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*8Reality217
writes:and obviously I include more male late bloomers than female late bloomers, as in people that are like 25+ years of age and still a virgin or never dated, never had a boyfriend/girlfriend before, because that's what it seems like from searching on this site and other forums, sites across the internet.My gut feeling tells me it is probably true for these reasons: 1. Men are still expected to be the initiators, as in make the first move, do the approaching and asking out, taking the lead, so obviously being introverted or socially-awkward, reclusive is gonna hurt your chances much more if you are a guy as compared to a girl. 2.) Women are valued for their youth more than men are, women have loads and tons of options with the opposite sex when they are young, especially starting at 18 and lasting throughout their 20's and somewhat early 30's, yes despite taking a passive role in the dating scene and having to put up with so many guys they are not attracted to trying to get them, trying to attract them, the fact they have so many options when they are young means that definetly guaranteed some of those guys that hit on them, approached and asked them out were guys in which there was mutual attraction involved, and hardcore wise they seem to have most of their options with men in the 18-25 age range, since youth indicates fertility, even if the man doesn't want to have kids, apparently men evolved through evolution to be attracted to women that had the highest potential to bear children, so it is still in his deep subconscious mind. People always argue that for every girl that has a boyfriend that guy has a girlfriend, while that does make sense, but it is common in most cases for the guy to be older than the girl, so which could possibly support my argument that its more likely for a guy to be a late bloomer in dating and relationships, sex, than it is for girls.The way I see it, is that for us guys it's literally a matter of knowing how to get a girlfriend, guys have to be the ones to learn how to get a girlfriend, girls never need to learn how to get a boyfriend since they don't have to approach and ask out, initiate anything, etc. Initiating, approaching and asking out, taking the lead, escalating is a matter of skill, although it does look like it is natural instinctive common sense for most guys to know how to get a girlfriend by the time they are in their late teens or early 20's, it's like they were born knowing how to approach and talk to women with confidence, overall attract them. It never became natural for me, maybe due to my Asperger Syndrome or due to the way I grew up in my childhood social experiences, the way my parents and family raised me, molded me, etc.So whats your take on this? more male FA's, late bloomers than the other way around?
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reader, anonymous, writes (9 September 2014): Watch that documentary on Bronies. Bronies: The Extremely Unexpected Adult Fans.
You may not be into the cartoon at all, I'm certainly not but the people who are fans of the show that are interviewed in it are very relatable in terms of social anxiety and difficulty in connecting with other people. Often bullied, have trouble even getting their parents to accept their hobby etc.
It's a good example of how there are always people out there just like us, no matter how strange our hobbies are or how difficult we find it to relate to others. For Bronies they have found a way of meeting other people who are fans who would not normally interact with others socially. It's just one example really, OP, there are a hell of a lot of ways for reclusive people to meet others through hobbies and the internet.
I have two friends who played world of warcraft for years and developed friendships in that game with people all over the world, went to meet ups and stuff, dated people both in the game and in the real world.
Common interests such as My Little Pony: Friendships is Magic or video games, collecting models, taste in music etc. are great ways to form an instant connection with someone and in those things, especially online gaming, the number of women in the hobby is balanced 50/50 or even has more of them.
Develop your passions, or find new ones and see where they take you. A shared passion means an instant connection and really opens a lot of doors. Even if it's not shared a person with a passion for something can be very appealing to others.
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reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (9 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell very glad to hear that Cereberus, makes me feel like it is not hopeless for me, now it's just a matter of keeping that negative feeling out of my head
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reader, no nonsense Aidan  +, writes (8 September 2014):
As for FAs, we’d only know this by looking in to the lives of dead people, because arguably you can’t describe some-one as such until they have lived a complete life alone. Outside of groups who practice religious celibacy such as Catholic clergy, it is very unusual for anyone to live and die a virgin, whether male or female. The very small number of people I know lived and died virgins, or at least having never been married, were all female but that’s just one person’s limited experience.
