A
male
age
26-29,
*bjectivist Thinker
writes:Hello. I am a very strong Objectivist. I really beleive in it, and have an attitude of "If the world does not care, screw them" and "No people, no welfare, no emotions". I end up hating myself for loving/liking people and becoming attached to them, and I worry I'll drive people away b/c of this. I keep it to myself, but whenever I say I love someone, even my family, I don't feel like I mean it or actually know what love is, and it hurts me. Also, I want to be a musician (like a metal/punk/rock band), and I worry this will affect my relationships as well. I want to love someone (and currently feel in love with someone, which bothers me a little), and am worried about these things, and am also worried b/c I feel I cannot love people. Reply to this Question
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (28 April 2009): Well I think you've gotten some good advice. I just wanted to point out that there is an Ayn Rand dating and networking site where you might go to bounce some of these ideas off other people who are into what you are into. I think a good, stern mentor is just the thing you need.
www.theatlasphere.com
I'm the anon poster from the very beginning and all your replies have again made me think of Asperger's. I might be mistaken, but you could consider a test for that.
A
male
reader, Objectivist Thinker +, writes (28 April 2009):
Objectivist Thinker is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell, I have a girl in mind, but I hate the very thought of loving her, it makes me feel vulnerable. All I want to do is hate people, or dislike them. I NEVER want to be in love with them. I can'st stand the thought. I do not like the very prospect of positive emotion. I believe meaning is made by individuals. I feel she'd reject me. I also see relationships at my age as pointless, as It'd probably be brief, and then after graduation I'd probably never see whoever it was again. I do not believe in nihilism entirely, though I cannot stand the thought of seeing myself gushing over another human being going "I love you, I love you, You're so pretty, You're so smart, I'll never leave you, I'll be with you forever etc.". It seems like an excuse for people to verify themselves in the eyes of those who have no right to verify them.
Also, do you mean how I came upon Objectivism or the concept of relationships being bad? I developed the later myself, but the first came after reading Ayn Rand's works.
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A
female
reader, Share Bear  +, writes (27 April 2009):
I suspect that there certainly CAN be light at the end of this tunnel, providing that you meet an appropriate girl and let yourself develop deep enough feelings and relationship with her.
It’s not an easy path of thought that you are following, however, since it often conflicts with much of social reality.
I'm curious to know what it is that you believe/ are exploring. Is it anything closer to absurdism/ nihilism if you're struck upon there being no intrinsic 'meaning' to the world?
I think the available light at the end of the tunnel of this route is simply that we create our own meaning- and love may very well be it!
I'm curious as to what you want though- you said that you
'worry I'll drive people away b/c of this.'
-But then you seem to imply that you'd rather actually do that since;
'I'd rather never love someone in my life yet love material things than people.'
What is your ideal? -What do you want?
How did you come to develop an interest in this? Excuse me for saying, but you're quite young, and I would be concerned if you'd merely come across it on the internet where conceptual theories can easily be blown out of proportion. -Sometimes concepts, no matter how interesting as theory and as a safe escape from the anxiety of pressured or failed relationships, should remain a theory to investigate, rather than as hard fact reality until you have established (through time and experience) how they work in parallel with your real life.
In some respects, this may be the sort of theory one might move towards after developing a tired/ jaded/ bitter attitude AFTER a few decades of failed relationships. However, if you START your relationships assuming they can never survive these issues, you may end up stiffling them before they have chance to prove you wrong?
I certainly don't mean to patronise you with any accusations of teenage angst, and you’re clearly very intelligent; I'd just hate you to give up before you've begun.
Admittedly, the pessimist is never disappointed, but perhaps some element of patience might be prudent until you find the right girl/ relationship to disprove the lack of any (creatable) meaning?
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A
female
reader, b.rye +, writes (27 April 2009):
 Excuse my frankness, but a little maturity will go a long way for you. You are very young and have yet to experience the irony of reality and the many idiosyncrocies of the world. Here is a bit of advice: when you seek out advice from other's about an issue you're having, listen and decide whether or not you want to follow it or not. Don't argue with the people you're asking advice from. It's insulting and shows a lack of personal awareness and respect on your part. You certainly do not practice "objectivism".
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A
female
reader, pebble +, writes (27 April 2009):
 So what exactly do you want us to say to you then?You say your problem is you cannot love people and then you say you'd rather not love people. You're going to end up very sad and very alone and it's going to affect EVERY relationship you have but that's your belief and no one should make you change that unless you want to.What exactly is your problem?
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male
reader, Objectivist Thinker +, writes (27 April 2009):
Objectivist Thinker is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm not saying I can't, or that the PHILOSOPHY is against it, I'm saying I am. I hate loving people, and I'd rather never love someone in my life yet love material things than people.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 April 2009): I think you need to go back and re-explore a few Objectivist principles. I am an Objectivist myself, and a few of your comments clearly show that you're misinterpreting some of Rand's philosophy. Nowhere in any of her writings, interviews, or other works does she state that emotions, especially love, are against Objectivism. In fact, she finds love to be one of the highest virtues of man.
