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writes:I had a relationship with a much younger woman I was 41, she was 17. It didn't work out, though I did not do anything wrong except decide we were not that compatible and arrive at the conclusion there was something not quite right about it! I regret the whole thing and not been in a relationship since, but raised two children on my own and now a grand-parent.With the Rolf Harris thing, should I be beating myself up about it, or just get on with my life? I'm not in anyway a sex offender I do have a concept of consent and I have always practiced good consent, and the whole Harris trial and outcome and damage he has done is abhorrent to me. Reply to this Question
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 July 2014): I loved Rolf Harris as a kiddie :-( I loved Jimmy Saville too and wrote a letter to him as a kid wanting to take part on "Jim Will Fix It". Two icons of British TV who we all thought, at least with Rolf, that they were decent honest people. Now we know they did some sickening things and ruined many lives. Its hard to believe that someone like that could behave that way and everyone I speak to is shocked by this news. A relative of mine met him a few times (Harris) and thought he was adorable and purchased a piece of his art work. Now his reputation is in tatters and he has shown his true colours and a nation is shocked. As others have said - its made us all aware now of the terrible things that go on at the hands of child abusers who pose as decent, upstanding people. We think of chid abusers as being very different from the reality. Rolf Harris painted for the Queen and was married for many years to his beloved wife. With public awareness now rightly focused on adults having sexual relationships with young people and children, we all have to ensure that as adults we don't cross any lines (morally or legally) that could impact on us in that way. We must also ensure that our own choices, especially those made as adults, are not adversely effecting vulnerable young people. A 41 year old male having sex with a 17 year old child is, for me at least, a concern. Yes the girl was over the age of consent (16) but she is still a child or was at the time I mean. The distinction between a child and an adult, and those able to make a decent choice when it comes to sex, may not be clear cut BUT why would you at 41 want a "relationship" with a child of 17? I am younger than 41 and I see 17 year olds as being children. I would not sleep worth someone of that age as it wouldn't feel right. Hopefully, having realized your mistake (although this was after sex), you will put it behind you and never get involved with children again.
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reader, Mark1978 +, writes (3 July 2014):
 Me again OP.
Im am writing not only to answer your question, which i will get to eventually I promise, but also highlight a massive problem now that many outside of the UK will not be aware of that SHOULD be reaching a wider audience. Its a problem that highlights in no uncertain terms that child molesters and those who take advantage of children and young peoples innocence are not just your clichéd, sweaty, perverted loners we image would fit such a profile, or suspicious characters we as adults wouldn't trust...far from it!
In the wake of the Rolf Harris scandal, which my previous post explains more fully, society here in the UK is far more aware this last few weeks of; younger peoples vulnerability, and I include young adults, the extent of those being abused, groomed or taken advantage of by grown adults, and the cover ups and scandals surrounding such appalling crimes.
As a brit who grew up in the 80s with fond memories of tv shows like "Rolfs Cartoon Time" and "Jim 'll Fix It", I am sick, angry and fucking disgusted not only that Jimmy Saville in particular, and now it seems Rolf Harris, abused so many victims, but also that they were ALLOWED to do so by so many within the Tv industry who KNEW their habits but turned a blind eye because of their seemingly "untouchable" star status.
For those with children especially, it is shocking and appalling for us to suddenly discover the extent and the nature of the abuse that these men in the public eye, with perfect reputations and millions of fans, were allowed to get away with. People we TRUSTED with our metaphorical childhood, and in many case quite literally with our children.
With so many well LOVED and respected TV stars having allegations of sex offences made against them in such a short space of time, and several of our most cherished TV personalities now being charged and found guilty under "Operation Yew Tree", its fair to say the UK has had a massive wake up call. People like Jimmy Saville, who gave millions to charity, who was recognised as an upstanding member of our society, who millions trusted and revered, and who was Knighted by the Queen - was raping, abusing and grooming children, young toddlers, elderly victims, terminally ill children, men women, boys and girls by the hundred...and was even given special access to the morgue in a hospital to cater for his fetish of sex with corpses of all ages. His number of victims runs into hundreds, possibly thousands over many decades. Now Rolf Harris of all people has been found guilty with more charges to come!