From what I’ve seen from research both in the UK and USA, there is little difference in the age for first time sex between men and women, with the average being 16 in the UK (where we have an age of consent of 16), and 17 in the USA. I think this is very hard to prove statistically but your commentary on the different challenges facing young men and women in the dating world is interesting. I think you may have underestimated how difficult it is for girls though. You eloquently describe the challenge for guys in learning to take the initiative, but make no mistake, guys are hard to read for girls. If we are talking stereotypes, I’d say that girls sometimes find it hard to understand that guys literally mean what they say. They don’t pick up subtle clues or hidden meaning in quite the same way. Their more simplistic thought patterns and their failure to always get the hint from girls can make them a bit of a mystery. Of course, as I said, I’m stereotyping, but only to show that it’s not a picnic for girls either. They have to learn to cope with male attention, and indeed to recognise when they are being flirted with and when a guy is interested. There are as many unwritten rules for women as there are for men. People, their signals, and inconsistencies, are just confusing sometimes, and that holds true for both sexes. That’s not really an answer to your question but I don’t know how we’d establish an answer. I simply think that the most important questions are to understand the experiences of men and women and better understand dating, relationships, and how we learn to be sexual beings who, with our attractions and preferences, have to navigate this confusing territory.
I wish you all the very best.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 September 2014): That's not true, OP. It doesn't take a set of skills or behaviours to find a woman it just takes determination and knowing your limitations, then tailoring your expectations to work with those and not set goals too high.
If you can talk to a person in a store about a product, or if you can talk to a work colleague about their day then you can also talk to a woman and create a connection if there's a mutual wish to.
My family member is very bad. He couldn't write something like you have here as it involves other people that he doesn't know and it would make him feel utterly and dangerously exposed. He has zero friends, as in none at all and can't actually make any either because he doesn't know how, he literally worries about every sentence he says and apologises all the time for being inappropriate when he rarely is. He's the type of person that is very unkempt and a lot of the time downright dirty and he has a walk that makes it very apparent to people that he is very different and special needs, his speech is also a dead give away as the way he talks is very unrefined and overly loud.
Thing is with me or other family that he's known all his life he's perfectly fine and can talk about anything, converse normally but he has a very strange view of the world and it centres around him.
He can't even boil an egg it makes him so anxious and he worries so much about it, but he has a degree in programming and was able to function well enough in 4 years of college to get that degree without any special help.
What I mean is in his current state he has no chance of a relationship, he can't even create a friendship or interact with people online. I'd love to find some help for him but all we have here is child educational stuff, there's just an assumption that parents will immediately help their child if he's like this but in his case they never have and buried their heads in the sand. He's early 30's too, so it makes any kind of help very difficult because he also doesn't want to be abnormal and has very little in common with people who have similar conditions because as I said intellectually he's perfectly fine and even a bit smarter than a lot of people. Most people that have his kind of issues also have a developmental issue with their intellect.
In terms of you personally no one can say except the people helping you how difficult or not it will be or what steps you can take to lessen the difficulties.
If you don't already then there are support groups and stuff people with aspergers that regularly have outings, dances and go to events and introduce them to each other.
I dated a woman with mild autism before and have friends that are that way too.
In terms of dating you just can't say what is or is not possible. The woman I dated was fine intellectually, sexually she wasn't inhibited and she was fun to be around, the only difference was that she was kind of cold, not intentionally but she just didn't empathise with people or things all that well. She wouldn't understand why something was a problem unless there was an intellectual explanation for it, something meaningless yet still emotionally upsetting like crying watching a movie she just didn't get those things or why people react like that. She was also a chronic worrier, not because she was insecure but because it was part of her condition. She had no frame of reference for a lot of the emotional reactions a person without the condition takes for granted. So she wouldn't know why something she said upset a person and that would make her worry about everything she says to some degree because it could all be upsetting to people.
