her mom has told her twice to move out if she doesn’t like it.Trouble is, she has no family. With the exception of her sister, who just got in contact with her for the first time in four years about three weeks ago. She’s talked to her a bit since, and she says she’s clean for 3 years, and she very well may be. But there’s a chance that she isn’t, and quite frankly, there are a lot of risks in my head that she may be taking if she would move there. Her mom has already told her that she’ll get in contact with her sis soon to see if she moved in.I’ve ran over a lot of thoughts in my mind of how I can get her out of this situation. If she goes into foster care again, theres no guarantee she’ll get a better family. After she was taken off the streets of the place when her parents died, she’s been all over two states.Marriage is out of the question until she’s 18. Unless she gets pregnant (which would be against both our morals, and the law), and we go to another state to get married. Or I drop out of college to be with her. None of these are even remotely good options. I’m heavily considering just going to pick her up right now.Surely in a court of law, me taking her from that home is less evil and would stand up better then her parent’s evils?? Or what if she run’s away?? I’m not sure what the legal protocol is for that.I’m not sure. I’m not looking for any concrete answer of what to do. But I need suggestions, options, and probably most importantly consequences.Many thanks,
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (12 March 2012):
 I'm just going to go through some of your points here.
"I've known her since she was 14; her triplet brothers, now 15, are given so much slack, nothing close to when she was fifteen."
That isn't unusual or particularly mean. It's unfair, sure, but life isn't fair. It was the same with me and my little brothers. The eldest is always given more responsibility, regardless of their age. At 8 I had to look out for my brother. When he turned 8 himself I still had to look out for him and be responsible for him. Heck, my dad even expects me to look after him now that he is an adult too. It's life. It's how it is.
"Her sister talks back now and SHE get's in trouble for it, not her sister. "
Same thing. It's unfair, sure, but it's how it is. She needs to suck it up and get on with the program, as do you. Sorry that this comes out as harsh, but I was treated the same way, or worse, while growing up. So I know what I am talking about, and the best your girlfriend can do about this particular situation is to accept it and learn how to work within the system.
I'd get hit, or lifted by my hair or ears, if my little brothers did something wrong. So I made sure to watch them. Unfair? Yes, sure. But I don't pity someone who gets the same treatment, because that is how it is in some families. And there isn't the darnest thing you can do about it other than wait until you are old enough to move out. She'll only make her situation worse if she continues to fight it, and you will make her situation worse if YOU start to fight it.
"I'm sorry, that seems a little wrong to me." Your opinion in this is irrelevant. You need to understand that, for everyones sake. Sure it isn't fair or fun. But it is how it is, you need to accept it. The oldest is close to always given the work, and needs to do more than all other siblings combined. Do not start to fight in this battle, because you will lose and only make her situation worse, by giving her extra reasons to be punished, or extra reasons to not see you.
You're taking too much of this on you, making it your problem when it isn't yours. You don't know the full picture, you only see some of it, and you fill in the blanks yourself. For all I know your girlfriend loves her siblings, even if they don't work hard or get her in trouble. But you on the other hand write almost spiteful of them. Almost as if you wish her siblings didn't exist because they don't work hard enough, or they are lazy, or they get away with things etc. This isn't healthy. You can't be angry at them for her sake. As long as her siblings didn't do anything to YOU, then it isn't within your rights to be mad at them. She needs to deal with them herself. All you should do is offer a listening ear when she needs to let things off her chest. But do not get involved. This isn't your battle to fight.
A
male
reader, xnickx +, writes (6 March 2012):
xnickx is verified as being by the original poster of the question If you don't mind, I'm going to PM you because I've tried to post about other types of abuse here in the past, and they've rejected my posts.
I know there was sexual abuse in the past by her father. It happened multiple times before we were together.. when she told me about it about we were 3 months into our Her mom gave her the option of leaving, or staying, but taking no legal action.
i was unsure what to do, as she was taking extreme measures to protect herself, and since it didn't happen recently, i wasn't sure if the allegations would actually go through, or if it would just make it worse for her.
