A
male
age
51-59,
anonymous
writes:My wife and I have been together for 16 years, married for 13 years. During this time we got along well in a day-to-day sense, but 5 years into the marriage she moved out of our apartment and into an apartment of her own. The ostensible reason was that her commute was too long. It was sometimes 3-4 hours each day (roundtrip). I helped her find a place and she would come back to our old place on the weekends. Sometimes I would visit her during the week, usually (but not always) spending the night. Eventually, I got a big raise and was able to afford a house. We started looking at houses together and bought one. My raise was big enough that she didn't have to work anymore either, so she quit and moved back in with me. Now, after many discussions, she admits that she moved out mostly because she needed her own place. She said I am too controlling and she felt suffocated. There is truth to that, but I wish she would have told me that at the time. She sees that time as a separation, while I never really saw it that way until now and I am hurt and a little upset that she didn't sit me down and tell me the truth. She says that she did tell me I was that way, and maybe she is right and she did, but I think that her moving out as a result might have been the wakeup call I needed - one that I now have 8 years too late.My wife also stopped having sex with me shortly after marriage except for the period where she had her own place when she would consent sometimes. Once she moved back in with me the sex stopped. We have never had sex in this house that we have owned for almost 10 years! We talked extensively about the reasons why and she gave a litany of excuses, but now she says that the real reason is that I was (am) controlling, verbally abusive, and critical of her and that she just shut down as a result.She is 41 now and is upset that she will probably never have children, but it's pretty hard to have children if we never had sex. I see that as a failing on her part for either not leaving the relationship or telling me that we needed to get help. I won't say I thought I was the perfect partner all of this time, but let's say my opinion was that we both shared some culpability. When the sex stopped, my anger and resentment grew and I took it out on her. In fact, I made a point of telling her why I was so upset with her sometimes (lack of intimacy) which probably didn't help my case any. It is my fault as much as hers for not considering counseling at that point, although I always felt I was doing more than my share. I always wanted to talk and communicate to try to improve the relationship and she says that she just remained quiet and "began to accept it." I finally decided that enough is enough. It's time to make it or break it. It's made her start to tell me some of the things that have upset her for so long. This is progress. I asked her why she would move back in with a man she wanted to get away from and she said "because I think we are soulmates." So much water is under this bridge now and so much resentment has been built up. I recently caught her flirting and crushing on coworkers (which she denies) so now I have a complete lack of trust in her, too. She says she knows I was running around on her when we were separated, but I did not. I asked her for proof and she said "I saw a picture of a woman on your laptop." She can't (or won't) give me more details than that. I asked her what I can do to prove to her I did not and she said "There's nothing you can do." She says I want "the perfect woman" and that by bringing up our sex problems I am just pointing out another flaw with her. The truth is that I want her, but I do not feel loved or wanted by her. I feel like I do all the work in the relationship. I do admit that I am controlling (much better now than a decade ago), verbally abusive (I yell a lot), and jealous (only now that I haven't been laid in 10 years and she is flirting with other men; I was never like that). I want to be a better man for her. However, I don't get the feeling she wants to be a better woman. She still doesn't see that she played any part in this - even if just for being complacent and (trust me) she is no innocent victim here who doesn't have her own personality flaws. I am trying to convince her that we can go to counseling and either make this work or else figure out that it can't work, but at least we can be happy and stop living this lie that we are happy. She says it's just an excuse to leave her for a younger, more career-minded woman like I want to do anyway and that I want to see the counselor so that I won't feel guilty about it and can say "Well, I tried." I want her to accept some responsibility for where we are today and stop blaming me for everything wrong in the relationship. I want her to show some good faith and look like she's making an effort so that we can start to rebuild trust. I feel like I have already extended the olive branch here so she has no right to any further expectations from me until she takes a step, too, and says "Maybe there are sometimes valid reasons you feel and act the way you do. Let me try harder to understand them, because I want to make a life with you." However, this last part seems to be very hard for her. In her mind she is justified for everything she did and does because I am a villainous ass, but if I ask her why she would stay with a man like that for so long she says "Because I love everything else about you."Please help me save my marriage. I feel like my wife and I are so close and yet there is this chasm we cannot bridge - like we are standing on opposite sides and my hand is out, but she doesn't want to take mine because she feels I will let go of her and she will fall. How can I convince her that she has to make an effort and she may very well fall but that if she doesn't we will stand on opposite sides forever?
