A
male
age
41-50,
*-treem
writes:Hi everyone, this is my first question on here. And I'm using this service because I am in complete bits over recent events with my ex-girlfriend.I am 30 years old, am in a top job at a top bank in Canary Wharf, London. Career is going brilliantly despite the Credit Crunch. I recently split up with my girlfriend - 21 years old with two kids (twins) of three years old, lives an hour outside of London. We met over two years ago and became close friends and always had a thing for each other. Then in February of this year, we got together and have been going out with each other since.We have such an incredible bond, we have fun, laughter, love spending time with each other, and know each other inside-out. We are madly in love with each other and we are everything we want in each other. BUT, there have been problems. We've split up three or four times during the 9 months we've been together, and it has always been due to her massive distrust of me. I have never cheated on her, but she has consistently accused me of sleeping with my various female friends. Admittedly, I dated her sister (ONLY dated) very briefly over a year ago, and I used to be a stripper until three years ago (which was just to earn extra cash after I bought a property). On the outside, I seem like a player due to my extrovert personality and social outwardness, but when it comes down to it, I'm not interested in sleeping around and prefer to be with a girl whom I can love and care for. While I have been with her, I have shown her abundant amounts of love and affection. I do everything for her, put all my time, effort, money and love into her. And I have done all this despite her woes: she has a complete lack of ability to show any sign of affection (except when drunk when she's able to show her feelings more), she has complete lack of empathy, and is more irrational and unreasonable than any other girl I have ever dated. For example, if I'm late from work by half an hour, she'll accuse me of sleeping with girls at work in the toilets!But I try to understand because I love her to bits, and she has had a very bad life which I feel sorry for her and want to make the best life possible for her and her kids. She was raped when she was 14, she had twins at 19, she's extremely poor, has only two friends, and her family don't support her at all. Other than that, she's a stunning girl, tall and slim, looks very similar to Sarah Harding from Girls Aloud. But she isn't arrogant about it, and only wants to have happiness and love with the right guy, and she chose me. When we split up a few months ago, it was due to her accusing me again of sleeping with my friend. Her problem is that she completely clams up and does not communicate in order to discuss the matter. Once she's made her mind up, she completely shuts down and refuses to enter any sort of dialogue. I end up getting frustrated, I continually press the issue (pleading and begging, not shouting or anything) and eventually she says some harsh things and ultimately on this occasion ended it with me. I reacted by tipping her hi-fi on the floor of her bedroom breaking it and leaving. I would never hit her or hurt her in any way, and I've been told by friends that at least I didn't throw the hi-fi at her! And sometimes, a man can do something like break something when so angered and frustrated. However, she saw it as a massive thing and said I have anger management problems. So I agreed to go to therapy, even went to The Priory. And then we got back together.After that, things were great again for a while, just like nothing bad ever happened. But then the false accusations started again. I reacted frustrated and pressed matters when she refused to communicate. In the last week we were together though, I had a lot of stresses at work, and I probably went overboard on some things, misunderstanding some things she said and caused a few arguments. But these were only ever over the phone while I was at work and things were fine by the evening when I got home. There were probably four of these occasions in the last week. But then, just as it was getting better, the worst thing happened. She found a girl's passport in my laptop bag. This belonged to a girl who left it at my birthday party over a year ago, but I forgot to return it and has been left in my laptop bag. She immediately assumed the worst and said I'd been sleeping with this girl. I had been living with my girlfriend for a few weeks at that point (leaving my flat and life in London and commuting three hours everyday so I could be living with her). She threw me out that evening and I had to quickly find a new place to live back in London. Things since then have been extremely painful for both of us.On advice of my therapist to not endanger me coming into contact with her so as not to destabilise myself feeling better, I had her barred from our