A
male
age
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*yonsdown
writes:My gf works in a low paid job.I also work, and earn more than her, but not a fortune.Which is why I pay for all our holidays, going out to restaurants, and most of her new clothes (which she spends quite a lot on). On the other side, I live in her house, and don't pay toward household bills. I have a property I have to pay city tax and electric/ gas bills for.She thinks I should rent my house out, but I don't want to as I've had experience of tenants who refused to pay their rent and it was very expensive to evict them (plus I probably see it as a refuge in case we argue and she asks me to leave).Her 23 year old son doesn't work.He's an aspiring artist.I believe he could work, even if it was part time, as I' m far from convinced his painting is a full time thing.As a result of his not working his mother pays for certain things like fuel for his car. The result of that is she's in debt to the bank, which obviously upsets her.Should I help pay back her bank debt?I don't think I should, because if I did it'd essentially be partly paying off the money she's given her son for his socialising. Plus ,until he works that debt would soon increase again, which would be a vicious circle.I want to make clear she hasn't actually asked for the money.
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female
reader, Tisha-1  +, writes (3 October 2016):
 The good news is that she owns her own home: http://www.dearcupid.org/question/how-should-we-divide-up-living-costs-in.html It’s rather surprising that you haven’t worked this out after this many years. In another post you report you have been together for 6 years and this was April of 2015, so I can now assume this is the same girlfriend.I think I’d go find an independent financial advisor, and work out a mutually agreeable budget that works for you and for her.The hopeful thing for me is that her house is paid for, and they have enough money to pay for a car. Perhaps all that needs doing is a some common-sense budgeting advice from an impartial third-party. That would benefit her and you as well.I did some more research for you and found this: https://www.moneysupermarket.com/home-insurance/unoccupied/ which does mention the problem with leaving a property vacant: "You might already have home insurance in place, but your existing policy is unlikely to be adequate if your home is left unoccupied for more than two months at a time. Most insurers will not cover a property if it is left unoccupied for more than 60 consecutive days, and some will only cover an unoccupied property for up to 30 consecutive days. “So, if you were to make a claim on your standard insurance but your property had been left empty longer than the limit stated on your standard policy, it would most likely not pay out, or not pay out the full amount of your claim."
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (3 October 2016):
One thing to add, how much extra are you paying for the insurance on an empty property? In personal experience, it wasn’t possible for us to afford to leave a vacant property because the insurance company wouldn’t insure it.
Unless you are misrepresenting to your insurance company? As in, lying to them about where you actually live?
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (3 October 2016):
Hi there! You wrote about this girlfriend two years ago, I think: http://www.dearcupid.org/question/who-do-i-leave-my-money-to.html In that post, you were wondering how much money to leave to your girlfriend and if you could cut off your bone-idle son.
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"Thing is, my only son (from a divorce) is 27 and has basically never worked. He occasionally works as a DJ a few times a year. He lives with his mother, who's 64 and still works.
I've lost count of how many times I've told him to get a job of any kind, but he's just bone idle.
Now, I have a lovely girlfriend of 5 years standing. Obviously I want to leave her a lot of money. But how much?
Do I leave it all to her (which I want to do).Or do I leave some or all to my son, who I don't think deserves it.
What proportion would you divide? I have no-one else other than those 2 people to leave it to.”
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You started off that question by mentioning "I'm quite comfortable financially, with a property paid for and money in the bank.I’m only 55, but you never know...”
You’re now about 57 and presumably have many years of enjoying life ahead of you.
Maybe you just need to move back into your own place, and thus avoid paying anything which might financially benefit her bone-idle son; obviously you’ve cut off your bone-idle son as you didn’t mention him at all.
Holidays, clothes and meals out are “nice to haves.” Rent or mortgages are “must haves” (unless you’ve paid off the property as you mentioned) but utilities and groceries are “ESSENTIALS.”
Moving back to your place would do a few things: one, it would free up space for her to take in an actual paying tenant. The tenant would then be able to pay her/his share of the utilities and lessen the burden on your girlfriend. The tenant would be responsible for his/her own food so your girlfriend would only have to pay for herself.
Perhaps being back in your own place would also allow you time to reflect on why you keep finding yourself in the company of bone-idle men? And how it is your own son is one of them?
