| A
female
,
*ikabu
writes: Hello, I have the most wonderful man in my life. We have been together for over 5 years and we were just married in October of this year. We get along great and enjoy each other's company. There is nothing I can't say to him and he seems to feel the same about me. That being said... we do have one terribly sore subject between us in which we are polar opposites! He really likes to look at porn and that really bothers me.I have tried to deal with this in many ways, like banning it, and I just forgive and forget when he slips. This isn't working and i have discovered that my gutteral reaction to the sight of porn isn't really natural. It doesn't interfere with our sex life... much. In fact, usually if I discover that he has been watching porn, I also discover an increase in passion and frequency with him. He is ten years older than me and doesn't seem to want sex as much as I do and I think that is part of the problem because before I got with him I had never been turned down in bed by a boyfriend before. I feel like I am not enough and it really hurts me. He doesn't particularly care if I wear lingerie for him and he never looks at the naughty pictures he took of me. Why? He says he finds me sexy and he is very considerate and good to me in bed, but he lacks passion and energy. I am trying to change my opinion and gut reaction to porn, which I think is a direct result to my Catholic upbringing by the way. My husband says I make him feel dirty and bad because he enjoys looking at porn. I never want to make him feel that way but its kind of how I view porn. I am taking steps, with him, to overcome my aversion to it, but Im afraid that if I do come to some sort of compromise that we can both deal with... and it DOES improve our sex life.. then I really am NOT enough right?Wannabe The 1
View related questions:
porn, sex life Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 December 2006): To Ironic Nostalgia - I am your new #2 fan in the whole wide world. 8]
I wasn't able to refine my thoughts in text form for the people who was reading my post. Aside from the last two statements made by possibly anon who said she read all of my posts and she still thinks I am Pro-Oppressive Sexual Monster, well, yeah, ain't that just fantastic?
So I read Ironic Nostalgia's post and wow, you totally nailed it right into the temples and through the brains - very nice.
I mean, ignorance has its uses too - it keeps people following the same route continuously, even if they are walking on a tight rope to their demise. However, it just shows how stubbornly faithful they are, whilst annoying the jeebus out of people like me to no end.
Then those who has actually have the decency to take other aspects of porn and relationship into perspective like Ironic Nostalgia has, and give people the concepts and facts of how people like me view porn. First and foremost, I don't look at mainstream porn - maybe once every now and then, but I would say 90% of the time, I look at other couples, home-made stuff, Playboy, sensual nudity - eg: MET Art, etc. I'm not a big fan of pain and multiple guys jerking off on a woman's face. It's just not my thing.
So before those ladies/guys who point fingers at me and call me a stupid, sensible, oh wait what did she say? "pure stupidity and selfishness is totally sickening and frustrating,....PS Ive looked over your past post and see Im not the only one who see through you pro porn hand on dick agenda"
^^ Ah yes, that's what she said... I'm too sick of people like you to sigh directly into your face. I'll just bring a donkey over and have it fart in your face. [wink]
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 December 2006):
a good compromise. Allow him to view lesbian porn- especially with hot asians.
...............................
