| A
female
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes: So what do guys really want? last night I went out with my friends to a pub/club and they were projecting music videos. Of course as "club music" videos go, they all had "hot" girls in them with skimpy clothes. My guy friends were all commenting about the girls' bodies... and from what I gathered, men care A LOT about how women look! They even praised the look of women who were obviously really fake! And they went like "Yeah, I'd like to have a girlfriend who looked like that". And they were all cookie cutter types with massive breasts (mostly implants), small waist, massive butt, fake tan, no cellulite, etc. I felt so self conscious because I look nothing like that... from what they were saying it felt as if they only got girlfriends to have regular sex, and that they were not into a girl's "inside" as much as they say when they're being politically correct. Like they get average girls 'cause that's the best they can do but that they're only settling physically because of course they prefer the aforementioned "cookie cutter" look.I know we're supposed to try and ignore this and be good "inside" because it's the "inside" that matters, and that looks mean nothing without personality, but by hearing my friends last night I feel that's all BS. And my friends aren't bad people, they're typical guys in their 20s. They've been cheated on by many girls so maybe they're just bitter about women in general... but from what I can perceive, most if not all men really do care about looks. Otherwise the media and porn would not show what they show, right? And it might be a fantasy, but only because not many women who look like that are "available" to the average male. Like, it's a supply thing... it's only a fantasy because it's unattainable for the average guy.I don't know how to feel, I feel so self conscious and like I'll never be pretty and sexy enough. Like I said I know relationships are not all about sex and that the inside matters most and that so what if a guy settles physically for a girl as long as he loves her personality, but as a woman, I don't really want to be settled for or be with a guy who wishes he could sleep with a "hot" girl. I'm not hot, I'm average, I feel so ugly and worthless... I know women look too, but I guess it's different because I've never fantasized about sleeping with Brad Pitt or whatever "hot" guy celeb, I find that look boring, usually I fantasize about guys I know in real life and that turns me on a lot more, and none of them look like the "Hollywood male stereotype". And when I've been in love, I haven't even felt like looking elsewhere... so I guess men and women are different in that regard. But now I feel a bit worthless because apparently I don't have what guys want.I mean c'mon guys, even the ones who're mature and know that love matters most still get turned on by the typical porn star, right? So that means they're ideal and well... girls like me just aren't. And that makes me feel so inferior and second class. No matter how good I may be inside.
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male
reader, Cerberus_Raphael  +, writes (17 July 2011):
 I'm going to offer my opinion. Again, this is my own opinion that I've developed from my own experience, so it might go against what other people have said.
I hang around a lot of guys. In a large group, every guy talks about sex and hot girls and big breasts, it can get ugly. But when I'm just hanging out with one of them, they don't talk about that stuff at all. We're all good friends and when its just two of us, we actually get pretty deep and you find out all that ugly talk about...stuff...is just something men do but its not real. Well, it is on a very primitive level but that only goes so far in showing people around them what they really think.
I don't generally get turned on by women in scanty clothing. No mistake though, I'm straight. I don't get turned on my men in scanty clothing either. That might surprise some people or it might not but I just don't, I might think to myself that she's really attractive but really I'm just basing it on the general idea of an attractive woman. I'm pretty sure that's just how I'm wired and obviously, things may or may not be different for the next person. My point is, just because someone or some people say these things, it doesn't mean that its what they are thinking.
Our sex drive and our minds are two different things. For example, someone might start grinding up on a hot girl in a club but that doesn't mean he's really all that interested in anything. He's just doing what makes him seem more masculine.
The Media uses women because women are good to look at. And I don't mean that in a perverted way. Even women like looking at other women, gay or straight. Porn exists for a whole other reason, its not about attraction.
You really have no reason to feel insecure, general rule, ignore what those guys say when they talk about hot girls. You might acknowledge it if for some odd reason you're dragged into that conversation, but don't base your opinions on it. Its all bullshit. They know they're fake. They're just doing what their instincts tell them to do to maintain masculinity. What you wrote about never fantasizing about Hollywood types, that's exactly what some of my friends think.
I couldn't help but read what someone else wrote about keeping a man happy with a full stomach and an empty ballsack. I can't say I agree. Only because so many of my guy friends would disagree. Besides, we all know if that were true, relationships in general would be a lot worse. And I know you can't take it too literally but still, give the male population some credit.
Men want exactly what women want. We just want it differently.
I hope that helps.