local nightclub so she wouldn't be there when I was there. But she tried to get in anyway and got really upset when she got turned away and texted me saying I was ruining her life. We talked on the high street and I got her unbarred and we spent the night together, went back to mine after, and we slept together - it was perfect, just like we'd never been apart. Next day, I was at hers and her kids' dad turned up to drop the kids off. After nearly getting in a punch-up with him, he told me he slept with her last week! She admitted it. I left distraught, but went back later for answers. She told me she did it to try and get over me, she said it didn't work though, she regrets it, she hated it anyway, etc. But I was more hurt by the fact she then slept with me again without telling me about it. She's been apologing profusely since saying it meant nothing with her ex, she missed me so much and that's why she slept with me, she says everything reminds her of me - she can't even go the cinema with her friend or play Scrabble without thinking of me! But I told her some harsh home truths about herself and her life and she got really upset because she knows it's true - that she's got two kids she struggles with, no friends, no job, complete inability to show affection, can't cook, lazy, distrusting and suspicious of everyone, nasty and vexatious at times without good reason, and always tries to use her kids as an excuse for it all when other mums with more kids get on with it fine. I told her I'm not trying to be nasty, I just want her to know that I know all this about her yet am with her because I see something special and different beyond all that and was willing to bring her out of the hole she's in because I love her dearly and care for her. This all obviously upset her and she agrees with it all; but no one has ever put it to her like that before. But I told her that despite hurting me beyond imagination, I can forgive her; but I'm completely confused and so is she.I love her more than anything, but the pain is becoming physical as well as emotional. Yesterday, I went for Christmas lunch with work, and I just sat silent at the restaurant table the whole time MSN'ing with her. I could barely eat any of the food. In fact, during the main course, I just started to burst out crying. I held it in, stood up quickly, nearly knocked everything off the table, and ran to the toilet and spent five minutes in there crying my eyes out. The only giveaway when I got back was my bloodshot eyes. I can't eat anything. I had an egg sandwich last night and it made me sick. And I keep heaving all the time. I've never ever had pain like this. Even now sat at my desk, I'm holding back tears and heaving every so often. I can barely concentrate on my work.I know we're meant to be together because the problems we had when we were together were really nothing compared to the pain we have now we're not together. And the biggest difference is that I know they were sortable. We were dealing with them. The last week we were together, I had a lot of stresses at work. It was so bad, I actually got really bad dandruff as a result. And it was hard adjusting to the three hours of commuting each day, but I was getting used to that.I hope we can be together by Christmas, being without her at Christmas would make Christmas meaningless, for both of us - she can't even afford presents for her kids. I want to be there for her and her kids. They mean the world to me, and I know we can have a happy Christmas together. I do stupid things sometimes, all guys do, especially when frustrated and angry and bitter and hurt, especially after what she did to me. It's turned my world upside-down. I would never hurt her, I would never meaningfully cause her pain. All I want is for all our pain to stop and I know it would if we were together and talked through our problems. Might take a few days to get back to normal, but what's a few days for a lifetime of happiness? She told me last night that she told her sister she loves me and wants to get back with me. She can't eat anything, she's on antidepressants. I feel just as hurt too. But she said she's confused and needs time to think. She's only ever had one boyfriend before me (dad of her kids), and she said she realises she never really loved him after she fell in love with me. But, am I flogging a dead horse? Should I try and move on? Is it more trouble than it's worth? I don't have the patience to wait a few weeks. I'll go out my mind. And it's so difficult to break contact with the availability of e-mail, MSN, mobile phones, knowing she'll be hanging out at the same places. I just don't know what to do...
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male
reader, Crafter  +, writes (19 December 2008):
 Good for you, buddy. I'm happy to hear you're rid of her.
It will be tough at first, but it gets better with time.
All the best!
