A
female
age
26-29,
anonymous
writes:Please help me! I am so sick of people trying to play match maker but every group of friends I've had and even random co workers and relatives and people I go to church with are always trying HARD to set me up with someone.I have had a lot of boyfriends, but I've always had to be the bad guy and dump them. Then, they refuse to be dumped because I don't have a good enough reason "I don't want a boyfriend". See, NO ONE has asked me if I wanted to be their girlfriend, it just becomes ASSUMED that we're dating at some point. In high school, even with youth-group kids, I had met some guys, we were hanging out with a bunch of people, and I would get giddy and silly and I LOVED IT. But then someone would ruin it by basically not shutting up about how we liked each other and how I didn't mean it when I said I didn't want a boyfriend and that I just wanted to date around because I "wasn't like that" and that they only liked me and respected me BECAUSE I wasn't like that.So as soon as I found out everyone assumed I was dating, I would dump the guy. The nicest guy took 45 minutes to accept that he was being dumped because he kept knocking down every reason for breaking up with him. Really MOST of them didn't do anything wrong at all so I really was dumping them because I missed my friends, (I was spending too much time with boyfriends, I mean like TWICE A WEEK for TWO HOURS EACH wasn't enough time for them), and I missed the freedom to flirt and talk about how cute guys were (I hung out with youth group kids and if you had a boyfriend it was considered cheating if you flirted with someone or talked about how cute someone was).When I got to college last year, as soon as I started enjoying the freedom of being single, whoever I was flirting with got mad if I didn't give them my number so my friends would give it to him FOR me and then the guy would be GLUED to my side and NOT leave me alone. All I wanted to do was flirt and have that be the end of it! I mean, I'm more mature NOW but when I was in high school the main reason I didn't want a boyfriend (besides losing my freedom) was that I didn't WANT to make out with anyone. I just wanted to flirt and date and hang out. That was IT! I straight TOLD people this over and over and over and they STILL didn't get it or they told me I wasn't like that or that I was dumb. Now that I'm in college, everyone expects me to have sex or something or do oral and I don't know how many times I've done both just to shut the guys up and then they REFUSE to be dumped because they make ME the bad guy for it because I have no reason to dump them (no one has EVER asked me if I want to be their girlfriend, it just becomes ASSUMED ... even my female friends literally go out of their WAY to set me up with people after I have said over and over that I don't WANT to have a boyfriend. I just want to flirt and DATE) How hard is that for people to understand? What am I doing wrong that no one is getting it?Guys always fall into three categories 1. they just want a one night stand (which means oral or sex) 2. they want a girlfriend (which means having oral or sex) 3. they DO want to "just date around" but they defeat the point by expecting me to put out in some fashion.I do go to church where most of the people wait until marriage, but they're WAY over the top (worse than the youth group kids from HS) and won't even KISS until marriage. I'm talking about NEVER going on a date unless it's chaperoned by a friend and not even giving a side-ways hug because that's also a sin until marriage. Oh, and when I asked how you tell the difference between "just friends" and dating, they all looked at me like I was crazy and lectured me on how men and women are NEVER supposed to be just friends. If they are talking and hanging out, they are DATING.It seems like I'm getting told I'm wrong all the way around. I am not a mean or bad person. I LIKE talking and hanging out and flirting and having fun. That's IT. When a guy asks me to a movie or to his dorm to talk or something, that's what I EXPECT him to mean. If not, howcome people can't simply say they want to make out at some point or ask me on a date or ask me to be their girlfriend so I have the ability to say "No". Here is what I want:1.I want to flirt2.I want to go on dates3.I want to be able to do that with more than one person at a time, when I want to4.I do NOT want to make out or have sex or do ANYTHING physical until I am in a relationship5.I don't want a relationship BECAUSE I don't want to do anything physicalI don't think I should have to explain that to everyone who crosses my path and I'm afraid that if I do, they'll think I'm gay or something or they'll think it's a challenge. Please help me figure out how to get all that!
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (1 October 2014): OK, I am the anon poster and while you don't mean to be, you ARE very naïve. Some girls can be "just friends" with guys, but you are not one of those girls. Your personality is too feminine. If a female doesn't want a boyfriend, then that female shouldn't flirt! It sounds like you probably are asexual so I would take the advice and become friends with GAY males. That way, you "can" have your cake and eat it too. With females, of COURSE they set you up with guys. That's because you talk about how cute guys are and you have crushes. Really, you have to realize how obnoxious it is to watch people do that! They set you up BECAUSE you flirt. They do it (like I said previously) so you will STOP doing that! Honestly, no one wants to see that! If you want to be "just friends" with guys, then you need to ACT like one of the guys (no flirting). If you don't want your female friends to play match maker, then you need to STOP flirting. In other words, if you don't want sex or a boyfriend, then you stop flirting! I'm sorry, but that's the way it works
A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (28 September 2014):
 I see, OP... then you do have a problem , that honestly I don't know if it has a solution ( although, if you keep reading, I throw in a couple of suggestions further on ).
