A
female
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:Can somebody help me? Why are men so reluctant to get rid of their porn collection even when they say their girlfriend is enough and is beautiful? Everybody says something like everyone has fantasies what does that mean? They are looking at the same thing we've been doing. How is that a fantasy?
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female
reader, person12345  +, writes (4 April 2012):
 Cerberus, everything you're making continues to be a straw man argument. Do you really have so little material to work with that you have to find something else to argue about? I have yet to see you attempt to make an argument other than either that you like it so who cares what happens. Everything else is just grabbing at other things to argue about that have nothing whatsoever to do with the topic.
First off, you are comparing necessities (clothing, food, etc...) to a recreational drug. It's a ludicrous comparison.
Second off, no one buys the clothing or food or computers (computers ARE a necessity) thinking about the conditions of its production and having orgasms to it. With porn, you know full well you could be watching someone getting raped and are getting pleasure from it.
Third off and tied to second, people are not simply choosing to ignore the abuse. There is a preference out there for violent, degrading, humiliating, etc... porn.
Fourth off, exploitation is not the same as slavery or rape.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (2 April 2012): What I don't understand about people that talk about the abuse and violence that can, but not always does, occur in porn as the primary reason they dislike it, is how they then can use computers, cell phones, wear clothes, have diamonds, drive cars, drink coffee, coke use apple products and buy and use other products we know for certain are responsible for war, slavery, mass rape, genocide and exploitation on a scale that is inhuman and almost beyond comprehension.
http://www.cellular-news.com/coltan/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_diamond
http://killercoke.org/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2007/may/27/foodanddrink.food
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9006988/Mass-suicide-protest-at-Apple-manufacturer-Foxconn-factory.html
http://www.productsofslavery.org/
http://www.waronwant.org/campaigns/love-fashion-hate-sweatshops
"we don't all ignore them, I for one don't ignore it, but I think many do, it's called denial or just not caring."
By your logic you're in denial and just don't care about the millions of people that suffer brutally to make the clothes you wear, the coffee you drink and the electronics you own. The animals that suffer to create the medicines and cosmetics you use. Go ahead and list all the things you care about and don't use because of exploitation and I'll list all the things you do still use that are.
It seems you care more about porn than the people who actually suffer because if you cared about human suffering you'd walk around naked and wouldn't use a computer or even drive a car.
Everything we buy, own and use is drenched in the blood and tears if others, just because a guy or girl may use porn doesn't mean they're ignoring nor uncaring of the bad things that happen in it. Condemn us porn users all you want but you can be condemned along side us for all the things you use despite knowing the pain and suffering behind them.
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A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (2 April 2012):
 Reader anonymous, ignoring things goes two ways... you might have missed some of what I had to say about many people who work in porn and the sex industry, because they CHOOSE to. They aren't forced, they aren't victims, and they don't like anti-porn people who want to make them unemployed.
I have also watched documentaries about people in the sex industry. The latest one was shown on UK national television. The main problem seemed to be the boredom. The actors didn't talk like victims, they weren't underage, they knew what they were doing, and they were doing it because it paid more than the alternative. Many people in porn, in the sex industry talk the same way, and yes I've met such people during my working career.
Illegality in porn, yes lets make that a priority. Concentrate on making sure working conditions are good. Provide suitable employment, decent social care, health and education, for people who choose sex work, because society had left them little else. Raise the age limit on the actors, that would be helpful. Restrictions on supply (due to children) especially over the internet, that's where energy should be spent.
But to want to tell grown adults what to do, when they are not breaking any laws, telling people what they are allowed to fantasise about.. (you are wrong about violent sex, it is as old as human beings, as history and research will tell).. that is something else and isn't really appropriate in any type of democratic society.
"I believe porn was only legalized for filming in CA in the 1980's".... read some more... porn was only made illegal in the 18th century, before that, there was no legal ban at all. You really need to view some Roman and Greek stuff before you make such definite statements. Part of the problem with the current degrading nature of a lot of porn, is due to the anti-porn people who drove porn out of the cinemas and theatres. In the 1970's, porn had stories, bigger budgets, and some of the films got certification and reviewed. But legislation changed that, and it went back underground and became cheap, nasty and sensational. No plot, that costs money, just sex, and more sex, quantity not quality. Yes, it's a industry like any other, and we have the porn that society has created in it's attempts to drive it away.
As long as the argument is polarised into gender issues.. (men are bad, women are good) or porn is only associated with what men do... (women make and produce porn as well) As long as you say that all porn is the same, and make no distinction between soft porn, hard porn, illegal porn, and written porn... the argument gets no where, because it's about what you like vs. what other people like and doesn't actually deal with any of the harms at all.
Many women hate porn and have for a long time. Many people speak out against porn... and what has happened. Porn has driven the creation of most modern technologies, from the video camera, to the internet... Porn has now become mainstream and it's symbols are seen everywhere... the amount of women who dislike porn is going down not up... Those that hold totally anti-porn views are decreasing, not increasing.
Again, it might be related to the original question... People in the 21st century don't like to listen to people who tell them what to do or try to condemn, scare, or belittle them.
There is a proper discussion to be held into porn and it's affect on society... but no porn ever, because it's wicked, evil, you will become addicted and your dick will fall off, aint doing it for no one.. many of the anti-porn sites that used to exist all over the internet have closed down as I found out when I wanted to give it to an porn hating woman on here.
