A
female
age
41-50,
*zcats
writes:So Ive been with this guy on and off for more than a year now (Dec 07). We get along well, have good sex and get along with our friends. We dated officially for a good half of the time we were together but since June of last year we have gone back and forth between dating, official to FWB or even him telling me he just wants to be platonic friends because he doesnt want to lose me. In September we became official again but very soon after he became cold and was keeping things from me and excluding me from his friends. He wasnt cheating or doing anything bad but for some reason he kept me in the dark. 3 weeks later he breaks up with me. I gotta admit that during that time, I became one of those weak, insecure and neurotic girlfriends. I attribute it to the hiding and exclusion. After that we had our first no contact for 2 months initiated by me. He broke the contact by calling me a few times here and there to see if i would bite. Which i eventually did.In late November I decide to meet him for coffee. I was still very angry about his actions the last time. I let him have it verbally and he took it all. Was very chivalrous. He said he really wants to be friends and will take any punishment given. We had gone for a movie and when he drops me back home he doesn't want it to end. I give him the set of rules if we are to be friends. No sex, no conspicuous touching or comments. He tells me it was very hard for him to not hold my hands when i was cold and not to kiss me. He quickly changed to tell me he really missed me and doesnt know what to do. He feels very empty even though he has everything. Job, friends, security. We were good for a good 2 weeks when things start going back to something more like FWB. I put a stop to it and said no more sex after an argument. This is when he tells me for the first time that he loves me. HE LOVES ME. he tells me 3x this then ends it with... I love you but Im not in love with you. 2-3 more weeks later and I brake it off. He blows hot and cold and he still didnt want to acknowledge me in front of his friends.He became very distant by late January, not hearing from him during the week and it was me who would call on Saturday. We always ended up doing something but losing patience I told him to take a hike and not to bother me. He tried to come back and apologize when i was out of town at one point and i chewed his head off. I had sent him a letter telling him how I felt and when he called to "apologize" he dismisses it and says he just wants to take me out to dinner. I told him to take a hike. 2 more months later... March 2009. It was me who opened the can of worms. I was really missing him for a whole week and well... horny too. We have great sex so I decide to call him for a booty call. Instead I get much more. He was ecstatic to hear from me and glad to cancel any plans he had to hang out. He took me out to dinner, wined and dined me and made plans for the weekend. He told me how much he missed me. Told me I was perfect for him in every way. We were very open in talking about what we felt and thought. Something that didnt happen before. We spend all of saturday together. He immediately falls into holding my hand and kissing and cuddling. He asks me what it is that we are and what I want. i told him if this is to be more than Thursday I want it to be more than just FWB. He tells me that though we seem to be perfect he is not sure we do well in a relationship but is willing to give it a try the open communication. We agree to start casual and work up to serious again. Since he has been showing me off to his friends, openly kissing me and not hiding me or our relationship.BUT he tells me again that though everything fits with us, he feels that he still isnt in love with me. He misses me, loves me, doesnt want to lose me but not in love with me??? WTH does that mean? Someone please help me decipher this. Though our relationship is very rocky. Each time I put my foot down he "comes out" more and expresses more his feelings for me, with me and with others, but just doesnt hedge for commitment. WHY????
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female
reader, azcats +, writes (10 April 2009):
azcats is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks again for all your help and advice.
I wanted to wait to respond because I wanted to see where this new re-encounter was heading. I agree with you that he does not consider me much of anything if he doesnt want to claim me as his girlfriend let alone his wife in the future.
I let things go with the flow and focus on myself and my life and not put too much seriousness to our relationship while it was undefined. He doesnt say hes not in love with me anymore and he doesnt say that we are undefined though he still thinks we are complicated. His actions though tell me differently now. If we dont see each other, which is rare, he'll call or text me. I rarely take the initiative for anything because he beats me to the punch. He talks about the future like Im in it when we discuss trivial things and most of all, he is very open in discussing anything now. Even when we have a discord, we talk it out.
I dont know what it was that made him made such a 180 but it seems to be working now. I took your advice to heart and didnt explode or run away because of a fight or jealousy. I also didnt really close my options and he took notice of that. Like you said, maybe he feels more comfortable opening up because Im not gonna disappear whenever we have a fight and knows that im still on the market if he doesnt step up. Its been almost a month now and he seems more attached to me than ever. Still too early to tell if this is gonna be a long term consistent thing or not but now Im comfortable enough to give it a try. He has given me that comfort and calmness.
Thank you again for everything.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2009): The reason I pay attention to events and actions is bc even if they dont see this as commitment it means that their state of mind is already of one whether they realize it or not. I dont really want marriage right now. If he asked right now I would probably be very confused. What I want is security that he is not just using me as the girl in the mean time.