If this is a new girlfriend and you are living with her after less than two years of trying to decide how much of your money you wanted to leave to your last girlfriend then I put it to you that you are making some rash life decisions of your own and perhaps the one who needs a wake up call is you.
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A
female
reader, Abella +, writes (3 October 2016):
 You will be the one in debt if you keep on being so generous.
You do not need to woo her with restaurant meals and fancy clothing.
Start as you mean to go on. If she is on a low income and you earn more does not mean that you are there to lift her lifestyle. Your contribution to her expenses should go as far as a proportion of the rent and a proportion of utilities and a proportion of household expenses.
Great meals (as good as restaurants) can be made by cooking at home using inexpensive basic ingredients and some additional herbs and spices.
Her son most definitely needs to get his head out of the clouds and get a job. He is not Rembrandt yet.
Even struggling artists who later made it big still had to make some money to live until they made it big. At his age he is an adult man and needs to recognize that he has a responsibility to contribute too.
Split three ways will definitely reduce the burden on her.
A budget will allow her to work out your contribution and the contribution her son needs to make. She will need to share some details of the budget she lives by. (income and fixed and discretionary expenditure.)
My guess is that there is no budget and that some of her bank debt is more than just due to supporting her son.
There is a thing called Sexually Acquired Debt (SAD) and it is often applied to women who are left to pay debts a partner left behind.
In your case do not acquire nor take responsibility for her debts. You say she has not directly asked for help. That is how it may look to you. But the fact that you know the debts exist means that she has told you about the debt and how she says the debt was acquired. That is classic hinting and hope you will pick up the hint. Don't do so.
Do visit your home regularly to see that all is in order and I agree that keeping your home is important. It is your security for the future.
Even if she and her son lived in your home then they too would need to contribute to expenses. Otherwise it is you who would sink into debt.
If you were to sell your home then the expectations of your partner would start to eat into that capital too.
Put some of your income aside and out of reach (you don't need to explain this) as a prudent option for your future.
Talk to her about you paying a contribution towards what you use in the household.
But to do that the clothes buying and the fancy restaurants will need to stop.
And instead simpler outings will need to suffice.
Surely she wants to live within her means as a good example to her son?
Her son also needs to step up and get a regular job and also contribute part of that to household expenses. Just like most folks would do as ''normal.''
If that ruffles feathers (the son's and hers) then a re-think of this relationship may be required.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (3 October 2016): I agree with the other aunts and I'd just like to add that my BIL is an artist. He has had exhibitions of his work and he makes some money from it but he still has to work (he teaches art) as do all of his artist friends. Very few people can make a living out of it.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (3 October 2016): No, don't pay her bank debt. If you live in her house using utilities and eating food, contribute.
Paying debt to enable people to make poor financial decisions is a waste of your money. Don't encourage her to become financially dependent on you. Coax her to put her son to work.
If she prefers to struggle to see her son become an artist, that's her choice. Only pay for what you take from her. If you take her out, naturally you'd spring for the date. It's your invitation.
Until you're a married couple, her debt is her debt; and your debt is yours. The consequences of her poor decisions should not be your responsibility to clean-up after. Otherwise; you are offering her the option to take advantage of you, only because it's convenient. Eventually you'll become suspicious, and that will create tension. Wondering if she cares for you, or is only using you. Especially when she allows her adult son to live rent-free.
That fact you mention it in a post, is an indication your already resent the fact.
Before you decide to marry anyone; make sure their finances are in order. Many marriages end due to financial issues; and such things are avoidable if you know they're in trouble from the beginning, as you do.
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A
female
reader, Youcannotbeserious +, writes (3 October 2016):
 What Like I see it says! Spot on what I was thinking while reading your post. If your partner is stressed out from being in debt, while restaurant meals and new clothes are a nice distraction, they do not help solve her problem and you SHOULD be paying a fair share of the household bills if you are living there. At the moment she is supporting two adult children (although one is more generous with is money than the other).For what it's worth, I totally get where you are coming from re keeping your house there as a safety net. I have done exactly the same as previous experience has taught me that you never know what is round the corner (and also that all tenants are lovely when they come to view your property, all make the right noises but, once they have an agreement, they can turn into right royal pains in the proverbial). If you can afford to have it sitting empty, then that is your choice.I think you and your girlfriend should sit down and work out exactly where all her money is going. Split all household bills fairly. After all, you live there too. Stop buying her expensive clothes and treating her to expensive restaurant meals. Instead put the money where it will do good. You can still treat her occasionally, just not as a way of "paying your way", which is what I think you see it as at the moment but which is of absolutely no practical help to her whatsoever.What she chooses to do with her money once you give it to her is her choice. If she chooses to carry on supporting her son indefinitely, then you need to have another conversation.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (3 October 2016):
 I don't think you should pay for this. I think IF she mentions the debt, you could suggest that maybe giving her son a timeline for when he NEEDS t o find a job if the "art" stuff doesn't take off - because SHE will not be able to continue to pay for it all.
