A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:Why do "nice" guys complain that girls never want them when what the problem REALLY is, is that they keep going for the same type of girl? They're doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome. What I mean by the same type of girl is the girls usually look similar (stereotypically beautiful, not unique in any way). And their personalities are similar as well. They think girls like being treated badly. Yet they only get attracted to girls who either won't give them the time of day, or friend zone them in favor of a "bad boy". How is THAT any different than a girl who only wants to date guys who treat her badly? I'm not trying to be an ass, either. I'm genuinely curious. If you are a guy who thinks this way, can't you see you are guilty of the very thing you accuse these girls of? And why do you expect a different outcome when you won't change the type of girl you approach? I get that you can't help what you're attracted to. Yet did it ever occur to you that you could BECOME attracted to a girl you weren't initially attracted to? Reply to this Question
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male
reader, Fatherly Advice +, writes (20 July 2014):
 Male Annon,
While what you are describing is common it is not the situation we are talking about. We aren't talking about a nice guy who is abandoned as his girl returns to an abusive partner. We are talking about guys who keep going back after the girls who aren't good for them. Similar to girls who get into abusive relationships one after another, There is a certain class of guy who is constantly seeking the wrong type of girl. The girl who is self absorbed. The girl who is using a guy to improve her own social standing. He is constantly getting rejected not because of his bad qualities, but because he can't make her look better to her friends. He isn't interesting enough. Unfortunately interesting often (but not always)comes with abuse, addictions,and general A - Holiness.
Our OP is not one of those girls (we think). She is just tired of hearing her nice guy friends whine about their rejections, when it is obvious to her what they are continuously doing wrong.
As for advice to the nice guy who got his heart broken: Don't open your self up so fast. Know what a rebound is, and be more cautious. Hold back a little, girls like a bit of mystery any way so it serves you well as protection and as keeping her interested.
FA
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (19 July 2014): Hello girls, I know a lot of you, think am full of it, but hey women do go after the same kind of guys over an over again.let's say you have been with a guy for a long time, an he treats you like shit,he is controlling,demanding, is never there for you, always out with the guys, don't want to do things you would like to do, like go to a play, walk in a park, hold hands, garage sales, tag sales, shopping, where you can take your time, go out to eat where you want to go, he gets drunk all the time, an expects you to wait on him, all the time, doesn't help with the house, dishes, laundry,doesnt pick up after him self,so when you break up, you meet a new guy, wow, he is romantic, cares about things about you, but you are not use to this kind of treatment, you don't think you deserve to be treated like this, cause the other had you beat down so bad, you don't like to look in the mirror, you think you are fat an ugly, but you are beautiful, but what happens , you go back to the guy, cause that is what you are use too,so you break the good guys heart, who treated you like you are suppose to be treated.so you hope the bad guy will change, why should he , he knows he has you where he wants you, so girls yo u deserve what you get, cause you broke a good guys heart who still misses you, an he wonders what he did wrong, when all he wanted was to make you feel good, an loved with all of his heart.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (19 July 2014): We say "women like tall guys" because its statistically true. It does not mean they like the tallest guys they can possibly get, but it means they would rather have a guy who is a bit taller than average. Therefore we believe "women like tall guys" is a fair generalization to make. Women like jerks more than nice guys. Its true. They don't like the biggest jerks they can find but they respond better to guys a bit too jerky than too nice. Therefore "women like jerks more than nice guys" is a fair generalization to make.
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female
reader, Staceily +, writes (17 July 2014):
 I was actually thinking about this the other day with a show I was watching. The guy was definitely the stereotypical "nice guy" and I found myself thinking of the statement nice guys finish last. I don't find the guy appealing at all, nor did the female on the show because he was sent home.
I think it's a few things all contributing to this. One being, we want what we can't have. So some men want girls out of their league and some women want bad boys they think they can change. Sometimes there is an appeal in the object of your affection not being all that into you. Not that this is true for everyone of course but it is a saying for a reason.
