A
male
age
30-35,
*edroute1
writes:I have never been the jealous type and I am not sure I would define what I feel as jealousy. My new girlfriend sexual past is really affecting me. I have had quite a few girlfriends in my life and never felt anything like this before. Not even close. I think I just love her so much that the thought of her with someone else hurts. We only talked about our pasts once and it has not come up since. I never say a word about my hurt. The truth is I rarely feel hurt when I am with her,, but when we are apart it hurts the most. Now, I am not insecure at all. I know what I am and what bring to a relationship. I am certainly not jealous of other men, trust me on this. But here is the thing...my girlfriend has never been in a relationship before. Never had a boyfriend. She dated 4 guys, but they were all fwb. I think she has only had sex like 50 times in her whole life. She describes it as a series of ONS with the same guy. They would go to very, cheap motels for sex. She never brought them to her house Only the motels. She cried a little when she told me. I think it hurt her. She is honest with me and I 100% believe her. No trust issues at all. The problem I have is...I have had a few girlfriends, but never ONS. I am fairly traditional and believe in committed relationships before sex. She says she believe the same way I believe now and would not do FWB again. I totally believe her. The problem I have is I don't respect ONS's at all. No moral judgments, just not for me. They have always been a big red flag for me and I normally would just drop any idea of a relationship. I just love this girl...so I have been moving on with her enduring the bit of pain I feel. I just can't seem to shake the nagging feeling of disrespect I feel for that small part of her life. Now ....I have met a very nice girl whom I am strictly friends with. I never flirt with her, 100% platonic. We discussed the topic of dating and she sees dating the same way I do. This got me thinking....if I met a girl like my girlfriend.... all things the same except instead 4 ONS-type relationships she only had committed relationships would it change how I felt? Would I prefer her over my GF just because of her sexual past? What do you think? Do sexual pasts matter in the long run? Thanks for any thoughtful comments!S
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male
reader, aresu  +, writes (24 August 2012):
 couldnt have said it better than the last anon answer
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (22 August 2012): "if I met a girl like my girlfriend.... all things the same except instead 4 ONS-type relationships she only had committed relationships would it change how I felt?"From what you've posted, probably yes. The issue would not exist, and this would change how you feel."Would I prefer her over my GF just because of her sexual past? What do you think?"From what you've posted, I do think you'd prefer her or someone like her over your girlfriend. It's just one less issue to deal with. People will say it shouldn't matter, and that you should change yourself so you view things in the same way they do. But, that's not an answer to your question."Do sexual pasts matter in the long run?"For some people it does, for others it doesn't. There's no "right" answer that covers all people and all situations. If it's an issue for you now, it sounds like it could matter to you, but it's difficult to predict someone else's future feelings. Once again, a lot of people say it shouldn't matter, but that's not an answer to your question. Judging by the number of posts on this website, it does matter to a lot of people.If you are not attracted to a certain type of woman (e.g. very talkative or very quiet) it might be "your" issue in the sense that there's nothing wrong with certain types of women and you can't change the woman, but it doesn't mean you'd be happy in a relationship with someone like that.Odds are your GF will be happier in a relationship with someone who doesn't care about such things, and odds are you'd be happier in a relationship where it wasn't an issue for you.
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male
reader, Yos  +, writes (22 August 2012):
 I would suggest evaluating someone on how they are now.
Nearly all of the wisest, strongest, most loving and most faithful people I know are like that because they've been through very difficult experiences and learned a lot in the process. Adversity can breed great strength of character.
We are who we are because of our pasts. But we are not our pasts.
To answer directly: we all judge somewhat based on someone's past. But the less you judge people and the more you can accept them for who they are now the happier you will be. That doesn't mean that you should accept everything in a relationship. It just means that if they appear to be the right person for you now, in this moment of time, then the past really doesn't matter.
Best wishes
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (21 August 2012): "Be aware however that it will strongly limit your choices in a partner."
I just think this is flat out wrong. Most girls are not promiscuous, believe it or not. The average girl has 3 -5 sex partners in a life time. This average also includes adding in promiscuous women who skew the average upwards.
