A
male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:Can I be annoyed at this girl I've just started to date for lying to me about something big like this. She says she did it to protect herself, but I feel insulted she judged me to be like those guys...We got to talking and I asked her how many people she slept with and she said 1, which was a low number and I was surprised. She's very, very flirtatious and incredibly beautiful and sexy. I found it hard to believe a girl who looks like her and is that naturally flirtatious had only slept with one guy and so I was a bit curious about it, but she didn't want to talk about the subject of sex which was fine by me.Well three dates in and she said she lied and actually hadn't slept with anybody before and was a virgin. I was shocked, because I thought she had slept with more people and was just ashamed to admit it. Never did I think she hadn't slept with anybody before! She said she didn't tell me, because in the past when she's told guys too early in they will say anything or do anything just so they can be her first and get her. She said she knows a lot of guys like virgins and that she's always been very careful not to let a guy know she is until she is sure of their intentions and whether they really like her for her.That's understandable, I said that I felt insulted she thought i was like those guys that she would lie to me about it, that the whole conversation was all made up and fake. She said she wouldn't had lied had I not brought the question up. She said she was protecting herself and that she didn't know me before, so in her defines she didn't know if I was like those guys or not and didn't want to risk it. I haven't said anything since, I just feel really annoyed that she lied. It was a big lie to tell me and so early in to us knowing each other, it makes me think what else will she lie about if she was to about this.. What is your opinion on this, do I have the right to be annoyed and cautious about getting involved with her now?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (6 April 2014): If the world isn't black and white, yada, yada, yada, then why is her lie so excusable and his mistrust over that lie so inexcusable?
The OP is not just being told that her lie is understandable. The attitude here is that the girl is ENTITLED to lie. People are criticizing the guy just for having the nerve to be bothered by that.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 April 2014): "Lying on the other hand IS more clearly wrong."
Male anon life is not that black and white. Lying isn't always wrong. Do you tell women they're fat when they ask? Are you going to tell a 3 year old santa doesn't exist if they ask? Are you going to tell a girl you're breaking up with a truth that will crush her needlessly? Do you really just go through life being 100% honest because it's "right" and are not willing to lie to spare someone's feelings or protect others?
Well best of luck if you do.
Lies of protection are okay to tell. Whether you're protecting someone else or protecting yourself, as long as that lie is not harmful to anyone. That lie was in no way harmful to the OP, just like letting a 3 year old keep some magic at xmas is harmless by not destroying the santa fantasy.
He said her virginity isn't important to him so how is lying about it important then? Her virginity is important to her, it's been a problem and she feels the need to be cautious. You know well what virginity means to a lot of men, both you and the OP understand why she wants to protect herself. What neither of you seem to understand is she can't win no matter what she says, which is why you don't ask. If she says she's a virgin it may become the guy's main motivation, if she refuses to answer that question then that can look even worse, like she's hiding something.
Male anon, it's not a question he should ask in the first place, if he can't handle the answer. The answer hurt the OP's ego and now he feels she should have assumed he's amazing and trustworthy straight away enough, and be comfortable enough, to be truthful about what it is very thorny subject for her.
Seems like she was worried the OP may not be cool about the while and from reading his question it's looking like she may have been right, because it's not an actual lie that matters if he was cool about it. She was just protecting herself.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (4 April 2014): The OP has focused on the lying. He is not showing signs of being virginity obsessed. That is very inconvenient for the people trying to turn this topic away from what its really about.
Asking a question is not morally wrong. At worst it is inappropriate in some people's opinion. Lying on the other hand IS more clearly wrong.
This topic includes female virginity and yet the guy is right and she is wrong. I know this is hard for some people to accept. But that is what has happened here.
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A
female
reader, celtic_tiger +, writes (4 April 2014):
 OP - why do you feel you need to know how many partners she has had?
What was your motivation for asking her out in the first place? Was it because you "assumed" she was a bit of an easy lay?
Why, does it matter if she has had 10, 1 or 0 sexual partners? Does that make her a different person?
