A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I need some advice on my current marital situation... My wife and I have been married for six years. She's very religious and, as such, there was a very strict "no sex before marriage" policy - which I agreed to. The problems began after the wedding though...We seperated intitally after 14 months of marriage because there was zero physical intimacy. We slept together on the honeymoon and that was the first and last time for 14 months. I tried everything I could to make it easier on her but she just had very little interest (she claims low sex drive). We went to couples counselling but it didn't help - she would become confrontational with the counselor if it was suggested that she might be the problem.Anyway, we split up after 14 months - I moved out and we talked about divorce. During this time, I ended up seeing another woman. Yes, I know it was technically cheating since I wasn't officially divorced. It wasn't the right way to handle the situation and I'm not going to argue that it was. Just to be clear, it did NOT occur until I had already been out of the house for several months. I was 100% honest with everyone involved and truly thought divorce was imminent. During this time, my wife started seeing a psychiatrist and was working through her problems. After about two and half years, we were still living apart but talking frequently. I had broken things off with the other woman and was encouraged by the way my wife was acting (more mature, more confident, etc). So we decided to give it another try. I moved back home (she kept our house when I moved out) and we tried again to make it work.It's been about 2 years since I moved back in and things are still not what I want them to be. To be honest, I think even my feelings have changed at this point. I think of my wife as my best friend but she still doesn't provide any intimacy at all (to this day, 6 years of marriage and we've had sex a total of three times...). But worse, now I'm finding I don't want it... I'm not really attracted to her like that... It doesn't seem to bother her in the least and when I recently told her I'm still having problems with the marriage she seemed geniunely surprised...I know if I leave again, that's it. She has been very clear that she never wants to speak to me again if I leave her a second time. I worry about losing my best friend but at the same time, am I selfish for wanting a real relationship? I still love her but I don't think I love her the way you're supposed to love a wife... She still loves me but is happy with the way things are.. She says I have "grass is greener" syndrome and that I'm looking for a perfect relationship. I sometimes wonder if she's right. Am I wrong to thing marriage should be more than this? We're great friends but it seems to me that it's no more than that...and probably never will be. I don't want to hurt anyone. I don't want to make a mistake that I'll regret for the rest of my life. I just don't think I'm being unreasonable by feeling that a marriage should be more... I want to be happy and I don't think I'm being unreasonable, am I? I know that sex isn't everything and that the older you get the less important it is... But I just don't feel the connection with her like I used to. I think her detachment from stuff like that has pushed me away to the point where I no longer think of her as desirable. It's not her looks or anything like that - its just that the thought of sleeping with her now feels like sleeping with a relative or something... Its hard to explain, I guess...Sorry for writing a novel - there's just a lot of pieces to this and I agonize over making the wrong decision. If I remove all my emotional attachment to the situation, the answer seems clear - I will never be truly happy if I stay with her. But it's very tough to make a decision like this in a purely logical manner...Any advice is most certainly welcome...
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (2 February 2012): to me it sounds like there's still potential because you said she's made great personal progress in her individual therapy. It's possible that the marriage may also progress at some point because she has to heal as an individual first, before she can give herself fully to a relationship. You have to be able to walk before you run. And right now, she's still learning to walk and sounds like she has made a lot of progress in her therapy sessions.
based on that, I would say that if she's made great progress on the personal healing side, then that IS progress in the marriage, because she is one half of the relationship and she's getting "better" in her personal issues. You're just not yet at the next stage where the physical intimacy is concerned. But to me it sounds like there is potential.
Now it comes down to YOU and how long you are willing to wait. What if it takes her 10 more years before she can finally be OK with physical intimacy? No one can tell you that it's right or wrong to say you can only wait one more year, or 10 years, or none at all. This is something you have to decide for yourself.
here's some options:
1. You continue to stay in the marriage while she continues to make personal progress, and hopefully at some point you will be rewarded with a wonderful marriage when she has progressed to where you can have intimacy. The longer the wait and sacrifice, the sweeter and stronger your marriage will be when you eventually get there. Your marriage will be truly very strong for having weathered such storms and you will be rewarded for it. And in the meantime, how about YOU go to counseling so you can find more effective ways to handle and cope with not having as much intimacy as you want and need?