Something else I have noticed. Some "nice guys" are downright door mats. Some are insecure and allow themselves to be used or appear too over eager. That is not appealing to most women. Confidence is attractive. Some women confuse arrogance with confidence, but regardless. Women want a guy who will stand up for himself and is sure of himself. Self described nice guys will bend over backwards and think that's what makes a guy nice, it isn't so. Allowing yourself to be used isn't an attractive quality.
The guys and girls who make these stereotypical comments are insecure with themselves. It makes you feel better to tell yourself "he just chooses bitches" or "she only goes for the bad guys and doesn't notice how great I am". More than likely you aren't attractive to the other person for any number of reasons and that should be enough to let you move on. But it's easier and builds you up more to tell yourself it's the other person's fault for lack of interest, no changing or soul searching required that way, so there you go.
Also, I love a statement in honeypie's post- "douche canoe". I'm going to use that one.
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (17 July 2014):
 Round of applauses for Fatherly Advice, I feel he is SO right.
I don't think any woman in their right mind would reject a guy BECAUSE he is nice and BECAUSE he is polite. I don't recall any woman yet,right off the top of my hat, who'd see being polite, well mannered, clean, honest, reliable, etc. etc. , NICE in a world, as a big MINUS- and if these women there are, well,I wonder who'd want to date them anyway.
But one thing is nice - with a personality , a dignity nd a backbone, and another is being , or coming off as, creepy ,fawning, a pushover, or worse a fake. Someone who acts goody goody to get into your good graces or into your bed.
There is something like, too much of a good thing...
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male
reader, Fatherly Advice +, writes (17 July 2014):
OK OK I'm back and Frustrated.
BTW Imissfutruerama, Thanks for joining and making a name, it makes it easier for us to relate to you.
I have known a few "nice guys" who can't get a date. They are nice and polite by their standards, What they really are by everyone else's in the world's standard is Creepy and obsequious. You know the guy you walk into the room and without even saying anything you want to be on the opposite wall. Maybe I'm wrong, but the overwhelming evidence of my own experience say's no nice guys do fine.
I'm nice but I don't fawn. Get the difference?
FA
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (17 July 2014): lets be fair it can be human nature to 'want what you cant have' it has always been this for ages. ( I know people grow out of this but it is very common ) and another thing is some 'nice guys' are just nice guys because its there nature!!
But its human nature for a girl to want a chap that is more upfront masculine , cocky . same as a lot of blokes prefer a girly girl over a tom boy.
And also a bloke who is getting more girls , is getting more sex which again gives off a good vibe, to which people can tell. And visa versa with guys who aren't , they give off a negative vibe.
so a lot is down to how we are as humans anyway
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (17 July 2014):
 I agree with Tisha (again)
To male anon... I don't think a woman looks at a GOOD guy/NICE guy and says oh he is no challenge, let me go for an abusive nasty piece of work!!
The REASON a woman turn down a guy (or a man turns down a woman) is because they feel something is missing. For some it might be passion, shared hobbies, same political, religious, ethical view, it might be something SIMPLE as a spark. Doesn't mean they reject ALL nice guys. JUST that one. Finding a long term mate is pretty much hit and miss. Some find one in first go, others well, they have to try a few more times to find someone suitable.
And honestly, I think the "bad boys" have to go through a LOT more women then a nice guy, because not all women will put up with BS either.
My husband is DEFINITELY a nice guy, but he is still (after 18, almost 19 years together) a challenge. And yes, like everyone else, he can be less then perfect, JUST like me.
Being nice doesn't give anyone any special entitlements.