Do you see what you are doing here in this paragraph.
You are purposely keeping yourself in a state of denial.
You completely contradict yourself without even knowing it yourself. You say even if a guy doesn't see events as committment, it means that their state of mind os already of one (committed) whether they realize it or not.
Hello, if a guy does not see events as commitment then his state of mind is still one of noncommitment or simply dating and humming along with the status quo....It really doesn't matter if they don't realize it because that is what you want them to do is to realize it, meaning that they have made a conscious decision to be committed.
Do you know that love is not feelings, you can't wait around for his feelings because even if you did that isn't what love is about, not true long lasting love. The very definition of love is that it is "a conscious decision to be worthy of love, to be putting the partner's needs above one's own to commit to being a person worthy of love" Love is about action, you have to do love every day and take care of your partner's needs and thereby being a person worthy of love. Love is not a feeling, get that through your head and you will be way ahead of everyone else who doesn't have a clue about love.
The other part of your statement is I do not really want marriage right now, if he asked now I would be confused.
What I want is SECURITY that he is not using me as the girl in the meantime.
Here again you are confusing yourself. See right here tells me that your focus is entirely on him and you do not know what you want. You probably would be confused about HIM if he asked you to marry him right now because you don't really trust him....What you need to do is to get real with yourself....put the focus on YOU. What do YOU want. I bet you want to be happy ever after with a man, that YOU want to BE MARRIED period, to somebody. You are not looking for Security, you are looking to live happily ever after with a man which has a certain amount of security in it. This guy offers you security in that you are not entirely alone....but he is not giving you what you really want for your life and that is to live happily ever after. So don't make the mistake of following him off your life's path to follow him around in HIS confusion, it will not get you the guy, and it will make you loose your focus at getting for yourself the life you really want which is to be claimed by a man as his one and only the love of his life....you want marriage.
Don't be ashamed of that, own it and find the man who wants you....don't waste your time on guys who are confused...bs, he's not confused, he doesn't want the you, he doesn't want the same things as you, you are NOT on the same page here.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2009): You know I have been in your position more times than I would like to count.
Here is what I think. You and he are each other's security blanket, he even treats you like one...by calling at the last minute, by telling you he is not in love with you but he loves you. What????? His fear is that he will date you casually like this forever and you will end up with someone else and he will be an old man...he fears he will end up in a loveless marriage with you...
THIS GUY DOES NOT LOVE YOU HE HAS BEEN WASTING YOUR TIME FOR OVER A YEAR AND HE HAS NOT ASKED YOU TO BE HIS GIRLFRIEND. It doesn't have much to do with you.
I think you are closed off to the possibility of other men....because he is your security.
You two are in an unhealthy on again off again pattern which indicates that you both have intimacy issues.
I am glad to hear that you are dating other men, sorry to hear that you haven't told him in these very clear terms that he cannot have him all to yourself and that you will be dating others. I am sorry to hear that you make yourself available to him at the drop of a hat...those are priveledges you give a guy who is committed to you.....he doesn't work for you because he doesn't have to and the way a man's mind works this makes you seem cheap in his eyes. I am talking about cheap versus expensive....as in even you don't value yourself or think you are a diamond instead of a lump of coal.
You have a decision to make. Do you stay in this dead end love affair and continue to waste your very love life on him and half ass date other guys without being open to them emotionally. Or do you have the emotional strength to set some boundaries finally with the main guy, remain open emotionally to him, but also remain open emotionally and let some other men in so that if you and he or you and they start falling in love that you will allow someone to step up to the plate and claim you as the ONE.
And you did not hear my lesson that men do NOT see events in their mind that they are committed to you. It means something if they are not introducing you to the important people in their life (they are using you, intend to dump you) but it does not mean that they are committed it just doesn't....you are dating him that is all in his mind....so do not make that mistake and think you have something here when you don't. This relationship is not progressing, it hasn't moved to the next level, he doesn't even call you his girlfriend....after a year you are clearly wasting your time with him.
If he wants to just be friends then I think if you have a lot of feelings for him you should cut off all contact and try to move on. It will hurt at first because he's been a habit to you and a sense of security....this guy is shy, he doesn't date, he isn't going to ever reject you because you don't reject him. Now does that sound like true love to you? You may want to do this even if he claims he loves you. Hell I love my mom and dad but I don't want to marry them....do you get what I am saying. It is not that hard for a guy to say he loves you....actions speak louder than words.
