A
female
age
36-40,
*hloebabeechick
writes:I have a great boyfriend, we've been dating for several months and we spend practically every day together. He is white, and I'm a black female. Recently, however, he's been letting me know that some of his friends are 'teasing' him about dating a black girl. They make jokes about him preferring 'dark meat' and gross things like that. This is moderately disturbing, but what bothers me the most is that it actually seriously bothers him. He feels the need to tell them (and me) that he's not really attracted to black girls typically, he's just attracted to me. He even went so far as saying, "I don't find flat noses and wide lips attractive." And something else to the effect that I'm about as close to a white girl as a black girl gets. I understand he was drunk when he said those things, but I really find it very offensive. I'm still black, regardless of whether I talk 'ghetto' or not, or don't have a flat nose, or wide lips. Why the heck would he care so much about what his friends think his preference is? And doesn't he realize they're only teasing him because it's clearly getting a reaction out of him? I'd also like to know which of his friends are saying these things, because I've met most of his friends, but he won't tell me.My questions are:How do I get him to stop caring?Should I continue to make a big deal over finding out exactly who said those things?Should I let him know how much those statements he made hurt me personally?
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 November 2009): Sweetheart, please consult the IVY League bloggers to find out how a real man is supposed to treat a woman regardless of race. You have a loser who will only bring you down. What a horrible thing to say or imply that you are the as close to white as he could get. Then he needs to go and get a white chica. A few of these posters who responded got it right. Drop him or drop your self esteem honey.The grand dame of black female interracial relationships is Evia Moore at www.blackfemaleinterracialmarriage.com Sara has a post up at her Interracial Love and Spice blog right now. http://interracialloveandspicebysara.blogspot.com/2009/11/is-he-looking-for-true-love-or.htmlCW at Black Women Deserve Better has your back.http://thecwexperience.wordpress.com/A young 20 some Velour is the newest Ivy League IR blogger on the scene who you may understand more. They will all reach out to you directly and I do suggest you write to her right away. http://www.interracialblackwomen.blogspot.com/A reall man who has your best interest at heart would tell his so called friends and family that you are the light of his life and if they didn't like you, they don't like him. A real man would do this and you would not have to ask. You have to know how to vet your man honey. Dump this loser, move on and look forward to the man who will die for you. All this guy knows how to do is get drunk and whine. He is spineless and you can do better. You deserve better. Look at the age difference. He should know better at his age and if you stay with him, you will only be asking for trouble. It may hurt a little, but dump him and cut off communication. The world is full of wonderful men of all races who will love and respect you. If you prefer white men, then get one who will love, honor and cherish everything about you. One visit to Evia's site will show this to be true. The other sites also back this up. Please take the time and visit. Do yourself and your self esteem a favor and lose the loser!
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 September 2009): Hey,Well i thought i would answer this because i can relate, i am half white and half black, I only date white men its just a personal prefrence and the majority of my ex boyfriends friends have been all white, The usuall i got was oh your the coolest black chick i have ever met or wow you don't act like black people also damn you have big lips and they would make comments to my ex's like how's things on the dark choclate side, it really botherd me and my ex boyfriend's would also make comments and i would constantly remind them WELL i am half white and that all black people aren't the same.Honestly many people are ignorant and don't understand what they are saying is hurtfull or wrong.I would mension something to him if he doesn't see a problem with it, then there isnt much you can do and for his friends they are just ignorant ignore it if you can, if you can't just be straight up with them then maybe they will not be so rude.
