A
female
age
30-35,
*o4chaotic
writes:Let me start out by saying I know this is a relationahip forum but this is one of the better sites that gives advice so please answer this question about a family member.This question is more for my mother to ask but the entire family is being affected. My father has terrible hygeine but if you ask him he is the cleanest person on the planet. My dad has several issues including hoarding that I suspect is due to his rough upbringing. Showering, cleaning up after himself and washing his hands are just a few. My mother seems to now come in to her own and is trying to live a better life that includes coming to term with her hoarding and asking my father about his hygeine. I don't know how she didn't see this before but apparently she is noticing his lack of care for hygeine. For as long as I remember my dad will go months without showering and he did this for years occasionally washing up in the bathroom sink. Only for times when he is visiting family he will shower and clean himself. This was his routine for years until he was diagnosed with a rare skin disorder causing him to be more attentive to his habits. He talks about his disease and uses it as an excuse why he cant clean hus hoard up pick up though he works and goes out all the time. He was showering regularly for weeks until black stuff started showing up on the shower walls. My mom kept telling him about this and how bothersome it was to clean after he got out but he got angry and told her it wasn't that bad. But he wasn't the one scrubbing! My dad was a mechanic before he was diagnosed so grease on his skin wasn't unusual but this stuff was still showing up a year later! So instead of cleaning the shower he stopped showering all together. I call it lazy considering he hasnt done any house work for over a year leaving it to my mom my sister and I so the least he could do was clean the shower.I suspect he has this a skin disease from years of not bathing properly. He also takes offense to my mom telling him his towel and wash cloths smell up the entire bathroom. Ofcourse he doesn't wash them and he throws a big hissy fit but does nothing. Who has to clean the towels? Me.. I wash my dads stinky towels because he won't and I'd like not to be hit with BO when I go to the bathroom. My mom has issues sleeping because he sweats in his sleep the entire room smells like BO. She asked him to shower but ofcourse he gets pissed and doesn't do it. The hall smells when he walks down it after he's slept. If you don't want to shower fine but think about others.On top of that he uses the bathroom and doesn't flush the toilet. Urine smells reek and of course he doesn't clean the bowl. Although he's been urinating in the toilet and not flushing since I was a small child (im 23 now) my mom asked him to start flushing and he started taking offense then listed what he wanted like flushing took something from him. We all do it!And yes he doesn't wash his hands. Just learned this. He gets angry when my mom asks him did he wash when he comes in from the market or some other public place and starts cooking. Once he took out several leakibg trash bags during a clean up at a relatives with some pretty nasty stuff in it. Once he was home he went straight for a bag of snacks stuck his hand right in. He lies about washing hands and showering. When he does I witnessed him rinsing his hand by sticking one hand then the other under cold water for about three seconds then wiping his hands off on a dish towel we all use! I never noticed it but he has some bad habits and is the first one to call someone else he knows dirty! He thinks he is so clean and in order it is ridiculous. On top of that he is a hoarder so yeah every excuse under the sun why he can't pick up trash and put it in the trashcan. My sister and I clean the house now that we are old enough and I think he believes he is doing that because he is delusional. My question is does anyone else know someone boy or girl who takes showers and black stuff comes off their skin and also how can my mom get my father to take showers or wear deodorant? Reply to this Question
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 February 2013): Hi, I have lived with my husband 20 yrsI'm saving up(almost there,another 11 months) to get out ...first I've always enjoyed showering and shampooing my hair daily...I always wear fragrance and my teeth are white ...suffice it to say I practice good hygiene...I.ve always had a bidet and use it freshen up daily. I just like to feel clean.now my husband is extremely the opposite.I know this is hard to believe but this man bathes 4 times a YEAR....THAT'S RIGHT...he showers every quarter and sleeps in his underwear for weeks. When his underwear is filthy I just throw it away..I gag just taking his laundry basket out....He changes his clothes every 2 wks....add to this he never brushes his teeth, nor wears deodorant...when he goes to work he puts on a body spray to hide any hint of anything...gotta tell you, I've tried everything...he is just a pig...I think I had sex with him 18 yrs ago...I've always maintained a separate social life because he's so grossed out...he is 67 now...I'm 12 yrs younger...your dad will never change...trust me...my sons are in their 20s and are equally grossed out... My sons are just like me...very good hygiene ( this is not their birth father ). My sons say he is just lazy...I think he has mental problems....who in the world can be this way... He does not sleep with me...I'm sorry you have this deal with your dad...by the way he is a hoarder too...we have two houses so all his crap is packed up in the big old house...this house is clean and clutter free....can't wait to get out of this situation....11 months and counting