Jimmy Saville was always a bit odd, Max Clifford, the PR guru who also is now in jail, not really a surprise if im honest as he always had a shady side to him, but Rolf Harris? ROLF HARRIS? Please no! Dont make it true please, but i know that it is. That is hard to stomach and makes us all feel taken in by a public façade that hid dark secrets and appalling crimes. They each believed they could have it all as and when they liked, and they didn't think their actions had moral consequences. They weren't answerable to them because their fame made them untouchable.
One of the points that has been raised since the Harris/Saville cases is that of Consent. It is all well and good giving that consent IF you are making a sensible, adult decision. Many of the victims of the celebrities were over the age of consent at the time, and gave that consent, only to realize later that they were in awe of, and extremely flattered by, being offered sex by a tv personality and went along with it.
All three men passed themselves off as child protectors – Savilles safety belt campaigns are well remembered with the line "clunk click, every trip", as was the fact he looking after the vulnerable at Stoke Mandeville hospital (a disguise for sex abuse). Clifford helped send Jonathan King to jail for downloading child pornography while himself taking part in abuse. Harris used his persona and voice to campaign on television against child sex abuse with a song about 13 year olds bodies while abusing a girl of that same age himself.
These were not shift fellers hanging round schools, or men in cars asking youngsters if they wanted to see new born puppies, neither were they your clichéd, sweaty, dodgy perverted types we wouldn't want our child going any were near....they were superstars, loved, respected and trusted. In the case of Harris, someone NOBODY in a million years would believe capable of hurting a fly let alone abusing his daughters young friend and many other young girls. This is a man we all wanted to be our uncle, our father, an almost father Christmas like persona and public image. A man who fronted the tv show Animal Hospital and had us all in tears as he tearfully broke the news that an abused kitten had died during treatment.
These peodaphiles are people who have been, in the case of Saville, Knighted by the Queen of England Elizabeth II, and in Harris's case painted the royal portrait of the Queen which hung in Buckingham Palace. This abuse didn't go on behind closed doors, in the bushes or on derelict waste ground, nor was it in foster care or boarding schools....it went on at the BBC, the biggest televison network service in the UK, in dressing rooms, on set, in hospitals, in morgues, in children's homes the celebrity in question was a patron of.
Anyone who has followed the story, which is headline news, is stunned. Stunned that this went on in the open by people we would never, ever suspect capable of doing a fraction of their crimes. We have all become majorly aware of those who may be around our children and are questioning those we trusted from our own childhood. We are also now acutely aware that those how committed such abuse, even when perpetrated many decades ago, are now being held to account.
Now I come to your case OP. Yes the latest scandals in the news have highlighted abuse and made us aware that those who take advantage could be made to pay even many years later, but I don't think for a moment that is something for you to worry about.
Here in the UK the age of sexual consent is 16. The law states that it is perfectly legal to have sex with ANYONE who is on, or past, their 16th birthday, as long as you yourself are also over 16 and both people consent to sex.
In my opinion the current laws are overly simplistic and unfair. To assume everyone has, from their 16th birthday, the maturity to deal with sex, its consequences physically and emotionally, and has the understanding of what they are doing and its possible effects is clearly wrong. Some 16 or 17 year olds are in no way ready for sex or fully understanding of the fact It could have life changing consequences. Some 15 year olds are probably very level headed and more prepared. Yet a naïve, childish 16 year old can legally have sex, while a mature, sensible 15 year old cannot.
Yet to judge every individual as to their suitability to have sex and handle the consequences is pretty much impossible. Some people are mature in some ways, not in others, and its sometimes the level headed individual that falls apart when things go wrong, and the childish, naïve individual who finds maturity beyond their years in the same situation.