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reader, chloebabeechick +, writes (4 September 2009):
chloebabeechick is verified as being by the original poster of the question All 'advice' must be taken in light of the adviser's world view and frame of reference. It is common for people to frame their own reference as universal to give them an air of veracity. It is the job of the advisee to suss this out. Obviously if one is going to suggest that I'm a prejudiced individual, that is a serious charge that'd better be backed with some merit. When accusations are thrown out sans rationale they should be questioned.To give a good parallel, imagine if I discussed the same matter with the races reversed. Mind you I'm not soliciting the rationale of my bf's friends, just him (because as I said, I'm not dating them I'm dating him). Imagine if someone responded with a lengthy treatise on why blacks have reason to be prejudiced against whites, with their own personal experience thrown in. Not only is said commentary highly irrelevant, I'd question the poster's motive for entering said commentary at all, presuming we are both coming from the same mindset of the unacceptability of racism. Everything has to pass the smell test. What a lengthy dissertation on affirmative action and 'quotas' would have to do with a discussion about why my boyfriend doesn't address the situation with the premise that such commentary to begin with should not be entertained is a very interesting question. And no, the answer is not that I don't understand because I'm prejudiced against whites, like the poster suggested. ;)
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 September 2009): HI chloebabeechick,On thing that is coming across from you is your POOR attitude. The lady who has replied extensively has tried to HELP you, she isn't doing it so that you can wantonly make accusations as to her intentions. She is trying to sort of make a world for the frame of mind of your boyfriend's friends and his POOR reaction.I still stand by the fact that I think it is a BIG deal because as you've realized, he isn't defending you but is making excuses for you, which is terrible. The ideal response from him would be to tell you that he doesn't care what color your skin is but that he loves you for you as a lovely person. He should also tell his friends adamantly that they are sounding racist and to grow up and stop talking about the color of your skin and perhaps make an example of one of them by delving into their background and start criticizing, as an example, one attribute about their heritage that would sound racist if it were discussed as you have been.Once again, anyone that bothers to help you should not be attacked. You should humbly thank them and make your point without sounding mean. If the lady wanted to frame her answer about race relations it is because she thought that would help you realize where his ignorant friends are coming from in their racist tone. She certainly isn't defending them because she said that what they said was poor.
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reader, chloebabeechick +, writes (3 September 2009):
chloebabeechick is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYou have not helped me to see why my boyfriend is saying these things or handling this situation in this manner, all you've discussed is why 'white people' (I guess code word for you) feel resentment against black people. I bet if I were to sit down with him and really talk about this matter, mentions of affirmative action and 'quotas' wouldn't even begin to enter the discussion. To insinuate such is ludicrous and just gives me a window into your own racial obsessions.And explain exactly how I am prejudiced? That's right, you won't, instead you'll throw out vague, baseless insinuations only tangentially related (if at all) to the subject, again, because of your own obsessions regarding race relations.I'd bet if I laid out a scenario talking about my boss looking at me funny when I did something wrong, you'd scream out, "Is he white? Yeah, that's what white people have to do because black people whine so much and get everything handed to them!" Funny parallel, but remarkably similar to what's going on right now. And I'd be just as puzzled as I am now.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 September 2009): All I can say lady is that it is impossible for you to even comtemplate the other persons view of things or to think in different terms about this subject.
Have you ever done the trick where someone draws a three dimensional box on sheet of paper? If you focus on the drawing, one side of the box will appear to be at the forefront....but if you shift your focus a different side of the box will be at the forefront.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to see the other persons view of things if you only focus on your own.
This concept, and I am speaking in concepts is impossible for you to get, you aren't thinking about this at all, you are very prejudiced yourself and you can't see it. I hope you work it all out, but I am finished trying to help you to think.
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reader, chloebabeechick +, writes (3 September 2009):
chloebabeechick is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Like I said we get weary, and I am weary of this question, I am trying to explain why some white people make fun of black people, it isn't as malicious as you think it is, it is because we get tired of always having to walk on egg shells around blacks who don't like us or don't give us the benefit of the doubt."
Basically, you are speaking for all whites and justifying people who choose to mock black people for whatever reason. I still do not see what people being bitter over AA have do with someone harassing my boyfriend for dating a black woman. Seriously. Again, it seems that on account of your own issues, you are minimizing this incident...thanks for making that abundantly clear.
"I have a best friend who is a black male, his great grandmother was a slave, and he loves me to death and I love him and he gets it, but then his great grandfather was a white man, maybe that makes him more sympathetic."
Again, what has this have anything to do with my inquiry? Also, I have significant amounts of Caucasian heritage myself, what exactly does 'he get'?
"If you want to have an axe to grind with your white boyfriend then go for it, but I was trying to explain to you what he is up against with his friends and what his comments mean to him, if you perceive them differently then it is your job to make him see your point of view, but don't hang him on a cross because he is who he is, he didn't do that to you I don't believe."