Like in many relationships where the woman hates porn and the man likes it.. trying to make people do what you want, will only turn them away. People say that porn is addictive, as if only one look will make you dependent on it for ever. Unfortunately to porn users, this sounds like the same nonsense as "masturbation makes hair grow on your palms." People look at porn all the time, then stop and don't use it for years, maybe they start again, maybe they don't, but they don't act like addicts and they don't feel like addicts, that's why they don't listen to "YOU ARE AN ADDICT" warnings. Same as trying to convince someone that a drink once a week, will turn you into an alcoholic..
Outlaw and ban porn if you want to, or if you can, many muslim countries have done that.. and what happens... ummmm... you can get porn, alcohol and anything else you want in any muslim country. Porn is available in prisons, in countries where it brings a jail sentence, guys have it in the army, on ships at sea. Telling 70% (men) 40% (women) that they are wrong, twisted or bad.. is trying to convince the majority of people that laws should only exist to suit the minority. The question of porn has been examined by politicians and it's still legal (and has been made legal as you reminded us) in many countries.. don't you think that there's a reason for that?
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (2 April 2012):
"how can we all just conveniently ignore these disturbing facts?"
we don't all ignore them, I for one don't ignore it, but I think many do, it's called denial or just not caring.
a lot of people don't give a damn who porn hurts as long as it gratifies them sexually. they don't give a damn if it is in many cases degrading and violent because it feeds their fantasies. Btw on this site and in the real world women in particular are regularly told that they are insecure or not open minded if they dislike porn or don't want their bf or husband watching it.
porn watchers don't care if these are fantasies that are fed to them by this industry- I don't think most young people naturally have violent sexual fantasies unless they have been exposed to this, if they do they need to steered away from that. they don't care or they're really not aware that they're being manipulated with progressively more violent and disturbing stuff, it is all about a power/ego thrill for them once they're hooked I guess. (I have seen one or two posts by young men who were disturbed by their porn use and the disgusting stuff in porn and they were basically told by men here that this was ok and to carry on as normal.)
porn users can do the forbidden in their head with porn and they simply don't care or they deny to themselves that real people are actually being hurt by this including themselves if they are addicted to it and their partners.
when some people are sexually aroused that is all they care about and somehow they are able to ignore all the rest, including imo, how truly unappealing the people in porn are, many are pretty damn creepy looking. I'm not a porn watcher but I have seen some soft porn when flipping through tv channels and I've watched a 2-3 films to see what it was about and I have watched a couple of documentaries more recently. I've seen some famous porn stars on tv here and there an various images of porn actors-they look kind of like a lot of long term prostitutes do, hardened. many porn workers use hard drugs in order to be able to do porn films, the ones who are willingly in this as a career. some porn workers also did or do prostitution.
I believe porn was only legalized for filming in CA in the 1980's, where most of the porn is now filmed, and there is currently only one other state in the US where it is legal to film porn, but this may change soon as CA is trying to enforce a condom rule now due to disease transmission.
the hook in porn is the arousal factor, many people don't give a damn what happens after that, and they just keep going. most people will be aroused by porn on some level so this is the hook for this industry. It's a multi billion dollar industry from what I have read, although profits have been hurting recently apparently. for this reason the porn industry is trying to make more violent, disturbing films which push people's limits to keep them hooked. there is a lot of online home porn or on the fringe porn which is supposedly even more disgusting and violent. there is no way porn will be outlawed with these kind of profits and if it is we may have another prohibition type situation or it may affect the economy.
Even if you're not hooked on porn and you don't watch hardcore porn you're still contributing to all of this.
there is a demand for porn, but it is is a manipulated audience imo, the audience has to wake up and stop using it, will this happen? I doubt it -because society is going to the lowest common denominator and no one really cares it seems, or not enough people do, it's the norm and if you disagree, you're a prude or you're insecure and so on.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (2 April 2012): @cerberus-I'm the female reader you responded to last, the one who said people shouldn't lie about their porn use.
I see what you mean, as in men don't lie about it to hurt their partners. But I've always been a really honest person, so I don't believe in lying to someone just to save their feelings. I've been called rude and too blunt because of this, but I'm not going to change who I am just to suit someone else. I'm also not going to lie to them about who I am, even in the beginning.
"Most guys would lie about it in the same way we would lie about noticing our partner gaining weight"
This kind of thing sounds dumb to me. A person should know if they're getting fat, not have to ask someone about it. If your clothes don't fit, and you feel bigger, then you've probably gained weight. I've had a few women ask me before if I think they've gained weight. And that's what I tell them. I don't care how it makes them feel because they asked. If they want to be lied to, I'm not the person to go to.
"Would you feel you must be honest about that and say "yes, all my exes were far better in bed" if it didn't really matter to you and you were perfectly happy with your sex life with him?"
This doesn't apply to me since I waited til marriage to have sex. I didn't wait for any reason other than so I wouldn't run into this problem. I know how sensitive a man can be about a woman's past, (similar to how women feel if they are aware of their man's porn use.) So I waited til marriage so I wouldn't have a "past" or any other man to compare my husband to. I dated plenty of men before him, but I never slept with any of them.
"You may not agree with the logic but it's an act of protection, protecting a person's feelings and protecting the relationship, it's not about trying to deny a woman anything."