A
male
reader, Odds  +, writes (16 July 2011):
 Don't get discouraged. There's good news and bad news. The bad news is human sexuality (male or female, straight or gay, old or young, or anything else) is not designed to be noble or pretty, it is designed to be effective, and that includes a lot of unpleasant truths. The good news is that knowledge of those truths will allow you to work for your own happiness within that framework.
Also bad news: this turned out longer than I intended. Grab something to drink.
What you first need to wrap your head around is guys like girls in two different ways.
The first is physical attraction. This is how you get a guy's interest to start. The good news here is that as long as there's nothing really wrong with you (that is, you're basically symmetrical, not fat, and have good posture), most guys will be attracted to you. You say you're about average? Well, then the majority of guys will find you attractive.
The cookie-cutter hot types you're referring to are just playing on every instinct we have for attraction. We may know everything is fake, but our instincts don't. All our instincts see is a .7 waist/hip ratio, big firm breasts, long hair, and a demeanor indicating openness to casual sex. We can help how we react to our instincts, but we can't help the instincts themselves.
Pay special attention to the "demeanor." Straight guys rarely notice it (a gay friend had to point it out to me a few years back), but women's makeup is designed to mimic the effects of sexual arousal - flushed cheeks and lips, clear skin indicating high levels of female hormones, for example. Combine with open body language and our instincts tell us this woman is open to casual sex.
With that in mind, there are the two ways guys find women attractive - as flings or as girlfriends. For flings, the only two things that matter are looks and availability. Evolutionarily, we aren't much different than cavemen, and for a caveman, every fling was a chance to pass on our genes with no consequences (five minutes out of your day for a chance to reproduce is exactly what Darwin ordered). Again, we may recognize the difference, but our instincts do not care if she's obviously fake, or even if she's just a chick on TV, the signals are getting through. And again, we can control our reaction to our instincts if we are aware of them, but the instincts are telling us we must pay attention to the woman immediately and seize the chance to reproduce while it's there - it's part of why hot, available women command such attention. If you wanted as much attention as the hottest women get, you could just make yourself available to any guy you like, I'd be willing to bet most would take you up on it (I don't recommend it, though).
Thing is, the ideal mating strategy for a male caveman was to have as many flings as possible... plus a main girl or two. If a guy can do that, he would, because hey, why not? Lower-tier strategies would be either many flings, or just focus on a main girl and mate-guard like crazy. The vast majority of guys end up using the latter strategy. Just because it's lower-tier in the purely pragmatic sense does not mean you're any less capable of being happy with it, though.
From that, you get the girlfriend-types. These are the ones who can win the loyalty of a guy, and this is your best bet to focus on. Looks still matter - you have to get the man's attention before you can get his loyalty - but as I said before, most guys will find you attractive. It's a minimum standard to meet, not a relative comparison, once you're talking about relationships rather than flings.
Here, personality matters. Winning a man's loyalty is a whole new step up from getting him to want to have sex with you - just like a guy introducing himself to a new girl is an entirely different process than talking to one he already knows. This is where you can demonstrate all the feminine qualities guys want in long-term girlfriends - which, fortunately for you, are pretty rare these days, so it gives you a competitive advantage.
Show respect for yourself and others. Be pleasant to be around. Demonstrate loyalty - make it hard to win your loyalty, but just as hard to lose it. Care about the guy you're with. Don't give a guy everything at once, make him earn it, but make it worth earning. Dress sexy but modest (boobs, butt or legs - emphasize only one at a time), and work on your appearance, but keep in mind it's not necessary to be the best, only to be your best. And select a guy who is on the level of choosing one woman, not one who can get as many as he wants. Once you've found a great guy, and spent enough time with him to know he's not faking it, sex him up good and be great to be around even when your clothes are on, and you'll maximize the chances that he's yours.
Male sexuality in its raw, animal form is, again, purely pragmatic (female sexuality is just as awful, but that's another topic). But you can win. You need to make yourself into girlfriend material (if you're not already), select a guy who is capable of acting on his "have a main girl" instinct while ignoring his "have many flings" instinct, then get with him and bring out the best in each other. You can beat the system, just don't get discouraged. Best of luck.
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A
female
reader, SallyR87  +, writes (16 July 2011):
 A male friend once told me two horrible truths about males:
1) If for a day girls could read the minds of every guy on the planet, even the "nice guys" would turn girls lesbian.
and
2) All a women needs to do to keep a man happy in a relationship is keep him with a full stomach and an empty ballsack.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2011): Look some men (and women) bascially act up in clubs/pubs - reinforcing their masculinity by ogling women. Similar to how wound up they get at a sports match. Basically it's peer pressure.
