A
male
age
41-50,
*iceguy1234
writes:Hi everyone, I am a 30 year old guy from London and I have come on here from some honest opinions on my relationship. Now this is quite a long thread but I promise it is very interesting and will be the cause for conversation with your friends and family, especially if you live with your partner. I am especially interested in opinions and general feedback from women. I'll get started now, I moved to Bristol with my now ex partner of 9 years 4 years ago. I left my friends and family behind to buy a more affordable house with her to bring up our first child together, she has family in Bristol BTW. Shortly after we moved in to our new home in Bristol that I had to have a major operation on my leg, please note this, I was signed of work for 5 months, she was 6/7 months pregnant at that time. I feel that in a relationship both sides are equal and everything should be discussed first, I raised the topic who will work and who will stay at home with the baby. Now I always knew it would be me working and that was always my preference, she left her job when we moved and I had a good job I transferred and was receiving sick pay from to pay all of our new bills and mortgage.When I asked her how she felt about going back to work and me being an at home Dad she responded by saying “it's disgusting for a woman to pay a man's bill”, I was shocked because I was expecting something like 'I would prefer to stay at home with our baby' or 'I think a baby should be with the mother as long as possible' or something else along those lines which I totally agree with. The whole conversation was supposed to be a formality that simply allowed us both an equal chance to say how we feel. I already had a job so was fully expecting her to say I want a break for a few years, fine with me. Her response of “it's disgusting for a woman to pay a man's bills”, was a kick in teeth for me , at the time I put it down to hormones, she was 6/7months pregnant. Her comment hurt me but I ignored it until the after our baby boy was born. After our baby boy was born I sat her down and told her that I could not get what she said out of my head and that I needed her to take it back. She got angry and said “no, it's disgusting for a woman to pay a man's bills, that's my opinion and I'm not taking it back”, I then asked what would happen if I was unable to work?. I just had a risky operation that kept me off work for 5 months, what if that went wrong and I was in a wheelchair, would you not take over my role as breadwinner and look after me and the baby? I really wanted to her say something like I would have said to that question, for example 'of course I would babes, I would do whatever I had to, I love you'. Unfortunately for me and our son she responded with “I'm not paying your credit card bills, I'm not paying your loans, I'm not paying your mobile phone bill and I'm not paying for that new car you just brought yourself”. I felt sick hearing this, at that point in time I was clearing her credit card and overdraft debts from our single lives in London, I was also paying her current mobile phone bill. I pointed that out to her but she still refused to change her view saying “it's my opinion, I think it's disgusting for a woman to pay a man's bills”. I lost a large amount of trust and respect for her that day, so much so that I refused to pay off any more of her debts until she took her hurtful comments back. I still loved her very much but love is IMHO the last thing to go in a relationship, trust and or respect go first. Now it has been four years since she made that comment, she has not worked a single second since we moved to Bristol and I have taken care of 100% of all bills including those debts which I previously said I would not pay. She still refuses to take back her comments and still says she would not pay my debts if the worst happened. Ladies, please correct me if I am wrong, I read what she said as her saying, be careful crossing the road, don't have any more big accidents playing football and try not to lose your job in a failing economy, I'm not filling your shoes as breadwinner if you can't work. That is how I see what she said, that is not a healthy relationship to me, a proper relationship is two people that have each others back regardless what life throws their way. I actually moved into commission based sales 5 months after having our son so I could earn double the money. Commission based sales means high earnings but no sick pay, you don't work you don't earn. I took this job because of that earning potential, I saved every penny and I was right to do this because I did have an accident playing football. I did not worry about this though, I saved hard and I knew I could rely on myself and my savings whilst recovering from my op. Laying on that hospital bed, it really hit home how unhappy I was with her and our relationship. Knowing I could not rely or trust her if something really awful happened to me felt awful, and lonely. Being lonely in a relationship is worst than being lonely alone.I left her 9 months ago, I lost love and respect for her every time I got my pay check and paid her half of the mortgage, council tax, food and absolutely everything else. She refused to work on weekdays leaving only the weekends which were my two days off from giving her the life she had, that did not matter to her. I even gave up waiting for her to take back her comments and started paying off her debts as she was adding to her credit cards behind my back. I could not help thinking, I'm a fool, she would not do any of this for me and her refusal to take back her comments made it much worse. Before I broke it off I want to admit that I was a pretty horrible person to her, I had little or no respect left for so I would ignore her and only speak to her if I had something negative to say. I know I should have just left her earlier instead of being nasty or mentally abusive but I did not want to leave my son, he means the world to me. I see now that we were doomed the moment she made that comment, over 4 years she continually