A
male
age
36-40,
*lo Jack
writes:Hi. I'm a bit of an awkward, weird guy, and I've been looking for love for quite some time (Ive only been in 1 LTR 4 years ago, and in the interim its only been sporadic hookups), except I always manage to f*ck it up somehow! Here's the latest, wondering if this is salvageable:Met this girl who was a newcomer at work; ever since I saw her my jaw dropped! We hit it off almost instantly and kept chatting late at night and joking with each other (not in real life though im too shy/awkward for that!). Eventually she told others during an after hours office party that she was in a 4 year LTR so I relented...before long however she almost went out of her way to tell me that she had broken up with her BF and that he was a cheating asshole...hooray I thought to myself...Things seemed all right to the point that she asked me out for a night in the town with her friends...after that i couldnt even talk to her without her asking me out; she even mentioned a couple of times that she wanted me to tag along with her during spring break.All this changed however after our first actual date...it wasnt terribly awkward or anything (she even made plans for us to meet up in the next day...unfortunately i had plans already) but i feel like i just played it way too cool...we didnt go where she wanted to, i didnt pay for her stuff and at the end i was too chickenshit to kiss her (even thought the signs were there)...After that things cooled off noticeably...she now barely speaks to me and whenever I IM her she takes a sh*tload of time responding and her responses are almost monosyllabic! Ive asked her out twice already and both times she's said she was gonna call but obvsly didnt! There was this one saturday night she apparently wanted to meet up with me for a movie but she messaged me like at 9 PM, i was already out with friends...told her the next day we should watch it and only got evasives again...So, anyone think this is salvageable? I actually like this girl and think shes potential GF material...hence my messing it all up...and I understand that she's either in a relationship or coming out of one and should be given time...but she was the one spurring me on!
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male
reader, Flo Jack +, writes (21 March 2013):
Flo Jack is verified as being by the original poster of the questionJesus christ WiseOwle, I don't know what spot of personal turmoil you're going through but you need to chill out and lay off the condescending bullsh*t. Contrary to your own misinformed belief, I don't have a problem attracting women; it's just, im a little bit socially maladjusted, so I don't have the “batting average” I should really have. Also, I didn't make the girl pay for my stuff; we just split the cost; my clumsiness lies in the fact that I couldve easily paid for the stuff but didnt offer to, and the whole not the place she wanted to bit.Also, Ive read some stuff on “succesful dating”, and it's all about manipulating women into bed using jedi mind tricks, or something like that. Successful? Perhaps, i dont know. Do I wanna become that? No. Even the terminology is disgusting and mechanistic. As much as I may harbor some slight resentment towards women, I'd never stoop too low so as to try become a part of the “PUA community”. Ive gotta say, it's that frame of mind which led me to the spot i am with this girl. I just want some social rudiments so i can secure the girls that naturally come to me, not become some soulless, plastic mass production dummy whose only concern is to make up for their underlying dorkiness by hypnotizing women into bed.As for the weird part...well, I mean, I OBVIOUSLY chose to be ostracized, I love it so much. Actually, i'm not that much of a weirdo; my coworkers seemingly love me (or at least don't hate me), for example, and i do get attention from girls, and not just ones with mental problems, as you seem to imply i do. As a matter of fact, that “weirdness” is a big part of what seems to attract these girls to me; i guess they appreciate my sense of humor and conversations that don't revolve about “that time me and my bros got wasted in Cabo and date-raped some sluts yo”.And yeah, i guess i do have some semblance of fondness for myself...but i dont see whats wrong with that. Sure there are some things i'd like to change about myself (mostly the whole social thing) but i don't have the level of self-loathing required to immolate my self and mold it in the shape of a billion previous assembly line “suave” douches.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (19 March 2013): Who said you have to be Mr. Congeniality? I said don't be weird and put a girl who likes you on the spot. Your claim you can't do better, is only a declaration you really don't intend to try.No one is "meant" to be a dork. Enough with the crap about shooting yourself. You make excuses because it's easier to get away with being written off as weird, than to prove otherwise. Thinking before opening your mouth and spouting verbal diarrhea, and learning how to be appealing to women isn't all that hard. You spent so much time developing that obnoxious dork personality, that you've come to like him. The problem is, women don't!If you find a woman who will put up with weirdness, doesn't mind being taken places she doesn't want to go (and paying for it)... sleep with your eyes open! Don't trust her around sharp or blunt objects. You're in your twenties, and you claim you're too old to change? You mean you don't want to change, but you still want women to like you. Well it isn't going to happen.When you get tired of being intimate with the palm of your hand (or face rejection even by females of other species), you'll decide to make an effort to develop some interpersonal skills. I recommended reading up on successful dating, and you only responded with more excuses, and surrendered to maintaining your old ways. Which have proven many times over, unsuccessful in dating.I highly recommend that you drop the awkward weird guy character to make yourself appealing to higher life forms. Don't bother being gay, they don't settle for rejects from the hetero-world! They will reconstruct you, and it will be a very very painful process to endure! Very painful indeed!Read some publications and books regarding confidence and building self-esteem. Take what you read seriously, and you'll find it's all in you. You just have to let it out.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 March 2013):
 Sounds like you've got some work to do, then. Is there some reason being aware of your proclivities to tank your chances isn't enough to keep you from doing them again?