I think that the anon female reader covered the topic extensively- mind what she says. But I'll also add my 2 cents, just because .
- Yeah, basically you want it both ways- you want to have your cake and keep it too.
You like to flirt , you care about being complimented and getting attention and receiving reassurance and validation from a MALE's benevolent eye. It's not enough for you that your girlfriends would say " oh you look so hot ( or pretty, cute, etc... ) today ". You want to read that in a MALE glance. Not strange, and not wrong- it's biology, I guess ... The flowers and the bees etc. But ... then you don't want / need to go on with the rest of the program:), even minimally. You want to be a bit fussed and be reassured of your power of seduction, without really seducing anybody.
So, the problem is ... what's in it for them ? ... they'd have to give you attention, and sort of court you- but they are very unlikely to do that if they do not have sexual or emotional, ROMANTIC leanings toward you ( I don't want you to misconstrue me as saying that all men are pigs who just want a quick BJ, although apparently you have met a few ).
They would NOT give the kind of attention that you want to a woman they do not require sex / romance / physical or emotional intimacy from.
There would be no point, in treating you like a perspective partner, or a perspective date, when you actually are NOT.
- You will say : hey what about just my companionship ? Why can't we do the Mexican movie / Bruce Lee thing ?... Sure you can, but, like I said, you can't exactly plan it, you just have to let it happen IF and when you meet the right person for that .... and probably the energy, the atmosphere would be different from the one you want. Sure you can have male hang out buddies , or ONE male hang out buddy, why not- but he would see you, and treat you, more like one of the guys. That cool girl you don't have to be all mushy or flirty with, that you can treat just like another boy. Without "I am a woman / you are a man "- latent attraction undertones.
As a matter of fact, I think that there CAN be friendship between opposite genders- providing that there is NO latent attraction, no sexual romantic undertones whatsoever. That he thinks you are a total dog , lol .
Because when Harry met Sally... aww come on, we all could see it coming from miles afar, there was a lot of sensual tension under all the bickering, the bickering was in fact both a cover and a SYMPTOM of the sexual tension. So, ... no flirting, and no giddiness etc.,please. That would signal something different- particularly on one-on-one outings, and would lead to misunderstandings.
- Why can't I just flirt ?... Well, everything is sort of age - appropriate ( and context appropriate ).
Forget about the HS silly / giddy / giggly thing. If you are 13, or 15, yes, it does not mean anything, it's a game, it's a young girl doing womanhood dress rehearsal , it's playful, maybe it's biological, - nobody thinks that if you flirt you MUST mean business, it's a bit like you are having fun tryng on your mom's make up. At some level, males too will know it or perceive it, they'll try their luck with you , but , if you just want attention , or just want to play, that's Ok too.
At twenty - they are bound to misread your signals, because, as you have noticed, at you age, young women mean business, if they flirt ,they want something from a specific man, either sex, or a bf, or a relationship etc... all the things you do not want.
If for reasons of yours , if you don't want anything even remotely intimate , either physically or romantically or both- better not flirt. If you want platonic friends, act platonic.
So, where do you get what you want, a male companion that will give you, though, personal, individualized attention, and come on dates with you ?....
Well, the two things that I can suggest ( beside just, crossing your fingers, and hoping it just happens somehow ), are :
- there are dating sites for everything, including the weirdest fetishes !, so there are dating sites , or sections of dating sites, for " strictly platonic ", or " friends only ". I don't know if it works ( meaning, I suspect that a lot of people COULD say they want platonic, and then try their moves on you nevertheless ) but, I really don't know, I could not say. You could post, and say the truth - that although you are happily single and want to stay single, no sex and no mushy stuff, yet you are sick and tired to hang out with females only, and you'd welcome some male energy and companionship to go out on more " structured " activities ; a dinner, a theatre show, a visit to an art gallery... You never know, there may be some guy who feels the same as you. Wants to be single , ( and fulfills his sexual needs somewhere else )- but, he is tired of being always around men.
Careful, though- dating sites are a minefield for the inexperienced. Then again, like I just said, if people resort to Internet for finding the strangest people with the strangest fetishes- why not for finding a guy , or more guys, to go out with platonically.