Short of having a "maturity" or "emotional readiness" test, which of course would be difficult to devise, the only solution is to have the one size fits all, draw a line in the sand, solution. Its the only one that works or is at least workable. Therefore, in the UK, the age of consent is 16. If the 17 year old you slept with had consenting sex with you then legally there is little that can be done. Put it behind you and never do that kind of things again.
Should you be beating yourself up? No because what Saville, Clifford, Harris, etc did was very different. However I do question your judgement and your maturity at the time.
Most people over the age of around 25 would see a 17 year old as being a kid. Legally they are a child and we all become very aware as we get into our twenties of how naïve and innocent we ALL are at 16/17. I would call into question the motives and maturity of any man in his forties who feels he can make a relationship work with a kid of 17. The difference in life experience, maturity, ability to deal with the consequences and so on is HUGE, or at least it should be. Plus what a man in his 40s wants from life, relationships and socialising should be very different from a kid of 17.
To have sex with a 17 year old when you are 41 is not illegal but morally I would be unhappy with it. You, as a fully fledged adult, were having sex with a child. She may have been level headed, mature, etc but (and again I refer to the one size fits all system) she is legally a child, a kid, until she reaches 18.
In the wake of recent news events, I would never condone any adult having sex with a child. Even if both are over the age of 16. Ok if you are 18 and your partner 17 then its a bit different, and I admit the distinction between moral and immoral is very blurred and hard to draw a line at, but 41 and 17? To me that is too much.
At 17 we all think we understand the consequences of our actions, we think we know how we feel and what we want, we see ourselves as grown up and mature, but the truth is that most of us at 17 are naive, feel immortal, think bad things only happen to others and do things because we are easily influenced rather than because we think its right. We look up to older people who flirt with us and shower us with affection as it makes us feel mature and respected at a time when our parents and most other people are treating us like a kid. She may have given her consent, but she was not making an adult decision. She was making the decision of a child.
Move on and don't beat yourself up, but just be aware that what you did, although far from illegal (and very different from the high profile stories in the press), wasn't going to bring anything good upon either of you. Concentrate on ADULTS to have relationships with.
Mark
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 July 2014): I'm not sure what your question is either. In the US, 17 is underage and it would be illegal. I think it was a huge mistake as 17, imo, is too young to have a sexual relationship or to give consent to one regardless of legal age and at 41 you should know that. The age difference just makes it pretty creepy even if there is no abuse, because the age difference is undue influence and a form of abuse imo.
I guess you did realize that eventually and that is why you ended it, so you did the right thing. It was a mistake, but you rectified it in some way by not carrying it on, however anyone in their 30's-40's should know better, so that suggests you were immature yourself in some way to want a relationship with a teenager.
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reader, Mark1978 +, writes (3 July 2014):
Your case is very different to Rolf.
As a bit of background to those unfamiliar - here in the UK over the last couple of years, some of Britains well respected, much loved Tv stars, who many of us have fond memories of from our own childhoods, have been investigated for alleged child sex offences. Many of these well loved, charity donating, people who did so much publically to help children have been found guilty of child sex offences.
Right now in the UK the whole issue of paedophiles and concerns around consent and young/old relationships has been highlighted big time.
Sir Jimmy Saville, I will say that again "SIR" Jimmy Saville, friend of Princess Diana, the highest paid Tv star of the 80s, childrens tv presenter (host) has become known posthumously as possibly the Uks worst ever child sex offender. Hundreds of victims, the BBC (the uks biggest tv network provider) allegedly covering up his actions, victims from 5 to 85. Details this week include sex with corpses in morgues and strange goings on in his role as ambassador to schools and hospitals. Including sex with deseperately ill young children.
Now the highly loved, respected and fondly remembered Rolf Harris 84, the famous Australian long term Uk resident and talented artist, who has painted portraits of the Queen, and who introduced generations of youngsters to Art and cartoons has been found Guilty of several sex offences against young people over several decades, more possibly to come. Max Clifford, the hugely influential Newspaper/media baron has been found guilty of sex offences....the list goes on.