2. now that she has made a lot of progress in her personal therapy, would it be worth it to go to couples counseling again, one more time before you throw in the towel? Maybe with a different counselor this time. If she wants to keep this marriage (as she claims) then surely she would want to do whatever it takes to keep you from leaving, and I don't mean by emotionally blackmailing you into staying, but by trying to meet your needs so that you will want to stay.
3. You draw the line and decide you cannot wait any longer. You acknowledge that yes if you waited another 5, 10, who knows how many more years, that you *could* have a great marriage. But you decide that you just cannot wait that long or you cannot take that risk by waiting that long only to still be in this situation but now being 10 years older. And that's OK to decide that. then you have to decide to divorce her, and with that, you will lose her as a friend too. That's OK too. This does not have to be the end of the world. You could find a wonderful new partner and have a great marriage, in a much shorter time frame than it would take to wait for your present wife to come around to where she can fully give to the marriage.
She has to realize that while she may love you deeply in a non-sexual way, that marriage is supposed to be more than that otherwise she is looking to you as more of a familial father or brother figure, as you said so yourself. She has to understand that having a father figure or brother figure in her life is wonderful and very valuable. But it's not the same kind of relationship as a husband-wife relationship. So what she wants is not a real marriage after all. I think she has found in you a safe haven, given her past experiences with an unhappy childhood. It's only natural that she's terrified of losing her one and only safe relationship. But, she's mistaking this safe haven as a marriage (because legally it is one), when in reality it's not a marriage.
Maybe you can convince her to stay friends if you divorce, because really nothing will change if you're already not being romantic or intimate with each other anyway!! You're essentially already divorced-but-friends, you just need to not live in the same house.
A
female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (1 February 2012):
 You know what.. if she's sick or traumatised and she doesn't know it, you should still leave.. marriage is about wanting your partner to find happiness, not keep him and make him unhappy because you have problems you don't know about or cannot fix, in this I speak from experience.
Love means wanting your happiness, as well as my own..
As I said, she'll be happy enough, you don't need to be married to keep her as a friend and it'll be exactly the same, except you'll live in a different house and have nice woman in your bed. Just make sure you explain the situation to your next partner who is looking for love.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (1 February 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionPrior to getting married, we were in a long distance relationship for 3 years. We saw each other about every 4-6 weeks but sex wasn't on the table. There was making out involved but as soon as it got to the point where clothes might be coming off, she'd slam on the brakes (like I said, I agreed to respect her beliefs and didn't push the issue - because I thought that's all it was...). During the times we lived in different states, obviously sex didn't even come up. About a year before we got married, I moved to where she lived and we moved in together. Sex was discussed but she made it sound like once she was my wife, everything would be wonderful. Never once did she say she doesn't actually want to (although to be fair, she was a virgin so maybe she didn't know how she felt about it...).
I also don't think she's being intentionally abusive by withholding. I think she really just isn't interested and she seems to struggle to understand that I am (or at least was). Maybe this is just a case of two people that are completely incompatible in that department...
The trauma/abuse angle does sound completely plausible. I will say that I have no knowledge of any sexual abuse/trauma that has occurred in her life (of course, that does not mean there may be something she's hiding even from me). I do know her relationship with her mother is very emotionally abusive which resulted in pretty low self-esteem - she's been seeing a psychiatrist/psychologist (not exactly sure which) for about 3 years now working through that.
Why did I go back after I left? Well...first of all, we never really split - not completely. Even though I lived a couple hours away in a different part of the state for 2 years, we more or less stayed in contact the entire time. Near the end (maybe 6 months before I moved back home) we were talking almost every day. She was excited about the progress she'd been making in therapy and I could see some definite changes in her behavior. I was encouraged that maybe things would be different this time around. I also give her a lot of credit - she has made some great changes in her life but as far as our problems as a married couple go, nothing has changed and after 6 years, I don't really expect them to. If I leave her again, which its looking more and more likely, this time it's permanent. I agree that leave/come back/leave/come back will do nothing but make us both crazy and isn't fair to anyone.