- you will think I am making fun of you, but I am actually serious : you need to hang out with gay males, to make gay male friends. Not the kind of gay guys who are gay because they hate women, of course- the kind of gay guys ( they are many ) who are fascinated by the female universe, for all BUT sexually, and feel comfy and at ease in it, sharing its interests and sensitivities. You see, a gay male is anyway a male, and , I don't know if it's biological, cultural, or just an ingrained habit , will still act like a male, i.e. in a way that your besr female friend might not . He will be protective , he'll make sure you get safely to your car or your taxi, he will tell off that pesky drunk guy who's bothering you, he'll open doors for you ( if he is a well mannered guy ), he will notice your new dress : and he will compliment your excellent cleavage or gorgeous legs- he just will not wish to TOUCH them. So, it will be like being out with the girls- yet not just exactly, if you know what I mean.
Anyway- I am curious to know, if you don't mind, how long do you see this situation lasting. Meaning, supposing you find some cool guys to go out with and give you attention.... do you see yourself ever becoming more interested in sex in future ? it's just that you haven't met the right person yet, or you are elaborating bad past experiences, or are a late bloomer.... ? Or, do you think you may be asexual ?... And, how would you think you'd concile your disinterest for sexual and emotional intimacy, with what seem to be a keen " social " / intellectual interest for the opposite sex ?...
I mean, apparently you are far from saying, F...k all males of this world , I'll be happy with my girlfriends and my two ( female :) cats. In fact, you seem rather depending from male approval / validation / interest in you to feel good and fulfilled. Any idea how would you deal with this apparent contraddiction ? ...
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 September 2014): Honey. People are "always" trying to set you up with a boyfriend BECAUSE you flirt. See, if you have a boyfriend you won't BE talking about how cute some guy is and you won't be flirting (unless you're cheating, from the youthgroup kids perspective). That's WHY they are trying to set you up ... so you WON'T do those things. It hurts guys when you flirt with them and mess around and then say you're not interested. it's MEAN to do that!!!!! (I do NOT think you are mean, just naïve). You have to understand that while YOU think it's fun to flirt/date around, MOST guys fall into two categories (a) the guy who IS looking and who gets genuinely HURT when someone (you) leads him on (and you may not mean to but by flirting and letting him date you [as in pay for your dinner etc.] IS leading him on) or (b) a guy who pretty well ONLY wants to make out or more. You basically are saying that you want a non-sexual guy-friend that you can treat as one of your girlfriends who acts as the "default date" to school dances or something. Someone who gives you attention or affection or boosts your ego by telling you you are pretty.the problem here is that if you got all that, YOU would be the only one benefiting. YOU would eb the only person getting something out of it. It sounds to me that you can't HANDLE having guy friends because you want to flirt and get the attention and treat them like female friends. YOU CAN'T DO THAT! Not "you" specifically, but ONE can't do that. No one can have their cake and eat it too! But that's what YOU want but you are WAY too nice a person (I can tell from your post) to pull it off. So basically: Stop. Stop with the flirting. stop with the silly, cute-sie, giddy, goofy annoying (and BELIEVE ME! I have seen it, it is ANNOYING to watch people act like that) thing. Unless you're "one of the guys" you AREN'T going to be just platonic friends. You just plain won't You are getting set up with guys because by flirting and dating (which is done to GAIN a relationship or at least casual "something physical"), you are expressing interstif you do not want sex or making out, that is TOTALLY OKAY! But if that's what you really don't want, that means that YOU SHOULD NOT FLIRT AND GO ON DATES. I know you're a good person, but please: STOP TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 September 2014): Yes, Miss Cindycares, I can clarify for you (sorry about the misinformation on my birth year, I must have typed in wrong and didn't notice - I am 20).1. I "dump" guys I am dating because it becomes ASSUMED that we area dating. As soon as it becomes assumed we are dating, I try to dump them. in HS, I would get all silly w guys and my female friends (and him) would assume that we were together and NOT allow me to say that we were not. I think it was because we flirted hardcore (without touching) and he was the only one I liked. Basically, as soon as I found out we were dating, I lost my crush They did NOTHING wrong. I said "for me, it's fun just to have a CRUSH on someone!" but that fell on deaf ears2. I can give you an example of how I went out with Ritchie and Kenny one-on-one. I mean, they were both part of my circle of friends (in the way that you just basically sit at the same lunch table and that we were all in cross country and debate team) so it wasn't weird for either of them to have people over to watch a movie on TV with some pizza or shoot pool in someone's gramma's basement. Anyway, one time, Ritchie called me and asked if I wanted to come over and shoot pool or something and maybe get some Chinese and I just assumed that everyone would be there like they always were. I should of realized something was weird because there was room on the street to park and the garage was closed (his daddy had a three-car garage with two flat screens, a stocked bar, a pool table, an air-hockey table and all that). Well, when I got inside, I asked where everyone was and he said his parents were out of town and that everyone was busy. I didn't WANT to make out with him, but I didn't want to embarrass him at the time. I went with it (just making