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female
reader, RedAthena +, writes (23 June 2011):
 I have a slightly different take on this.
You have had this problem a LONG time. First, let me narrow down the facts.
Known each other 16 years
Married for 13 years
She moved OUT after 5 years of marriage.
Years later, your income allowed her to not work anymore
so she quit and moved back in with me.
Later, she admitted why she needed to move out years ago.
Due to..
*You being too controlling/suffocating
You admit that is true, but wish she TOLD you at the time? Someone is supposed to TELL you what you already know is true?
*She saw that time as a seperation of marriage, rather than as a convienience to her work commute.
Now you are upset to find out the real reasons to why she had the apt. This was all in the past right?
You agree with her reasons, but you are upset she did not tell you upfront/sooner? HUH?
If she tried to tell you/discussed with you in the past, is it possible you were quite oblivious to the needs and wellbeing of your wife?
*Your marriage has been mostly sexless after your marriage, I assume you addressed the lack of sex with your wife, due to mentioning her excuses.
They are that you were
*"controlling, verbally abusive, and critical of her and that she just shut down as a result."
Does she have some validity in her REASONS (not excuses) in your behavior mentioned above? If you call them excuses, then you do not validate her feelings/thoughts of WHY she is non-sexual with you now.
"She is 41 now and is upset that she will probably never have children, but it's pretty hard to have children if we never had sex. I see that as a failing on her part for either not leaving the relationship or telling me that we needed to get help."
You are right that she DOES have a responsibility there. If she really wanted children, she should have thought about that as a viable option. But, consider that she may not have KNOWN what to DO to improove the marriage and was waiting to see if things improoved with your bullying ways?
Did you ever want children?
You admit that the lack of intimacy caused you to be very resentful, angry, and you verbally took it out on her.
See how that can perpetuate the cycle? Her withdrawl led to your anger, your anger lead to her withdrawl.
You do accept your part of responsibility of the breakdown in the marriage (well sort of..because you BLAME her for your own actions.)
You could have always gone to a counselor on your own. You STILL can.
Sadly, I did not see you state LOVE anywhere in your motivation for wanting or keeping the marriage. You have only pointed fingers at who is to blame for YOUR unhappiness. Your biggest complaint is no sex. Her biggest complain is that you are mean.
Your wife may have little self-esteem if you have been bulling her all these years. Sex makes a woman feel exposed, vulnerable, etc. Sex with you, after the emotional reaming may have been too overwhelming and made her feel ugly and used. If love is not part of the picture, but rather a marriage of convenience and social acceptace, then the idea of having sex with a mean man because he feels it is his right? Well, that is repulsive to most women. Some women can not have sexual intimacy without deep, comforting EMOTIONAL intimacy.
Then it is not making love, it is just sex and just a duty to keep your anger at bay.
What you view as her "crushing and flirting" on coworkers, may not be the case. She may simply be friendly, warm, etc to them. If she is not warm and friendly to you, then I can see how you would feel jealous and cheated from her affection.
It seems the BOTH of you have a complete breakdown in trust and communication and handle dissagreements VERY poorly.
You both blame each other for your lack of love.
Why DO you want the marriage? WHY do you want her? Be Specific! Right now, it does not seem like you even LIKE her as a human being or a friend!
"I do admit that I am controlling (much better now than a decade ago), verbally abusive (I yell a lot), and jealous (only now that I haven't been laid in 10 years and she is flirting with other men; I was never like that)."
Again, you admit that you HAVE been abusive. You imply she deserves the treatment because you have not had sex. Sorry, no sympathy there. Adults learn to control their tempers.
I want to be a better man for her. However, I don't get the feeling she wants to be a better woman.
So, why dont you LEAD by example. You are suggesting that she does not deserve a better man, unless she prooves herself worthy of it. Most marriage counselors will advise husbands to LEAD in LOVE. SO, LEAD in the direction you want to go with your heart! Do not make becoming a better man CONDITIONAL on what you can get from HER. Be a better man because it will make YOU better.