So far it hasn't happened again, and during our relationship her parents haven't physically abused her in any other way. But I don't like just waiting for something else to happen either.
The only thing that happened every once and a while is she'd have a breakdown and cut herself. She hasn't done it for a longtime, not since I told her if she did it anymore I would start.
To clear a few things up, she IS actually adopted now, I don't think her parents receive any money, although i could be wrong. And I should have cleared it up, her mom died when she od'd so her sister is the only one left.
Her adoptive mom has told her she will contribute to college, however I am personally skeptical (whether this is based on my personal prejudice or sound fact, i really don't know right now) that she will follow through, and if she does, how much. They have a hard time making ends meet as it is. She got yelled at this weekend (in front of her friend) because she offered her best friend blueberry juice for breakfast instead of orange juice and blueberry juice is more expensive. i can't see them putting 4 kids through college in 2 years, with a fifth 2 years behind them.
From what she told me, most of her biological family is unstable, drinking problems, drug problems, etc. We don't talk about it much, as like i said, this contact with her sister is the first contact with any of her family in years.
Her adoptive mom wont give her the chance to meet her sister, so it's hard to determine how she's doing or if she's lying.
She has found out that her sister is living out of her boyfriends aunts house until they can afford to buy a house, living off her boyfriends income. They have an infant and another one on the way.
I'm not sure about the life insurance - that would be a great thing to find out though.
And her mom won't let her get a job. She insists it will take up to much time, and she wont have enough time to do anything. Let alone the fact that they can't afford car insurance for her to get her licence, and her mom wouldn't take her everyday.
We talked about getting a job together over the summer so she had a ride, but her parents shot that down too.
I'm not going to drop out of school - It was merely one of the many options that crossed my mind. I'm going for neuroscience, psych and physical therapy and I'm at the top of my class , so when i get out, I'll almost guaranteed have a solid job and will be able to support the both of us, should we still be together. Unfortunately, that's a good 5 years away.
And to be honest, I forgot about emancipation all together. However, our state laws require her to have a job, as well as meeting several other criteria that aren't true at this point, which puts an end to that route for now.
Undoubtedly, my dad would help support us and her until we got on our feet, even if she got emancipated tomorrow.
If we really had to, my mother is pretty loaded, but i cut all ties to her 5 years ago when she basically kidnapped my little sis and ran off with another guy, and then put my family through hell. My 18th birthday present from her was my emancipation papers, but I would reconcile with her if it meant giving my girlfriend the life she deserves.
She goes to be crying almost every night; she tells me every morning she wants to leave, I don't want her (or me) to make a rash decision.
At the same time I'd love to get her out of there, I wouldn't be worrying this much if I didn't see a future in us. And if she couldn't go to a friend's family house, my dad would let her stay here.
I know that brings in a whole slew of other issues, with her still being young and maybe not making her mind up 100% even though she's told me she has, and we're both extremely committed to making this work. And I wouldn't want to give her the awkward situation of moving out later after my dad helped support her, and it didn't work.
Still she deserves so much better after the life she had. I really really thank you for taking the time and helping me sort through this - i really needed it.
We still have a long while of deciding to do, but I definitely think getting her out of her house is the best thing to do.
Many thanks,
Nick.
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A
male
reader, xnickx +, writes (6 March 2012):
xnickx is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCC-
I'm not going to hate your answer. In fact, I thank you for taking the time to read my lengthy post, and answer, and I always appreciate hearing multiple opinions.
Do i agree with you? no. But first and foremost you mixed up some crucial info.
Initially, for probably the first 6 months, I thought the same way too. I was happy to follow their rules. I sucked up as much as possible to the parents, kissed their asses all the way, because I was appreciative that they were taking measures to protect their daughter.
However, as time went on, (we're 9mos in now) I started to notice some other things that were just.. off.
I will not dispute your point that my position makes me see some things extra negatively, I want the best for this girl; I want to be together with her. I do see a future in us, as naive as that sounds.