A lot of men don't actually like the fake look and the truth of the matter is a lot of them don't respect women who act/dress like that. As bad as is sounds here's how one guy put it:
Fake/easy - smash and dash.
Real/modest - bring home to meet the family.
Not fair by any means but really would you prefer to be considered the latter? It doesn't mean they're not attracted to you either or they wouldn't have gone out with you.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2011): I get a little weary of the caveman/child bearing hips type of excuse for some men's crass behaviour. We have to accept it apparently. Because some poor lambs are ruled by their hormones and can't help but live by the most basic of instincts. I think what you witnessed was an exhibition of male bonding. When a group of males converge, a p*ssing contest ensues. It is designed to display to other males that one is a 'manly' heterosexual and not homosexual. That is very important to the group and another one of the 'Caveman' impulses. They become sexually charged and vocal with the Alpha males leading the pack. None of them could admit they have a crush on the girl next door. None of them could admit they spent the night before tickling your arm and calling you Snoodles. Because they just CAN'T do that in a group situation. So in a sense they are trapped in a time warp, posing and acting out this rather prehistoric ritual. There is nothing wrong with you as a person. It might feel is if nature has played us a dud hand, providing us with a growing bunch of outmoded troglodytes. But nature has also designed things so that one day, one of them will look at you and be totally smitten! He will work his buns off to provide for you and any offspring. He will protect you and his children. And always be faithful to you because he has been elevated by you from lust to love. So take heart and don't think there is anything wrong with you because there isn't. I'm sure you are a beautiful person. You just haven't met your Mr Troglodyte yet.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2011): Sorry but this is true. Go onto any forum or website, any topic related to women will focus on their looks.
Guys are literally OBSESSED with women's physical appearance and how big their ass and boobs are. This is just a sad fact i'm afraid.
When guys are alone with just other guys, around 80% of the conversation will be about how hot certain girls are.
We're so shallow =(
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2011): Honey, I once saw Kim Kardashian in person and she's all smoke and mirrors. Tons of makeup, hair extensions, kinda flabby. I also saw a newscaster who was as wrinkled as a prune and as short as an oompa lumpa. I think she was a spanish news lady where most of them look sooo fake. Don't judge by what you see. I know plenty of girls who go on a liquid diet days before wearing a tight outfit so their tummies are flat. I live in nyc so I've seen it all.
Besides, a real man prefers real boobs and a brain to take home to mom.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 July 2011): I'm the OP (sorry I have no account)
I see... the problem is I'm already thin so losing weight is not really an option, I can tone up but it won't make much of a difference I guess... hmm it sucks that we have to adapt, but I guess sex sells and insecurity sells too... I wish it was different, but... *sigh*
I guess I'll just have to settle for a guy who doesn't think I'm the hottest thing on earth... hey, if the can settle, so can I xoxo
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A
female
reader, angelDlite  +, writes (16 July 2011):
 guys can be terrible when they get together, it can turn into a testosterone fest! of course they are going to ogles scantily clothed gorgeous looking women, its nature but in reality they would want to date someone who has a personality that makes them feel good, not particularly the porn star looking half undressed girls who will draw a crowd of slobbering onlookers where ever they go.
if you feel unattractive you can improve yourself, get exercise to tone up, look after your body by eating the right food and drinking plenty of water, choose hair and clothes that make you look good. the media in recent years has got a lot to answer for i think, us women are more body-paranoid than ever now that we have all these air-brushed, surgically enhanced images to compete with and things are not gonna change, so all we can do is adapt to it and make the best of yourself
x
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A
female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (16 July 2011):
 You must not take what they say literally. Love is a universal need. A man wants a woman who needs them, who is comfortable with herself. Men also say things they don't mean. The reason you have this question is because young men usually don't know what they want. They figure out what they want through trial and error. You as a woman can guide them, instruct them on how to connect through love. Sometimes women are just as clueless. We wait for men to tell us when they are ready for a relationship, therefore giving away power. It's up to us to steer things in the right direction.
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A
male
reader, mce206 +, writes (16 July 2011):
Us guys are guilty of having our brains programmed to care more about visual sex appeal than women do.
There's nothing immoral about preferring or aspiring to be with a very attractive woman, so long as that's not the ONLY thing they care about.
It doesn't mean being with any woman who's 'average' looking is just them settling, and they can still be attracted to those women.
A man can also be with a woman who's his ideal visually, and still not stay with her because she treats him too poorly for him to handle.
You're not inferior for not being a certain ideal the same way a man isn't inferior for not having your personality ideal.
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