Please don't think that being Objectivist means that you cannot be compassionate, considering, or capable of loving someone. These feelings, however, must be logical and in accordance with your values. Therefore, saying that you are "bothered" by falling in love with someone and worrying that it will affect your life negatively is not in accordance with Objectivism at all, as long as the person you are involved with is on your level morally and logically.
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A
male
reader, Objectivist Thinker +, writes (26 April 2009):
Objectivist Thinker is verified as being by the original poster of the questionFirst, I'd prefer you'd not pray for me, I'm an atheist, which is another facet of Objectivism. Objectivism doesn't mean literal "being disattached". It is a capitalist philosophy, also atheist, founded by Ayn Rand and perpetuated through the characters in her books/fiction/etc.
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A
female
reader, EbonyBlossom +, writes (26 April 2009):
 Is your belief working for you? Do you truly believe in it? You'll never have proof if you don't experiment by developing close relationships. We all need someone close, nobody can get by on their own. And as they say, 'better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.' And yeah, relationships end, but as one door closes another door opens, through experience I truly believe that =]
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female
reader, b.rye +, writes (26 April 2009):
Being objective doesn't necessarily mean "If the world does not care, skrew them". It's a way of perceiving the world without allowing one's own feelings to be directly involved. It's about perceiving all the different ways an object, person or situation can be viewed and not being attached to its outcome. Being in this state of mind can possibly cause attachment and closeness difficulties, but it can also be used as a tool to better your relationships because you will make sure you do your best to see things from another's point of view. It sounds to me that you suffer from not understanding your feelings, rather than the feelings themselves. From what I can tell in your short paragraph, it seems that some counseling would be of some great help to you (ironically, counselors are objective parties) to assist you in organizing your thoughts and feelings in a way that you can understand them and interpret them appropriately. When you understand what you feel and why you feel it, you have a much better chance of fixing and/or enhancing situations in your life that can be stressful.
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reader, anonymous, writes (26 April 2009): I thinkbthat if you reread that question, you'd find the answer for yourself. Will it affect relationships? I'd say yes, certainly. You said yourself the you end up hating yourself for loving people!
I think that is ultimately sad that for trying to attain happiness through social bonds you end up in self conflict. Humans are social creatures. We need other people. That can't be disputed because I can prove it--people fall in love. Love isn't a bad thing, in this day and age, it's what draws us to reproduce and carry on all of humanity with a next generation.
Do other creatures love? I don't know, I'm not one of them. But any organism that does not reproduce asexually needs others for their existence.
So that you constantly endure this self-flagellation for feeling human emotions and making bonds, I think that's very upsetting. I'm not trying to change what you think, just offer perspective. Just think, if you were to fall madly in love, the receiver of said love would constantly feel guilty for causing you internal torment, thereby subjucting them to your own misery. That affects relationships if anything ever could, dear.
I sincerely hope this helped. Might you permit me to keep you in my prayers, because this story saddens me so greatly and I'd love for you to find a productive solution?
Best of the best of luck,
-GG
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A
male
reader, Objectivist Thinker +, writes (26 April 2009):
Objectivist Thinker is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAlso, there is a girl I like, I just started a few hours ago, she's who I was talking about in the last post. I'm worried that these things will interfere in a relationship with her and myself. Also, I'm horrible at small-talk and I am not sure how to get close to her. She just seems to have a good "aura". Also, she's quiet/shy, while I'm crazy/spastic around poeple in my "age group". I attribute it to a lack of intellectual stimulation with them. I am fine around older people.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 April 2009): I'm not sure what you're asking, but just so you know, generally the term "objectivist" isn't something people would call someone with no "people, no welfare, no emotions". The term is usually associated with Ayn Rand and her fiction/philosophy. She doesn't actually advocate the particular attitude it seems you have.
It sounds, quite frankly, that you are hurting and having problems with dissociation. Maybe you are depressed, maybe you have Aspergers, maybe you are just pubescent?
At any rate, I would point out that if you truly were so cold and dead inside as you are making out, then you wouldn't be worried about how future relationships would be, would you? You wouldn't care. But you do care and you are here asking for help.
I would suggest that you swallow your pride and ask for help. Maybe you are more intelligent than your peers and your parents don't understand you, but don't get bogged down in labelling yourself, don't dream up this identity that is far removed from everyone else.
You are a human being, and you will suffer like everyone else on this earth as you grow and learn and change. As you grow older you will gain perspective. If you have questions, go out into the world and ask them ,and learn. Read, do research. And don't fall into the trap of thinking that your problems and pain are unique. Alienation is a common human emotion. I hope you find the strength and integrity to push through these rough adolescent years :)
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