A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:abortion is accepted in society now, its not an illegal act and a majority of people worldwide have had it. i understand that there are extreme ethical and social issues, and dont get me wrong, i dont aprove it, i would hate to kill a precious life.however, some people are just forced to do it, in some way or another.i have a friend who unfortunatly fell pregnant after being sexually abused by a member of her own family; who is now in legal custody behind bars. she finds it sick and disgusting to have the child, and shes well underage and unprepared for it. however, her and my family, being strong catholics, freak out when the world 'abortion'. they just dont understand what shes gong through, they actually expect her to have this child. i dont know why they are this extreme and to be honesty i feel my friend deserves her own opinion.
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (7 January 2012):
 @ Person 12345: You don't have to convince us, you have to convince the Pope.
In 1930 in his encyclical Casti Connubi Pope Pius XI officially condemned and prohibited all abortions, including therapeutic ones , as akin to murder. This position has been officially repeated and reinforced by subsequent Popes, in 1965, in 1987 , ...and the current Pope feels the same. What the Church did before , is not really relevant for a believer - you go by what you are told NOW: before Concilium of Trento ( 14th century ) priests were not obliged to chastity and celibacy , in fact they would routinely marry . Then, it became a big sin, and a big deal for which you can be defrocked.
Was it right before, is it right now ? The point is that
obedience is a BIG part of being a Catholic. You trust that the Church knows better, and there's a higher reason and meaning for all you are supposed to do , or not to do.
How can a Catholic obey and accept things that go against his knowledge, logic, and personal feelings - that's the
greatest challenge for any Catholic.
( And , the reason why I am not a Catholic in the country which " invented " the Catholic Roman Church.)
Just for the record, though, what you say is correct .. to some extent- i.e. for centuries the Church has been going back and forth between the theory of " delayed hominization " or ( one month, or 40 days, or even more after conception ) and that of " instant hominization " ( the very moment the gametes fuse together ). It's only in the second half of 19th century ( pope Pius IX ) that the second one took definitively hold against the first.
But , it's not that abortion was not a big deal even before, from a religious point of view. It was not judged as a sin of murder, (since there was no man to be killed yet)... but it was still always considered a major ,mortal sin along the centuries. Just, against the 6th Commandment, and not the 5th.
I think it's fair to ask, to demand in fact, that Catholics don't butt into the business of people from other religions, or agnostics, or atheists. But to ask them to see abortions by other Catholics under a totally laical, non religious light , I doubt that would be fair or respectful.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (7 January 2012): I'm a guy so I don't have an opinion. I will say though that you shouldn't take any guys opinion on abortion seriously, we can't have abortions or get pregnant so what do we know?
I came across a bunch of "pro-life" whackjobs the other day with my girlfriend. You know the ones who have posters with pictures of aborted foetus' and stuff in public places where little kids can see? Yeah assholes. Well my girlfriend decided ask to one of the guys there why he thought he had a right to dictate what women do with their bodies. He went on to talk about all that abortion is murder crap, so she told him she was having an abnormally heavy period at the moment and could he recommend which brand of sanitary towel is best for that, if he knows so much about women's bodies and what they should do with them he must have an opinion the menstrual cycle too. Needless to say we laughed our asses off and he quickly got annoyed and asked us to leave.
We love messing with those idiots because abortion is already illegal in Ireland so there's no need to stand around with pictures of mutilated foetus' places where kids can see. They have a right to their opinion but when their methods are that stupid and fucked up they have to mocked and challenged.
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A
female
reader, person12345  +, writes (7 January 2012):
 The law says it's not a life, medicine says it's not a life, biology says it's not a life, even the bible says it's not a life (actually in the bible it says babies aren't a life before 1 month of age after birth). I'm really not sure how it became a religious thing at all. That whole idea that a fetus was a life was started by hospitals in the early part of the 1900s in the US to try to steal business from midwives, not based on any medical, religious, or moral reason. Abortions were routinely practiced as a form of birth control before condoms were common. Just FYI.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (7 January 2012): abortion is a medical procedure. Simple, normal and accepted in most civilised places in the world by logical thinking people.
But for some they would rather see a pregnant child victmized and vilified and verbally manipulated by lies. A child under the age of consent cannot consent to sex. Therefore it is rape. A child under the age of consent is still in school. I find it
abusive thinking to dare to suggest such a child should be victimized further by having to go through the pregnancy and
through child birth when her body is too immature to cope with this.