Young adults and children are so pressurised now to be sexual - everywhere they look it is about having sex.
In reality a LARGE proportion are still virgins at your age. Seriously OP, I do not know why you are so shocked she is a virgin.
Are you annoyed because she isn't the easy target you thought she would be?
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (4 April 2014): This is the male anon again.
I was not trying to say that women should be forced to reveal sexual things or men should be forced to reveal their income. But refusing to answer a question and answering with lies are two different things. Refusing to answer is okay. Lying is not.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (1 April 2014): I disagree aswell male anon. Comfort is one of the best gauges of how things are going in dating, if you start making them uncomfortable you're unlikely to get very far.
As a wealthy man I can tell you that would be my alarm bell question. I'm a teacher, she can derive whatever income she thinks I have from that info alone, she doesn't need know I have a fat bank account on top of that. That info is irrelevant to dating me, and the fact that it would be relevant to a woman means it's too important to her and most likely going to be her highest priority while dating me if she finds out.
I'd rather she was attracted to me and what I have to give in terms of personality rather than the fact I can pretty much afford to buy anything I want.
For a woman virginity is a similar concept, especially at the OP's age. All of a sudden the priority changes from who this girl is to getting her prize, or it becomes something that puts guys off because they assume she's frigid or too hard work.
It's not a matter of comfort anyway, it's a matter of intelligence. I can open myself up to a gold digger, or use my money to bag women easily, but then I can never trust their intentions. Or I can keep it hidden, let them slowly see that I have things no regular teacher can afford and gauge their intentions in enough time to know they're in it for me.
Now the OP can ask whatever question he likes, it just doesn't mean it's a good idea.
You don't ask a woman how many partners she's had early on or look at her like she has two heads if she said she hasn't had any, you don't ask her weight or bra size either, because regardless of what you may think it says about her, it says far more about the guy asking that he thinks that important information to ask. Because at the end of the day dating is just one big long compatibility test.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (1 April 2014):
 We'll have to agree to disagree, male anon, because actually I happen to think that yes, if a girl asks a man how much does he make during their first date or before , and gets a bullshit answer.... she deserves it richly and royally,lol. Truth matters - but you seem to imply that everybody is authomatically ENTITLED to truth, and disclosure about sensitive, private matters , as long as he / she bothers to ask. I disagree on this - I think the only person who MUST know the truth about my income ( or my sex life ) regardless of our degree of social closeness and emotional intimacy , ..is the IRS guy. Or the OB-GYN.
There are boundaries , social, emotional and psychological , that are to be only crossed in due time, proper context and proper way- you do it wrong ? at your own risk and peril ,then.
Of course, by now I don't NEED at all to lie, I don't even bother to lie. Faced with a jerk question, I can smile coldly, say " sorry that's private " , and change subject. But, I am not 18 anymore, and since a long time. Both kids need to learn how to set and how to respect boundaries in this type of things- and the sooner the better.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (1 April 2014): If a woman on a first date asks a man how much money he makes, should she excuse him lying just because he didn't like how soon she asked him the question?
The dating process includes uncomfortable questions. The truth still matters.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (31 March 2014):
" But it was not right " ? Perhaps . Neither it's right, though, asking rude, intrusive, none-of-your-business-questions to a woman you barely know during your first date or , I gather, even before .
Sure, if the girl had been older/smoother/quicker she would have known to stop you dead on your tracks, OP, with a firm " That's not up for discussion atm ", or a " Why do you presume you can ask ". She did the second best thing she could do, giving a " defensive " answer to protect herself from ( in her experience ) very possible wrong assumptions.
I am all in favour of telling the truth- to whom has the RIGHT to know. Ask stupid, vulgar, invasive questions... and know you will get either silence or bullshit answers.
Growp up, OP- and refine your conversational skills.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (31 March 2014): She should have declined to answer questions about her sexual past. That would have been fair to both you and her.