A
male
reader, ironic nostalgia  +, writes (8 December 2006):
 this may be a little late but...to the anonymous female reader, i understand where your perspective is coming from. i, too, have studied gender and feminist theory in college, and pornography is a topic in feminist theory that i am familiar with.basically, your perspective is rooted in the idea that all pornography is inherently negative and oppressive, but that is not necessarily so. while mainstream pornography is generally exploitative to women, that does not mean that all porngraphy is so. the reasons for mainstream porngraphy being the way that it is are various -- one being that men make up the largest market share of the audience, hence why mainstream pornography is filmed from a male perspective centered around male pleasure. but to suggest that all porn is negative/oppressives forces one into a logical bind.such a suggestion can bring one to only a single conclusion -- that because pornography is oppressive by nature, then sex is also oppressive by nature, since sex is the activity depicted in pornopgrahy. this turns sex and sexuality into a one-dimensional activity, which or course it is not.sex and sexuality can be expressed in a multitude of ways. context is what is important here when discussing pornography. perspective and the center of pleasure are also important. examples of pornography that are not oppressive to women exist -- while i can't post examples now because i am at work, i can remember studying lebsian pornography in college. this was a group of lesbian adult filmmakers who filmed lesbian porn for lesbian women. the difference here between this porn and most mainstream porn centers around perspective and pleasure -- who was giving and receiving, etc. would you suggest that this porn is inherently negative? i would think not.your argument is the same as saying that all violent movies are inherently negative, or that all music with explicit lyrics is inherently negative. context is key when making a value judgement such as that. pornography is not always just one such thing. dependent on context, pornography can be liberating or oppressive, for example.but to get back on topic, so long as both partners in the relationship understand each other's use of pornography, i don't see a major problem. pornography is generally used to supplement sex, not replace it; therefore, porn can be a source of pleasure for both partners. if this cannot be the case, then alternative solutions can be reached individually. i suggest discussing with your partner your concerns, and reaching something that is mutually suitable. i wouldnt come to the table with ultimatiums or with uncompromisable suggestions. for example, pornography could be kept a private, individual matter for each of you. i would say that if he is honest and open about watching porn, then there isn't much of a relationship problem here. a discussion of feelings and attitudes would be a good place to start.remember, there is no "one-size fits all" solution here -- you'll have to come up with a unique decision that fits your situation.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 December 2006):
yeah Martini, you porn pro.
Pikabu, good luck to you and your husband. I guess you are free to evaluate what the motoviations are behind the advice you've received. My sincere advice is that men don't see this as anti-wife... it just fantasy.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (7 December 2006): Martini, your own 'arguement' ;lacks any credibility at all and stems entirely from your own love of porn....I for one wont be checking back in on this porst as your pure stupidity and selfishness is totally sickening and frustrating,....PS Ive looked over your past post and see Im not the only one who see through you pro porn hand on dick agenda
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (7 December 2006):
Have you studied Ad hominum arguments at the tertiary level? You really have no idea what my convictions are nor is the zelousness or piety of your position any proof of its soundness.
You ignore the fact that there is no proof that the husband is doing damage to the women in pornography. And you have not shown any mechanism, since tons of online porn is free, whereby by the husband is underwritting an industry that is allegedly exploiting the women involved.
Your advice is does not have a demonstrated basis, is motivated by outside agenda and I dont see how Pikabu would bennefit from following it.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (7 December 2006): bottom line is your the one who suggested he's not satisfied in one area...im saying thyere are men out there who would be satisfied in All areas and she is deserving of one.
besides that we will have to agree to disagree on the politics of porn because I after studying gender issues at a tertiary level for the last 7years I simply cannot turn a blind eye to the misjustice of porn against women...the fact it doesnt turn me on the way it does many supporters only deepens my conviction...Clearly your convictions go the other way and your not too convcerned about who gets hurt for the thrill of exploitation or how many women are hurting over their partners use of porn....anyway...each to their own...you and I are very different, have different experience and Im guessing I have a bout 20yrs relationshp experience on you (although I may be wrong) In my heart I know that what I say is t o speak the truth and that the growing clinics for porn addiction and the growing numbers of women who wont tolerate this prove (to me at least ) that what I say is true...
Continue your beliefs...after all they are those that have been in society for centuries (those of male privelidge) I hope they serve you well and that you never lose a meaningful relationship over porn or that no daughter of yours is ever sexually abused by some porn vviewing freak
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (6 December 2006):
Uh huh, if his clicks have minimal monetary value then he must have minimal culpability.
And what about the amateur couples who post their own sex tapes for kicks? How to you make them out to be victims? At what point do you let adults be adults and make their own decisions?
The questioner says she has a wonderful husband who she has a great relationship with and your advice is:
"Why not find a man who is totally satisfied with the lovin you give him.."
ie. you are advising her to break up with him to satisfy feminist politics.