And trust me, EVERYONE meets rejection.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (17 July 2014):
 Dear anon male reader:"well a nice guy isn't a challenge," Bull-twinkies.I'm married to a nice guy. He was a challenge. He took his time to get to know me. My guy wasn't f'ed over by women, because he did not stick around for bad treatment. Just as we tell women on here not to tolerate bad treatment by men, no man should tolerate being f'ed over....The problem I see with this 'nice guy' label is that the guy basically hands his heart over before doing due diligence. He gets hung up on a woman and then wonders why he's being ignored.The 'friend-zone' is simply this, to any 'nice guy' who is wondering: the woman you want to have sex and/or date doesn't want to have sex with you and/or date you.If you took a really honest look around you would find that you have 'friend-zoned' your platonic female friends.... You like this girl Xena but she's not hot, she's kind of odd and not hot and none of your friends want to bang her and okay, she has the worst case of acne EVER.
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female
reader, ImissFuturama +, writes (17 July 2014):
 Thank you, male anon, for sharing your thoughts. You're right, some girls see bad boys as a challenge. In my opinion, they're irritating and obnoxious, and I don't want to deal with the hassle. I have a partner who is what you described in a nice guy, and I wouldn't dream of cheating on him, or treating him like crap.
No, it's not always the guy's fault, and I realize that. It is in the case of my friends. It's something that's been getting to me lately. The longer they're single the more they complain.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (17 July 2014): I don't think it's a case of always going for the same type of girl. I think alot of it is confidence I mean the typical nice guy has been rejected alot of times for being too nice or to polite. I mean I'm not hideous and manage to attract the girls I like, and I don't go for barbie girls, I like girls with personality also. No my issue is I am simply naff and lost my confidence with them yet when I've had girlfriends,I've had girls be obvious and try it on with me now nothing hardly lol
But yeah so the more you get rejected the harder it is to approach a girl, you seem to loose that cheeky chap approach which girls like.
So.Maybe that could also be a reason
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (17 July 2014): Here is the difference:
A moderately attractive girl will not get more guys just by being a bitch. Guys might look past the attitude if she is pretty but they don't get attracted to her because of it.
A moderately attractive guy can be MORE ATTRACTIVE to girls with a jerk attitude. Not every girl is like this but a whole lot of them are.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (17 July 2014): Well young lady's, I've read what you all have said, now I like to stick up for the nice guys who are nice guys, who get f over by women, who say they want to meet a good guy, but when they do , well a nice guy isn't a challenge, he isn't going to screw around behind your back, he will always be their for you,you dont have to worry where he is at, he will spend money on you, you won't have to always be spending your money, he will always be saying nice sweet things to you, when you say to him that you love him, he will say it back, or say it first,and girls you do like bad boys more, a nice guy will want to hold hands, an walk in a park with you, your guys would rather be out with the boys getting drunk, am the guy who all my friends come an talk to about thier relationships,more, women then men, you get a bunch of women together, an ask them for the truth,they will say they want to meet a nice guy, but then they will say they will treat them like shit, but a bad boy they will fall in love,but my self I don't go for the most beautiful women, I like plain Jane's, with glasses, I like to hug, cuddle write poems, make a women feel happy an wanted, bad boys make it really hard on us good guys, so I get tired of women who says, it's our faults, the next time you see a couple walking down the street holding hands, hey that's a nice guy, were out here, quit looking to change a bad boy.
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female
reader, ImissFuturama +, writes (16 July 2014):
Hi, it's the OP again. I decided to make an account, because I use this site enough I don't want to post anonymously anymore. Anyhow, that is probably true, Honeypie. They blame the girls because it makes them feel better about themselves, and I guess I can't really expect them to admit that. Female anon, thank you for your perspective on this. I see what you're saying. The main thing I was trying to point out is guys shouldn't get frustrated about girls who like to be treated badly, because they are the same ones to complain about either being blown off by a girl, or being cheated on by every girl they date. So it would seem they like being treated badly, too. I realize I was stereotyping quite a bit, but I felt I had to so this post would make sense.
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (16 July 2014):
I think your friends rather make this about the girls then about THEMSELVES.