out) but I was uncomfortable. After we finally played one game of pool I went home. He thought I was his girlfriend. I don't know why. Similar thing happened with Kenny, only it was at the County Fair and I truly believed he was letting me help him with his goats before showing them but it turned into something different. Does that make sense?3. Yes, pretty much. When I hung out with those guys (all of them, HS and college) I thought we were platonic friends, that was IT! yes, I got a little giddy around them but like I said in my first point, that was IT! And as soon as I realized we were considered dating, I lost my crush on them! It stopped being FUN because then if you have a boyfriend you cannot talk about how cute someone is or flirt with anyone else and you have to at least make out with them. it ruined it!4. You were talking about Mexican food or Bruce Lee movies or something for platonic friends ... I agree! That is why we would go running or shoot pool or play air hockey or something! It was mostly in groups, but I am not opposed to going to dinner. If HE pays, I will try to pay for SOMTHING the next time, just to prove that we are EQUALS and JUST FRIENDS without having to be the jerk about the whole thing. But no matter what circle of friends I hang with (from the youth group crowd or the party crowd) NO ONE can stand seeing me single.5. Not sure how to answer your last few questions. I do not want a boyfriend because;5.a: I no longer (in whatever group I hang with) have the freedom to talk about how cute someone is or flirt with someone or get all silly and giddy with someone because it's "cheating" (at the worst) and "mean" at the best. 5.b: Once I AM in a relationship, the most chaste guy on the planet AT LEAST wants to kiss. I hate sex (I tried it), I HATE oral even more (I had to run away and throw up and when someone almost went down on me he made fun of me for not shaving and said that I should have known to do that ... I didn't ever hear of that), and I don't even like to kiss! That is the MAIN REASON I do not want a boyfriend. I do NOT want to be obligated to KISS!6. I guess basically I want a platonic guy friend I can get all silly with, not have to touch, and just hang out with one-on-one. It seems like I accidentally give the wrong impression to THEM and I don't know why. I dress more conservatively than most of my friends (my skirts hit somewhere between just below the knee and calf-length and I NEVER wear britches, my tops always have sleeves to mid-bicep and never hit more than two inches below the collar bone and I NEVER show my belly or back. I do not wear heels or make up and while my hair is just barely long enough to sit on, I do not use products on it other than to clean it or pull it off my face). I NEVER bring up sex, I change the subject if someone does, and I do NOT touch males at all unless they say something pervy or stupid and I wack them in the bicep. really, I mostly just want to have a friend. And I like to flirt. Innocently. why do people think they have to ruin things for me?
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 September 2014): OP here:
for the record, I am 20 years old. I must have typed the date in wrong or something, I'm sorry! I have just started my second year at college.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (27 September 2014):
Regardless of your detailed post, I admit I am still a bit confused. My bad, probably.
I don't understand how can you " dump " guys if you aren't dating, and how can you be dating if you aren't ( repeatedly ) going out with them one on one.
Or, do you mean, that you DO go with them one on one, and you accept ( although reluctantly or unenthusiastically ) to kiss them, make out or more, but they are not supposed to think that you are , or going to be, sort of an item ?...
Well, poor guys, what should they think. If after the first date you go back for more, they will assume that you are interested, and if you are interested, that you will WANT to kiss or more. Leading to a relationship or not, it's to be seen- but , if, after the first date, you don't say " no thanks, I am not interested, I do not want to go out with you / kiss you etc... " , and , in fact, you proceed doing exactly what you say you don't want , it's normal they get confused, who would not be.
But maybe I got it all wrong, forgive me then, it was sort of a complicated story :).
Unless you mean, instead , that you want MALE friends ? Platonic friends ? To see one on one ?...
Well, not that's impossible ,but I don't think you can order it like a pizza. It develops from the relationship, generally if you have male buddies with no romantic / sexual interests you hang out in a group, unless in time you find out that you two share a specific interest for, say, Mexican food , or Bruce Lee movies, so you get into the habit of having your weekly Mexican food night, or something like that.
In any case, it can't work if he is attracted to you as more than a friend or viceversa- because if either one is attracted , than eventually sex will rear his ugly head :) ( or, romance will rear is rosy-haloed head, maybe ... ) and the dynamics will change in a way that's undesired.
Once again, maybe I have misunderstood something, - but, although I am sure you have tried to be thorough and detailed, it sounds to me there's some logical passage which has been skipped :
-You want to go on dates. Multiple dates. Ok, got that.
- You don't want to do anything intimate until you are in a relationship. Got that too, a bit difficult if by nothing you literally mean nothing, not even kissing, but, never mind- the concept is very good, in fact it's what most Aunts recommend to the posters : don't rush it. MAKE THEM WAIT.
-But then..... you say , you don't even want a relationship... so you would be making them wait for what ?... Since you do not want a fling, do not want a lover , do not want a bf, and do not want a relationship... what THEY should be waiting for ?...
Could you please clarify a bit ?
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