Her lying was politically correct and understandable. But it was not right.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2014): I am shocked by your post.I am beautiful and sexy and flirty.I am wondering how many guys think I must have slept with so many guys.I have only slept with one guy my whole life.
That post was so judgmental.I wish she reads this post and stays away from you.You are raising red flags by the dozen.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2014): "She said she wouldn't had lied had I not brought the question up." - exactly, and you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.
"I said that I felt insulted..." and how do you think she felt when you brought up the subject of sex, with her not wanting to broach that subject?
You have the "right" to feel anything, whether or not it's a justified feeling. Since you feel this annoyed, break it off. You'll be doing her a favour.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie  +, writes (29 March 2014):
 I guess she found out you ARE not like those guys, you are petty and self righteous.
I don't blame her for not wanting to talk about her sex life (whether she has had one or not) and I don't blame her for not being sure if you are "one of those" guys or not. SHE doesn't know you.
3 dates in and you feel you have a "right" to know her sexual status? Really?
I don't think you have ANY right to feel annoyed with her, yet I know you feel annoyed anyway.
I hope you let her go so she can find a guy who doesn't think the world revolves around him and his "rights".
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2014): Let her go, OP, and walk away. She needs to find a guy with more fortitude and one who doesn't take minor things personally.
You're worse than "one of those guys" you're a drama queen looking for problems and will make a miserable boyfriend to her because you lack maturity.
First off how the hell can you be insulted when she barely knows you? She didn't assume you were any type of guy, she's just protecting herself from all guys and made no assumptions about your character at all. Yet you somehow twist that into her being some kind of major liar who thinks you're a dickhead? Grow up, and stop being petty.
I mean if this is what you're like, someone who thinks people should automatically know you're some amazing guy and not have any protective mechanisms or you'll feel hurt and insulted then you're too weak and egotistical for a woman like her.
You're worse than the guys who want to pop her cherry as a trophy, at least she knows where she stands with them. With you she has to walk on eggshells because at every opportunity if things don't go your way or if she doesn't stroke your fragile ego for you and just assume you're amazing then you'll throw your toys out of the pram.
She lied to you, you think it's a major lie so just walk away, you have the right to your own conditions in dating, OP, and lies are not good so it's better you walk.
The funny thing about all this is you're exactly the kind of guy whose attitude makes her feel the need to lie. You seem shocked she's a virgin, you suddenly act like she's kind of freak and even put an exclamation mark beside your sentence.
You have a right to be annoyed and cautious, it's your life, but it makes you a child too immature to give this woman what she wants. She doesn't know it yet but you're a far worse proposition than any guy only in it for her virginity because your expectations are based on the fragility of your ego. An ego that so fragile that you're now upset because she wanted to protect herself from all men, you take it as an insult that she wouldn't treat you like a king that would never do anything wrong when she doesn't even know you.
I hope she sees sense or that you grow up quickly. Because this beautiful, wonderful girl you've met has been saving herself for the right guy and right now you're not it, you're not even a guy, you're a boy.
The best piece of advice I can give you, OP, is to learn that not everything is about you and you need to work on your self-esteem if you need validation from others so immediately that you get insulted for the wrong things. Because guess what, the smart women will test you and you're the one who has to prove yourself to them, you don't get to throw a hissy fit because women think you're awesome and trustworthy by default, you had the exact same idiotic reaction as most guys when they find out she's a virgin and that's to view her as some kind of freak. Something tells me you're dying to sleep with her now too but think you're better than other guys because you want to play the long slow game first.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2014): She was worried that you are one of those guys who cares about whether or not she's a virgin.. and you are. You say for different reasons, but you are still objectifying her and assuming by her looks and actions that she lots of sexual experience. That is a ridiculous assumption.
Stand a beautiful, flirty woman next to a plainer, flirty woman - you can't tell by looks who has slept with more men! Just because a woman has an opportunity to sleep with men doesn't mean she has taken up any or all of these opportunities. Also, just because a woman is flirty, it doesn't mean she wants to have sex with just anyone.