refused to take it back despite knowing how it made me feel. I simply have to be with someone I can trust and rely in any situation life has to offer for me to be kind and loving towards them. What is really warped is that she would constantly go on about getting married, I respect myself too much to lie to my whole family and the church. The woman I marry will have to earn my trust, respect and love before I would even consider something like marriage.I would like some honest opinions now please, she blames me for the break up because I was horrible to her which I admit and have apologised to her and her parents about. She still refuses to apologise or care that her comments hurt me and planted a seed of doubt that grew beyond control. I know pointing the finger will not solve anything but until she realises her mistakes I can't have a decent friendship with her for the sake of my son. She honestly thinks she was the perfect girlfriend and did nothing wrong at all, what do you think? Before you answer, get this, despite the fact that we have be separated 9 months ago and she feels it's disgusting for a woman to pay a man’s bills, she still sends her credit card statement to my address for me to pay, the bill is in her name, it's her debt, we separated 9 months ago. Now I did agree to do this for her, but it's only up until our house sells, I'm taking back what I've paid from her cut of the house sale. Still, “it's disgusting for a woman to pay a man's bill's” but it's OK for a woman to send a man they are no loner with their credit card bill? I am sure any decent self respecting person will see my point here.Now, some of my friends say it's my fault, I spoiled her and let her have it too easy. I don't buy that crap, I was simply doing what millions of Dads do every day, I never asked for a medal, I wanted to be the great partner, provider, Dad and one day husband my useless Dad was not. She spoiled that with her comment and attitude, that will not stop me from doing the same for the next lady I fall in love with though. I just need her to see the error she made so we can move on for our child's sake, please take the time to share your view. This is kinda like therapy for me to, unbiased views are the only thing that will help us and her see that we both made mistakes, I apologised for mine. She still to this day blames it all on me, I need your time to help her see that her comments were like the iceberg to the Titanic, I will show her this thread one day.Thanks for taking time, niceguy1234.
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Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, k_c100 +, writes (3 December 2010):
 As I said before - there is nothing wrong with her standing by her opinion and she is right to do so. You need to stop going straight in with the whole principle that her opinion is wrong - everyone is entitled to their own opinions and you can disagree with it all you want, she still should not change her mind because of that. The angle you should use when talking to her is that her opinion hurt you and made you question the ground on which your relationship is based upon.
However, putting that aside - I think her and her mother are a rare breed that are not actually old fashioned, they are simply users and expect men to give them everything while they sit around doing nothing. I think she is obviously following in her mother's footsteps and is out to take as much as she can from any poor unsuspecting man she can get hold of.
I think from now on all you can do with this woman is try and keep things amicable for the sake of your child, dont even try to be friends with her as she clearly is incapable of thinking about anyone but herself. So all you need is to be polite and respectful of her, but dont hold out any hopes for friendship because people like her cannot be friends with the opposite sex - she clearly views men as a resource she can exploit, and there are no other uses for men other than for financial gain.
Your next step should be to consult a lawyer. You absolutely should NOT pay for anything related to your ex. You are not married and have no obligation to pay any money to her and towards her lifestyle - with the exception of paying your contribution to the child. I do worry that when you stop covering all her costs (which you need to do ASAP otherwise she will just drain you of all your money) then she will try and take your child away from you. So visit a lawyer for 2 reasons:
1. To find out where you stand legally with regards to payments for the house. My thoughts are that if the mortgage is in your name then you are responsible for all payments, irrespective of your ex, however the full sale proceeds from the house will be yours (if it is just your name on the deeds too) and she has no entitlement to any of it. However if the mortgage is in both of your names, and so are the deeds - then the sale of the house is 50/50 and so are the mortgage payments. But please check with a lawyer as I am not totally 100% sure on all this!
2. To draw up an access/visitation rights document with regards to your child. You need to have this in place in the event that she gets angry about you not paying for her debts etc anymore, because without this legally she can do what she likes with your child. But if you have a legal document then she has to abide by this or can be taken to court. I know it is all a bit formal and harsh but it is necessary for you and your child.
After you have spoken to the lawyer then you should have a better idea of how to proceed money-wise. And then you need to stop all financial contributions to her and sort out the money you are legally entitled to back from her. If you have a letter from the lawyer explaining it all to her then she will know you mean business now and she should stop trying to take advantage. If she still refuses to pay up what she owes you - then start court proceedings. Dont be soft on her just because she is the mother of your child, otherwise she will continue to use you and completely take the piss with you for the rest of your life.