Maybe you should read Camille Paglia.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (6 December 2006): 'And since internet porn is free, I dont see how he is "supporting child sexual abuse". What about amateur porn couples post themselves? I think you are doing way too much guessing at other peoples motives.'
It supports it because this 'free porn still relies on the models coming in and it does seem that the VAST majority of healthy , mentally well women who were not abused as kids are NOT interested in performing in porn..By merely using the porn that given on the net you are encouraging its production...If there was less demand there would be less porn...Perhaps when these women cannot make a small fortune out of their own exploitation they might seek help through counselling and others ways...perhaps the average woman wont be wanting to end relationships because she cant reconcile in her mind that the man she loves gets of on looking at people who were abused as kids make really really sad decsions for themselves....Its really hard to me and a lot of other women to understand how some men can be so totally uncompassionate and ignore the fact of what these women are doing with their lives just for their own sexual thrills (and yes the some women that do it too)....Dont you understand that its totally sad that people would do this...
Naomi Wolf explains it far better than I can..If your really interested read some of her books.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (6 December 2006): Sorry but that web site is full of hopeless canards.To pick out one:"Fortunately that is changing but it is interesting to note that as the stock of privately owned women decreases (as more women have their own incomes) and sexual harassment in the workplace has been outlawed, the sex industry is churning out more publicly owned females. What's a red blooded guy gonna do when he can't sexually degrade women at work anymore? Now he has to go to a sex club and pay for the privilege. "Uh what! It has never been easier for a man to have casual NSA sex with women and dump them in the last 200 years than it is now. Have you read tuckermax.com? Or the questions that come in on this message board? Absent a 'patriarchal higherarchy' and in a post "Sex in the City" world it is trivial to get women to sleep with you. Academic feminist rhetoric is not helpful to a questioner who starts with "I have the most wonderful man in my life" and wants to know if porn is a problem. The men on here are telling you its about visual appreciation- you are saying it about "sexually degrading women". WHO do you think KNOWS! THE MEN answers. WE know what we are in it for.And since internet porn is free, I dont see how he is "supporting child sexual abuse". What about amateur porn couples post themselves? I think you are doing way too much guessing at other peoples motives.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (6 December 2006): Actually forget it. I'll apologize for the sake of keeping DC clean of my inability to let things go.
Sorry about that. I will try to behave next time something like this comes up.
[bows]
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (6 December 2006): Martini, I guess the bottom line is we see things differently...you see porn as being about sex and I see it as more about sexual politics....If you really are open to at least considering my side then perhaps you may be interested in the link below...and before you say Im not willing to consider you point, you see thats simply not true...its rammed down my throat and every otehrs personals daily by the media and the world we live in...anyway, enough arguements I agree (at least one thing we agree on lol) I can see you are a resonable person and I was incorrect in assuming you were looking at it from the 'typical sexist view' please accept my sincere apologies. Its an important issue and I guess thats why people get on here and other sites and talk about it a lot
http://www.users.bigpond.com/sarcasmo/sexpolitics/dia.fem.archives/dia.fem.sep.html
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (6 December 2006): Next time you want to debate on the topic of porn, at least if any of you want to attack me for whatever reason, it would be prudent to take it to the forums. Just start one there and we can talk more about it.
As for the whole topic of porn from one end of the galaxy to the next, I can be a very logical and analytical person. For you to win an argument against me, first, you have to show credibility in the personification of yourself. Second, you have to tell me and us why you think the way you do. Third, you can't just simply say "Most people in porn were sexually abused" and then proceed to tell me/us that it's wrong because the people who look at porn glorify the beauty of women."
The problem with your argument is not your opinion. Everyone has opinions. You have your take on the debate, fantastic, good on you. However, what you fail to do continously is say that someone else's opinion is wrong, but you don't give any viable arguments.
Eg: you can't say that the war in Iraq is wrong and back it up by saying it is wrong because there is killing involved. The morality of murder and to kill is too broad. So instead, you can say that there are alternatives to war, like political espionage and sabotage, like diplomatic approach, or assassination to preserve the lives of the many.
