A
male
age
51-59,
anonymous
writes:My wife and I have been married 15 years. We have a miserable sex life and have for a long time. It started very early in our relationship where within a year we went from: "I have never been so loud during sex. Can we do it again?" to "Don't touch me. Go away." We have been sleeping in separate beds for about 7 years now and we have sex a few times a year (if that) purely for my sake and usually only after my wife is very, very drunk. My wife is battling a lot of her personal demons. She is dissatisfied with her career, lives far from her family except for her sister (and her sister refuses to have much to do with her except on occasions like birthdays and Christmas - very superficial), struggles with alcoholism (much better now) and depression, and was also sexually abused in the past. I don't know the details of the abuse. She won't tell me other than to say it happened. It's a lot to deal with and I help her to the extent that I can, but she really doesn't open up to me very much. She was prescribed Paxil once upon a time, but she hasn't taken any in almost 6 years.Anyway, we were talking about our terrible sex life and I asked her: "Why don't you want to have sex anymore? You used to like it!" Her response was: "I want to have sex. I just don't want to have sex with you." I wasn't as floored by that as I should have been, and I am more upset by it now than I was then, although it did make me feel hurt and angry. I should've asked who she DID want to have sex with, but I did not. Instead, I asked her "Why?" Her answer was: "Because you are sweet, and you sing to me in a high voice, and you call me silly nicknames." Okay, I get that sometimes women want a man to be less femme, but I am who I am (which is the guy she fell in love with and who used to make her toes curl) and let me tell you that in bed I am not one of those guys who wants to spoon. I have no problem bending her over and taking her while pulling her hair if she wants me to be less metrosexual and more caveman. I prefer rough sex, anyway.Basically, she is saying that she just doesn't find me sexy anymore. What I cannot understand (and she won't say) is what changed. I haven't gained a lot of weight (she has, but only recently - far after these issues started) and I don't think it is lack of physical attraction. She says she feels like a wife and not a girlfriend and with that her sexual desire for me is gone. I am not exactly sure what she means by that. I take her to dinners and shows. I buy her sexy lingerie (which she will sometimes wear, but I can look and not touch) and flowers. I compliment her. I write her love letters. We don't have any kids and she takes care of very little in the household. I actually do more than my share of chores. I think I treat her as well as any man treats a wife and I still try to foster romance even after all these years by taking her away for the weekend a few times a year or making her dinner when she comes home late from work or scheduling a surprise 20 hour layover in Paris when we were on our way to Amsterdam. I don't feel she is being fair because, truthfully, she is the one is doesn't do anything romantic anymore. If I didn't do anything she wouldn't at all. She would sit here it a gray t-shirt and sweats and eat dinner in front of the TV. I shouldn't say she does NOTHING, because sometimes she will pick up a card or a cute stuffed animal for me or something, but it's next to nothing. No kisses on the lips. No "I love you" unless I say it first. Really nasty refusals most of the time when I try to initiate sex. Not: "Maybe tomorrow, babe. I am dead tired and need sleep, but I promise we will." Instead it is: "Oh God! Gross! Will you please just leave me alone? Why do you have to do that? Get away!" This is so devastating I rarely even try anymore. She says she gets horny about once a month, but she doesn't do anything about it (touch herself). I suggested that maybe I could help her out that once a month if she told me when and she was cold to the idea. If I recall correctly it was a nervous laugh and lots of silence.I do not suspect she has had an affair, although many people have warned me of that possibility. There is no evidence of one. I know that there is zero chance of it over the last 3 years or so as she has been working from home and so do I, so we spend almost every waking moment together.I realize she has a million issues to work through, but what puzzles me most is that we HAD a GREAT sex life up until the point where we got married. It's a joke that the sex stops when the ceremony happens, but that has been my experience. We went from sex a few times per week to sex a few times a year in the span of about 18 months and it has been less than that lately because I really stopped trying and mostly rely on porn. She knows I use porn and said she was upset by it and I told her: "What do you want me to do? I would RATHER be with you" to which she said that she understood and it was okay. Truthfully, I have threatened to leave her three times over this already and while it spawns limited conversation that's all it spawns. She insists that is it not unusual for people married as long as we have been to not have sex anymore, which completely glosses over the fact that this started near the BEGINNING of the marriage.I think in some ways she doesn't feel good enough for me or like I am better than her because I am more educated, make more money, and have fewer issues, and she resents that. I try to build her up, but she has no self-esteem or confidence. That has to come from her and, frankly, I think it's a load of bullshit for her to struggle with those deep issues which are lifelong and NEVER put out for your husband who loves you at the same time - like I am going to wait another 20 years for things to be fixed before maybe she decides she will be sexual with me again. Somehow she managed to do it before and she was hardly a virgin when I met her either. She said she would try going to a sex therapist, but is it a sex therapist we need or a marriage counselor or even a psychologist?