I also suggest that if she knows any of your bank details or can get access to them then change them - as much as this is going to be a pain for you to sort out, it will be neccessary to prevent you from losing any more money to this woman.
Once all this is sorted out, and you know where you stand legally with regards to what she owes you, and what you need to split with her evenly - why not give her one lump sum of cash and then tell her that is the end of it. Through this site I have heard of that happening a few times with co-habitating, non-married couples, especially those who have children together. Following the break up and sale of the house, sometimes the male will give his ex partner a lump sum of money to start her off in her new life so to speak and to make sure she and the child are ok in the short term. I think this might be a good idea in your case because she does not work, you have a child together and simply because she is so demanding for your money - this will be like the last time and she will hopefully understand that you are being incredibly kind by giving her this lump sum, and she now has to survive on her own and manage her own finances.
You sound like a lovely guy and I am sorry you are going through this, she sounds like a complete nightmare! Make sure you visit a lawyer next, that is the most important thing you can do right now. Good luck with everything!
A
male
reader, niceguy1234 +, writes (3 December 2010):
niceguy1234 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionTried my best to take all the positive advice I got and spoke to her last week. She still stands by her opinion that it's disgusting for a woman to pay a man's bills, her 64 year old Mother backs her up. At the same time they both feel that I should give her the car for free, pay her credit card debt off and not ask for my money back from her half from the house sale, they also think it's ok for me to continue to pay her half of the mortgage whilst she lives in another house in another city with my son. They don't see why they should refund me her half of the mortgage payments from the day SHE decided to move out. She refused to sign the house over to me when She decided to move out but at the same time they both think she is not responsible for half the mortgage just because SHE decided to not live in the house any longer. Is it just me or do we have some miss-placed morals here? Is it just me or do we have an extremely ignorant pair of mothers living in the wrong times?
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A
female
reader, k_c100 +, writes (23 November 2010):
Hmmm this is a difficult one, and I would say that you have BOTH been right, you have BOTH been wrong on certain things. I think trying to make her see that she is to blame for the break-up is just as bad as her trying to claim she has been 'perfect' - you are both as bad as each other really!
As for the comment that started it all off - she worded it badly but I do kind of agree with her comment, to an extent. As a 23 year old working female, I could never be with a man who did not work and where I had to pay his bills. I am quite traditional and I do believe that generally men should be the 'provider', therefore he should as a minimum be responsible for his own bills.
Therefore if we look at that comment as a one-off statement without context then yes I agree with her - I would have no respect for a man who did not pay his own bills and expected his partner to do this for him, which you could say I would find 'disgusting'.
However when we put it into your context, where you were injured, or in a future context where your partner may go from being the 'provider' to being unable for whatever reason to do this anymore - then you were correct in wanting to at least know she would take over the role and care for you and your child. You were partners, which in the true meaning of the word means you are together, and work together in all that you do. Therefore all relationships should be based on this understanding that if something bad happened to one of you, then the other would do all they can to take care of that person and provide for them if necessary. So for her not to accept this logic and continue to claim that she would not ever, under any circumstances pay for your bills and would rather let you starve and be homeless than do anything to help you - this shows that she did not truly love you, care for you or appreciate all that you did for her.
I think your friends are absolutely spot on - you spoiled her and she completely took you for granted, you allowed her to turn into this monster I'm afraid. You basically reinforced the idea in her head that men provide, women raise the family. That women can throw whatever they want at a man and he will pick up the pieces, and she can carry on spending regardless because you will be there to sort her mess out. By picking up her debt from when she was single, you made the biggest mistake of all. If you had made sure she was responsible for her own debt that she created, and then told her you would happily pay for the mortgage/rent, bills etc for your new life together - then there might of been a different outcome for the relationship.
From the start you basically said to her "dont worry about ANYTHING financially, I will sort out your mess and deal with everything in the future". You allowed her to live this life where she was not responsible for herself anymore, and where she knew she could basically do whatever she likes. Therefore of course she is eventually going to find the idea of having to pay for someone else repulsive - she was so used to this amazing life where everything is paid for and she doesnt even have to lift a finger that she was always going to form this opinion in the end.
And this also explains why she still sends you her bills - she knows she can take full advantage of you and she is also not at all self-sufficient so she is going to use you for as long as she can.
