A
male
age
41-50,
*uestions12
writes:Can you trust a serial cheater (woman)? I am dating an woman in her late 30's early 40's who is a serial cheater. She has been married twice and has cheated on both husbands. Her reasons and method of cheating are particularly disturbing: She cheated out of sexual need, a need for more, and also because she felt as though she needed to test her skill at seducing other men. Her method of cheating was very clever. She would call off of work and then have a sexual encounter during the day. Also, she has cheated on her ex husband with his friend. This affair lasted over 2 years with sex on a weekly basis as well as when the husband went out of town. She has also cheated repeatedly in despicable ways, such as during lunch breaks and during secret rendezvous while out of town. It is quite deceitful to pretend to go to work and then go off to have an affair during the day. She seems to be madly in love with me. She claims that her cheating ways are over, and that she has devastated enough people with her cheating (IE she will never do it again). Unfortunately, I tend to believe actions above words, and I do believe past behavior is the best predictor of the future. I am approaching a fork in the road. I will either continue the relationship and allow it to get more serious (possible engagement) or end it because I feel I simply cannot trust her. A little background on me and her: I am much younger and have never been married. She has been married before, and has had affairs in all marriages. What are your opinions?
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male
reader, questions12 +, writes (25 April 2009):
questions12 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you for the response and advice. Unfortunately, you are very right. Her 'issues' run much deeper than serving simple interests of flesh and lust. She claims that she has 'just changed' and is '100% certain' she will not cheat on my because she has no desire to cheat. Her reasons for having no desire are: she is sexually satisfied, she is told she is beautiful and loved regularly (I.E. her self esteem void is temporarily filled). I find this reasoning rather unpersuasive. I am a realist, and I know that the best (and only) predictor for the future is the past. One cannot simply 'change' on a whim. Actually, to be more accurate, I will say the odds are GREATLY against one changing on a whim. Its too bad, since we really do thoroughly enjoy each other in every aspect of life. However, I simply cannot let go of these feelings of distrust, and, well, disgust for that matter.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (23 April 2009): As tough as this sounds, run, run away as fast as you can. Disconnect your communications. You can only heal by putting distance between the both of you. They catch you when you are vunerable and try and suck you back into the comfort zone and then you get kiced right back down. You hate yourself for being a fool because they don't FEEL your pain. I know as I felt like the bozo for way too long. It isn't me - They have very deep dep esteem issues and you just can't play the repairman to something that can't be fixed.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2009): when in doubt..........there is doubt.
serial cheaters are just not male. women too devastate their better halves when they cheat. can a cheating man change, i believe NO. the same applies to the woman. they cannot change, as hard as they try, it is in their now innate nature to cheat.
if you want to take a chance with this woman, please go ahead. but go into this relationship with eyes wide open. good luck
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A
male
reader, questions12 +, writes (28 March 2009):
questions12 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI would like to know why you are so quick to determine that I do not love this woman. I'd say that my actions convey the complete opposite.
Personally, I think I act the way I do because I have finally found someone that has all the qualities I have ever dreamed of....BUT she has a past/history that I cannot accept. The situation is a tough one because one must judge whether such a past is relevant or irrelevant. I have extremely strong feelings for her, and I think this is why I harbor such ill will towards her due to her past actions.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2009): If you marry this woman, you are signing yourself up to be ex husband #3 and you know it. I haven't read all the responses, but I think you need to move on, and start looking inward to find out why you even feel compelled to stay with this woman in the first place. You don't love her. That much is clear.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (27 March 2009): the short answer is no. and that's coming from a guy who is a serial cheater (me). if in doubt there is no doubt.
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A
male
reader, questions12 +, writes (27 March 2009):
questions12 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionEveryone gave such fantastic responses to the initial problem, however, I would really appreciate a look at my lengthy update and some follow up advice!
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A
female
reader, wonderingcat  +, writes (27 March 2009):
 Aaaaahhh ... the plot thickens ;-)
In order for one to be comfortable with oneself, one must at first be at peace with oneself. Otherwise, one can be just as lonely being alone as in the midst of a lively crowd or amidst friends. There are ways to "practice" enjoying your own company on your own or in a crowd of people you don't know.
But it is indeed a form of "art", and true to that nature, not everyone is into it by choice. But once you can do that, it feels wonderful to be able to be comfortable with yourself, with or without people around you. In other words, you get the best of both worlds!
Cat
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A
male
reader, questions12 +, writes (27 March 2009):
questions12 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you! Sorry I did not answer your initial question, but we have been dating for almost 8 months now. The fear of not finding someone seems to be a lingering concern, despite a strong history to the contrary. To be honest, it has been years and years since I have been alone. Part of my really want to try to be alone to become comfortable with myself, but part of me does not want to let go...