You're right I don't agree, but I accept your opinion as well as others who have a different opinion than mine. Life wouldn't be much fun if everyone thought the exact same way.
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female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (1 April 2012):
 I think the female reader is referring to the dating, pre screening stage, and not people who are already in committed relationships. Although I find it hard that people would go into the porn subject like on the third date. We have that article here before and someone said that if you discuss this early on so you don't waste each other's time, then you look obsessed and uptight. Asking about smoking and drinking is fine, but sexuality is always taboo especially if it's women talking about it first, when dating is all supposed to be fun and lighthearted. Let's see if a person with a strong porn view can open up a dating site for pro porn people and anti porn people. We should match these people according to various view points.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 April 2012): "And by lying to her to deceive her into thinking you're someone who doesn't watch porn, you're taking away her right to be with someone who shares her viewpoint."
That's not the reason someone would lie about it in my experience. Most guys would lie about it in the same way we would lie about noticing our partner gaining weight. Should we also tell our girlfriends they've gotten fat so they can go find someone who shares their viewpoint? or is it acceptable to lie and say we haven't noticed, that they're not fat at all.
It's about protecting that person's feelings. To most guys porn is nothing, it's not even an issue so they'll just not bring it up, keep it hidden and if asked say a simple "no" once. Why let it become an issue? Why let it ruin a great relationship? It's a white lie designed to stop feeding a persons insecurity. It's the same as telling a guy who is insecure about his sexual prowess that your exes were better in bed? Would you feel you must be honest about that and say "yes, all my exes were far better in bed" if it didn't really matter to you and you were perfectly happy with your sex life with him? Or would you tell him that he's great in bed one of best you've had and you love him knowing that to not say that may hurt him and may fuck up your relationship?
Now you can argue about the comparative qualities all day, you can say you can't put porn into the same category as something like that, while technically that may be true for some women, I'm telling you as a fact that to a person who thinks lying about porn is okay, that's the reason they think it's okay. You may not agree with the logic but it's an act of protection, protecting a person's feelings and protecting the relationship, it's not about trying to deny a woman anything.
If no guy ever lied about it and well over 70% of us have watched it regularly while just over half of all women claim to hate it, then there would be a hell of a lot more failed relationships.
You also have to factor in the amount of women that would rather not know the truth, the amount of guys (of which I know plenty) who have excellent relationships, marriage with kids, a great job and very loving home life that still use porn and have never been caught by their porn hating partner. Should they feel bad having created a beautiful, loving home and family because they watch porn and have never let it have a negative effect on their relationship? Or should they now come clean, hurt their partner and risk everything going belly up?
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (1 April 2012): First to answer the OP's question, I think it's difficult for a man to give up porn in a relationship simply because it's something he's done for years before he's met his girlfriend. It's a habit, and like any other habit, it's just hard to break. It's got nothing to do with the girlfriend or her attractiveness. I think the sooner women learn that, the better off they'll be. Sure, there are always exceptions. There's always going to be some brainwashed men who think porn stars are hotter than everyday women, but I find it very easy to tell the difference between a man like that and one who just watches it for the sex. (One will criticize your body and possibly even stop having sex with you while the other one will treat you no differently than he would without the porn).
I also have something else I'd like to add. To all you men out there who think it's okay to just lie to your significant other about your porn use, consider this: Just as much as you have the right to watch porn, your girlfriend has the right to be with someone who doesn't. And by lying to her to deceive her into thinking you're someone who doesn't watch porn, you're taking away her right to be with someone who shares her viewpoint. She stays with you thinking she's with someone who doesn't watch porn, but all the while she's being made a fool of. How can you feel right about doing that? She doesn't have the right to tell you to stop watching porn, but you also don't have the right to lie to her. Go be with someone who shares your viewpoint, and let her find someone who shares her viewpoint. Don't waste each others time.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (31 March 2012):
If your partner is looking at illegal pornography than report him to the police.
The thing is... people who don't like pornography, never watch it and don't work in the industry, want to tell other people what to do. For some reasons lawmakers in several countries don't seem to listen to people who hate pornography and therefore haven't banned it completely or made it illegal.
SOME ex-porn stars who no longer work in the industry say bad things about it. SOME ex-porn stars who no longer work in the industry say positive things about it. SOME sex workers want someone to rescue them and can be helped to find different employment. SOME sex workers hate people who want to close down the industry which gives them a living. SOME sex workers are tired of being portrayed like mindless slaves who have no brains are too childlike, damaged or drug abused to know what they are doing. That's why many sex workers set up their own unions and have nothing to do with people campaigning against pornography or paid for sex.
That's why I think lawmakers have a problem. There is no agreement that everyone thinks the same. I don't think every single person who looks at porn is addicted to sexual images. Neither do the psychologist and doctors as it is not included in the manuals they use for assessment for addiction and mental problems. They do not equate pornography addiction to alcohol and tobacco addiction because of some very serious drawbacks that show up in scientific studies.
People can and do have problems with pornography, prostitutes and sex in general. But having a supply of images is not seen as a reason for treatment. Using pornography because you like it, is not seen as a mental problem, although some people may class it as a moral flaw.