IT IS her choice to pay for him. It's her choice to "enable" him to live off her while he does his thing.
Overall, her son, her money, HER debt. her choice.
I think it's fine that she wants to help him find HIS niche - great. But there HAS to be a REALISTIC timeline for when it's kind of OBVIOUS that making a living as an artist is viable or not.
So let's say she gives him a year. After a year, he needs to find a job to take care of HIS bills, now she can help him still if she wants too, but at some point, she NEEDS to cut the financial apron strings. But again,
Her son, her money, HER debt. her choice.
Unless you plan to marry her, her financial situation is HER choice. You are already paying for everything as it stands.
So in short, I don't think you should enable her.. to enable her son.
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A
female
reader, like I see it +, writes (3 October 2016):
 OK, here is my take on the situation.
I assume you have suggested to her that her son could get a part-time job to help cover his own expenses, but if not, have that conversation. Hopefully she agrees with you - I would imagine she might, because the current financial situation is clearly causing her stress. Accept that she's probably not going to cut off her own son financially and that it is not necessarily realistic that she do so. Gone are the days when the economy allowed kids to be out of the house at 18 with a full-time career job and living wage, at least here in the US. Try not to put her in the position of having to choose between a good relationship with you and a good relationship with her son, because that may just be a losing battle for you.
Next, it sounds like you are paying for your girlfriend to enjoy a more expensive lifestyle than she could ever afford on her own. This is very generous of you, but it's not practical for the situation you two are in. And she can't apply nice shoes, jewelry, or a new dress towards the half of the household bills (utilities, food, etc) that you enjoy the benefits of without directly contributing to.
You mention you have your own place. I don't imagine you are incurring large gas or electric bills on an unoccupied property. Certainly you are not paying to eat there. Property tax is a given, of course, but you COULD be letting a renter pay that for you and then some if you chose to lease the property. If you rent out the property through a licensed property management agency, they will handle the tenants for you - from advertising to finding tenants to lease paperwork to rent collection and eviction if need be - typically in exchange for some percentage of the rent.
Instead you are choosing to live rent free with your girlfriend while maintaining this other place empty as a "refuge" in the event of an argument. It is a perfectly valid choice but it is just that, your choice. Your girlfriend hasn't asked you to leave it vacant in case you two disagree, so I don't think that lets you off the hook for your share of the expenses you help incur in the household that you do actually live in. Unless your girlfriend is reselling the clothes and shoes to help pay bills, you are technically as responsible for her debt as her son is, because although you're providing her with luxuries they don't actually help her cover those bills.
Here's what I would consider a more equitable arrangement (and it shouldn't cost you any more than you already pay):
You and she each continue paying the property tax on your respective properties.
You're washing, eating, and using gas/electricity/television/Internet/etc. in hers, so you should be paying half of those expenses. (Or 1/3 of them if her son lives and eats with you two; I couldn't tell from your post.)
Continue to pay for restaurants and outings if you want to go out but know she can't afford to, but stop paying for the expensive clothes. They are wants, not necessities. This should offset the expense to you of paying into the household bills. If for some reason it does not you might also consider preparing a meal or two a week at home with some of the food you have helped her to purchase, as skipping restaurant meals is another great way to trim expenses.
Here is where you have the opportunity to learn a lot about your girlfriend's priorities and financial habits. Either she will apply the money saved on household bills and groceries to her debt, or she will spend the money on fancy clothes and shoes because you aren't buying these for her any longer. If the former, she will slowly pay the debt off (and if you have the means to help, you can do so in good conscience because she's demonstrating financial responsibility). If the latter, you know financial solvency is somewhere below fashion on the list of priorities, and further mixing finances with her may not be such a good idea.
Hope this helps you. Good luck and best wishes!
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