As in... the GIRLS (they want) don't want them so they are just So Out of Luck - instead of realizing that MAYBE the type of girl they are chasing is NOT for them.
It's easier to whine then to act, basically.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2014): 'What I mean by the same type of girl is the girls usually look similar (stereotypically beautiful, not unique in any way). And their personalities are similar as well.'A 'look' stereotypical or not does not have any bearing on personality. The way you speak disparagingly of stereotypically beautiful women who choose to make the most of what they have is in itself stereotypical and really doesn't help anyone other than to comfort people who feel less than perfect.People can choose whoever they like on whatever basis they like and if their preference narrows down their pool of partners to choose from well tough luck ya know. You can't ask people to change their taste. Ofcourse if they expect someone who cares about looks then they too should hit the gym and develop the same values as the people they are attracted to. What is a nice guy anyway? This is such an overused term that means absolutely nothing. I'm sure every man has a mother who thinks he is a nice guy.Labelling people as nice guy or bad boy or stereotypical beauty with no personality is pointless because you can't meaningfully lump people into groups like this.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2014): *Hi, this is the OP.*
Thanks for your replies, I knew I couldn't be the only one wondering about this!
It's not even like I expect guys to go after overweight girls, or girls with horrible acne. What gets me is they pass up on girls that just aren't stunningly beautiful. I know everyone has the right to have standards. For example, if I were to sit around all day eating Cheetos in my underwear, I couldn't expect guys to flock to my door because of my "big heart".
Pretty women who have clear skin, fine-normal hair, dress nicely, and are a good weight for their frame get overlooked. Instead they want the girl who goes the extra mile to be as beautiful as possible. The one who goes tanning regularly, has extensions in her hair, and can't leave the house without her eyeliner. On top of that, they seem to be oblivious to this stuff, and call her a "natural" beauty.
I have a partner, so it's not a personal issue. The problem is I have guy friends who complain they can't find someone. Yet they won't listen when I suggest they go after women who aren't a ten, and they never answer my question when I ask why not.
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A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice +, writes (16 July 2014):
Wow, I just had a oh Duh moment. I have always believed this. as long as I can remember. Girls just like dangerous bad boy types. Then as I was reading the OP and all the replys I started thinking about my own experience.
I've always considered myself a nice guy. I do wear black leather jackets but I'm hardly edgy. I was in sports in High school, but not the popular sports. Third string football, Wrestling and Track (sprinting and a bit of Throwing. I'm short 5'5".
But I never had a time when I couldn't find a date. Heck one of the hottest girls in HS wanted to date me but I friend zoned her. And that was OK.
I always said that the thing I found most interesting in a Girl was one who was interested in me. Yes I'm passive.
Conclusion: Honey is right it is stereotypical bull excrement. If I could do that well, it is possible.
FA
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2014): I recall a conversation that I had with my brother and friend of his some years ago. They were lamenting the fact that "alpha females" (as they put it) were never interested in "beta males" such as themselves but always went after "alpha males". They never had any luck.
When I piped up "What about the beta females?" and they both looked at me as if I was crazy! But neither of them had a sufficient answer.
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (16 July 2014):
I too fully agree with you.
I find it absolutely TIRESOME when I hear the term "good guys finish last" or all girls want a bad boy" because they are BOTH so stereotypical bullshit as you can get.
I have dated 4 men in my life - 3 were without doubt good guys. 1 was just a douche-canoe. NONE were "bad boys". Most of my female friends never went for the "bad boy" type either and a couple of these women are all out stunning.
As for good guys and friend zoned, I think it's a two fold complication. 1. they PRESUME that only pretty girls are worth dating and that they DESERVE a GF because they are good guys. And like Daniel Radcliffe (Harry Potter) said in a great interview:
"The idea of the friend zone is a terrible male idea. I definitely think the idea of friend zone is just men going, 'This woman won't have sex with me.'"
That is it in a nutshell.