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female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (4 February 2012):
 Sorry me again.. last time
"Because you are sweet, and you sing to me in a high voice, and you call me silly nicknames."
Translation: This actually means, because I love you.... women like all these things, she's actually telling you she loves you very much, and she doesn't think she deserves you, so it hurts.
A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (4 February 2012):
sorry forgot...
Depression destroys sex drive, so does any medication to stop the depression... Depression also makes you think that you don't deserve anything good.
See why I'm saying that she needs tons of help.
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A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (4 February 2012):
"I think in some ways she doesn't feel good enough for me"
I'm very sorry your suffering like this, but this is the true reason. It's not that she hates you or finds you unattractive, the fact is she hates and despises herself.
You've mentioned a history of abuse, alcoholism, and depression... classic abuse pattern. Doesn't get dressed, doesn't do anything, doesn't even want sex by herself... classic depression. Alcoholism, drink to fill up the pain inside, drink until you black out and forget... classic abuse self-help.
You can't fix this alone, you both desperately need help. I suggest you threaten to leave unless she gets therapy, because there is no way you can continue to live like this for the rest of your lives.
Solo therapy for her, to deal with the abuse. Joint relationship therapy to improve the situation for you. She needs someone to convince her she deserves a nice husband, and she deserves to be happy and have fun in the bedroom with him. But you help too, about ways to cope, and ways that together you can improve the situation. A third person who knows what's going on (the therapist) should ensure that promises made are kept.
She's been badly abused and it's hiding right down deep in her soul, and it's destroying her inside and it's destroying you.
She can't help what she's doing, she's a very damaged lady. With therapy and help, she should be able at least to be able to see to your needs, even if she's not comfortable yet to see to her own.
And how did she have sex before marriage, probably by pretending to be someone else, someone more confident, somebody crazy and wild, now she feels she is safe, she is being her true self.
This will take time, and there is no demand that you stay and suffer in this prison she is trapped in. Many men can't cope and that is OK. She's trying to hurt you and drive you away with her nasty words, because your too kind, to good for someone as damaged as her. (she thinks)
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A
female
reader, Orbiter +, writes (4 February 2012):
If it wasn't for the fact that she was sexually abused then I would have suggested you leave her. I agree with other people here that you shouldn't be made to suffer for her past, something which you had no part in.
But seeing as she is probably dealing with psychological issues that she's struggling with and you did make vows to stand by her in sickness, I suggest you give your marriage one last shot (and only one).
There's a couple of things in your post which make me think it's not just that she's lost attraction for you over time but is actively trying to push you away.
"Because you are sweet, and you sing to me in a high voice, and you call me silly nicknames."
This answer to me does not necessarily mean she finds you feminine/unatrractive. First reading this I thought it meant something along the lines of I think you're too good for me. Which could also suggest she dislikes herself, fears you are going to leave her so is going to push you away first to avoid getting even more attached to prevent getting hurt.
"Oh God! Gross! Will you please just leave me alone? Why do you have to do that? Get away!"
This seems quite an emotional over reaction for someone who just doesn't want sex.