Suggesting that I have an axe to grind with my 'white boyfriend' makes it seems like it is on account of the fact that he's white, is that what you are attempting to insinuate? How laughable.
Again, I think it's your own issues with race relations that are clouding your judgment and making something seem like what it isn't. Who is talking about hanging my boyfriend on a cross for 'who he is'? What does that mean? All our natures are malleable, we change things about our nature that are insensitive and inconsiderate of others. This is something in his that he needs to change.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 September 2009): Personally, I think you need to break up with him, this will never work, neither one of you are right for each other it is plain as the nose on your face, now that I see the depth of your resentment.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 September 2009): Like I said we get weary, and I am weary of this question, I am trying to explain why some white people make fun of black people, it isn't as malicious as you think it is, it is because we get tired of always having to walk on egg shells around blacks who don't like us or don't give us the benefit of the doubt.
I have a best friend who is a black male, his great grandmother was a slave, and he loves me to death and I love him and he gets it, but then his great grandfather was a white man, maybe that makes him more sympathetic.
If you want to have an axe to grind with your white boyfriend then go for it, but I was trying to explain to you what he is up against with his friends and what his comments mean to him, if you perceive them differently then it is your job to make him see your point of view, but don't hang him on a cross because he is who he is, he didn't do that to you I don't believe.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 September 2009): I'm a white man, and, yeah, affirmative action has absolutely nothing to do with this question.Your boyfriend might be trying to (awkwardly, for certain) make you feel better about his friends' teasing -- they make jokes about him preferring black women, and he may think, "if I tell her I'm NOT attracted to her because of any preference for black women, then she won't feel bad about their jokes".Really, what his friends think isn't the problem, you need to talk to him and make sure he is comfortable dating you. If he isn't, do you want to be in a relationship with someone who makes excuses for the fact that he wants to be with you?
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reader, chloebabeechick +, writes (3 September 2009):
chloebabeechick is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Sometimes us white folks get a bit weary of African Americans making such a big deal about their being black, about how they are so sensitive over any form of a description that they can perceive as racism and a slight that is pointed at them. It is this weariness that some white Americans say stupid things in defense of their own race out of frustration that White Americans are living today are not responsible for what happened in American history that led to slavery and all those things that Black Americans had to live through and overcome to enjoy the freedoms that they have now, as well as some of the special treatment that they receive due to Affirmative Action and Quotas in our colleges admissions and so forth."
What does THIS have to do with anything?
Maybe you are trying to minimize the issue because perhaps you have your own axe to grind/soapbox to stand on?
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 September 2009): As a white woman who has never dated out of her race, but has close friends who are black males, I think you are blowing this out of proportion and you are not looking at his comments through his frame of reference. Everyone of us looks at people and life through our own filters.
Sometimes us white folks get a bit weary of African Americans making such a big deal about their being black, about how they are so sensitive over any form of a description that they can perceive as racism and a slight that is pointed at them. It is this weariness that some white Americans say stupid things in defense of their own race out of frustration that White Americans are living today are not responsible for what happened in American history that led to slavery and all those things that Black Americans had to live through and overcome to enjoy the freedoms that they have now, as well as some of the special treatment that they receive due to Affirmative Action and Quotas in our colleges admissions and so forth.
I am from German heritage, as well as American Indian. My American Indian ancestors, made themselves look white so that they could be given farm land during the depression era in Kansas, as Indians were not eligible. My German Great Grandfather did not speak English, and there was a lot of prejudice in America against Germans due to Hitler and the Nazis....so my Ancestors had to deal with their fair share of racism and prejuidice, this isn't strictly a Black American problem.
That is a completely different topic and discussion and I am not wanting to go off in a ditch, but I am just trying to explain what I think goes on with this kind of bar room talk among men.
The bottom line really is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what he is doing is describing the differences between people, between some black features as opposed to your features and what he is attracted to and what he is not, and why does this make him a person who is uncomfortable with dating outside of his race when he is trying to describe why he is attracted to you? I agree his comments could be perceived as insensitive to your feelings, but I guess being a white guy, he just doesn't think that it would be an insult to you because he is describing differences, and that is it.