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female
reader, wonderingcat +, writes (27 March 2009):
I think you know the answer to your main question already. Otherwise, you will not need to check her phone records and her emails. I would think that trust and respect are the fundamentals of any relationship. Be it amongst friends or between two lovers. Whenever I was in a serious relationship, our cell phones were always lying around somewhere at home, and we're always picking up calls for each other without the slightest worry about anything. The same with our computers/laptops, where we help each other out to do the routine regular backups. If you have nothing to hide, then you feel comfortable about being transparent and trusting and sharing. If she has become a habitual liar and a compulsive cheater, then only a professionally trained person can help her. But again, "help" may not be appreciated unless she herself admitted that she needs help. If she does not feel nor acknowledged that she needs help, everything and anything said to her will just continued to be ignored by her.The question now is, are you prepared to be with her knowing that she has commitment issues, or would you rather be with someone who are truly on the same page with on trust, respect, commitment, and love? Good luck to you, my friend!Cat
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A
male
reader, questions12 +, writes (27 March 2009):
questions12 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAlso, to follow up, no she has not received professional help of any sort that I know of. She has recently exchanged communication with the man who ruined her childhood, however it was not confrontations, just small talk....I doubt it had any effect but she claims that it made a world of difference to her.
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A
male
reader, questions12 +, writes (27 March 2009):
questions12 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWow, thank you for your heartfelt and insightful answers - I am totally taken off guard by them.
I dont know where to begin, answer questions or update my situation. I think I will answer some questions first:
*Her previous husbands did not satisfy her sexually. However, I satisfy her fully. We have sex at least 3 times a day, and she does orgasm frequently. She has told me that I am the best she has ever had, etc. etc. Now, on to the more important question: what does this all mean? It is truly a perplexing question, whether or not her sexual needs were motivated by physical or mental factors. I think the answer is the most dangerous; I think the answer is both. This woman has a voracious appetite for sex, however she also has had some traumatic incidents in her younger years that have led to promiscuous behavior (IE the mental component). I am satisfying her sexually, but is that enough, since we will be apart for a month when she travels on business?
I totally agree with some of your feedback about her 'wanting' sex etc. and not needing it. However, she told me that her previous husband would have sex with her once a week or once a month, and that he never told her he loved her. I found this to be a persuasive excuse. HOWEVER, after she had a few drinks one night, she told me that the main reason she cheated was to see if she could "conquer" a good looking man (IE sleeping with him)...which is pathetic in my opinion because she is a good looking woman, so it is no big deal to have sex with some random guy, in fact it is quite repulsive.
Background information about myself: I am less than 30 years of age, and am attending law school. I am very fit physically, also I possess the physical characteristics to satisfy a woman's physical needs. I know this may seem like a vulgar statement, however, it is necessary because I have been with women before who claim they cheated because their mate was 'too small' to satisfy etc. I personally feel that is not an excuse, however in case anyone was wondering about the my physical components and our sex life, it truly is not the worry.
My worry is that I do not trust her at this point. I make this perfectly clear to her: I check her phone, her email etc. and I ask her questions about guys who are calling and/or texting. The problem is, every time I check her phone or computer there is always at least one questionable exchange from some guy. She always makes some sort of excuse for it, however I am not stupid and I know that too many 'plausible explanations' is a dead giveaway of deceit.
There is a man who has courted her while she was dating me. She claims that she 'dealt with it' however he keeps contacting her. This man lives right down the street from her, so of course I would wonder why she would keep entertaining his communications, especially the ones that clearly show he wants to get together. This morning I found out that he called her again; and when I questioned her she denied it completely....until I showed her the phone history. Even then she denied it and 'didnt remember'...please, riiiight.
As you can tell, this is quite frustrating. She claims she deleted his info from her phone, but I have heard all that before. She continues to have these men circulate around her, it seems she keeps them at bay for some reason (to cheat on me? why else...?) I find it inappropriate for a woman to have single, male friends who are showing interest. I could go on and on about finding emails or wall posts from guys that I find completely inappropriate, but I feel you get the picture. She always has some excuse like 'he was just joking' etc.
Honestly, I think she much more attached to me than I am to her at this point. The reason is that I simply do not trust her. But I do not, WILL not live life this way. I will not continue to be with someone who feels the need to entertain all these men, especially with her history.
Question: Is this an unreasonable stance? Should I tolerate her having all these male friends, despite their showing interest?
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A
female
reader, happytochat  +, writes (27 March 2009):
You are right in believing actions over words. Can you trust her? Well, sure people can change, but what has she done to change??? Has she seeked counselling? Unless you can see clear evidence that she has dealt with the underlying issues of her cheating, then I dont think you can trust her. From what you have written, it sounds like she hasnt dealt with it. It sounds like shes making excuses for her cheating by saying she NEEDED sex, or she NEEDED to see how good her skill was. Pfttt.....no one NEEDS that. Thats a want, and we dont all get what we want. Testing her skill...for what 2 years?? yeah right.