The public are shocked and are in a state of disbelief...these are people who have been close to the Royal family, Saville was Knighted, Harris awarded an OBE, two huge stars of MY childhood, known as ace childrens tv presenters with a loyal fan base and many, many loving fans....disgraced and revealed.
With this in mind I absolutely understand where the Op is coming from. One of the issues that has risen in the wake of the Saville/Harris/Clifford et al cases is that of consent. How many 17 year olds would say no to sex with a highly loved, famous tv star? Im sure many would be flattered and made to feel very special if a big tv star made a move in private. Yet at that young, impressionable age its easy to let that feeling of awe and the persons star status get in the way of a sensible decision.
That doesn't answer your question, I will do that in a short while as I now have to pop out, but it gives background to others who many not know about shiny track suit wearing, cigar chomping weirdos or bearded Aussies who we once TRUSTED who are now been show to be vile, sick and depraved.
Mark
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 July 2014): Of course not unless you did something explicitly illegal, she was legal age so it's not anything immoral or illegal just a bad idea that you put an end to.
You were never going to work out, the age difference was too severe. But 17 year olds are more than capable of sexual consent and also well able to date without being taken advantage of.
Move on, OP and don't worry about it. I've done plenty of bad shit in my life, nothing illegal thankfully in terms of relationships but I have hurt quite a few women. There's no point dwelling on that kind of stuff because the way you make things better is by making your next relationship better with the lessons you've learned from your past.
In other words, OP, stay away from teenagers.
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reader, Honeypie  +, writes (3 July 2014):
 I don't think 41/17 is at all a smart pairing. One (the 41 year old) has had a LOT of life experience, work experience and relationship experience the 17 none (at least none to speak off).
However, should you now, 10? years later beat yourself up that you dated a teenager? I don't see the point. Hopefully you learned that a 41 year old do not have THAT much in common that a relationship would be in any way shape or form healthy or even.
Do YOU having dated a 17 year old compare to Rolf Harris's case? HE groomed a 13 year old (among MANY of his victims) and he USED his FAME to abuse VERY young girls and to keep them quiet?
I don't think so.
Some GIRLS/Young Women thinks being with an older man is the WAY to go, because HE would know how to treat a lady, he would be "safe", he would make more money and so forth. So if the case with YOUR young lady was one where SHE WANTED this relationship as much as you did I say stop beating yourself up, because she might have BEEN one of these girls who have the notion that older is better.
Also STOP beating yourself up, YOU didn't continue dating YOUNG girls.
I would say I think after age 25 most age difference (upwards)doesn't matter.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 July 2014): I'm not sure what your question is. I'm not familiar with the story, and I'm assuming you are just starting to feel guilt of some kind. If that's the case, then just reach out to her to apologize or something like that. Move on. It sounds like you ended the relationship fairly early, so be thankful that you did not keep her from any of her life goals. I'll tell you that from my own experience, I was involved with two men who were considerably older than I was, and I feel good about only one of them. That one was just a one night stand. He left it at that and didn't bother me afterward. Later, we ended up having something of a friendship and he is actually the only person I can be around and forget we ever did anything. I was also preyed upon by a 51 year old when I was 17. I came from an abused home, and he used that to his advantage. He put me down, discouraged me from pursuing my goals, and stood in the way of my applying to the university I wanted to attend. For seven years, he guilted me into staying with him. The moment I really started planning my break was when we were watching a documentary about a man in Syracuse, NY who locked women in a dungeon. When the women discussed their experiences, I couldn't believe how many of the sicko's strategies my ex was using. I don't know if this is helpful, but my point is that you let your girl go. You probably didn't hang onto her for seven years. You realized she was too young, and you gave her the space to pursue her goals and build her life. If you feel guilt, then maybe apologize or something, but you should also feel good that you ended it when you did.
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