Also gaining weight (especially perhaps if the pressure's been mounting?) is a well known reaction from people who were sexually abused to make themselves less attractive and therefore avoid unwanted attention.
It could be that you had great sex at first because the emotional side of things weren't so strong. As she's been let down before maybe she didn't expect much but when she became emotionally attached to you, she began to fear you hurting her in some way. She could be fearful to let you get close (emotionally) to her.
She has also never talked about the abuse so is more than likely not over it.
What I'm trying to say is, there are signs here that it's not that she's just lost attraction for you and she probably doesn't mean a lot of what she says. That's what you should try to find out during therapy.
I would see a couples counsellor first and see if they think whether or not you wife may need more help like a psychologist. I'd also agree with the other poster to not pressure her into it, this really needs to be discussed with a counsellor first.
If she won't go to therapy and/or things don't change then I suggest you leave her. It's a sad situation but it will start to drag you down too.
You don't need to threaten or issue her an ultimatum because that won't help or solve anything, just make the conscious decision to leave her if it doesn't work out, no talking afterwards, just stick to it.
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A
female
reader, chocoholicforever +, writes (3 February 2012):
It sounds like your wife has a lot of issues, so it's not about you per se, she probably really can't handle her life as it is, and your presence or attention doesn't feel comforting to her instead it feels like one more stressor.
Her depression, her drinking problem, her past history of abuse...these all point to the fact that she's probably very troubled.
If your extent of talking to her about has focused on "why don't you want to have sex?" or "what can I do to make you want to have sex with me?" ..no matter how gently and caringly you put it, and how much you voice your care and concern for her and that you want to have sex with her out of love, it's just not going to make her want it more and your focus on that is probably a turn off, which is why her response is "get away from me!" Especially if this dynamic has been building up over 15 years, pretty much for the entire length of your marriage, people can get entrenched in the way that they see each other and behave toward each other.
I think you should set aside the issue of the lack of physical intimacy (which is very difficult considering that you've been suffering for 15 years, but that's what happens when problems are not effectively resolved for a long time) and shift gears now, and really try to express your concern for how she is feeling about herself and her life. Her aversion to physical relations with you is a symptom that all is not well in the emotional relationship between you two - how she sees you and what role you play in her life from her perspective (as a help or hindrance to her life?) which might be very different from how you present yourself to her. You might just need to find a different way to show your care and love for her, in order for her to feel it enough to be willing to let you into her inner life.
Then again, there might not be anything that you can do because some times when people have issues of their own that affect the way they see and relate to others, it really is beyond your power to do anything in which case you may have to switch your focus away from how to get her to start meeting some of your needs in this marriage, to accepting that she just isn't able to meet your needs, period. And therefore you have to maybe make some hard choices for yourself. If she is unwilling or UNABLE to meet your sexual needs, then resenting her that it's not right of her not to do that, is futile because that won't improve the situation. In which case, I think you should reconsider if you should stay in this marriage.
"Somehow she managed to do it before "
But even if she "manages" to do it again, is that what you really want - for her to be barely "managing" to have sex with you? That conjures up the image of her doing something she finds really distasteful, is that how you want her to feel about having sex with you? Surely you want her to WANT it again, right? But in order for her to WANT it, she has to be emotionally receptive to it, and if she has a history of abuse that's going to be very difficult, she might not be able to do it. And if you become an additional stressor to her by pressuring her, then that further makes having sex with you into a mentally aversive situation to her.
"That has to come from her and, frankly, I think it's a load of bullshit for her to struggle with those deep issues which are lifelong and NEVER put out for your husband who loves you at the same time - like I am going to wait another 20 years for things to be fixed before maybe she decides she will be sexual with me again. "
My personal opinion is that with these chronic long-term problems in a marriage, you have two options: One is that you make the decision that you are COMMITTED to your spouse because you took vows to stay with them no matter what. You make a decision to love them for who they are, their limitations and all. You willingly choose to focus on what you DO have, and foster and build that, even if it means giving up other things that you really want. Even if she can never feel OK about having sex with you again, you will still love her because you made a commitment to her and you dont' want her to do something that traumatizes her. If you are able to do this, then great. But it has to be a willing decision, not a grudging one. Your relationship has to be genuinely positive enough (which may be able to be achieved through working on the marriage) to overcome the long-term deficiencies in the marriage (such as her inability to be intimate with you).