A
male
reader, X-treem +, writes (19 December 2008):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the question Thanks again guys for all your great advice and words of inspiration. I went to see her last night to get some final closure either way on the whole thing. And Crafter, you're right, she acts tough and independent, but really she is just completely indifferent to my suffering. Last night proved this. She forgets everything she's done wrong and feels like she's hard done by.Last night, I saw a side to her that was callous and cold - she thinks I've never loved her and started dredging up the past again, so I ended up reminding her of all the bad things she's done to me including the racist remarks, false accusations, etc. I admitted that I sometimes said, "So you're saying I'm sleeping with other girls?" because the first half of our relationship was riddled with accusations. She thought I fancied everyone and accused me of sleeping or wanting to sleep with numerous females friends, girls in bars, girls at work, etc. on a regular basis. That's not trust, and without trust, there really is no relationship. I told her her lack of affection, lack of empathy, constant accusations, name-calling, dumping, etc. all were hurtful. I showed her love, took her out all the time, paid for absolutely everything, made all the effort, etc. She wouldn't even pick me up from the hospital without complaining after an operation I had on my toe. And then she kept just saying "it's only a toe" even though I was in agony. Someone said the fact she didn't even come to The Priory or any of my early counselling sessions with me is completely uncaring. It's a thing called effort, and she made none for me.I told her I admit I'll probably miss her a little over the next few weeks or months, but her behaviour recently and especially last night has made it much easier for me. I told her I hate to see her cry yet she seems to think I enjoy it. It was seeing her cry the first time that made me sad and I gave her money for food for the kids. But she spends all her money going out getting drunk, everyone sees that - they say she's always out and she's got kids! So, I told her I can't feel sorry for her anymore as she does it to herself. I said she will be in a relationship again before long, but will soon realise what hurt really is and how difficult it truly is to find a decent match out there. I told her I know what I want, and I know how to get it and I just wish she was more experienced so she realised these things too. I told her there's more to a guy than just how interested he is in you. You have to ask how well does he know you, does he just see an easy target who displays herself on Facebook, is he going to satisfy you emotionally, passionately, mentally, physically, etc.? She knows we had all of this, but I'm now in the lucky position of being in Canary Wharf/London and I probably won't be single for long. I told her I tried hard with her, but my efforts proved wasted and I hope she'll realise one day.I told her the reason I'm saying all this is because she seems to have this unrealistic view of the world and that a knight in shining armour (from her small town!) will come along and make everything right. But it doesn't happen - she's in competition with girls who have less baggage, have ambition and drive, desire to learn and do things, always happy and jovial; she needs to lower her expectations. In a few years, she'll be in her late twenties and I don't want her falling deeper into the hole she's in. I told her I want her to get out and be the girl I thought she could be, the girl I tried to help make something of her life.Last night truly showed her true self. After I left, I spoke to her through her bedroom window and she showed off in front of her friend (who was on the phone) and her sister by talking to me like dirt - it just demonstrated her childish nature. I told her if that's the true you, I don't want to know. And this is why she has no friends.Time to move on. Feel much better - not 100%, but certain realisations vis-à-vis the above will make things better, easier, quicker.Thanks again for all your worldly advice.
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A
female
reader, deejuliet  +, writes (18 December 2008):
 Yes, you do deserve to be shown love and affection. It is not something you should just KNOW as you have said, it is something you should be shown on a consistent basis. Quite often it is the little things that show this ~ folding your laundry for you, massaging your feet after a long day, doing an activity that you normally wouldnt do, and going to counciling ~ even if you dont think you need it. You went to counciling at her insistence, not because you felt you needed it, but because she wanted it. Now, when you ask her to join you she refuses because she doesnt think she needs it. HUGE red flag!!! Absolutely HUGE!! From everything you have told us I would say she DEFINATELY needs to go to counciling and yet she refuses, insisting that there is nothing wrong with her, only you. You are to take responsability for everything wrong with the relationship and with her life. This is patently unfair and completely one sided. As much as it hurts, you really need to run just as fast as your little legs will carry you.
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A
female
reader, susan852  +, writes (17 December 2008):
hi,
to be honest i think you need to move on it sounds like yes she has issues but you have to! u are a 30 year old man she is a 21 year old girl she is still a baby she is still growing and learning about life and in life people go in and come out of relationships all the time that is how you learn and grow!! and also as you say has only ever been in 1 other relationship before you she still has a lot to learn and more relationships to come! you keep going on about how nasty she is ect... then let her go!! i think u are just holding on because she is attractive slim ect...
leave her to live her young life and you live yours it sounds like from your story it would be for the best!