Trafficking women is illegal. Forcing people to be sex slaves is illegal. Raping women is illegal. If you know that anything like this is going on, then please report it to the police. Working in pornography, doing nude shots, and the rest of the activities that sex workers do... as long as you are the right age and it's legal in your country and you follow the necessary laws... it's not illegal and therefore you are allowed to earn your money this way.
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reader, anonymous, writes (31 March 2012): The porn industry is highly manipulative, like the advertising industry, the tobacco industry and so on. They know they have an addictive product and they exploit both their workers and their customers with no regard for the harm they cause. People who are strong enough realize how harmful porn is to so many people and they either don't have interest in it or they resist it. Try having your bf watch some documentaries on porn and read what former porn industry stars have to say about it. It is hard for young people, men in particular to avoid being exposed to all of this.It is sickening that a whole generation has now been brainwashed by internet porn, which is becoming more violent and degrading in its imagery and content. They are brainwashed into thinking this is sex, it's not sex, other than people are mechanically having sex.
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reader, anonymous, writes (31 March 2012): The discussion has expanded from the original question, yes, but is valid in this context.
Not all pornography is legal in the UK - once again it is an area littered with complex legislation and difficult to interpret/enforce boundaries. It remains, however, that not all pornography is legal in the UK.
Strictly speaking, prostitution has always been legal in the UK, in the sense that it is not illegal to pay for sex, or to receive money for it. But many of the activities that it involves - including soliciting, kerb-crawling, pimping, and keeping a brothel - are all against the law. In practice, much depends on interpretation and enforcement.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (31 March 2012):
Question:
Why do men whose partners are given IVF treatment get given pornography to look at?
Why does UK newspapers Include a picture of a naked woman everyday?
Why do reputable doctors recommend some patients use pornography to improve their sex life?
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (31 March 2012):
The harm caused by an industry wasn't the question that was asked. But yes the sex industry in all it's forms is harmful for many people involved. Likewise the rock n' roll music business and the movie industry.If an industry is found to be harmful, then it is up to the lawmakers to make the thing illegal. In countries where porn is legal, they have set up government commissions and the picture is mixed.Likewise people who make trainers or work at sea or many other industries are also at risk. The issue of harm for performers needs a whole question of it's own. Pornography and prostitution in the UK is legal, even though for hundreds of years both government and researchers have looked at the issue.Like the question "why don't men give up porn"... I would ask, "why don't governments ban anyone who sells sex in any way"?
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reader, anonymous, writes (31 March 2012): Why is everyone studiously avoiding the most contentious, worrying issue here? Pornography (and its associated industries) is hugely damaging (physically and emotionally) to those who perform in it, male and female. Many performers have already been victims of child sex abuse, sex-trafficking, drug abuse ... how can we all just conveniently ignore these disturbing facts? The viewing of pornography de-sensitizes the viewer, what thrilled them for the first few times of viewing won't subsequently be enough, and they go on to view more and more extreme material - and for them to have their pleasure, another human-being has to suffer.
As for getting all upset and sensitive because women might fantasize about the romantic lead in a chick flick ... and it's so unfair because these men bear no resemblance to real men or real life .... Neither do the men (or women) in porn, neither do the (very often gross and abusive) acts they perform.
Would any of the "supporters of porn" be happy if their mother/father, husband/wife/partner/boyfriend/girlfriend, son/daughter worked in pornography? What about the men out there (primary viewers of hardcore pornography) would you be happy if your female relatives or life-partner was at the centre of a gang-bang, which would be viewed by people around the world? Wouldn't you be afraid this would damage them emotionally and physically?
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (31 March 2012):
What emotional aspect about chick flicks is so different from the emotional aspect of any dude movie where the guy lands Angelina Jolie? There is no difference between the two. If you want to talk about insecurity from Hollywood, then you have to be willing to accept that the vast majority of movies tell men the exact same lies about women that chick flicks tell women about men. The only reason you are grasping desperately for a female comparison for porn is because there is no female equivalent where women are actively encouraged to lie and hide about the men that they use like a drug to get off, that goes WAY beyond a fantasy. It is just a ridiculous thing to compare something that destroys millions of marriages and relationships with watching TV or movies.But what difference does it make to you? You give out tips to men on how to lie to their girlfriends, you equated human slavery to watching movies, and flippantly said you don't care if there is awful abuse in the sex industry because the suffering of men who are expected to be nice is unfair.
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (31 March 2012):
Let's ignore the romance novels vs porn debate. Just stick to your guy and not generalize all men. When you say porn collection do you mean stacks of DVD or stuff in his computer history? Also what they are doing in porn is fantasy. You can't compete with what they do in porn, and I doubt that you do everything those girls do, like gangbang, ass to mouth, whipping, chains and stuff. Porn is fantasy because there is no time constraint, no restrictions like we do in real life. It's all drama. You see bosses doing it with secretaries. Nurses doing patients. Teachers doing students. Housewives doing pizza boys. It's fun to watch these things because it makes us wonder what life would be if things can happen like that. What your boyfriend meant by fantasy was that wouldn't life be more exciting if we can just fuck whoever we want. That's why it is fantasy. Sometimes real life can be dull and porn can be an escape. I would never want to be someone's fantasy, if that person is demanding. That's just going to be too much darn hard work.
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reader, anonymous, writes (31 March 2012): "You are talking about a difference between completely isolating women from all forms of media because men hate that there's a remote possibility that there might be a shirtless man and she might ogle him."