To op..if you can't handle 3-5 then you are psychotic.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (21 August 2012):
 IF their sexual past bothers you then yes it’s a good point in the vetting process. Be aware however that it will strongly limit your choices in a partner.
I came from an open marriage. I have had more sexual partners than many of our posters combined will ever have in their life time. Has it impacted who I am now? I don’t think so. I am currently the one in our relationships that wishes monogamy…
Yes our past influences our current behavior and lives. I can understand that. I would not at my age judge someone for their past. IF it bothers you, then by all means seek out a partner that meets your criteria.
Just be prepared to accept the limitations and not whine about how there are no good women out there…
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male
reader, redroute1 +, writes (21 August 2012):
redroute1 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYos- I want to thank you. I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to respond and making some very excellent points. I could not agree more on this point: once the decision to be with someone is made, accept them and pursue happiness. Don’t dwell on topics that exalt bitterness and divide.
But what I am talking about is vetting a partner for a marriage or LTR. I am NOT feeling jealousy. I hope you can trust me on this, it doesn’t seem like you understand this. I am evaluating whether or not a person’s sexual past is a viable reason to reject someone when selecting a mate, especially when it is or seems incompatible with your own. It seems like this is such a taboo subject.
How much do a person’s past actions determine who they are now? Is judging someone based on their past inherently wrong? In particular, what weight should a person’s sexual past be criteria for choosing a long term committed relationship, to include marriage? If we are a sum total of our experiences, the why not use the sum total of our experience (to include ones sexual past) in the calculus of choosing a mate?
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male
reader, Yos +, writes (16 August 2012):
"I am not a woman, so I don’t really know how woman view FWB and ONS, but from my experience most woman seem to feel ashamed of ONS and FWB. Most women I know are embarrassed to admit to them. There are, of course, exceptions, but not many; at least not what I have observed."
Women can be embarrassed to admit them to men because they fear being judged: just as you are judging now. To other women, and to men they know will not judge them, they will usually openly admit to ONS and FWB. That doesn't mean they are glad all of them happened, certainly there can be regrets, but many women who have had one night stands have had some enjoyable ones and have no shame about that. Nor should they.
The rest of your argument I can perhaps summarise as this:
- I believe casual sex to be wrong. I don't respect people who engage in casual sex.
- Many men do engage in casual sex: I'm not close with men like that. But I believe I am 'better than them'.
- Some of this behaviour is down to genetics: it's programmed in our DNA.
What you are saying makes sense. I used to believe it myself. I clung to the idea that casual sex was in some sense wrong: either morally or physically or psychologically. I wasn't really certain of which! But it had to be at least one because my emotions were so negative towards it. I felt terrible, there had to be a 'proper reason'. My brain worked overdrive to come up with reasonable sounding reasons why I was 'right' to feel how I was feeling.
Then I realised that these feelings were not making me happy. They were causing me pain and had turned me into the kind of man I didn't want to be.
I can tell you what I believe now:
- I believe casual sex is perfectly healthy as long as it's done honestly and with positive emotions and intentions. Casual sex can be good or bad, just like relationship sex. Casual sex does not 'leave a mark' or damage a person. Having casual sex does not make them less able to have 'relationship sex' or be in an intimate loving relationship. I accepted this because looking at the world through unbiased eyes it is clearly true. I know many people with promiscuous pasts who now have wonderful marriages and families, and many people with chaste pasts that have struggled to create intimate loving relationships. Reality forced me to re-evaluate my beliefs.
- Many men do engage in casual sex. They tend to be confident men who can 'get the girl'. These men rarely suffer from retroactive jealousy. The men who can't so easily 'get the girl' secretly wish they could but lack the confidence to do it. To justify this 'failure' they unconsciously rationalise this as 'having better morals' and 'being a better mate' so they can feel better about themselves. If you can't join them, beat (up on) them…
Moral judgment enables us to place ourselves above other people and regain some of our self-esteem. If a man cannot offer 'alpha male' characteristics: power, confidence, physical prowess. then he has to try to offer something else: 'reliability, a safe place, gentleness, etc'. The irony being many of these 'nice-guys' turn out to be far from 'safe' since they have not reconciled their resentment of those more 'successful' in the mating game than themselves. In other words: nice guys often resent coming last, and can take that resentment out on their partner, including via retroactive jealousy. Nice guys also hate to admit any of this as it breaks the nice guy myth that we ourselves cling to and use as our mating strategy.