Your race doesn't matter to him, your attractiveness does (and let's be honest, that is what men compete with other men about their date's attractiveness... men of all races do this when they think about women), He prefers more mainstream caucasian features and so do I, I am white, that is what I was raised around. Often we are attracted to people at a subconcious level because certain features remind us of the people who cared for us in infancy through childhood, these images are imprinted in our consciousness, it has nothing to do with choosing one race over another, really, it is what it is.
No one can say that just because certain issues are important to you that they would be important to another, you do have a responsibility for your own feelings, no one can make you feel a certain way. If you don't like what he said to you, then tell him why, tell him you don't agree with his statements, but my thinking is that he is with you because he loves you for you, because he finds you attractive and it doesn't matter to him your race, it does matter to him that his friends are giving him a hard time and he is defending you in the way he knows how to get it accross to their level of understanding, not yours.
I hope that makes sense.
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reader, chloebabeechick +, writes (2 September 2009):
chloebabeechick is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Think of it this way -- I live in a gray house, and I've always been very self-conscious about my short legs. Someone making fun of me for living in a gray house would have no effect on me, because it's not something I really care about, but a comment about my legs will stick in my head for days, because it's something I'm already not comfortable with."I most certainly feel that this is true! And likely he's not entirely comfortable with the race issue, yet. Hopefully, this is something that will ameliorate itself with time? And when his friends realize I'm not going anywhere?"You say that his own statements hurt your feelings -- you should definitely let him know this, because it has a much stronger impact on your relationship than anything his friends think or say!"And that's the issue really, what his friends are saying plays a far distant second to his reactions, what he himself is saying, and how he is dealing with the whole matter. I'm dating him, not his friends. It's his job to make me feel secure.
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reader, chloebabeechick +, writes (2 September 2009):
chloebabeechick is verified as being by the original poster of the questionActually, it is a big deal, because he isn't 'backing me up', he feels the need to let them know that he's not typically attracted to black women (why would he care if they thought he was?), and he feels the need to convince them of my 'whiteness'. Like being attracted to black women is something to be ashamed and defensive about? Also the lips and nose comments were just uncalled for. Why would he want his black girlfriend to think he views most black women with disgust? It's not going to make me feel like he finds me sexy and beautiful, it's going to make me feel like, oh well I guess he deigned to look at me. He's said before that I have 'white features' like it's supposed to be a compliment. It's very disconcerting.
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reader, anonymous, writes (2 September 2009): As a non-white woman who has dated white men, I understand that it's difficult to know exactly how to deal with the racial issue while acknowledging it exists. I would never want a man to say he is dating me in spite of my ethnicity, but the idea of someone being interested in me entirely because of my ethnicity is pretty gross, too.But I don't know if you can get him to stop caring; the fact that he considers you acceptable because your features aren't stereotypically black (and drunkenness is not an excuse, IMO; I have been drunk PLENTY of times and never said anything I wouldn't have meant sober) is a major sign that he isn't entirely comfortable with being in an interracial relationship, let alone ignoring what his friends think. I believe that if he didn't have any concerns about dating someone outside of his race, he would have no problem ignoring his friends' teasing -- so the only way to get him to stop caring what his friends say is to make him stop caring that he's in an interracial relationship. Think of it this way -- I live in a gray house, and I've always been very self-conscious about my short legs. Someone making fun of me for living in a gray house would have no effect on me, because it's not something I really care about, but a comment about my legs will stick in my head for days, because it's something I'm already not comfortable with.You say that his own statements hurt your feelings -- you should definitely let him know this, because it has a much stronger impact on your relationship than anything his friends think or say! And if he can't realize that he's messing up a good thing with his ridiculous insecurities, you're certainly better off without him.
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reader, anonymous, writes (2 September 2009): Comment on the "it is a big deal"
No, it isn't, and how can their skin color not be talked about or ignored.....the two of you are not responsible for the ignorance or carelessness or prejuidice of other people, but you are responsible about how the two of you will handle it if faced with all of that.