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female
reader, so4chaotic +, writes (26 January 2013):
so4chaotic is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks to everyone who have offered their advice. I should make it known that the living conditions in the house are liveable because I and my sister do clean. When I bring this up to my father but he says this is not the case. The house was a mess because of some illness or random reason other than hoarding. He won't admit he's a hoarder so hoarding counseling won't work.He won't agree to a maid service I'm sure and hoarders have a issues with people throwing stuff away. The messy rooms of the house (my parents' room, garage and basement) are too filthy for any maid to just clean up. Yes I have come to realize I will have to move out and am working on getting a job but I was trying to find a solution in the mean time considering I will be living here for a while in the mean time my room and the main rooms I clean so it can be livable. I know I can't nag my dad in to being more considerate or clean he said he raised himself being one of 13 kids living on his own since 16 so he probably thinks his habits are normal.His hoarding has lately become a small part of the problem since he is suffering from paranoid personality disorder he is suspicious of everyone especially neighbors and my mom's family that I am close to. He likes to isolate himself and us which I suspect is a symptom of hoarding and PPD. He wants to control the house probably because his father did and he was a mean man. He gets crabby if someone comes over he didn't invite or we change something in the house he didn't. Now that I am able to clean I want to enjoy my home and invite peoole over. He acts like we are just supposed to sit around and not let anyone in unless it is a blummer or his company.On top of that he names his demands for what he wants around the house (cleaning out the lint traps in dryer every 30 minutes and using one cap of laundry detergent or closing doors shutting off lights) you ask him to do something he is sick and no one has compassion for how hard he works etc. Yeah my mom says she wants to leave but I doubt she will.I am determined to move out asap.
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reader, CMMP +, writes (25 January 2013):
Man, you might as well be homeless, since it would be more or less the same thing as living there.
Get a crappy job for the time being and get out of there. Find a cheap place to rent for 6 months until you can find a better job.
Your mom isn't too old to move on. She may not be perfect but you need to help her see that she doesn't have to spend the rest of her life like this.
You need to call that one tv show about hoarders so they can knock some sense into your dad and give you some help cleaning.
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female
reader, YouWish +, writes (25 January 2013):
 Yeah, if he's been like this for years and it's getting progressively worse, then there's nothing you can do in terms of trying to motivate him, or getting into arguments with him, or pressuring your mom to lean on him. It is the situation, and it's not going to change without professional medical or psychological intervention.
SVC mentioned calling CPS. She's on the right track, but it might be better to consider Adult Protective Services too if his lifestyle is indeed dangerous to him and others living in the house with him. However, both avenues are lengthy given that government services aren't known for their expediency.
Do you have friends who are local? Is it possible to ask to stay at their house with them and/or their parents while you're looking for a job? Be honest with yourself now -- you mentioned barely cleaning your own room as well. Do you also have hoarding tendencies or have let yourself succumb to a bit of slovenliness out of despair?
One way to possibly make the peace at your home if your parents have some money is to hire a maid service. People think that that is so expensive when in truth, it's pretty reasonable. A couple of years back, when I was recovering from major surgery and my husband was working long hours and his grandmother was also ill and needing a lot of care, for four months, we hired a maid service to come in every week to do a deep cleaning. It was so wonderful we considered keeping them on permanently! But, things got back to normal, so we resumed our own house hygiene. I've always been a semi-neat freak because my mom was and still IS the biggest neat freak I've ever known. When I was growing up, she would actually "white-glove" our work after chores! Well, the white glove was a white cloth, but you get the picture.