So in this argument on porn and beauty, it's not enough to say it's wrong and say that most women and men in porn have been sexually abused. First of all, you don't know whether "MOST" men and women have been sexually abused. However, you can say that "SOME" men and women have been sexually abused.
Second of all, if you want me to understand your argument, you have to stop calling me a sexist pig who do not deserve the love of a woman. Why? Because of the 1188 words and string of characters I've used, you have only looked at 'key' words. You didn't actually read and try to understand my point of view. Instead, you simply attacked what I was saying on the surface. Further, you have no idea who I am, and because you have again and again failed to see the objectivity of my arguments, on top of the fact that you continue to just simply point fingers at me and say I am this and that and make a WHOLE bunch of mistakes along the way.
Third, a good argument allows both parties to think about both sides and all other sides. You're not trying to prosecute me here. You're trying to make your point across, but to do that, you have to first understand where I am coming from.
You see, I understand where you are coming from. I can see why porn can have a negative effect on a relationship, but you can't simply say that porn is wrong. You have to give proof why it's wrong. Just like if you said it destroys relationships because it makes men or women lust after a fantasy is a plausible point. However, it doesn't hold water.
Think about it. Do you think I actually enjoy coming onto DC, hijacking a thread like this, and going on and on with someone like you, feeling frustrated and sh*t like that?
Look again, I tell you and all of you who take on Ms. Anti-Porn/Anti-Martini stance, I can see and comprehend where you're coming from. However you can't just say it's wrong because you think it's wrong. You have to tell us why my words aren't as right as your's, and counter argue it.
If you haven't realized it already, I am looking at this objectively. I have taken sentiment, emotion, history, connection, spirituality, and other things into consideration, then I went ahead and used the sole attire of physical appeal to argue with my points. What have you done? Nothing solid thus far.
Think about it for once.
[sighs] I don't think the Ms. Anti-Porn/Ms. Anti-Martini will actually read any of my comments and just simply attack me again on some...
It's like I am arguing with all 8 primary colours of a rainbow, but she comes back at me arguing about the colour yellow. Nevermind.
ULTIMATELY, whether you accept this or not, if you as the wife cannot and will not accept porn in your relationship, simply continue with your life not accepting it. No one is stopping you.
It's like religion - if you believe in it, great, keep it to yourself. No one wants to take it away from you, but please don't come knocking on my door with your booklets and scantily clad asian girls.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (6 December 2006): but also can see why it can be a positive thing in moderation
Porn is NEVER a positive thing...it relies on child sexual abuse to exist since most of the female porn stars were abused as kids...You simply have no conscience if you think porn is EVER acceptable
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (6 December 2006): Last thing, directed to Pikabu - sorry for hijacking your thread. There are some good points made from some aunts and uncles here. I can see why this is a negative thing, but also can see why it can be a positive thing in moderation. I think for clarity sakes, you should offer your point of view after reading most of our posts here. Then we can proceed with better 'judgment' of your woes.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (6 December 2006): Oh my gosh... Ms. Anon AKA Freak (sorry moderators, when a troll latches onto the car I am trying to drive away with, I just can't help but try to run it over...) - I recently entered an entry in my blog about you. I explained how you pick out certain words in my arguments to use as your basis for your 'argument'.
For example, if I said "I don't mind the prices at Ikea. Their computer tables are nice and sturdy. I might shop there before XMas comes around."
Then you would attack me by saying, "I don't believe you damn tree-killer! People shouldn't cut down trees! You should recycle more! People like you should all exile to some island and be damned all your life! DAMN YOU!"
And then I would look at your 'argument' and wonder where in my comments did I say I would like to cut down trees, and that I don't recycle, and that somehow because of your super disgusting narrow perspective of me, you damn me as some evil disgusting person.
Wow, you mind boggle me, on top of disgust me Ms. Anon Freak Troll Retard, Stalker, Mom-That-Don't-Deserve-Children- -In-Case-They-Say-Something-Mom-Doesn't-Like-To-Hear. HOLY CRAP!