If you are making it some sort of "scorecard". You give first or proove yourself worthy of my love and kindness and I will then change".
Since your wife can not speak for herself here, we can not see her side of the story.
Neither one of you can carry the marriage on your own, but you can not MAKE someone carry their load either. You have to both want it and for the right reasons.
You can not make another person see things your way. They have to get there on their own. You can only accept your part of the blame and how you may have perpetuated the very life you now currently live in. You can not make her accept hers, or apologize, or change her thinking. The damage may be too deep for her to see that.
Further, you want her to validate YOUR feelings, needs, and wants, but have you done the same for her? If not, then you do not have a right to ask her to change either according to your logic.
What is the "everything else" about you she loves? Has she been specific?
Please help me save my marriage.
Ask yourself, is there anything TO save, to repair, to build on?
I am sensing that you never really HAD a functioning marriage since day ONE. Save what? Both of you have different ideals of what marriage is supposed to be. YOu are now both older and set in your ways and expectations of the other and no one gets what they need or want. Both of you have your hand OUT and are unwilling to give first.
My biggest advice is to get to counseling just by yourself. Let her know you are going and you are going to decide if you will be staying married. You can not, and should not be carrying a marriage on your own.
If you are just housemates sharing bills and that does not work for you, then you BOTH need to come to an agreement what marriage means to you and see if you can work towards that. If both of you can not negotiate the give AND take of the relationship, the emotional flow of genuine love and trust, the presence of warm and loving sexual intimacy...then truly you are done and it is time to give it a respectful and decent burial.
Best Wishes.
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2011): You should tell her that you are going to counseling, with our without her, and that you want her to come.Tell her that if she believes you are soul mates, then she should be there for you because your very soul is hurting.That is what soul mates do.Soul mates are not born, they are made, by enduring trials and tribulations.By the way, if your wife wasn't sexually abused as a child or young woman, I'll eat my running shoes (and they are three years old and really foul).You and she desperately need counseling. It took my wife nearly 20 years to begin talking to me, 4 kids, multiple houses and job locations, numerous pets, hobbies, work, 3 counselors, 5 doctors, various different prescription medications, illegal drugs, alcohol, and finally when all else had failed...she started talking...about the real problems.Now, we live in the same house, with the same kids, with pets, garden, same doctor for 8 years, same counselor for over a year, no alcohol, no drugs, no prescriptions, and she actually talks with me about what is going on...but it isn't always easy...hard days come and good days come.Be prepared, if you really want this woman, hope she doesn't wait till she if nearly 50 to talk. But, if you want kids, she wants kids, then don't have them before you start talking because kids will make the hidden issues 10 times worse even if you don't know about them (I know).You can bank embryos for later, or adopt later. You can't easily deal with a broken home, I had to deal with that.
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A
male
reader, C. Grant  +, writes (17 June 2011):
 You've posted such a detailed and well-crafted question, I feel I owe it to you to offer some words of wisdom. Unfortunately I have little to offer.
Yes, you have made great strides in your communication -- that's rather amazing after so many years together.
She is resisting counselling. Have you gone to counselling on your own? That might help you refine your interaction with her to make her less resistant to the whole idea. The awkward thing here is that, while you're quite correct that counselling is a very appropriate step, your history of 'controlling' behaviour makes insisting on seeing a counsellor one more example of being controlling. An unfortunate Catch-22 that a skilled guide might help you to overcome.
You sound sincere in wanting to address the issues in your marriage. She, unfortunately, sounds less motivated. It sounds like she made up her mind several years ago to simply cope, and she's been in that mode for so long she may be too bound by inertia to break out of it.
To move forward constructively she has to believe that you're committed to making it work with her, and that she's better off with a 'new and improved' you rather than hitting the market fresh at 41. She loved you 16 years ago -- try to remind her of how things were then.
You've got your work cut out for you -- best of luck!
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A
male
reader, MikeEa1  +, writes (17 June 2011):
 it reminds me of my marriage. go home so you can find yourself. there is nought to be gained by flogging a dead horse. your wife and you probably totally understand each other on some levels and that is so fantastic. but on other levels that are more important you don't gel. at the end of the day picking a relationship is like picking a racehorse and i wouldn't back yours. get out there and try again. there are lots of beautiful women in the world.
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