Oh I see, completely ignore the emotional aspect and focus only on the shirtless man thing. I must take it from your refusal to address those issues that those similarities are irrefutable then. Anyone who says that porn is not as bad a betrayal as romance movies basically is stating that sex is more important than the deep emotional aspects of a relationship. Or maybe that emotionally cheating is more acceptable than sexually cheating real or imaginary. I personally think they're both just as bad but I don't feel betrayed nor threatened by porn or romance movies.
"This kind of comparison is INCREDIBLY insulting to the immense pain that many women feel when their men use porn. You are essentially comparing an intense betrayal to a pang of jealousy because she checks someone out."
And it's not insulting to us guys to assume that we're not capable of the same pain in relation to feeling intensely betrayed by a woman's fantasy? That somehow a woman's pain is more profound? It's okay for women then to have their emotions stimulated by another man for an hour and half but watching sex for a few minutes for a wank is abhorrent?
I don't think so, they're both movies, entertainment directed at people to illicit certain responses to sell a product.
Being jealous, feeling betrayed by porn can be viewed as being as "silly" and "weird" as feeling that way about romance movies. Think that's bad? Imagine what would happen if women knew the amount of times we have fantasized about having sex with real life women other than them while masturbating, how common that is and who those women are. Your sister may have been wearing a nice skirt today, your best friend may have just posted bikini photos on facebook and who knows your boyfriend may have gotten some wankspiration from those.
You see the only reasons a guy won't give up his collection is 1. They cost money and 2. No one likes to be controlled.
There are plenty of things in life, plenty of hot girls on our Facebook account, your facebook, account in our neighbourhood, college, in your magazines, in movies and most of our wank fantasies aren't going to be about you and you will never know.
If OP's boyfriend is smart he'll "give up" his porn collection by giving it to friend he can get it back from as a sign of his love, then just use private browsing and video streaming sites in future to ensure he doesn't get caught. That way both he and OP win. She won't feel threatened of betrayed and he can still use porn.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (31 March 2012):
Your point is basically that even though the vast majority of media features hot women as scenery, props, and decoration to the male leads, when the occasional shirtless man appears among the countless sexy babes in everything, it's exactly the same as when men go out of their way to actively seek out women being dominated and penetrated and humiliated and wanking to them. That is an entirely ridiculous claim. You are talking about a difference between completely isolating women from all forms of media because men hate that there's a remote possibility that there might be a shirtless man and she might ogle him, versus men actively seeking out completely naked women being pounded so they can pretend they are having sex with her and getting pleasure from her.
This kind of comparison is INCREDIBLY insulting to the immense pain that many women feel when their men use porn. You are essentially comparing an intense betrayal to a pang of jealousy because she checks someone out. Women are told all the time that they must put up with men eye banging other women, looking at porn, fantasizing about all her friends in bed, etc... But when women go to a movie where there MIGHT be a shirtless guy (but maybe not), it's worse? Don't be petty.
Not to mention almost all movies that don't cater specifically to women are basically reverse chick flicks. In the end, the man is awarded a hot, sex-crazed, subservient woman, no matter how she feels about him. So women get the crazy notion that someday a man will love them, men get the crazy message that no matter who they are or what they look like, they are owed a hot babe. Stop pretending this is some kind of unique attack on men because a small market caters to women.
You can't be serious that the damage done by enslaving women and children and raping them over and over is the same as giving women the idea that someday a man will love them (though I hate that chick flicks send the message that in the end nothing a woman does matters if she doesn't have a man). But the idea that slavery and rape is the same as men having their women think someday a man won't treat them live garbage is trivializing and just plain wrong. It is sickening that you can flippantly say that you know there's a lot of abuse, but you just don't care because it feels good.
http://www.antipornmen.org/2012/03/30/supply-and-demand-our-insatiable-appetite-for-porn-is-fuelling-the-exploitation-of-women/
I'm not even sure what point you're trying to get across with that link. Child sex abuse happens EVERYWHERE that children are around adults. In schools, by relatives, by coaches, etc... It's horrible, but Hollywood isn't special. Though I can tell you with certainty that 100% children in porn are abused. The scale of abuse in Hollywood does not even approach what happens in porn.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (30 March 2012):
"Why are men so reluctant to get rid of their porn collection"
Funny how this question has been re-written... perhaps the OP should clarify and add the word "hardcore" to her original sentence.
Also a bit confused about "No woman masturbates to chick-flicks".... um... I thought that some women did masturbate and have fantasies over famous men in movies, even when they are having sex with somebody else. But your probably right, considering a large percentage of women watch hardcore and softcore porn themselves and don't need to watch chick-flicks.
I don't know why guys continue to use porn in their relationships. Probably for the same reasons why I have pornography, erotic books and romance books. Because I like them, because I hate to be controlled, because I have no problem finishing a relationship with someone who wanted to change me dramatically. Same way I'd have no problem with leaving a relationship because I didn't like the personality or habits of the guy I was dating.
I hate TV sports with a passion. I can compromise and a guy watch it 3 or 4 times a year. But if he makes it a regular thing and starts checking the sports scores daily. I don't cry, I don't plead, I don't go and get advice. Me and this guy aren't suited, and the relationship ends.