For me, part of overcoming retroactive jealousy meant letting go of my various regrets around lack of sexual confidence early on in my life, and accepting my hidden resentment of men who had been more successful than me in that regard.
- Much of this behaviour is down to genetics. But our DNA makes no claims about what is right or wrong, it only propels our actions through emotions and instincts. DNA has no moral compass. Our DNA is not acting in our best interests, but rather blindly propagating or not based on the reproductive success of it's encoded program. DNA has no plan or purpose: it's only a description of a collection of behaviours that make up a human being.
Casual sex is very much within our genetic program, and so is jealousy, judgment and hostility. The question is, do you want to blindly execute your genetic program or would you prefer to understand why it compels you to behave certain ways and to ignore it when those instructions are not in the interests of your happiness? As rational beings we have the incredible ability to learn why we are the way we are, then change how we behave.
Here's a thought for you: happiness is not a zero sum game. For you to be happy other's don't have to be unhappy. Right now as you read this millions of people are engaging is enjoyable, consensual, casual sex. See if you can be happy about that: and wish them the best. After all, for you to be happy they don't need to be unhappy.
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reader, redroute1 +, writes (15 August 2012):
redroute1 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWow I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful responses. I do realize that this is MY issue, which is why I have never spoken to her about it and probably won’t. I would never want her to feel bad or guilty. I love her. I chose to post here because I really like the well thought out responses and I want to address this on my own.
Just for the record I absolutely don't think my gf was a slut or anything like that for experimenting. I am not even suggesting that she made a “mistake”. For my part, as I stated in the post, it is just a nagging wish that she had chosen differently, even for her own peace of mind. I have always treated her with dignity and respect and she knows nothing of my little nagging pain.
I don’t think it is jealousy, but maybe I am wrong. I do not think these men hold a special place in her heart. I don’t envy them or feel they might have some edge on me in the sack. I am very confident in myself. I have never had an issue with self-esteem and I think I would do myself a disservice by treating this as jealousy. Though having read many of the links provided here, I do exhibit some of the precursors.
I will try my best to explain myself openly for your understanding and possible responses, but I think it will best demonstrate the real crux of my issue. I am a straight man. I am sexually attracted to women especially my girlfriend. On the other hand, I don’t find men sexually attractive at all and I think a naked man is very unattractive indeed. In fact, I find it borderline revolting. I, of course, don’t mind my own naked from, lol. I don’t watch porn because I just don’t like looking at naked men or watching them money shot all over the place. It does nothing for me (lesbian porn on the other hand….. ). With that said, of course I don’t like the thought of the woman I love having sex with other men, but if she loved them then it is completely understandable and I really don’t feel negative about it. Here is a stark difference for me, if it is a ONS or FWB and the relationship is just about sex then it is something that frankly I find very unappealing and a little gross, kind of like a porn movie. The thought of some guy, who doesn’t love my girl and doesn’t have her best interest at heart, having sex with her, is not something I am ok with. If you can’t understand that then really we have no common point of reference. I have been around men my whole life (sports, military). A large majority of men, in the simplest form, are fundamentally territorial and egocentric by nature. It is built into the DNA. A large portion of men who engage in FWB and ONS just want to leave their mark…they really don’t care how a girl feels. They only want to please a girl, not so that the girl feels pleasure, but so that it feeds their own male ego. They care about marking girls as a conquest, a kind of sexual “been there done that”. The only pride they feel is that they were able to get a girl in the sack. Then they move on. I am not close friends with men like this because I have seen way too many girls hurt by these types of men. Maybe it is a little “holier than thou”, but I believe I am a better potential mate than many of those types of men.