However, she's not 17, she just turned 16. I've known her since she was 14; her triplet brothers, now 15, are given so much slack, nothing close to when she was fifteen. They break everything by their constant fighting; picture frames, various trinkets, dining room chairs, they've broken their doors off the hinges. My girlfriend gets in trouble for not stopping them. She get's in trouble if she tells yet to stop. Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.
And let's keep in mind, she is the newest to be adopted into the family too.
Just as an example, on Christmas, her brothers, all three of them picked her up, two by the feet, one by the arms, and dragged her to her room. On the way, a brand new picture frame was broken because she was struggling to get away. SHE got in trouble for not stopping them from picking her up, and then not being careful.
And she doesn't YELL at her siblings. However, when she was her sister's age, if she talked back, she would've been put in her place. She's fed up now with getting the short end of the stick - i don't blame her. Her sister talks back now and SHE get's in trouble for it, not her sister. As if her sister’s behavior is caused by my girlfriend and her sister can’t help it.
Another example, her little sister asked her to pull 3 of her teeth for her on Saturday; She said she would if they were lose, but she doubted if all of them were lose. Her sister said fine, don't do anything for me, went to her room, slammed her door and started crying, and MY GIRLFRIEND got in trouble for making her cry.
And the biggest thing that got me out of your post:
She has never ever bitched about doing work. She does everything her parent's ask without question, WHILE her siblings slack and she's still treated far harsher. I complain far more than she does.
Example: She puts in a quarter of the yard work (out of her and her 3 brothers), however, she spent a portion of Saturday, cleaning up her brothers piss cuz they pissed all over their bathroom and when they were told to clean it up they refused and so her mom told her to do it. And this is a routine Saturday.
I'm sorry, that seems a little wrong to me. She has three capable brothers, yet she helps them do all the yard work, when they cant learn to clean up after themselves after they're told?
I wouldn't have a problem with it if the work was equal, if everyone was treated equally. Her dad spends all day sleeping and smoking. Her mom, does put a lot of work in, but then if you claim it's her parents being old fashioned and trying to make her well adjusted, why aren't the other siblings treated equally.
As far as freedom of dating.. I know there's no such thing. But come on. She's expected to do so much around the house, and she follows through, shouldn't she be rewarded in some way? I'm not even complaining about the 2 days a week with me. I know she's expected to get good grades. If she ever got a B on her report card, her mom would make us stop seeing each other for a while.
But she is literally the most mature high school kid I know. She conducts her self with such poise and maturity, more so than most of my college friends. yet her parents control her every move. It bothers me that she has to pick between me and friends.
And I'm no slouch either, her parents know I don't drink, smoke, I've never sworn in front of her parents, I hardly even ever swear in front of her. I'm a 4.0 college student.
Hell, I even drive speed limit. Most of the time.
And again, you have misunderstood me. It's still 4 hours on Saturday night. If we go out, we can't go out to dinner and a movie due to the time constraints. Sunday morning is strictly church. So an hour. There's no negotiating terms. Ive tried.
Get this: Her mom said I could come over for a short while after church last Sunday to say goodbye before I head back to college. So what happens, we get to her house and her mom throws a fit because there were chores that needed done. So I spend an hour doing yard work with her, took a 10minute walk and I said goodbye.
Her dad tried to say we had 3 dates that weekend after her mom said I could come over and i spent too much time doing HIS YARDWORK, tried to limit us to 1 date this weekend.
Which was bull, because, both of our dates were already planned because i spent 40 bucks in tickets for 2 nights of our highschools performance of greece, so we could see both casts.
And again, the 4 hours is non-negotiable. After the musical, the cast usually goes to kings to celebrate. She was allowed to go to kings to see her friends all 4 performances last year night when she was 15. But this year simply because of rules put in place for the sake of rules, she wasn't allowed to go even once.
And it's not 4 hours of sweet nothings. Just because she has a friend over means she's done doing chores. I'd estimate that when we spend time over her house, at least half of it is spent washing dishes, mopping the floors, cleaning the garage, etc.