You don't think Demi Moore and Ashton Cutcher ever got a bunch of crap over their 17 year age gap, and the two of them never even talked about that with each other....sounds romantic, but it is unrealistic and naive.
It is a Big Deal, only if you make it a Big Deal and allow his friend's ignorant remarks come between you. He is backing her up, he can do better, but this is the first time he has had to deal with it and he will figure out better ways to handle it, instead of getting down on their level to avoid losing them as friends, he needs to put up his boundaries with them that they will not cross again, and I am sure he will....
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): It is a BIG deal.He is being immature or IS immature. He needs to back you up 100% and dump his loser friends who are immature and somewhat racist. I say somewhat because I don't think they really know what they are doing.You should be prepared to dump this so-called boyfriend of yours if he doesn't respect you.Your skin color should not even be a factor that is acknowledged. You shouldn't be thinking about the color of your skin at all.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): You can't get him to stop caring, the only person you have any control over is you.
It sounds like your boyfriend is trying to stand up to his friends, but not very effectitvely, he is getting "defensive" with them instead of just sticking up for himself by telling them they are a bunch of assholes.
Men usually tell each other to f off when they are mad and they are still friends the next day.
It is obviously getting to him a little bit about whether or not he can deal with outside pressure from his family and friends about dating outside his race. I don't think this makes him a racist or even a bad person. Many blacks feel the same way about dating or marrying outside their race. Some of us just want to feel proud of our heritage and it is a strong part of our identity.
The fact that both of you see love as colorblind is a rare and wonderful thing. But you both are going to have to have a conversation about how to deal because you will get push back from outsiders on occassion. I dated a man 15 years my junior and I got some looks and comments, too and some strangers asked me if I was his mother right in front of us, we just kind of laughed, and hugged each other and I said, NO, no I'm not. I also don't look like his Mom, but I am obviously older than he is by quite a bit.
So, don't let it get to you, if you really love this guy work it out how you both will handle it together, maybe just shrug it off like I did, the bigger deal you make out of it will just lead to you getting your feelings hurt.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): You can't get him to stop caring, the only person you have any control over is you.
It sounds like your boyfriend is trying to stand up to his friends, but not very effectitvely, he is getting "defensive" with them instead of just sticking up for himself by telling them they are a bunch of assholes.
Men usually tell each other to f off when they are mad and they are still friends the next day.
It is obviously getting to him a little bit about whether or not he can deal with outside pressure from his family and friends about dating outside his race. I don't think this makes him a racist or even a bad person. Many blacks feel the same way about dating or marrying outside their race. Some of us just want to feel proud of our herita
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): I personallly would get rid of him straight away,. This is obviousy at the forefront of his mind most of the time. How offensive and patronising. Your self esteem is going to takae a hard beating if you saty with this mixed up, ignorant 'man.'
Have some pride in youself and get out of it.
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reader, chloebabeechick +, writes (1 September 2009):
chloebabeechick is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI should mention, he is seven years my senior, I'm 23, he's 30, and his friends are all 30+.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): I think you should tell him that the statements being made by his friends are hurtful and that he really should explain to his friends that he cares for you and what hurts you hurts him. He should do that one-on-one with his friends, not collectively drunk at a bar where they aren't thinking rationally and blurt out stupid immature comments.
It is only natural that he cares what his peers think. It is the basis of being human. It's that group mentality we all share. We need to feel accepted in our own little click. Think about it.. even though we grow up and move out of our parents homes, deep down we still care what mom and dad think about how we are leading our lives. It's hard to fight that need.
You need to take the high road and not get mad and go back at his friends. It sounds like they are just being dumb boys. Yes... "men" in their 20's are still boys and act juvenile and often say hurtful things.
You sound like a very sweet and personable girl and if all of his friends got to know you as you are, then they should (perhaps I am giving them too much credit) like you too. You just need to win them over. When you become a real person with real feelings to them they should back off and stop the stupid comments.
Try to get your boyfriend to invite his friends out with you both one at a time. Perhaps dinner at your place or a restaurant where you can talk. Avoid the group dynamic and mentality. You need one on one time with each of his friends. That is your opportunity to show how personable you are and they should then see why their friend finds you attractive.
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