I am not a woman, so I don’t really know how woman view FWB and ONS, but from my experience most woman seem to feel ashamed of ONS and FWB. Most women I know are embarrassed to admit to them. There are, of course, exceptions, but not many; at least not what I have observed.
Now, I will try to explain briefly why I don’t respect ONS or FWB. I view sex in a very special light. I think that people are messing with fire when they do ONS or FWB. From my experience and yes there are always exceptions, but the vast majority of ONS and FWB do absolutely nothing beneficial. They actually turn out to be very negative experiences for most of the people I have met. I have seen it so many times, girls and sometimes guys have a ONS or FWB and they misread their own emotions and get really hurt. Sex is so tied to emotions. Sex is clearly made for mating and not for recreation, in my most humble opinion. There are a lot of emotions and hormonal connections that are inherent in our DNA with regards to sex. I think right now in our culture, sex has morphed into a recreational activity and a lot of people fall for it and end up getting really hurt. I think this is at the heart of what bothers me. Perhaps I must reevaluate my own position and I would love to hear as many view points as I can. IMHO, ONS and FWB should not be treated like a recreation or a recreational drug. I have no problem about someone engaging in recreational sex, at all. It is just not for me and not my style. If it their type of lifestyle then I sincerely hope they have fun, but I don’t want to hear complaints about STD’s. Don’t complain about being hurt by people who play you, don’t complain about unwanted pregnancies or abortions. They are all possible consequences of that form of recreation. People are playing with fire and 8-9 times out of 10 someone will get burned, at least that is what I have seen. One can get some STD’s even while wearing a condom…a simple fluid transfer can devastate a person’s life. I simply can’t respect people that play loose and fast with sex as recreation, too many bad things can happen and too many people inevitably get hurt. That lifestyle is just not for me. My happiness will never come from those types of experiences and I want a partner who views sex the same way as I do. It is a simple matter of sexual compatibility. I will always be reasonably judgmental with regards to my mates. I will also stand and be judged by them and let the chips fall where they may. We will be spending the rest of our lives together.
I also think the comments like, “the past is the past” are counterproductive; while I agree you can’t change the past, you can only truly understand someone by learning their past. So, to rephrase my original question, how much of a person’s past actions determine who they are? And, how can knowing their past give insights to the future? Is judging someone’s past inherently wrong?
Do you judge who you are going to vote for in the upcoming election? Why is it ok to judge a candidate for office, but not your girl/boy friend to determine if he/she is the right person for you?
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male
reader, Yos +, writes (15 August 2012):
My girlfriend describes me as her first real boyfriend and our relationship as her first real relationship. We are both in our thirties.
I regard this as a great privilege and honour. That I am the man that she was finally willing to give herself to, to commit to. I mean more to her than any man that came before. That is something I'm proud of, not unhappy about.
I get the respect of men that know her for this too, not ridicule. They want to meet me to meet 'the guy that finally won her heart'.
I suggest watching the film Sexy Beast. It's not about retroactive jealousy but the main characters wife is a former porn actress. His enemy in the film tries to use this against him to hurt him. But fails. The portrayal of the main character's love for his wife is wonderful: he accepts her past and loves her unconditionally. If you watch the film ask yourself something at the end: 'do i respect the main character?'. The answer will be... yes of course. You'll find that you don't disrespect the man for his choice of wife, but rather admire him for his strength, conviction and warmth.