Her changes in therapy: My wife has a pretty bad relationship with her parents. They're not really there for her in any way - even as a child. She was more or less raised by her grandmother. As a result, when we were together, it almost felt like she was looking for a father figure (she was very immature despite the fact that we're only a year apart in age) and the affection she wanted from me consisted of hugs and approval. Since spending her time in therapy, she's gotten a lot more mature and our relationship seems to have evolved into being good friends. While that's a big improvement, its not a real marriage and it isn't what I want (maybe that's selfish, but it's the truth). She has continued therapy but there haven't been any changes in the relationship now in two years. Will it become what I want if I wait another 5 years, 10 years? Who knows? I no longer really have the faith that it will though...
As far as being friends goes - I personally would be okay with that. Our relationship (at least from my perspective) has been platonic and nothing more than friends for several years now. I no longer feel the romantic connection to her and think I could be happy just being her friend (I don't mean like it is now...I mean if I were in a fulfilling relationship with someone else). She, on the other hand, says she loves me like a husband and would be devastated if I leave her. She says in order for her to get over it, she would want to end ALL contact with me... permanently. It's possible after time, "permanent" would go away, but right now, she says if I leave she never wants to talk to me again. So it would seem friendship just isn't on the table...
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A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (1 February 2012):
"Am I wrong to thing marriage should be more than this?" (male anon)
Use your brains.. if people only have sex 3 times in 6 years, then where do all the children come from. That's not enough sex for procreation, which the bible says is the purpose of marriage.
Doesn't she talk to other people, does she think that anyone lives like this. Have you both never talked about children, or is that something else she's not interested in.
The people who live no-sex lives, don't get married.. A lot of them become monks and nun's and dedicate their life to God. Marriage is about sex, if she wants a friend, then there is no reason to get married. She can do everything she wants without being married.
I can't understand how you could live like this for 6 years. Do you also have no sex drive. Don't you ever feel desire or get horny, what do you do then.
Divorce this woman, whatever her problems are, she obviously has no wish to fix them. She can get a lodger or a room mate, and they can sit together and don't touch and never have sex and her life will be exactly the same.
But you need a proper wife, the one that they promise in the wedding vows... you remember that part about worshipping you with my body... that means sex baby, and there are millions of religious women out there just dying for a kind man to settle down with and show them the bedroom.
What a waste... you could have a proper wife, a great sex life, but instead you choose to stay with this nun who is forcing you to be celibate.
Why do you stay... because you think this is all there is to life... lol.. no way.. sorry, I assume your Christian, but you may be Hindu, Muslim or something else... All holy books talk about sex, all holy books talk about good sex within a marriage.... the grass is definitely greener. As soon as you leave her, you'll find out that marriage with sex and love is one of the best things on earth.
*shakes head... how could your wife convince you that married people don't have sex and a no-sex marriage should make you very happy
PS: Can't suggest an open relationship, what's the point, as soon as you found a woman you liked enough to have sex with you'd leave your wife in a second.
Your wife has no-sex drive and may be asexual, that's ok, but she should have told you before marriage and given you a choice, instead she tries to make you feel guilty and wrong because your like most of the people on the planet.... asexual (no sexual feeling) people are very rare and it's best the don't marry (or find someone who doesn't care) because they hurt other people when they reject further intimacy.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (1 February 2012):
 If she was a virgin when she met you, she would have no idea about her level of libido. So that kind of baffles me when she said he had a low libido.
Secondly, when you dated did you cuddle, touch, make out?
Anything resembling sex? You know what I'm talking about. If not, that might have been an indicator that sex would never be on the table. Or did you two discuss sex? Other then her stating she wanted to wait?
I have to agree with the poster that mentioned her having had some kind of trauma connected to sex. Unless she is totally asexual.
Honestly, I can't imagine a marriage without sex. Maybe when hubby and I hit our 90's, but even after 14 years we are still getting busy.
If you want to give it a go I would suggest you find a therapist who specialize in couples with sexual dysfunction.