OP there are just tonnes of variation to women out there that if you want to badly enough you can work towards connecting with one. Whether she too has aspergers and you met her as part of a group or whether she's someone you met at work who likes to make small talk, there's always opportunities and women just like you around, or that are looking for a guy like you.
Bitterness and bad attitude of course are the opposite of what you want. Just stop seeing the whole romance thing as important or that you're somehow less of a man by not having had a relationship. Neither of those things are true.
I watched a documentary on Bronies the other day with my wife, and it was pretty good. It was a doc on people who find it incredibly difficult to interact and find acceptance who enjoy the same cartoon, because it's a cartoon that focuses on hope and what it takes to be a good friend. My point is, OP, you're not the only person like you in the world, find some kindred spirits to start developing bonds with. If you can develop a bond with a like minded guy then women are the exact same.
And that's the trick, OP, stop seeing women as magical elusive creatures and see them for what they are, humans with vaginas. If you can buy a cup coffee off one then you can ask how their day is. if you can ask a woman how her day was then you ask her more about herself. If you can do that then you already have a line of communication open in which you can see whether you connect. If the conversation is good and feel talking to her is easy then you ask her out.
There are no skills, no flirting, no tricks to human interaction. If you're looking for a magic key there is none, you have to work for it and you have to fail sometimes to learn some lessons too.
Your only limitation in life is yourself and your attitude. Those are what you must overcome, because there are no rules of behaviour except to not be an intentionally bad person who wants to hurt people. Simple as that.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 September 2014): 1. Men still do most of the approaching, and women still expect it to be that way. And its even more true at younger ages. ("Letting him know he has a green light" does not even remotely resemble the kind of proactive risking that boys & men are expected to do.)
2. Men are less desired when they are younger. Teenage girls would usually rather mess with guys in their 20s if they could. And adult women prefer men with money which gives a strong advantage to older men in adult dating too.
It can be argued that both of these points are becoming less true than they used to be. But that does not make them not true. They are still VERY true in 2014. We do not live in a world where teenage boys normally have to deal with advances from lots of teen girls who want to hump anything on 2 legs. We do not live in a world where a broke 19yo boy has lots of women of all ages filling his online dating mailbox.
Yes, women still have serious advantages over men to get some romantic & sexual experience in their youth.
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reader, H8Reality217 +, writes (8 September 2014):
H8Reality217 is verified as being by the original poster of the question@Cerberus, how bad is your relatives case of Asperger's? You said low functioning in terms of social interaction, because I don't know what my case is, and I'm worried that if mine is low functioning it will make it impossible for me to improve my social skills, conversation skills and flirting skills that are essential, imperative for getting a girlfriend, even if I do make positive changes to myself and remove this bitterness and bad attitude towards women, make positive changes to my life that are outside of women and dating, a woman is not going to fall in my lap if I don't have the right social interaction skills
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 September 2014): OP, I'm beginning to think you're trying to validate and justify your bitterness towards women since your post: http://www.dearcupid.org/question/how-do-i-deal-with-my-hatred-and.htmlI think men are more vocal about their "involuntary celibacy" since they become sexually aware a lot younger. Thus, when they reach their twenties, they think it's been forever since they had actual intercourse with a woman. There are women on this forum who ask, "Why don't guys hit on me more often?" or "How do I get a guy's attention?" or "Should I ask this guy out?" You've got some answers before regarding women, men, and the dating world. Now you're collecting more responses. It seems to me you don't plan on changing yourself and improving your view on women. Instead, you want others to tell you "Yes, women have it easy. Men have to invest all the effort." Get help. Seriously. Something tells me you've been reading too much PUA and RedPill material on the Internet.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 September 2014): There are definitely more male virgins because we get raped a hell of a lot less. I know that's not the angle you're going for here but in terms of gender differences in relationships and sex you can't ignore that a woman's experience of those things carries it's own unique sets of challenges and risks.