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reader, JustHelpinAgain  +, writes (15 August 2012):
OP I think the answer to your question has to be yes. But does that help you with your current predicament? Women often describe failed attempts at relationships as a ONS becauce it makes the guy in question less important. It doesnt sound like your gf was out looking for a quickie - the tears give away some old pain. If her past has no negative impact then you really have nothing to work yourself up about - in fact it has helped her realise how good you are and how much she loves you, dont wreck it. Cut her some slack and realise you might have done the same had you been her. What you feel is pretty normal, bit like discovering santa doesnt exist. Many people, yes women too, suffer this pain. Me too. It can only happen, I think, when you really love someone and the thouht of the person you love being used and hurt buy peole that didnt deserve her.You have to work hard not to obsess and instead channel the energy into positive actions. Eg. Plan a date, trip, surprise for her, write her, buy soher something special - get married! Good luck.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (14 August 2012):
 Look at Yos' answer for this:
http://www.dearcupid.org/question/cant-deal-with-her-past---should.html
He essentially says that you have to realize this is your issue, not hers. You have to make the decision to get past this. You can, of course, choose to leave her over this. However, retroactive jealousy is a state of being that will seep into all of your relationships until you deal with it. It's very easy to say, "Oh it's just this ONE sex thing, if I can find a woman who doesn't have it, then I will be fine." But that's just not how it works. No matter who it is, you will find things to feel jealous about even if it's just having a lengthy or strong crush on someone. Trust me on this, I've experienced it before. But before it could get too far I made the decision to get past it and I did.
Read Yos' post I linked to, and then read through his older posts. He's the most knowledgeable on this site I believe. I am stealing his last line because it's so dead-on:
"Do you want to be an unhappy bitter man who clings to beliefs that drag you down? Or would you like to be free?"
It's up to you.
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female
reader, Ciar +, writes (14 August 2012):
 OP, I owe you an apology. I misread the latter part of your question to mean that you have a woman friend lined up to replace your girlfriend. That wasn't what you said at all.
Mea culpa.
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male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (14 August 2012):
 The entire content of your submittal is summed up in these two sentences: "No moral judgments, just not for me. They have always been a big red flag for me and I normally would just drop any idea of a relationship."As I see it.... YOU are quite "holier than thou"... and any girl who doesn't measure up to our lofty standards is a tart.... and isn't worthy of you....IF/WHEN you ever come down from your lofty throne, then you can spend time with girls who may have had less-then-stellar pasts. Until then, you have to find virtuous/virginal ones who will meet your standards...Good luck....
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 August 2012):
"What about your men friends? Do you know their sexual histories? If it's important to you that those in your circle share your lifestyle and philosophy then why have you not screened them?"
Bullshit.
What people want in a significant other is a different thing from what we want in a friend. The priorities and standards are different. And that is okay.
Do you demand that your friends have all the traits that make them marriage material, sexual attractive to you (your type), being the kind of person you can live with all the time yourself, etc?
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female
reader, Ciar +, writes (14 August 2012):
The question is whether you should give up one for the other. Both are good but the new friend might be better.
Besides her philosophy about sex what do you actually know of her past? Many women who share your views came to them after making all those mistakes you disrespect. How do you know your new friend hasn't as well?
How do you know she hasn't succumbed to pressure once or twice despite her views? If she has, she's hardly going to tell you until she feels more comfortable, but by then you'd have already invested yourself emotionally.
What would you think if you discovered your girlfriend was harbouring her own doubts about you? And she was secretly considering a replacement and had a potential suitor lined up?
What about your men friends? Do you know their sexual histories? If it's important to you that those in your circle share your lifestyle and philosophy then why have you not screened them?
You can't argue that this is different. Not after making a point of telling us that jealousy and lack of trust are not the issue. You're not worried that she'll go out and do it again. You said that had you known this you would not even have bothered to get to know her, so that means she wouldn't even be good enough as a friend. So....what about your men friends? Are you absolutely sure beyond the shadow of a doubt that they have never had a one night stand? If you found out today that any of them had, would you consider replacing them too?
I can't tell you what to think or feel about your girlfriend's past, but I can tell you that the past may shape us, but it does not define us.
If this isn't something you can live with comfortably, then I suggest you be honest with your girlfriend as soon as possible. Stringing someone along while you consider replacing them is worse than having a one night stand.
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reader, ChiRaven +, writes (14 August 2012):
 Based on my experience, the past matters very little. It's what the two people ARE in a relationship that matters. Unless you suspect that she is likely to carry this behavior forward into the future, it's best left in the past. Your g/f was being honest with you about who she HAS BEEN.
My late (second) wife had a really colorful past back in the 1960's. But when I met her in the early '80's she was ready to put that behind her. I was amazed, and took full advantage of, the variety of her experiences.