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A
male
reader, Crafter +, writes (17 December 2008):
There are all kinds of freaks out there. And when I say freaks I mean all of us. Nobody is normal by any standards or does what they are supposed to, but I'd still expect to get some love back if I give any. It's okay to be more tough or independent, but to me she just looks indifferent to your suffering.
Should you receive as much as you give? Probably although that's something rare. To get nothing other than tantrums, constant mistrust and heart ache... it doesn't much feel like love from where I stand. Of course that's just me and I could be wrong about the whole thing.
Here's the thing however:
If in your heart you feel this is right and your love is unconditional then why are you here asking us?
I think it's because, what first seemed like a storm in a glass, has now grown to full scale tornado and you've got a hard time hanging on to, what more and more seems to be, nothing. You give and you try, but all the effort goes into the wind and empowers it to grow stronger and more devastating.
By being forgiving and patient you feed her insecurities and allow her to do whatever she pleases without giving a second thought. She's like a criminal with full pardon after ever new crime.
Don't know about you, Jason, but I think this has to stop. For both yours and her sake. Breaking up is not the only option, but sticking with her... don't know. It just doesn't seem like a good idea.
It's your call, chief. All the best.
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A
male
reader, X-treem +, writes (17 December 2008):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks Crafter, just been reading your other answers to other questions, you give good advice.
I still miss her a lot, and keep going between accepting everything everyone is saying (both on here and my friends in real life who know me and the situation well - all seem to say I'm far better than to be with her), and wanting her back. She's not emotionless by any means, but she puts on a very brave face. For example, on Sunday when it all kicked off with her ex-boyfriend and I found out she slept with him last week, then me again on Saturday night, as I told her all the harsh home truths about herself and her life, her face remained like stone, but tears came from her eyes consistently - and she's not the crying type, not in front of people especially.
I know she cares about me, but is unable to express or demonstrate it. I went missing for 24 hours once after my car broke down and phone battery died, and she tried frantically to get in touch, and sent me texts and e-mails asking if I was ok, etc. and that she was really worried. This is normal behaviour anyway, I accept that. But it shows she's not completely uncaring. But then, when we split up a few months ago, she said to me, "You're just a Paki anyway," because I have dark skin due to being half-Mauritian. She later said this was to try and hurt me, but didn't mean it at all. I forgave her.
I know everyone says I should get out of it, but I am an extremely principled person and am of the notion that if I KNOW she cares and loves me, as long as I KNOW (from text, things she's said during the hard times we've had), I don't require it to be shown - to me, that would just be a nice bonus. Is this right? Or should I expect to be shown as much love and affection as I give out?
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A
male
reader, Crafter +, writes (17 December 2008):
Here's an afterthought, Jason - save yourself.
Nobody deserves the kind of relationship which robs you of everything and gives nothing in return.
I am positive you can do way better for yourself if you can break the cycle and get out of this vicious circle.