I personally would be disgusted with myself if I was your ex, I could never allow myself to be financially dependent on anyone and I would hate the idea of never working or having my own money. But that is just my opinion - it does not mean your ex was wrong for being the way she was. I could not personally live like that, but many other women are happy to live like that as your ex has shown.
So to conclude this section, your ex has a bad attitude to money, life and relationships and unfortunately you found out the hard way. You simply had different values towards money and relationships - neither of you were wrong in your values, it is just that they were rather different. She just wants a man to provide for her, be an unlimited bank account and she never wants to have to think about money for herself again. Whereas you want more of an equal partnership, where you are happy to provide but want the emotional security in the knowledge that your partner could step up and provide and care for you if that situation ever arose. Your ex simply was not that person - she was not willing to ever provide for a man, even in a hypothetical situation which just shows that she values money and being provided for more than she values her partner. This is not a nice way to live life, and she will hurt many more men with this attitude - but it is not neccessarily wrong.
I think there was a small opportunity for your relationship to be saved, when after your son was born when you went and told her how you felt about the comment. But the problem was you said "I want you to take that comment back" which is basically saying to her "you are not allowed to have that opinion and I want you to change as a person". Of course she was going to be angry - telling anyone you are not allowed a certain opinion is going to make them incredibly angry and defenisve.
If you had actually gone in and said "look, the comment you made regarding paying a man's bills really hurt me and has worried me about our future. I completely understand that you would never want to pay for a man and the lifestyle he was accustomed to and I would never expect that of you. But what does concern me is that we have a child together now, and I am the sole breadwinner. While I love being the provider for my family, and never plan to change this, if I had an accident or something happened in the future it would really comfort me to know that as my partner, you would have my back and we could work together through the difficult times we experience"
That would have showed that you are not trying to change her opinions just because you dont agree with her, and that you are purely concerned for the future happiness of your family and would want to work for a joint outcome that would suit you both.
But I guess it is a bit late for that now - however the reason I wanted to point that out was because you have to accept the wrongdoing on your part here - this was her opinion and she is entitled to it, and many women would (sort of) agree with her. Therefore if you had handled this better, communicated better with her then maybe things would have been different.
As for how you can move forward - well this is going to be tough. All I can suggest is sitting down with her in private, and saying something along the lines of the words I said above, that you should have said to her the first time around. Maybe something like this:
"For the sake of our son I really would like us to be friends, and this is me holding out the olive branch to you so we can move forwards. However I need you to try and understand from my point of view that you did play a part in the break-up of our relationship, just as I played a part in it too. When you said that comment to me, it planted the seeds of doubt in my mind about you. I understand it was your opinion, and of course you are entitled to it and I would never try and change that. I completely understand that you would never want to pay for a man and the lifestyle he was accustomed to and I would never expect that of you. However my main reasoning for being so hurt by this comment was that we have a child together, and I was sole breadwinner. While I loved being the provider for my family, and never planned to change this, if I had an accident or something happened in the future it would have really comforted me to know that as my partner, you would have had my back. It is really important to me in a relationship to know that regardless of whatever life throws at you, you could work together and always be there for each other. Therefore when you said that comment, it showed me that you did not feel the same way, and I needed to hear from you that you loved me enough to committ to working together through all our problems, no matter what happened. I know this may seem silly to you that I am still hung up over a little comment, but this in my eyes was the sole reason that the relationship started to decline. This was the main reason I acted so badly towards the end of our relationship, and I know that is no excuse but can you appreciate this comment shook the foundations of what I thought our relationship was based upon?"
If I were you, when you go to have this conversation with her make some notes and take them with you, it is important to be clear on what you want to say and make sure you get your points across in a calm and sensible manner, rather than saying a comment you may end up regretting and causing a row.
And if she still wont accept that her comment changed the way you viewed the relationship, which contributed towards the demise of the relationship - then she possibly is the most stubborn and narrow-minded woman on earth. If she cannot be mature enough to accept that she of course played a part in the break-up (when ALL couples break up, both parties are at fault in some way) then she will never ever be able to go on to have a succesful relationship in the future - no-one is perfect and if she thinks she is, then she is going to be miserable and lonely for all her life.
There is always a possiblity even if you show her this (which I wouldnt advise - she will be pissed off you are discussing your problems on a public forum on the internet with strangers!) or talk to her, that she still will maintain she has done nothing wrong. So for the sake of your child you will just have to accept this and be civil with her. You dont have to be friends, just civil and polite to each other.
I hope this helps and good luck!
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