It is religious dogma that fuels the anti abortion lobby, not logic and not compassion for a raped girl under the age of consent. And if a woman of any age chooses to have an abortion then she should always have that choice, and she does have that choice in countries where people learn to think for themselves, not just blindly follow outdated dogma.
Ignorance and lies are no foundation for a just society.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (7 January 2012): Abortion isn't wrong, its a solution for unwanted pregnacy, simple as that. people have been having abortions for thousands of years, using various methods. there is no reason to why people have to get so over emotional about it and start throwing out words like 'precious gift of life' and 'murder' and all that, its the mother's choice.
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A
female
reader, natasia  +, writes (6 January 2012):
 Your family and friends have a very straightforward belief: as soon as conception occurs, a life has been created. Ok, it starts out as a tiny little life, and develops into a baby, then is born, then develops through childhood to an adult, but the very beginning is the start of life. Within 6 weeks the heart is beating.
So, it makes logical sense that if you kill that life, you are committing a form of murder. There is no doubt about that.
And they believe that murder is never justified, even in an extreme situation like this. Think, for example, of how police all the time have to stop themselves from killing a criminal if they can, whatever the criminal is doing or has done - that is because murder would be wrong.
However, that doesn't help your friend, who is in an unbearable and unthinkable situation. I think forcing her to have the baby is really pretty bad and I feel v sorry for her. : (
I hope she will be ok.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (6 January 2012):
Because it makes perfect sense from a Catholic point of view. In the Catholic vision, life begins since the very moment sperm meets an egg and fecundates it. What from a merely scientific point of view may be an insentient conglomeration of few cells , for the Catholic church is a human being , therefore with the dignity and inviolability of any human life - regardless of the circumstances . And anyway human life belongs only to God, who 's the only one who gets to decide who dies, how and when.
I want to precise that I am not Catholic, I don't see it this way , and I think that in some cases ,like your friend's, abortion is the only possible and sensible choice.
But if I WERE Catholic, I'd probably see it like your parents. Embracing a religion is not a matter of " opinions ", it's a matter of faith. If you believe, you believe, - you don't pick and choose. You accept also the parts that are hard, inconvenient or disruptive for your own life.
Again, with all my heartfelt sympathy for this poor child and what she must be going through, I must say that your parents' position sounds coherent, not extreme, to me.
After all, if your friend had conceived regularly with her husband, and had given birth to some horribly deformed creature- let's say Siamese twins- she would not get to kill it because it inspires her disgust. The priority would not be protecting her feelings- it would be protecting the sacrality of human life.
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A
female
reader, person12345 +, writes (6 January 2012):
You say you are OK with abortion, but then go on to say you don't approve of it and that it's murder. I don't really understand your question. You express views of an anti-choice person (that abortion is wrong except in cases of rape and incest and is just generally ethically wrong) and then ask why other people are anti-choice, when you yourself are. Should women not be able to get abortions unless they've been raped or abused?
Also it doesn't make sense to say abortion is wrong except in cases of rape or incest because if you truly believe a fetus is a life, then you believe abortion is murder. And if you truly believed that you would think "murder" is always wrong, no matter what the circumstances. Your friend's parents are just more anti-choice than average, despite the fact that the bible directly says abortion is not murder.
Also this: "Mostly, I think it comes down to religion, not really ethics." is spot on. And this: "Because it's not THEM going through the pregnancy." is pretty much it. There are entire websites dedicated to collections of abortion clinics that have EXTREME anti-choice people come in believing they are somehow different from all the other women getting abortions.
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (6 January 2012):
 Because it's not THEM going through the pregnancy. Because to some babies are all rainbow and happy unicorns.
I'm pro- choice for sure. I couldn't do it myself (only in an extreme situation) but I do believe there would be a lot less neglected and abused children if abortions isn't so looked down upon.
Mostly, I think it comes down to religion, not really ethics.
I think your friend does deserve to make the choice herself. After all SHE was the one put through the abuse. I understand that the fetus is "innocent" and can be put up for adoption, but for a girl to have to go though first sexual abuse, then to HAVE to give birth - that is just plain cruel. Just look at the foster home system in the US, people keep saying oh, there are so many couples looking for a baby to adopt, yet the system is full of children ALREADY born and living with no one to want them.
I'm sorry for what your friend is going through.
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