WOW! MIND BOGGLING. [laughs] You should see one of the comments I made in my entry, I said:
---
So that’s just one instance of this ‘debate’ we’re having. I mean, wow, she blatantly ignores the things I have said and attacks me on specific words I use. It’s like you’re telling me about the war in Iraq and how you totally do not support it, but you can understand that certain things must be done to try to weed out the ‘evils’ in humanity.
Then I come back at you and attack you by saying, “So you think that the war in Iraq is justified?! That is sick! You’re so sick! How could anything justify war?! People like you should just go to hell and die! DIE I SAY! DIE DAMN YOU! JUST DIE!”
---
Thank you Ms. Anon. Thank you for showing me how narrow minded people can be in this world. AND I thought my dad was narrow minded and stubborn. WOW!
WOW! WOW! [flabbergasted] Just simply wow.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 December 2006): as usual Martini and his pro porn boys club pipe in...
Porn is crap...more and more women are realizing they dont need to put up with it...If he's not satisfied with you move on to someone who is...What sad pimply martini with his "im not attractive attitude fails to realise is that women DONT HAVE to accept what they can get like guys like him...Women are far more marketable and clearly coming to realize how 'old school and pathetic view like his are...WHAT A SEXIST PIG....If one aspect of the realtionship is not enough for him (as Martini says ) why bother...a lack of sexual satisfaction on either side is a recipe for disaster...Why not find a man who is totally satisfied with the lovin you give him..Martini clearly doesnt understand that women WANT to be the object of raw lust AS WELL as all those other things he mentions......
If he things we want fragmented man who have a seperate sexual life in porn he is VERY VERY wrong and does not understand women at all
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (5 December 2006): Oh sorry, forgot to finish the paragraph...
If I have friends that give me enjoyment in fly fishing together, or play rugby, or race my GT2 Carrera at the race track with my friends - the idea is the same thing. I do not expect my wife to fill in on all those interests. In fact, all of my ex's were not in the same industry as I am. I am a creative designer and one of them was a realestate agent, the other is a pharmacist tech, the other is a nurse. One loved rollerblading around the seawall, I didn'tknow how rollerblade. I went mountain biking on some pretty dangerous trails, would I expect my wife to fill in that interest as well? Heck, I wouldn't want her to. Too dangerous.
You can argue that sex is an intimate thing, but what about literature, education, and spirituality? I don't mind my gf/wife to be in faith with a religion, it's not my thing. Spirituality can be very intimate, more so than sex. Literature, speaking of our mental thought processes, our goals, our desires, our needs, etc are more intimate than sex itself. I do not expect my wife/gf to fill those interests.
You know?
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (5 December 2006): To Anon below, for myself, if my wife looked at naked men and masturbated to them, I might feel uneasy, but I would understand if it is easier and less tiring for her than having sex with me. That is of course, dependent on how much I adore and love her. Then again, say my wife uses that porn to help our own sex life, it might be fine. Cuz then I would think of an alternative to try to make our sex life better, thus trying to achieve a mutually beneficial enjoyment in love making without the usage of porn.
For example, for all of my past relationships, I knew physically, I wasn't very attractive. Some might like my boyish complexion, but overall, I'm not very physically appealing. So I cannot bring myself to take pictures of myself in lewd acts for my wife to masturbate to. Thus, I can understand why she wants to have an external sexual stimuli to get her going. I am sure it will make me feel sore and sad, but like I said, sex is one aspect in a relationship. If you think about the other aspects such as sports and interests, can my wife fit all those other aspects as well? If I have friends that give me enjoyment in fly fishing together, or play rugby, or race my GT2 Carrera at the race track with my friends - the idea is the same thing.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (5 December 2006): Why are you the only one being forced to change in this scenario? Why is it never the man, who steps back and says, "Perhaps I have a problem here...."?