I don't understand why men or women, stay in a relationship that hurts them so much, but can't leave and only stay and complain. Sports is enough for me to leave because of the high dangers of addiction. Coming from the UK, you will have heard about all them "football widows". I've seen them, sitting bored whilst their men are stuck to the TV screen. But I refuse to think that the football is prettier than me, or think that the guy doesn't care about my feelings. We are not suited and that's enough for me to leave.
Yes of course, football and porn are different. I've never known anyone name their children after porn stars, or spend their holiday watching porn instead of laying in the sun. However there are a few similarities, I've heard of women who are lonely and neglected, or have no money because the guy spent it all on porn or football.
Why don't they get rid of the porn. Because they like porn. Why don't they stop doing things that hurt women? Because they don't have to, because the woman won't ever leave? Also because they know they can always find a woman who doesn't mind or doesn't care. Not the answer you wanted really. But coming from the UK, I got a question to ask you... Why does our daily newspapers think that a naked woman needs to be page 3 news every single day, for men, women and children. Wonder if married men/men in relationships should only get the news on the TV?
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): Have people ever trafficked to make romance movies? Ever heard of the casting couch? Hollywood is more famous for how young impressionable girls and boys are sexually abused and raped by producers, directors and other movie executives. They pretty created the mould for this kind of thing. Open a history book or just google it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070474/Does-Hollywood-paedophilia-epidemic-Abuse-revealed-child-actors.html
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): "you seem to insist that women hurt men constantly with romance novels and chick flicks"
That's not my point, I insist that the logic anti-porn women use to chastise guys who use porn can be applied to those things too because they do contain things that may be perceived as reasons to be jealous and insecure, believe it or not many men are very jealous of and made feel very insecure by girls gushing over guys we could never hope to be like. Do you really think that no guy who sits and listens to his girlfriend or a girl he likes, even just a group of women and hear them discuss hard bodied movie star guys and gush over them and get a bit insecure or jealous? The fact he would be laughed at if he showed that kind of insecurity in those moments has no effect on his willingness as a man to open up about that or admit it?
More and more men are turning to plastic surgery, hair replacement and are consumed by retro-jealousy of past boyfriends who may have been better in bed, had bigger penises or been more sexually adventurous. You think that women being sold an idealized representation of the "perfect guy" or "mr. right" in romance movies and novels since they were teenagers has absolutely no effect on their mindsets?
Women who don't like porn very often quote that they can't compare physically to the women in it, correct? Well do any of us guys have the same bodies or are as handsome and charismatic as the male leads in romance movies? No, so using the same logic we could feel threatened by our girlfriend's ogling those guys, the fact most of us don't openly admit that doesn't mean the same logic can't be applied to it or that it doesn't exist. Be honest, what kind of reaction would a guy get for admitting he did? He'd be mocked, pitied or been seen as weak and less of a man.
Another excuse is if they have me to satisfy them sexually then why do they look at other women having sex?
Well if women have us guys to make them feel special, loved and romanced then why do they watch other guys in romance movies with the intention of stimulating those emotions? If sex and sexual thoughts must be exclusive to one woman for men, then romantic emotions must solely be confined to one guy. Or is deep emotional stimulation by other guys perfectly acceptable for women to do? If my girlfriend let guys in real life make her feel the way she does after watching a romance movie, I'd dump her in a heartbeat.
Another point made is that porn is real sex, well romance movies are real words, they're real concepts, they're real kisses, they're real touches and caresses, their emotional impact is real, the emotions of the viewers is real. Besides pleasure is what makes sex real and sitting under studio lights in front of 20 people trying to maintain your erection so you pop on the right scene or fake an orgasm after 8 hours of stop start filming having one or more penises jammed in you is not what I would call real sex, anymore than I would call a woman breastfeeding child, incest or indecent exposure. Sex is pleasure if you don't get pleasure then it's just two appendages rubbing against each other, it's fake.
I've always accepted the point that as an industry porn is rife with abuses, that it very often leads to harmful perceptions of women and sexual misconduct amongst men, but can you really tell me that romance movies and their representation of love conquering all, turning violent and mentally unstable men into kind, loving heroes, that emotional blackmail and manipulation is okay for women to do as long as other women find it humoous or the myriad of other fantastical rubbish that happens in them does no harm? It doesn't create unrealistic representations of men that should, can and do change into what women want us to be? That we must bow to demands and throw out our porn collections because women demand that we do?
If you ask me there are a hell of a lot of similarities and we guys have all had to deal with the effects of not being able to live up to the romantic ideal bought into bought by girls who think romantic movies represent reality, women too have suffered from the notion they their love can conquer all and that a guy who beats them, uses them or cheats is worthy of chance after chance because "people can change" and "the power of love" will win eventually.
So again, when all is said and done, you either accept another's fantasies and hobbies or you don't, but you should never let a person demand you change into the person they want you to be.
Why be threatened by fantasy? Why is one fantasy more acceptable than the other? Just because men aren't as widely represented as women as regards vocalization of their gender issues doesn't mean they're not as widespread nor as significant. Porn itself may have many differences with romance movies but they have a lot of comparatively negative effects too, choose to ignore the similarities and you merely come from a position of bias.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): person12345 - you make a very reasoned, logical and intelligent argument.