You may want to consider pitching the idea to your father as a way to keep the peace, because that mold is a hazard to everyone's health, and it would be a benefit to him to feel the lessening of what he might consider nagging, and definitely a benefit to the noses of the rest of the family.
Not flushing the toilet? OMG. That's something you have to remind a little kid to do. They have self-flushing toilets available out there.
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female
reader, so4chaotic +, writes (25 January 2013):
so4chaotic is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYes I am aware he is dealing with some issues and depression has crossed my mind however I am still confused by the way he talks to us. From what I learned about depression I think his irate and abusive attitude has more to do with paranoid personality disorder. He reads in to everythng and if you ask him something he'll read it as you are being sneaky or mean.
He will wash up in the sink but will not wear deodorant. Only when he is visiting simeone he wants to impress he will do something about it. So it isn't like he doesn't know or can't. We don't nag him only when it gets unbareable and it has.
As for the black stuff on shower it only appears when he showers and hasn't since so unless he has mold coming out his pores this is not the case.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 January 2013): Unfortunarely, your dad has been affected by his unpleasant experieces, dissappointments that have resulted in major depression and poor thinking. He needs to see a doctor, social worker to get him the help he dearly needs. Depression is an illness that robs you of the power of your own force of self-will or drive to live and present a vigorous presence.The black stuff on the walls is a toxic mould. You have to remove all the drywall and redo the bathroom from top to bottom. Make sure you get a fan in he new bathroom to keep humidity in check. Mold is very toxic.Your father, as helpless as he is, is aware of his responsibilities and what he needs to do. Nagging him will only make him irritable and upset and lonesome. You might try offering your help in helping him widdle down his stuff and the tasks he feels he needs to do to maintain a nice home. Somehow you need to help your dad get his mojo back. Encouragement is a good start. Criticism only results in standoffishness.
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reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (24 January 2013):
 Well all you can do is dedicate your every thought and effort to getting a job so you can get the heck out of there. I'm sure everybody including your mom will be the better for it. Your unhappiness and disapproval is obviously very stressful for her.
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female
reader, so4chaotic +, writes (24 January 2013):
so4chaotic is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYes I am aware it is a mental illness. I know I can't change him but wish he could be more considerate. I have done research on it, read articles and also have a degree in sociology and my sister a degree in psychology, plus anyone can tell by his reluctance it is a mental issue but I find washing hands and flushing toilets a small sacrifice when living with other people. Considering so many people can't do for themselves and he talks a big game about being better than people it should prompt him to be more hygienic. As I have said I really do want to move out but can't land a job to save money. I appreciate what my dad does financially but I wish he'd realize being a parent or family member involves more than money.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (24 January 2013):
 you really can't change him. Hoarding is a mental illness. His lack of hygiene is long term and may be a part of his mental illness as well.
If you are so repulsed by it at your age you can move out and refuse to go to their home.
If there are younger minor children in the home I would call CPS and have them investigate. Maybe having her children taken away will help mom find the strength she needs to make changes such as getting dad the help he needs.
It's sad when someone is so far gone they can't see this.
I knew a man who was a hoarder...they really can't part with their stuff. It's not to be contrary. It's an illness. There are treatments for it. The hygiene issues, well that may be part of a phobia or it may be learned behavior.
I agree if you live at home, I would make all attempts to move out. Mom has lived with dad a long time and this is her choice. You have a choice too and it's not one that makes you responsible for mom, dad or their marriage.