You're lucky she didn't cut you off when you asked her the very intrusive question. A tip from a woman: don't ask for numbers, not in the early days.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2014): Are you kidding?
Sorry dude, but you need to check yourself.
Okay, so you wanted her to know you're not "one of those guys" but she couldn't have known that when you asked about sex so early on.
You might be a really nice guy, but from what you've shown so far, you're acting like a slightly delusional jerk.
If you don't want to be "one of those guys" leave mentioning sex until at least the 3rd month, not 3rd date. It's none of your business until you're official and are about to have sex, even then, a girl's "number" still isn't any of your business.
Cool it with the super personal talk until you know them better. If I were you, I'd apologise for asking such a private question. If I were her, I'd have left as soon as you asked the question.
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (29 March 2014):
 You are a drama queen. Seriously. No wonder she lied when you barely know her, yet the first thing you do is start prying into her sex life. You dont want to come across as one of "those" guys? Then stop asking girls hou barely know such innapropriate questions. This isnt a "big lie" on her part, it is common sense.
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A
female
reader, Daisy_Daisy +, writes (29 March 2014):
 I think she's the one who should feel annoyed actually. You're virtually a stranger and you asked her something very personal. Perhaps she shouldn't have lied, rather said 'we can discuss this when we know each other better', but I do understand why she lied when she was put on the spot.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2014): For young girls in the UK nowadays, the subject of virginity and how many partners you've had etc. is a really tricky area. If a girl isn't she's a 'whore', and if she is she's a prude. guys seem to be happy with neither and yet desire both at the same time. So I can understand why she lied.
Secondly as some have already pointed out, she confesssed she lied only 3 dates in and gave what I believe is a reasonable explanation.
Thirdly, if you've only been on 3 dates, why is this even such a big issue?! what ever happened to taking it slow, I think you both need to step back and start thinking about other eeasons for being in a realtionship besides sex.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2014): She is right.
She didn't know you.
She would have been stupid to trust you when she didn't know you. Now that she knows you, she told you.
You have a wise one on your hands. Realise this or risk losing her.
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A
female
reader, Ciar  +, writes (29 March 2014):
 Wow. I could go through our archives and find scores of men who would love to have your problem.
OP, you can feel whatever you want to feel, but in my opinion you have no valid cause to condemn her.
This woman hardly knows you and you're already sniffing around in her personal business. She doesn't have to find you trustworthy just because you say you are.
If you think people (men) are any more open minded about sex today then think again. Women are under enormous, unrelenting pressure when it comes to sex and their sexual pasts regardless of how many or how few partners have been in it. Despite that she has enough self respect and enough sense not to allow herself to be used by men for their entertainment.
She was right to be cautious and she had every right to withhold information you weren't entitled to (at least not yet). If you don't want to be lied to then don't ask intrusive questions. Lying about one thing does not mean she'll lie about everything. Remember that you only found out because she came clean.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2014): Young man, you are being very boyish. She explained why she lied, and in most instances guys get angry; because girls lie that they are virgins when they are not. Your reaction doesn't make any sense. If you're searching for excuses to bail out because you're insecure, so be it.
Females have a right to be protective of their bodies; and should know who they are dealing with and what your intentions are. If she thought you were like all the others, it was wise on her part to err on the side of caution. Being childish in your thinking, you wouldn't realize that.
Being a virgin, she isn't sure how to respond; because the minute a virgin admits it; guys are on a mission to deflower her. I'm very much on her side, and I hope perhaps she may want to wait. If you are so childish as to behave in such a way, perhaps her first time should be with someone more mature in his thinking, and a lot more understanding.
You're not even officially her boyfriend and you're admonishing her for a lie. Which she later recanted.
Just who do you think you are?
If you have trust issues, that's your problem. Just by your overreaction; I can tell that you may not be the right guy for this girl. If you can't trust her, do her a favor and set her free. Do something about your temper in the meantime. Your anger is inappropriate.
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