She has a mind set that she needs those things, when she doesnt...so yes, this is quite dangerous. Also, it sounds like she is very insecure, having to 'test her skill', to make herself feel more better and confident. Im not saying insecure poeple are bad, but some people dont deal with their insecurities in a good way, and she is one of these people who deals with them in a bad way, as it has lead to her cheating.
She could list all the excuses in the world for her cheating, but it doesnt justify it. Maybe she says he marriage was bad, maybe her husband didnt fulfil her needs...well you know what, that happens in ALOT of other peoeples relationships, yet they dont cheat. They are mature about it, and communicate to their partner about it. She obviously lacks the ability to talk about problems and deal with them in a mature manner.
I honestly hope you can see that you deserve better than someone who would cheat on their partners. I know you probably want to believe that you are different this time, but it doesnt matter how great you could be, it wont stop her cheating, she has to deal with her own issues.
Seriously, dont buy what she is saying. You are right- actions speak louder than words.
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A
female
reader, wonderingcat +, writes (27 March 2009):
How long have you known or been dating her? When she says that she will never cheat again, other than saying that, has she shown anything else that in your opinion, indicates that meant it this time?Age is not a factor. If you go through various postings on this site, you will see that cheating and love knows nor age nor gender. Your posting is very heavy in its nuances of you being doubtful that she will/can change her cheating habits. That is of course just human nature. It is also your defence mechanism kicking in.Perhaps you need to assess yourself what actually drove her to cheating on both of her previous husbands. You mentioned her unsatisfied or unmet "sexual needs". Does that mean she has a very high sex drive? Or addicted to sex? If she is, do you have enough [drive, energy] to satisfy her? Is she seeing a therapist to get to the bottom of this as a means to learn how she can manage her high sex drive and/or sex addiction?A high sex-drive is different than sex addiction, but both can lead to abusive behaviour (of which cheating followed by lying is one). The only person capable of breaking her cycle of cheating and lying is herself. It has to come from within her, and she needs to do it through the assistance of a professional therapist. Her high level energy (yes, people with high level of sex drive often has a high level of energy) also needs to be managed, by "spending" it. How? Yoga (un-aerobic way of releasing energy), exercises (aerobic way of releasing energy), and doing extraordinary work to help people and animals (work in shelters could be both taxing emotionally, but at the same time also so rewarding when you see the results of your work .. however small the results are). You have identified her disturbing "habits" already, and you may continue to scrutinize her in the future until she proves herself that she is changing her ways and breaking her negative behaviour cycle. But once she has proven herself [to herself as well as to you], you will be able to breathe in confidence of her love and commitment to you. And because the motivation came in from within herself, she will be committed to being faithful to herself and thus to you too.Love is a wonderful thing!Cat
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 March 2009): People who have a record of cheating and deceit tend to continue to do these things unless was causing them to continue ends. Usually when a women seduces men its for the feelings of validation due to a low self-esteem. Marrying her without being sure that she has worked through her issues isn't going to make you feel more secure, it's just going to make the situation more complicated. If she truly feels that you're the one for her and she's done with her cheating ways, she wouldn't object to going through some counselling to sort through her personal issues and all that has happened as a result of her divorces.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 March 2009): maybe you should just enjoy the moment for now ! and see how this relationship goes , you are obvoiusly attracted to each other , and as you have pointed out, you are alot younger , sometimes relationships just peter out quite naturally , enjoy each others company for now . and see how things go .
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 March 2009): I have cheated on some men, and not on others. I guess it depends widely on what you think. maybe she lacked satisfaction from her husbands, maybe she was board. I do know a person who is a sex addict and cant help it they just seek it out and if its there they go with it, if that's the case I don't know. I would say there is an underlying reason why maybe she should or you both should see a therapist, there could be that she just is insecure, were these men younger too, her husband or the men she cheated with. maybe for all you know they couldnt satisfy her, it's like an itch that cant be scratched lol sorry but its true. If she has told you all of this prior it's either a cry for help or she may wan to change her ways, you could be the one that does satisfy her and she wont cheat. I would inquire about why she cheated. basically she is the only one who knows how she really feels, maybe you should not get married but propose if thats how you feel and just set a long engagement to see how it goes shes been married twice already whats the big rush. consider all that but in my opinion she doesn't know what she wants, or she doesn't know what love is or didn't. My mom is exactly like her and that woman is incapeable of working on love. She believes its physical rather than a state of mind like it works or it doesn't. I believe all relationships take work and sacrafice. Sounds to me like she does have some issues going on that she deals with through physical emotion, maybe she was molested as a child who knows why she probly doesnt know even.If she truly wants to change or prove that she has she will go to a professional with you or alone either way it wont hurt to try. trust is a valuable thing and because you have doubts that would be enough for me to sit back and wait and see. The fact that she left work to have sex is a common sign of an addict she needs help guidance understanding awareness something.Good luck I hope she does not cheat on you, you sound like an extremely careing person who deserves a faithful companion.
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