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female
reader, so4chaotic +, writes (24 January 2013):
so4chaotic is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHi and thanks for the replies. I'm living at home because I recently graduated from college and unemployed still looking for jobs. I want to move trust me but can't without any money. My mom won't divorce him because of this, she is just now noticing these things and working through her own bad habits. My parents are in their mid and late 50s so where are they going to go? I tell her to be more forceful with the issues because his habits were making my life hell and when I asked him to clean the basement because it was making the house smell offensive and he went on this flip trip saying I didn't work or clean and don't know what he does. At the time I was finishing up my senior year so I was stressed barely cleaning my room let alone other household stuff. I was also hurt because I didnt go around asking him what he did when I was home all summer basically being his personal maid.So we don't ask him anything unless we want to be verbally assaulted we go through my mom who acted like she was scared to ask him to flush the toilet and clean up after himself. I learned that my parents dont communicate whoever throughs the biggest hissy fit wins the other just gives up. Her being persistent after I told her I felt trapped because I hate living here and he won't see to reason about what would make me more comfortable at home she said I was making her feel bad so she has been on him. He is sour about it but is now flushing and it is great to go in the bathroom without seeing or smelling urine that has been roominating for hours.I don't know how she stands his BO. The wash cloth thing isn't bad anymore because instead of doing something someone asks him to do he'll take it to the basement to wash up or skip showers like he's done since we asked him to clean the stuff off the walls. My mom has asked him to bathe more but he gets offended and does nothing. He works crazy long hours I think it is because he doesn't want to be in their room which is full of crap. Also so he can have the excuse of working and being so tired he isnt going to do any housework.My mom says he is sexist I'm starting to believe it is true because he gets really upset about housework but will work long hours and go grocery shopping. If you can stay out at work or the grocery store why can't you clean the bathroom?It has a lot to do with avoidance from hoarding and his upbringing. He said he raised himself and I believe it because of his habits. My mom has stopped asking him to shower because he gets angry and she tries to ignore it. My mom has sleep apnea so she just got a mask and has been using that to ignore the smell as outrageous as that sounds! I told her I thought that was too much but not my life I don't share a room with him.Neither of my parents like to clean I grew up in a hoarding household now that I am able to clean the main rooms look presentable but my parents' room the basement garage and storage area is packed. I'm pretty sure after my sister and I move out it will go back to the way it was when I was little with trash mail and junk all over. My dad says he isn't like those people on tv. But he really is minus the dead cats and rats and working bathroom. He thinks you have to have holes in the floor and rodents to be a hoarder when their are different stages. My mom knows she hoards but showers regularly and washes hands. She told me in the past she has contemplated divorce but couldn't afford it plus she loves my dad and she isnt perfect either. I don't want a marriage like theirs. I'd say what really erks me the most is his denial. He doesn't realize we don't live in trash because my sister and I clean even though his room has trash covering the floors. He also is quick to call other people dirty and is really snooty about people he meets who are a little off when he is the same way or atleast similar. I think he has paranoid personality disorder because everyone we know even family mwmbers are thiefs and he even accused me of moving things around on purpose to mess With him my parents knew each other for 3 months before having my sister and I then got married when we were one. They didn't know each other well so I believe that is where it went wrong. My mom has told me if she didn't have us they wouldn't be married I know that. Because of them I know I want to get to know someone well than live in this hell. To be fair other than his hygeine and need to control everything they get along fairly well. I just am amazed how my mom can talk to him and act like everything is great when these issues are ao apparent. As long as we aren't relling him to clean or wash up they are happy. But that is insane.
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reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (24 January 2013):
Why are you still living at home? I would have moved out by your age. This is your mother's problem, be supportive when she complains but it's her situation. Nobody can make your father change his behavior but your father and he doesn't seem to think he has any hygiene issues. You need to change your address to another one and make sure that it isn't downwind.
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male
reader, CMMP +, writes (24 January 2013):
I don't know about the disease but your mom really needs to separate from him. She probably doesn't want to but it may help him to realize he really needs to change.
Your question made me sick and I'm not even there! If you live outside of their home let her live with you for a few days to see how her "trial separation" goes.
I'm not saying divorce, but she really needs to say to him that she can't live like this any longer and to prove she's serious take off for a few days.
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