But not everyone can do this, and if you can't do this it's not your fault. If this situation is the case, and I can see that you've tried for 15 years to do everything you can, then I think the best thing to do is to get divorced so that you can both be free to find other people who *can* meet your needs, and to stop hurting each other. you're clearly feeling very hurt by her lack of intimacy, and whenever you pressure her to be intimate you're probably making her feel uncomfortable to some degree. And this has been going on for 15 years. So if you have reached a stalemate where you're miserable after having tried everything for years, then I feel the healthiest thing for both of you is to get divorced, because it's not right to continue a marriage where you're just going to continue to feel highly upset and deprived and then get angry and resentful toward her. You're just trapping each other in ongoing misery, and there's no point to such a marriage.
Finally, if you've already threatened 3 times to leave her, and yet you still haven't, then it's time you take responsibility for yourself and actualyl follow through on it.
Every time you threaten to leave her over her lack of intimacy, you're helping to ensure that she will hate the idea of intimacy with you, even more.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (3 February 2012): It's not about what you ar doing or not doing, so stop blaming yourself. It's about her unwillingness to be in partnership with you, not just sexually. Good luck. Move on.
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A
male
reader, olderthandirt  +, writes (3 February 2012):
 Take it from one who has been around a long time.women don't retain their sex-drive much past the thied year of being together. You can look forward to a sexless maraige or get a divorce. Those sadly are the only options. Good luck
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (3 February 2012): Same here at many levels.
Wife had a history of abuse, her father was an alcoholic, she'd been raped, and gradually she ended up slipping into alcoholism herself, and had an affair while on a binge after we'd been married for several years and had children.
Rejecting me, but treating me like someone who had rejected her instead.
You don't need a sex therapist, you need a couples counselor and will need a lot of time in counseling. Don't be surprised if you find out you really don't know much about your wife. She drinks for a reason.
"some ways she doesn't feel good enough for me or like I am better than her because I am more educated, make more money, and have fewer issues"
Exactly what my wife said to me.
She had the affair with an uneducated guy who worked a couple of part time jobs and didn't give a rip about much in life, footloose and fancy free. Which is what she became in the affair.
I could have written everything in your post, and my wife was no virgin and professed to love sex, but she ended up not loving sex with me. Why? Finally, in counseling, we figured that out. Because I reminded her of all the terrible shit that had happened in her life, and what she'd not been able to accomplish because of it, and that none of that had ever happened to me just made her feel "inadequate".
Women who come from alcoholic families are often abused, sexually and physically, and later victims of rape (statutory and otherwise) and alcoholic women almost invariably end up cheating, being raped, etc. As they say in AA, "alcohol is an equal opportunity destroyer".
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A
male
reader, Relationship.Chef +, writes (3 February 2012):
 First off, forget her trying to better herself. If it hasn't happened by now, what makes you think it is going to happen in the near future?
Secondly, for you, sex is an extension of your love towards her, yet, for her, it is nothing more than self-validation by you.
If I had to guess, this woman is in fairly decent depression, and, the last thing she needs is cuddling and comforting by you, as well as hearing things like "Love you, do you need anything?".
Unfortunately, she sees you as an exacerbating factor to the way she's feeling, that's why she tells you "I want sex, just not with you".
Change the way she sees you (not necessarily change yourself), and, there may still be hope for the two of you.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (3 February 2012): if she was sexually abused this is most likely a major issue in what is going on here. that needs to be addressed as well as the other issues.
it's not a matter of romance, niceness, aggressive sex or whatever else.
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