That any adult (male or female) can honestly think to compare a chick flick with hardcore pornography is frankly astounding, and indicates strongly a worrying lack of awareness and a crossing of emotional and sexual wires.
There is a huge gulf between romantic emotions and sexual feelings. Seeing someone in a romantic film being kissed passionately causes our hearts to "flutter", our pulses to "race". Seeing someone splayed open like a display in a butcher shop, being penetrated every which way, would cause sexual arousal (a physical response) in some and revulsion (an emotional response) in others. Very worrying that some people cannot tell the difference.
As for getting rid of dildos and sex toys ... if a man is incapable of satisfying his partner should she just curl up and die and accept not experiencing the enjoyment and release he does?
Porn is all about domination and control and bears no resemblance to love-making - or, at least, it shouldn't.
What I find truly worrying and upsetting is that our young people are learning about sex - the mechanics - from porn. One of the most deeply upsetting things I read recently in an agony aunt column was a letter from a 13 year old girl (CHILD!) asking if it was alright for her boyfriend to slap her face because she wouldn't perform oral sex on him. This is an example of what porn does.
It de-sensitizes, it degrades and it corrupts.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (30 March 2012):
Ogling? That's no different from say going to the beach. There is a huge difference between seeing a mostly clothed person in a non-sexual place and actively seeking out graphic hardcore porn so you can masturbate to it. There is NO difference between a romance movie and a man going to an action movie with Megan Fox in it. They are both different from hardcore porn.It's interesting that you choose to say women are hurt by porn because they are trying to dominate men when you yourself said just last week that men watch porn to enjoy dominating women.But really, both of these are total strawman arguments. The OP is not asking about chick flicks or vibrators, she is not saying her partner is bothered by these and she is choosing to continue anyways, she is asking why men choose to continue hurting their partner. This is where your arguments fall apart, you seem to insist that women hurt men constantly with romance novels and chick flicks, but I've yet to read a single question from a man about either or heard a woman bothered by porn defending her own use in the face of her partner being hurt. This question certainly has nothing to do with either.
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (30 March 2012):
 SVC I can probably compromise. Seeing as porn isn't a deal breaker for me, never was, and hopefully never will be. The point was just that I don't think the porn itself is the reason why men would sit on their hind legs in this.
It's a relative question though, really. It depends on several factors. First off, are there any real reasons for why the man should stop watching porn? Second, how good communication do they have in the relationship, and can the request be formulated as just that.. a request, rather than a demand? No one likes to follow orders in a relationship.
Next, it also depends on his relationship with porn. If we're talking a life change then that's one thing, if we're talking about him watching something else those times he gets bored and he might as well just watch another movie then it's not difficult to "give up".
I watch porn. I can "give it up" if I get a good enough reason and the man is worth it. But I wouldn't like constrains and limitations on what I do. If I choose to not watch porn it is because I WANT to not watch it, not because I have been told not to. I'd also check out compromises and have a real solid talk about why this is a problem first, and then get to the bottom of why it is a problem rather than just stop having anything to do with anything porn related. I write erotic fictions myself... I mean where does it end? I've even drawn semi-erotic pictures. I attend nude beaches. I'm bisexual and I watch women change in the locker room... There are just too many pitfalls if you don't understand the reason behind why someone has a problem with "porn" in general.
I found the best solution is just to accept that body and sex are both natural things, and nothing to be ashamed of or troubled by. Embrace it I say, and the worries and fidgeting will stop. Everyone would benefit from spending time at a nude beach and get over the body-secrecy issues they have.
Sex is natural and normal. Why should we not be fascinated and interested in it? Fixation is one thing, but natural interest is healthy.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): Chick flicks = porn do me a favour!I have yet, to see a chick flick where all the men are naked showing me privet parts of their body!! porn is extreme! Never would you see a chick flick encouraging woman that treating men like a rug, spit on them, sodomise them, torture them…. Telling you to pulling them by the hair and spill bodily liquid all over them, spanking or calling them names!I am not a fan of chick flicks! But… I doubt women get any sexual satisfaction, I can’t imagine a women taking her underwear of and start to rub herself on the thought of been with that man who would also be acting sexual and engaging on sexual play.don’t you think it is a bit sexist to think that emotional fulfilment for women is like sexual fulfilment for a man? Cerberus aren’t you undermining a woman’s ability to understand sexuality? by portraying that crappie comparison? As if we didn’t understand the need or the satisfaction of fantasizing sexually! again do me a favour! we understand what men get out of porn, but aren’t there other less offensive and dangerous ways to get your rocks on? It’s ok to think that you have nothing to do with the porn industry, interestingly enough when you are a consumer and masturbate over it! The only opposite there is to a men watching porn is a woman watching porn… that is it, end off. There are no other comparisons.I don’t think chick flick have spoil SOME women to the point of no return, were they become completely apathetic and lack the understanding on how to treat a man please him or not know how to see them solidly for the gratification they could bring them!Has a chick flick ever illegally trafficked men from other countries, to force them to do this?Or has a high rate of males who have been abused at a young age? And now they recurred to sell their looks in a dirty degrading way to get attention…has a chick flick ever created a dangerous situation where a men felt completely humiliated and degrade because a woman learn her ability to treat a men from them?Are chick flicks destroying relationships and some women sexually because of how highly addictive they are? are chick flicks commercialising men’s bodies as sex objects? I am not putting any more examples.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (30 March 2012):
 Maybe I’ve never had a man refuse to give up his porn because I’ve never felt the need to ask. Maybe I never felt the need to ask because I knew my dad kept Penthouse in his night table and found the gift of “the Joy of Sex” that my mom gave him for father’s day one year…. (I was older by then a late teen but I guess we thought he got a card and breakfast only when we were kids.)