As far as leaving her home alone, it just wouldn't be a good idea. I'll try post the PM i sent Deagan in a sec and hopefully that'll clear some things up.
I'm not complaining about the rules. I don't mind rules when they're fair. Unfortunately, she's far from being treated fairly. I love her therefore I want the best for her, no matter what. It has less to do with the rules in place.
In any case, thanks for at least taking the time to read my lengthy post and come up with an answer.
-Nick.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (6 March 2012):
 I know you'll just hate my answer and won't agree with me at all, you don't have too and I do not want to convince you. Just to show that there are always two sides of the coin.
Obviously I can 't discount your perception of what's going on and just dismiss it as " teen drama "- there are just too many horror stories about foster parents to naively assume that foster parents are always angels that only want the best for the kids they take in. BUT, based on my experience as a mother, an aunt ( in real life too, not only on Dc ), an older friend / teacher / mentor for various kids, I say that your perception of things may be strongly affected by your position of teenage Romeo.
So far, what you report does not sound like psychological abuse. It sounds like a family enforcing rules. A bit strict maybe, a tad old fashioned, but pretty much nothing out of the ordinary , they don't show " evil " intentions, just the intention to rise a kid properlly and make her into a well adjusted, well behaved, serious, responsible adult.
Let's start with the relationship between siblings. OF COURSE they demand more from the older one. She's 17, not a kid anymore, she can't relate to parents and siblings as if she still were 12 ! YELLING at the siblings ??, talking back ? Saying things that fuel silly arguments and confrontations rather than defusing them , bitching about having more work to do than the young ones ? This IS immature. If she wants to be treated and respected as an adult she has to prove she is one.
As for your " freedom of dating "- there's no such thing, she'll date whom she wants for how long she wants when she'll be of age AND will have her own place. I see from DC that tons of girls still nowadays, year 2012, aren't allowed to date AT ALL while they are still in school. Either their parents want them to focus on their studies only, or just make sure they stay out of trouble ( and I am not only talking about pregnancies, but anything : drinking, car accidents, or .. simple heartbreak ), anyway you two are not having it that bad. In fact, it sounds her parents allow her a reasonable time for cultivating her romance. Friday night, all Saturday, and Sunday morning, plus , I suppose, you can stay in touch during the week, what else do you want ?? Yes of course , you are in love and you want MUCH more, it's expectable, but it is also expectable that her foster parents want to teach her to take her life seriously and responsibly and that romance and dating should be a PART of a teen life, not an all consuming priority.
Ditto for the 4 hours limit. I bet that they would allow , or you could negotiate, more time for special occasions, a birtday party or a school event, etc., but for just shooting the breeze, looking into each other's eyes and whispering sweet nothings... 4 hours are plenty .
As for the " not leaving her home alone " , I don't get that. Unless it is some very dangerous, or totally isolated rural area, I don't see why your gf can't be home alone for a little while waiting for her foster parents to come back. The important thing is that you don't join her !, if you two are not allowed to be at home alone. Regardless, that's a problem that could easily be solved by coordinating with the parents and making phone arrangements with them, to know when they'll be at home. Yes, you have to work around THEIR schedule, tough luck. They are the adults, and the ones who go to work - their engagements take priority over yours.
I understand that all this is hard to handle for a young man in love- lovers do not like rules, and they chomp at the bite . But from setting strict(ish ) rules, to child abuse... there's still a big stretch, at least based on your description.
Of course, if there really were more going on, you could, and should, report it to the agency or services that sent her to that foster home, and she could be relocated . But keep in mind that , if she goes , say, to a group home, she'll have even STRICTER visitation rules, and you may have to make do with less than 4 hours at a time .
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A
female
reader, Deagan +, writes (6 March 2012):
 I wish I could message you privately, but here goes:
First of all, it's very admirable for you to be wanting to help her, unfortunately, there are some guys out there that will dump the girl if she has too much family drama. You are a gem, and your girlfriend is lucky to have you.