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A
female
reader, Read-the-signs +, writes (1 February 2012):
The relationship has to come to an end. You have had the patience of a saint. She cannot expect to keep you under these circumstances. You sound like a decent man but quite understandably your bond with your wife has been marred due to lack of physical intimacy.
You must think of yourself and do not allow yourself to be emotionally blackmailed or waste anymore time staying and trying to make it work. The chances of this turning into the normal marriage you desire are nil in my opinion.
You deserve to be happy, so make the break and move forwards.
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A
female
reader, chocoholicforever +, writes (1 February 2012):
I think your wife doesn't want a husband or a marital relationship, instead she wants a security blanket.
If you are married, then your marriage is to be your only physical relationship. So if your marriage has no physical intimacy even though at least one of the partners still wants some, then it's a broken marriage, IMO. And you've tried to fix it - you went to couples counseling, but your wife wasn't willing to hear how she could be contributing to the problem. To me, that sounds like she doesn't want the relationship to change, she wants it to stay the way it is - as just good friends and roommates, like a sibling type family situation.
You've been trying to work on this for several years now and it's still not there. So what do you do now?
Where do you see this going if you continue staying with your wife? Even if there's still no intimacy, are things at least headed in that direction? Maybe the relationship needs more time. But what if it needs more time than you are willing to wait? You have to decide if you are OK with this. It sounds like you're not, and no one can fault you for it.
I would not say necessarily that your wife is being emotionally abusive by witholding physical affection, IF the reason is due to past trauma or discomfort. Deliberately witholding affection to one's partner is abusive. But you cant with hold that which you don't have in the first place. It would be cruel to her to expect her to do something that traumatizes her, and while you've been very patient and understanding for the past 3 years by not pressuring her and allowing her space, the fact is that if she really has a fear-based or discomfort based aversion to physical relations it could last for the rest of her life, or it could take a very long time to heal, you never know. So if you're going to decide to wait it out, you have to decide if you can wait for the rest of your lives if it comes down to that.
However even if she's not trying to manipulate and use you, the fact is that you are still very affected by the lack of intimacy, which is normal as well and is a very difficult situation to be in indefinitely. So, without pointing fingers at whether it's her fault or yours (which maybe the couples counselor you saw might have done), I would suggest that you just take a step back, try and be objective in evaluating the status of this relationship and where it is headed, and whether you can live with it, and if you can't I don't think it's wrong to leave your wife.
You did leave her once before, and yet you came back. Why? what was it that made you go back to this situation instead of moving on? that is more what I'm concerned about because unless something has changed in your thinking, you could find yourself back in this situation again where you leave her because you really can't take this, but then end up wanting to get back with her despite it. But that wouldn't be fair to her, if you can't make up your mind as it involves her. She deserves to move on as well if you're going to decide to move on, not to be kept as a back up if you change your mind.
If you're best platonic friends now - since she has no desire for a physical relationship with you and now you have lost desire for her as well - then why can't you get divorced and still be friends or a sibling-type relationship?
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (1 February 2012): Something is not being said here.
She has issues that go deeper than "no sex", she has to.
Either mental illness, history of sexual abuse, or some other type of abuse/neglect, or some serious underlying psychiatric disorder.
People who have no interest in a healthy loving sexual relationship with their partners usually have a history of sexual abuse or trauma, even if they don't admit it.
Today, my wife and I have a healthy, loving, sexual and nonsexual relationship. But, it didn't start that way.
Two years of couples counseling, and her going to counseling on her own, and finally she had to start talking...for real, and talk about the abuse she had suffered before she met me.
Buy this book, http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Sex-Mind-Body-Approach-Sexual/dp/1573442933, read it, and leave it on your coffee table but don't say anything about it.
Perhaps it will stir some conversation up, I know it did in my house after I bought it.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (1 February 2012): This denying of sexual intimacy is emotional abuse and does in fact effect the mind and spirit to the degree it is so neglectful.
There is no kindness, true friendship, loving, understanding, support when a marriage is void of the gift of physical intimacy.
She is failing her duties as Wife.
If she has no to low libido; then she should have been forthcoming. And she needs to do and give her all to get tests done to rule out medical issues.