Best of luck
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A
male
reader, X-treem +, writes (17 December 2008):
X-treem is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks to everyone who's helped me so far. To answer some of the questions you asked about my situation...pvtguy: I'm no longer a stripper and stopped doing that long before I met my ex-girlfriend. But she does bring up my past a lot in order to make issues out of nothing. Her kids are twins from her one and only previous boyfriend of five years. She fell out of love with him, and admits now she never really loved him compared to me. But judging from everyone else's responses, my path is clear. Run away!Ask oldersister: The counselling is something I agreed to go to for her benefit mainly, to demonstrate I was doing something about what she perceived as an "anger management" problem I had, due to simply tipping her hi-fi on the floor as I explained, and going on and on when she refused to communicate with me after accusing me of stuff. However, I have continued going to counselling on a monthly basis to deal with my anxiety issues as a result of all this. I have asked her to attend with me too, but she refuses to believe she has any issues whatsoever and doesn't want to go to see any counsellor or go for relationship guidance.Crafter: Yes, I put ALL the effort in, not only in the relationship (doing all the travelling, showing all the love and affection, etc.), but also when things went wrong. I went out of my way to put things right and resolve all our issues, including arranging counselling for me and talking to her family. She never did anything like that at all.Everyone, thank you all for your words of inspiration, and any more afterthoughts on the matter will of course be very welcome.Thanks,Jason
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A
female
reader, deejuliet +, writes (16 December 2008):
The only positive things you had to say about this young woman are that she is beautiful ~ physically. Other than her physical beauty you mentioned not one redeeming quality. She is lazy, insecure, demanding, cold, delusional, irrational, self centered, and has a great sence of entitlement. You feel what you think is love for her, but really I think you feel like a superhero who will rescue her. You cannot save her. She needs to save HERSELF! Walk away now while you still can. Yes, you feel great pain right now and you probably will for awhile. You feel like a failure because you could not rescue her and make it all better. If you stay with this woman you will only let yourself in for more pain and more agony and I dont think you deserve this. It will be hard, but I really think you need to cut all ties with this young lady and move on. Do not try to stay in touch as that will only prolong your pain and she will be asking for money since she has no job and two kids and using the children as pawns to suck you back in. Yes, you are flogging a very, very dead horse if you stay.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 December 2008): After hearing your description of this girl I'm not quite sure what you see in her. It sounds like you have a desire to rescue, and you found the perfect candidate to save. But this is not true love, this is a co-dependent relationship. She has lots of needs and you're there to help her out, to make a good life for her and her kids which she seems unable to do herself. This dynamic fulfills an unhealthy need in both of you. The terrible pain you're feeling right now is not the loss of love, but the loss of being unable to feed your own needs.
I'm not a psychiatrist, but I really think this is your problem with this woman. I've always been in this kind of relationship myself. I'm the rescuer, a very attractive and vital woman who could have lots of guys. But I always go for the ones who are down and out in some way, who NEED me rather than love me. I've done a lot of reading and soul searching, and deep down I think it comes from a fear of abandonment. If you go for the one that needs you, they're more likely to stay in the relationship. But nonetheless, at some point the relationships always end because they aren't healthy.
Whether this is really your problem or not, I'm sure you can do lots better than this woman with her whole host of problems. At some point your constant having to bolster her up is going to wear on you horribly. You will NOT have a lifetime of happiness with her, it will more more of the same, always and forever. Look after you first and foremost, leave her alone and find someone you don't have to fix. Good luck!
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A
male
reader, Crafter +, writes (16 December 2008):
That was a long material there, pal.
I'm gonna spill a quote from "Good Will Hunting" that went something like "bla-bla it's important if you're perfect for each other". So are you?
There comes a time when you should be able to evaluate the situation and draw the line. It's math really.
Is there enough happiness to keep the sadness away when you're with her? Cause if there isn't then it's not really worth it, is it? Sure that it will be hard at first. You can't expect to break up with her and feel righteous about it, but in time you'll get use to it and then get over it.
This girl of yours has some serious issues. Yeah, she's been through a lot and maybe that's the reason, but a girl with no emotions? Don't take this the wrong way, because I mean no harm, but it sounds to me like you cry and feel for both of you and that is not how it should be.
You obviously tried on several occasions to fix things, but did she? Exactly how much effort did you put in your relationship? How much effort did she put? What are the odds? 90:10?
It also looks as if you're with her, because you're trying to fix her and that never leads to anything beneficial. She's the one that has to do the work. You can provide support, understanding, patience, but don't offer your health (both mental and physical) and don't be a slave. If this girl can't make up her own mind then neither God, Queen and Country can.
From what I gather I think you'll be far better off on your own for a while and then you can try to find a girl that will respond to your generosity, your will, your stripper body.
Best of luck, mate.
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