Maybe Chigirl you can compromise… My man has asked me to give up pants… he hates me in pants. I compromised… I get to wear pants to work and jeans when we run errands… and leggings around our home but when we go OUT… it’s skirts and heels…. Because it makes him happy to see me dressed “like a woman”… but he knows that he has no say for work or errands wear…
In the same vein, why can’t a woman accept that occasionally a man wants to look at porn? Why must it be all or nothing?
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): How about this then?
"Can somebody help me? Why are women so reluctant to give up their vibrators/dildos even when they say their boyfriend's penis is enough and a good size? Everybody says something like everyone has fantasies what does that mean? They're using a device that's bigger and wider than my penis. How is that fantasy?"
It always boils down to the same thing, control, insecurity and domination. Some girls don't like porn, some don't like pictures of ex-girlfriend's being on facebook, some don't like their guy to notice other women on the street, some don't like us having female friends we're close to, and demand we get rid of those, all of these feelings and demands are then called "normal", "natural" and "understandable". But if a guy says he doesn't like vibrators, pictures of a girl's exes on facebook, being close friends with an ex, doesn't like his girlfriend ogling over male actors, or dancing closely to other guys, or dressing sexy and going nightclubs to get sleazed on, and demands that girls stop, we're called "unreasonable", "controlling" and "abusive".
So if a girl finds a guy's fantasy, something imaginary as a reason to feel jealous, insecure or threatened then she's called an oppressed and downtrodden woman that needs to stick up for herself, a guy in the same position is laughed at and derided for being idiotic.
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (30 March 2012):
" Why are men so reluctant to get rid of their porn collection even when they say their girlfriend is enough and is beautiful?" Are they? I have never been in a relationship with a man who was defending his "porn collection" with claws and teeth. I never was in a relationship with a man with a "porn collection" either. Don't you know guys these days watch porn online? If you have a computer then your collection is likely as big as his.
But I can imagine that of I asked them to not watch porn that they'd not be "so reluctant" and "defend" it. I mean it's just porn... it doesn't really mean a lot to guys. It's not the world.
What however IS a matter of principle is whether or not a girlfriend has a right to tell them what they can or can't do. And I imagine that THAT is where the issue lies. Not with the porn itself. But with the nagging woman who tries to boss them around.
If a man came to me and told me I no longer can wear skirts because he thinks it draws unwanted male attention and that HE should be enough... well.. how do you think I'd react? And do you think I'd be "reluctant" to obey his commands because I love skirts so much, or because I hate being told what to do?
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): "The comparison of porn to chick flicks is downright idiotic."
Really? So they aren't really kissing each other and holding hands in romance movies? They're fake hands and computer generated lips? They're not really saying the words I love you? Those movies never, ever stir up romantic emotions in the people that watch them?
Of course they're the same. Women ogling over other hotter, unrealistic men that most of us guys will never compare to, yet guys doing that with porn is wrong. It's just a sexist statement to they're not the same, basically the idea that women's fantasies are acceptable and men's aren't. Why not just castrate us at birth?
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (30 March 2012):
Well it's very habit forming. Most men have probably been using it since they were fairly young, for some it was their first sexual experience. I'd imagine it's hard for someone who's rarely masturbated without porn to change.
The people who say it's fantasy are in denial. Fantasy is when you think of something in your head. Porn is real people having real things done to them. It's not camera tricks, they really were penetrated and exposed to potentially harmful bodily fluids.
The comparison of porn to chick flicks is downright idiotic. Women don't go masturbate to chick flicks. Are chick flicks to women somehow different from action movies to men? No, of course they aren't. To compare women seeing a shirtless attractive man in a non-sexual setting to actively masturbating to hardcore pornography is ridiculous. Would you compare a photo of an apple to actually eating an apple? There is no equivalent to porn. Men and women are both equally physically aroused when shown porn, there is no "female porn" other than actual porn.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionRomance movies aren't as bad as pornography. Porn is real people with no clothes on having sex.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionActually cerburus I have lost interest in romance movies since my boyrfriend lol
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female
reader, whatarewegonnado_withthemboys +, writes (30 March 2012):
 hii...
even after my ex and i started having sex, he still watched porn. this really worried me at first; i got kind of freaked out and thought that maybe i wasn't good enough for him and he wasn't enjoying our intimacy. buuut when it all came down to it, he mainly kept watching it so that he could find new stuff for us to do together.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): Let's make a deal: when you girls agree to give up your treasure box of photos, keepsakes and love notes from old boyfriends - we will as well with our porn collection. Agreed?
At least we don't harbor any sort of lingering connection and feelings with our vice. Can you say the same?
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): Can somebody help me? Why are women so reluctant to stop watching romance movies even when they say their boyfriend is enough and handsome? Everybody says something like everyone has fantasies what does that mean? They're looking at the same thing we've been doing. How is that fantasy?
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (30 March 2012):
Why are women so insistent that men get rid of their collection of porn when they partner up?
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