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A
female
reader, azcats +, writes (26 March 2009):
azcats is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for your comment rhythmandblues2.I gotta admit I agree with you that each time I take him back it gives him the idea that Im easy and will always take him back. I never really realized though, that each time I break up can also make him uneasy to want to commit. I thought I was putting my foot down so he would take me seriously so I guess I also have something to do with the actual rockiness of our relationship. Hes been steadily slow from the get-go.The reason I pay attention to events and actions is bc even if they dont see this as commitment it means that their state of mind is already of one whether they realize it or not. I dont really want marriage right now. If he asked right now I would probably be very confused. What I want is security that he is not just using me as the girl in the mean time.I have asked him what he thinks of me, this past saturday even. He tells me he has little to no complaints about me and lists things he likes. I have no doubts he likes me and my personality. My doubts start when I ask him how he feels about me. He has progressed to tell me he loves me but then says he is not in love with me. He tells me he misses me when Im not around and doesnt want to lose me but when things get comfortable, hes not in such a rush to make plans with me. Its more a spontaneous thing yet we always see each other pretty often (3-4x a wk). He is contradictory in his words and actions. He only puts the full court press when hes about to lose me. All the other times is a very quiet and low-key. He wont call to chat but will send a msg saying good night. He usually doesnt call to do things for the weekend but once it arrives he calls to do something. This guy doesnt date and doesnt really look for girls when out with his friends. Hes the quiet guy in the crowd and very much a homebody. His friends tell me to be patient and not to pressure him much and kinda scoff at the comment of him not being IN LOVE with me.When we were deciding what to do with "us" he told me his biggest fear was that we continue on an on/off relationship for 2-5 years and end up a single old guy or in a loveless relationship. This is the reason why I didnt want to make it official as a girlfriend. I didnt want to invest all my time with him and get him to be comfortable without feeling he had to work for it this time. I know Im the only one dating outside of him but I dont let him know. He only knows Im very outgoing and that lots of people call me, including guys. He always wants to know who the are and how we met etc. Even now, Im kind of dating but feel like I cant really open up to something more with anyone until I know what to do with the main guy.And I only do this out of fear Im wasting my time with him. My fears come from his. So what do I do with this whole "not in love" comment. Can he be just scared? or is he really not and knows hes not but doesnt want me to leave anyways? If you havent noticed, Im always very skeptical.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (24 March 2009): Why is a good question.
A couple of observations, you keep breaking up with him in order to get more out of him in the way of him stepping up and claiming you as official.
When you do that, he sees that you are easy, each time no matter what he does or says to you, you will take him back and he can continue getting you all to himself without giving you all of himself.
Here is where you are falling into a trap, the girlfriend trap. The thing is committment is a process and we women see events as reasons to believe the man is truly committed to us, we don't pay attention to feelings we pay attention to events, the dinners, the friends and so forth.
Men don't see those events or things that he does as commitment....to him you both are still only just dating.
He can call you a girlfriend to keep you from dating other men, that way he knows you are waiting for him and with little effort he can have you all to himself.
What you want is committment from him, dare I say a commitment of marriage where he steps up and claims you as the person he is in love with and wants to be with forever...
Part of what you are doing wrong is getting mad at him when ever you see him and slapping him back. You aren't making him feel safe to become committed to you....he knows you will get mad and break things off.
So what do you do? You try to let him see more of how you are feeling. You let him know that you like him just the way he is and that you are not mad at him for not being committed to you....that he has the right to take as long as he likes to fall in love with you or decide if he wants you as his one and only, to step up and claim you as his own.
Then you tell him while he is taking the time to make up his mind, then he cannot have you all to himself and then you take your focus off of him and start putting it on you. You date some other men, and you can also let him know that if he starts seeing other women that he stands the chance to lose you forever....he doesn't have to like it, but you are the selector in this relationship, he has to work to get you, not the other way around....and you don't do that by getting mad at him and breaking up all the time. You get more comfortable with intimacy, you really get in there and communicate with him about everything you want everything you would like him to do and what you both want for your futures. And you still live your own life, you don't go off your path to happy ever after and follow him around and ask him what he is doing, you will know.
Ask him where he sees himself in five years and listen to his answer. Ask him what his short term goals are and what his long term goals are and if there is a disconnect you have a guy who is without a plan.
You ask him what he thinks of you....and he will start listing your qualities. Then you ask him how he feels about you, and listen to what he says.....and you will know where you stand.
I think you already know where you stand. He hasn't stepped up and claimed you. Everything up until marriage is on the table and he declares you are the ONE he wants forever, is just dating to a man. So you do the same thing you date other men and you don't take yourself off the market for a man who isn't sure about you....
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