Let's try and tackle this.
First, what are her foster parent's plans with her after she turns 18? Are they going to continue supporting her or are they going to kick her out into the streets after the government stops sending support money? Does she have any idea?
If they do care for her and intend to support her after she turns into a legal adult, she can't burn bridges. She's going to need all the help she can get. Unfortunately, she's going to have to tough it out in the mean time. She's at a tough age where she is so close yet so far away from reaping the benefits of adulthood.
If they are not going to support her after she turns 18, she needs to start looking into options now. I understand her biological family do not appear to be responsible, but they are family. It sounds like her sister is reaching out to her. What about your girlfriends grandparents? Aunts, uncles? Surely living with them can be considered? She has to talk to her sister and address a few questions with her. Is she really clean? Is she maintaining a roof over her head? Is she stable? Able to keep a job? How is she affording everything?
I agree with you, it's a bit worrisome that her mother and sister are horrible influences, and I too would be worried that her sister might cause her to start using drugs (etc), but your girlfriend will have to make that determination on her own whether or not she will be able to live with her. Your girlfriend does seem to have a good head on her shoulders, on the bright side. But she and her sister might be all they've got, and they might have to stick together.
Something else to consider- Did her parents have life insurance? A will? Is she listed as a beneficiary? If she does, she can't touch that money until she's 18, so make sure she looks into it when the time comes. Can she has her sister about it? I would advise that she does not bring it up with her foster parents, if they find out she's investigating if her parents had life insurance, her foster parents will see it as a threat.
Does your girlfriend have a job? Is she saving that money to better herself one day? Can she get a job to save up to start taking care of herself?
When she turns 18, if she has a reasonable source of income and has money saved, she can start looking for an apartment and roommates.
You are also right when you say that she can not afford to be shoved back into the foster care system- there is no guarantee that she will be with a good family.
Do not drop out of school, what good will it do anyway? She will still have friend and boyfriend restrictions even if you are in or out of college. I can not stress enough that you need to finish school! That will negatively affect the rest of your life otherwise!
As for marriage, if the both of you are still together, love each other, and want to be together, in two years when she turns 18, you can ask yourself, "why not?" It sounds like the both of you would get support for your side of the family.
Let's discuss her foster parents. You mention she's mentally abused, but is she physically abused? If she is, she should really report them. Otherwise, she can't risk reporting them or threatening to take legal action against them because they could really make her life even worse for her. She might face consequences like not being able to see friends at all, or they might start mentally abusing her even more. Her foster mom has said that she can leave if she doesn't like it, what happens if her foster mom is serious next time? Then she really doesn't have a place to go too.
You ask about laws, she could technically emancipate herself but what good will that do if she can't support herself?
She can't run away, her foster parents are legal guardians of her and she will stir up a lot of problems with them when she is escorted back to them.
Here's what she needs to be doing:
Getting a job and start saving up to get her own place and share costs with roommates when she turns 18. At least working will get her out of the house.
Investigating whether or not being with her sister would better her situation.
Now, there were reasons why I needed to get away from "home" as soon as possible. I worked full time and went to school full time. I was able to save enough to get a place of my own. I finished college, I learned my trade, saved more money, and bought a house when I was 20 years old. This wasn't long ago.
I tell you this because, with enough determination, your girlfriend can prevail. If she turns 18 with no money to her name, and can't afford school right away, she has several options:
Join the police academy. It's crap pay if you don't have a college backyard, but the government offers tuition assistance to police officers.
It's a difficult and big decision to make, but has she considered joining the military? You get health insurance, training, tuition assistance and help having a roof over your head. I understand the down side is you have to commit to at least 4 years of service, but it's something to consider if she has to support herself.
Teach for America is a wonderful program that recruits individuals to train them to become teachers for impoverished schooling areas. They train you, help you, in turn, they ask for your service. http://www.teachforamerica.org/
These are all the suggestions I can give for now, feel free to message me privately if you can. Best of luck to you and your girlfriend.
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