You might want to look into the definition of Compersion. It's the polar opposite of jealousy ... the sincere and honest happiness that comes from the knowledge that someone you love is (or was) with someone who they wanted to be with and was good for them. It is a term from the polyamory community, and I think it is a very healthy approach to sexual relations.
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reader, Hennessy1989  +, writes (14 August 2012):
 You are being a fool, u say you love this girl, why the hell should her past matter, let me tell you something, when we are young we make mistakes, we get peer pressured, we try and fit in, as we get older we mature and we look back and sometimes regret things, she clearly does, she was decent enough to be honest with you, just because she has a past that you don't like doesn't mean she deserves to be punished for it, and if your already questioning whether you would be better with this other girl, then you can't love your girlfriend that much. You clearly think a lot of yourself, and you are jealous about this, don't kid yourself, get over it fast or you will lose this girl
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (14 August 2012):
 I think you GF had ONS had less to do with actual sex, and more to do with how she saw herself. Low self esteem and low self worth. I'm guessing that she didn't think she was GF-material and therefore had repeatable ONS with the same guy because she wanted someone to want/love her too.
I think you need to understand that YOU are being judgmental. You ARE thinking you are morally superior to your GF. Ok, so you dated every girl you ever slept with, your GF didn't. You say no moral judgement.. but you ARE judging. Be honest. Own it.
People GROW, usually from making mistakes and learning form past experiences. Not saying you HAVE to have ONS's to grow, but not everyone are raised the same way, not everyone have the same level of self respect, same values, morals and so forth. OBVIOUSLY, your GF have grown a lot. And then she met you... who want to "punish" her for the mistakes she made.
Look up "uncle" YOS and his columns/posts on RJ (retrograde jealousy)
http://retroactivejealousy.blogspot.com/2011/08/retrograde-jealousy-quick-fixes.html
See if the shoe fits.
Also, the grass isn't always greener. This new NICE girl, could have worked at the Bunny Farm for all you know, maybe she is just being "smart" and not revealing her past.
However, if you can't deal with your GF and her past, you need to end it. Because it's NOT fair on her at all, you are already looking to replace her. That ain't love.
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 August 2012): To me, yes, they matter. I can't respect someone who has casual sex. I can be their friend, I can offer advice and guidance but I would never consider them relationship or marriage material no matter how much they swear they've changed. People can use all the excuses they want but in the end it's their previous actions that matter.
Once you meet a girl who is against casual sex you will realize that you were settling for less before you met her. Because the truth here is that it bothers you but you overlook it because you think that what you're looking for doesn't exist.
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reader, Serpico +, writes (14 August 2012):
What you have is something called retroactive jealousy, and it effects many men, and some women. There is nothing abnormal about it at all, its simply a relic of our evolution that is inconvenient in todays society.
This is something that I have struggled with in the past myself, plenty. What I can tell you is this -
1 - Its not something you know you have until you're in the situation that you're in. Then it hits like a ton of brick.
2 - The more you care/emotionally invest in a woman, the more it will bother you.
3 - I wish I had better news, but its likely to get worse before it gets better. Its one of the most insidious things Ive ever had to deal with. Its becomes almost like your mind "enjoys/seeks the state of pain." Anyone who who has gone through this likely knows what I speak of.
4 - With the above in mind, you can stick it out, but prepare yourself for one hell of a ride. The good news is there is a lot of help on this site for many others suffering from the same thing.
5 - At the end of the day, it comes down to either sticking with it and getting through it, or leaving and finding someone with a past that you can handle. If you choose the former, I would tell you it had better be one hell of a woman, because its likely going to beat the crap out of you as you deal with it. Me, I chose the latter, and I must say Im all the happier for it. Whichever you choose, I do wish you luck.
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reader, shrodingerscat +, writes (14 August 2012):
 I found these for you. I hope this helps.
http://stephen31bkk.hubpages.com/hub/Unhealthy-Jealousy
http://www.health24.com/sex/Relationships/1253-1259-1260,18315.asp
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