In the end, I find no fault in you leaving and finding a beautiful, loving, giving, healthy Marriage.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (1 February 2012): Tell her that the grass is ALWAYS going to look greener on the other side of the fence . . . when there is no grass growing on your side of the fence at all.
Unless there is some kind of physical health reason, no regular sex = no romantic relationship. This is how normal healthy people are, both male and female. Even those who don't have sex before marriage are usually happy to be physically intimate to lesser degrees before marriage. Your wife sounds like something different.
She just does not want physical intimacy & sex in her life. I'm not calling her a bad person but she is not living the life of a normal married woman. That lifestyle will probably not work for a normal man like you. She should respect the fact that she is making demands outside the norm, not you.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (1 February 2012): No...I most certainly do not think you are being unreasonable. A fufilling sex life is an important part of marriage. You said your wife is religious. You didn't say what religion she subscribes to, but my religion says that once you are married, you "belong" to each other. (Of course if there is illness or some other reasonable necessity to not have sex, then all bets are off), but at the VERY LEAST she should want to please you if she loves you. It's sad that she seemingly has no desire. Have the two of you consulted a doctor or a sex therapist to see if there is some medical reason that she doesn't desire sex? Many medications including anti depressants kill sex drive. You know, I've had relationship problems in the past and you're right. It's much harder to make these kind of decisions when you have an emotional involvement as you do. It's clear to me (with my lack of friendship and emotional involvement and shared history with your wife) that you are unhappy in this marriage. You like her, even love her, as a FRIEND. It is not enough. People don't marry for friendship alone. If they did, I'd have 7 husbands. You deserve a complete marriage. And, again, I have to question her "religiousness". It seems to me that she is holding you hostage in a sexless, passionless marriage and is thereatening you to withhold her friendship if you leave her in order to make you feel guilty. Doesn't sound like a deeply religious or loving friend/wife. I don't mean to make it sound easy. It's not. I'm divorced and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. You have to decide if it's worth living this one life with a big, wonderful, necessary part missing in order to keep her as a friend.
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A
female
reader, katiekate +, writes (31 January 2012):
 I think you have been extremely patient and accomodating to your wife. But I also think that you are making an enormous sacrifice by remaining in a sexless marriage for such a long time. I think something else is going on with your wife that she's not telling you. Maybe she's asexual or something, because even with a low sex drive, having sex three times in sex years sounds utterly ridiculous. You sound very unhappy. At the end of the day, you owe it to yourself to be happy, especially if you have made every attempt to make the marriage work.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (31 January 2012): Listen, friend. Your wife sounds like mine, except that my wife was more than happy to have sex with men before she met me - even people she did not know well and was not in a relationship with. She had sex with me, too. Then, we got married and it all stopped. 18 years now with zero sex for the last 10 years and very little before (3 times in six years sound familiar). We also got separated and then got back together with no real improvement or changes.It's a very difficult situation. Like your wife is to you, my wife is my best friend. I really enjoy spending my days with her. However, I feel like an aspect of our lives is missing and I am very resentful of my wife for taking that away from us. She just doesn't understand - or refuses to. It's very unfair.I think I regret not leaving her, figuring it would work itself out. It never did. I never left her because I didn't want to be on my own and because I didn't feel I could ever find another woman like her again. I am not sure I can. You have to be really compatible to be with someone so many years. On the other hand, not having sex ever is a huge deal. I could have found another woman by now who is maybe not as perfect as my wife in some ways, but who would have been sexually compatible with me and I think I would've been happier with that. I hate living like a monk. To you, brother, I say for you to do as I say and not as I do: Pack your bags and leave her before another 12 years go by and you end up like me, still thinking about leaving, still sexless, and still miserable - except with 12 more of your prime years gone.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (31 January 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionJust before this comes up, I wanted to add something I forgot to clarify...
My wife went so far as to suggest we have an open marriage (at least as far as I'm concerned...she doesn't seem to have any interest in other people). That is not something I am interested in personally nor do I think my wife would ultimately accept it if she actually thought more about it.
It's not a case where if I only had someone to have sex with everything would be fine.... So please don't offer that as a solution - in my case it is not.
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