1. No that's not true. How can a woman be hit on if she's a socially awkward recluse? Are people just going to knock on her door and ask her out? You have to have some kind of social interaction with the opposite sex to be asked out, OP and as a guy who has no problem chatting up women let me tell you socially awkward reclusive ones are just shut off and unapproachable. Even those that aren't socially reclusive can give off a smell of needy desperation that makes them very undesirable. Have a read of some of the "All my friends say I'm beautiful so why don't men approach me/ask me out/notice me" questions we get on this site. You'll see both how common that is and how just because men initiate doesn't mean that happens to every woman.
2)Again, you're reading a woman's "value" wrongly here, not that what they are valued for is right in the first place. When young they're valued for the beauty above all else. That's a purely aesthetic value and it's something most of them struggle with and some go to extraordinary lengths to try and stay that way with creams, surgery etc.
OP being valued that way means they feel they're in constant decline in value, that's if they even fit into society's version of beautiful in the first place.
The truth of the matter is they should be valued as people from birth to death in all ways that they can contribute to this world. I don't know about you but I've never felt that age meant a decline in my value, certainly not in the way they experience it or for it to be a social norm I'm expected to accept.
You're right in the sense that an inability to initiate is going to make it tough for a man to find a partner but it's a part of the human condition and it's one that is easier resolved than making yourself beautiful enough or funny enough to get noticed by men don't you think?
I mean we can initiate more easily, we can open a line of communication in which we can show off our personality to someone and impress them that way. Imagine for a moment what it would be like to be a woman who is not society's definition of beautiful and not have the option to initiate? How does a woman like that stop herself being FA?
The answer for both sexes is the same. If you want something go get it.
Now I understand apsergers makes it difficult for you to empathise with others, it's a very self-analytical condition. I have a family member who is high functioning intellectually but very low functioning in terms of social interaction, I don't see him ever being capable of a relationship he has it so severe and it's both undiagnosed and untreated.
But in terms of what you're asking, OP, women don't have it easier and while there are definitely more virgin men and definitely more FA men due to the cultures that still allow men have multiple wives, the reasons for those things are kind of worse than what we face don't you think?
I'd much rather be alone because I can't initiate romance than to be married off when I'm 13 to an abusive older man, or be one of multiple partners my husband has, or be forced into an arranged marriage with a man I don't even know, or be valued for my looks so much that I know I will be ignored and valued less in the future unless I have the money to at least attempt to stave that off, or know that my body clock only goes to a certain age when even my ability to breed ends so I have a time limit there too further decreasing my value as a mate.
OP us men face our own sets of challenges in life when it comes to relationships that are profound and soul destroying for some, but in any discussion about who has it more difficult then women unfortunately trump us in that regard and in some countries they're just utterly oppressed objects still.
If you want to understand more about what you're thinking about here you need to objectively look at the challenges of both sides, not just your own experience of life as a man. You don't have it worse than others, OP, you just have it different.
Your life is about you and if you want to change something about it then that's also on you. But focussing on how bad you have it will never achieve that, only a proper objective analysis of what you can do to change that status and then taking the practical steps necessary will.
So you can ponder things such as this for the rest of your life but the only answer that will ever satisfy your brain is to actually get out there and try all this stuff out.
A person who only analyses things is a theorist, true wisdom comes from testing your assertions. Experimenting, experiencing these things first hand, all the mistakes, successes and all the emotions. Just understand, OP, a theorist never gets answers, they only get more questions.
So decide whether you want to be an observer to something that so fascinates you or be an active participant.
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reader, chigirl  +, writes (8 September 2014):
 They are probably equal. Its just that male virgins cry louder about it. And you know what, your theory about women having so many options while young is absolute bs. They have just as many options as guys do, not more, not less. Ive been rejected tons of times by guys, both as a teenager and later on in life, as have female friends of mine. So sorry, but thats just not how it works... Even if women dont approach men, sooo many men dont approach women either.
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