Now does it mean that "good guys" so "settle" for the less attractive females? Not at all, but maybe if they are as SMART as they are "good" they will realize that there i a LOT more to a partner then his/her looks.
And in all honesty... WHAT guy with ANY self respect WANTS a girl who rather be with some smug abusive bad boy?
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2014): You shouldn't be anonymous! ;) I wrote the same thing (in my own words, obviously) for a paper when the topic was "why do self-confessed nice guys/girls stay single for so long when they desperately want a relationship and blame it on the opposite sex?"
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2014): What's happening is that they're approaching girls who don't want to date or don't want to date THEM. Quite honestly, you're super-hot girls who KNOW they're hot know they can pick/reject who they want and they don't CARE about feelings. (I do know some super-hot girls who are really sweet and ARE looking and DO care about feelings, but they're attitude is more along the lines of, "Oh, I'm pretty enough but nothing special"). The seemingly interested girls who flirt/mess around/let guys take her out just like being chased (I said something similar in an earlier post). Once someone "gets" them, they don't know what to do with themselves because the fun is over now. (they no longer have the upper hand). Those girls are the worst because they are selfish and leading people on, but they SEEM really sweet until they turn around and dump a guy out of nowhere. Then you have the girls who really AREN'T interested. They hang out with a guy, sometimes let him buy her things, but generally don't initiate any touching outside a hug and they SEEM like they're flirting because they laugh a lot, but they're really just friend zoning and act entirely surprised when the guy expresses interest.The bottom line, OP, is that "nice guys" keep approaching women who have no interest but the nice guys mistake friendliness for interest and users for girls who are interested.
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female
reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (16 July 2014):
 I really like this post I'm sure it will be referred to many many times in the future as we get so many of these "guys/girls won't give me a chance" postings.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2014): I actually knew once a guy like that. Always complained how nice he isand Girls don't like him. But in fact him being in his late 30s , only liked girls hardly out of their teens. Wheni mentioned this fact to him, that he seriously probably close o their fathers age, he said he can not be with a woman his age because a woman his age won't be able to be compatible wh him, ( whatever that means).
I think he is still single.
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male
reader, olderthandirt  +, writes (16 July 2014):
 I know what you mean, I remember back when i was in high school..yes they had schools back then. Thr "jocks"(ball player atheletes) all dated the "eye candy" girls and the nerds like me felt left out. Things haven't changed that much and I guess it never will. Oh well, maturity leads to evolution of the eye. Soon these same guys will look a little deeper and then
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2014): I think we can't help who we are attracted to. But I agree with you though that a lot "nice" men want bitchy, dishonest, cheating women, regardless of looks in some cases, rather than someone who who is kind hearted, honest and who wants a good relationship. My brother is with someone like this now, there are other reasons as well though. A lot of nice guys also turn out not to be all that nice.
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female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (16 July 2014):
Lol, OP, then I must be an ass too then, because I have written here more or less the same many times...
As soon as a poster complains " girls won't give me a chance just because I am not tall, dark nd handsome and I do not have a six pack / a fancy car. I am a nice guy but they don't care... ) I stop them dead in their tracks with :
WHICH girls are we talking about ? What kind of girls ? ALL girls ?...
Most probably, NOT. They mean " hot " girls, pretty girls, popular girls, eye candy girls. The same nice guys who complain that they are overlooked in favour of rivals who only have flashier, superficial advantages ( muscles, height, big car ...) are the very same who would not be caught dead with an overweight girl, a girl with thick glasses, a girl with acne, a girl who dresses frumpy... no matter how sensitive, nice, kind, intelligent and wonderful she could turn out to be, at times they KNOW she IS great , but still, thanks but no thanks.
What an irony uh ? I agree with you, maybe you just CAN'T help being attracted to what you are attracted to , our senses want what they want and they are stubborn- but at least, well, don't kvetch about shallowness, right :)?....
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