He has a wonderful, loving wife, who he enjoys sexually for the most part and yet he cannot rid himself of his horrible addiction. If it is affecting you, and how you feel about yourself, then it needs to go and he should respect and love you enough to recognize this.
I think you'd both benefit from some marital counseling on this subject. It's not going to go away on its own. P.S. Wonder if he'd feel threatened if you started looking a naked pictures of other men, especially those with better endowments than his?....Food for thought.
...............................
A
male
reader, moomoomoo +, writes (5 December 2006):
 i'm sorry to say this, i'll get negative ratings, but women are way too sensitive to the porn issue. listen to martini, it is just one of the things that annoy me.. they don't understand that we as men function differently
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 December 2006):
If he is a wonderful man, let him have a small fantasy life and leave this issue alone.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (5 December 2006): It's not that you are NOT enough. It's because that one aspect of the relationship is not enough for him. A married relationship isn't all about sex of course, as you know. Sex is but one aspect of it. So long as he doesn't compromise your happiness and your satisfaction and welfare with porn, then I think you can make an effort to try to work out this porn issue with him. The thing is, he is more passionate in sex after watching porn right?
I am sure the lady from the other thread would say, "Don't believe that disgusting pig! When he's having sex with you, he's thinking about all those dirty disgusting women!"
[chuckles] I beg to differ. I remember back then when I masturbating to porn, then have a night of sex with my girlfriend, in the whole entire session, I did not once think about those women in porn. In fact, I even gave myself that test and try to think about the women in porn while making love to my girlfriend. Guess what? It turned me off. It was only when my girlfriend asked me, "What's wrong? You're not as hard any more" that I looked at her face again, and thought about how I could pleasure her that turned me back on.
Like I always say in my porn threads, if porn is used in moderation to boost the sexual passions of a couple, then it is a good thing. It is an object, the representation of raw sexual desire. Our women, meaning our girlfriends and wives aren't the object of raw sexual lust, but they incorporate so many other aspects of a relationship that makes us as men, want to give pleasure to our ladies. 8]
Good luck hun. 8]
...............................
A
female
reader, Nikita  +, writes (5 December 2006):
 Dear Pikabu,
I can easily relate to your dilemma and so, I'm sure can a lot of other women. Let me reassure you that because your husband looks at porn it doesn't mean that he loves you any less. To him, its just sexual images. You are the woman he loves. Men can easily separate love and sex and they are turned on easily by images of scantily clad women whereas women do not turn to porn as much for their sexual gratification. Banning it won't work because he'll feel the need to hide it from you if he does 'slip', and that'll make you feel worse because it'll be secret. You say it doesn't interfere with your sex life which is good because that means he's not so addicted to it that he cuts you out of his life when it comes to sex. My partner looks at porn and like you, at first, I didn't really like it. That stemmed from my own insecurities because it didn't affect our realtionship at all so I chose to ignore it and now I sometimes watch it with him. We're quite open about it now and I think its better to be like that than him hiding magazines and dvds from me. I can understand how hard it is for you if you really have an aversion to it but I would suggest that you continue with your steps to overcome your feelings because if it does improve your sex life that can only be good! It doesn't mean he didn't want you before. It just means itll be spiced up that's all. My partner doesn't care if I wear lingerie either so you're not alone there. take comfort from the fact that you have a good relationship and that you are good enough otherwise he wouldn't be with you. Try and relax okay and reach a compromise. The more open you are, the better it will turn out I promise you. I've been there! Hope this helps you, Nikita.
...............................
A
female
reader, zed +, writes (5 December 2006):
I have been in the same situation as you and felt he was comparing me to the porn. I am a catholic too and I think that we particularly havae an aversion to it due to having a strict upbringing. Why don't you try and either enjoy it together by watching steamy films or ask him how he would feel if you looked at perhaps gay porn...ask he if he would feel compared or jealous. This is a tough one...I used to spend literally hours deleting porn from his computer. The most important thing here is communicating and explain why you loathe it so much and ask whether there is anything that he would like you to do to enhance your love life...perhaps by buying toys etc
...............................
|