Try counting to 5 or 10 before saying something you know will kill your chances. Find the space and patience that exists in between blurting out whatever you are saying and clamming up to the point of inertia. I think maybe trying studying yoga and meditation would be helpful to you there.
The misogyny, where you blame all women for the behavior toward you of one, well… who was it that suggested that people treat you the way you allow them to? That the one to be blamed might actually be… you?
You are so mad at yourself for that that you prevent yourself from putting yourself in that position again. You tank you. Nothing to do with the girl.
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A
male
reader, Flo Jack +, writes (18 March 2013):
Flo Jack is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for your feedback WiseOwlE and Tisha-1. Believe you me WiseOwlE, I've tried working on the whole interpersonal thing, to no avail...I mean I'm kinda old (well Im in my mid 20s) and it looks more and more like i'm just not meant to be mr congeniality or whatever...I can't ever speak my mind because i always think grouchy/contrarian/inappropriate things so I rather just shut up and end up looking like a milquetoast...and the fact is, I wouldn't really care about my dorkiness, if it weren't for the fact that that's what's keeping me from getting with the girls i actually like and wanna have serious stuff with, and who actually like me back, except i always mess it up in ways similar to this! I sometimes wanna shoot myself just out of sheer embarassment for this....@Tisha-1: i thought i was over the whole widespread misogynist resentment thing from that experience, going into this...i mean, i did have this winter fling thingy in then...apparently i still haven't, though.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 March 2013):
So you defended yourself against being dumped by your date by acting like a boor so you basically dumped her?
Why are you allowing your defense mechanisms to tank your chances with a girl you really like? Were you so badly scarred by the last experience? If so, you need more time before you date again.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (18 March 2013): You mentioned your awkwardness and the final outcome of your dating experience with this girl. Once a woman stops calling or messaging you, you slow down and leave her alone. She is sending the message that she is cooling off the relationship, and so many guys can't take a hint when this happens. I know you like her; but it gives her the creeps when you persistently text or leave messages, and she's not responding. It's a mild form of stalking her.
If she offered you a kiss, and you were too chickenshit to kiss her...dude, you totally blew it! You can't do a replay.
I know it isn't totally polite to leave a person hanging after they've left messages. However; if she doesn't immediately respond, she's either busy; or just not interested enough to get back to you. You both hit it off at the beginning. Then things started to shift. You admit your own mishandling of the first date. You weren't a gentleman. You didn't take her where she wanted to go or pay for anything. You placed her in the awkward position of giving you the brush off. You're a dork, to put it mildly.
Only friendship is salvageable. She doesn't need or deserve a boyfriend that goes on a date, doesn't pay for anything; or even offer to split the cost. Especially after NOT taking her someplace she wanted to go! You only look desperate trying to fix it, AFTER THE FACT. You blew the first date. Then screwed up on the second invitation, BECAUSE YOU HAD PLANS ALREADY?
UNBELIEVABLE!!!
If she isn't responding to your messages, it's because she's embarrassed and confused. If she is still interested, it is up to her at this point to contact you and let you know. She didn't do anything wrong. You made all the mistakes. So the ball is now in her court.
It's up to her to forgive you. You can send her some beautiful flowers and a lovely note apologizing for being so dumb. Don't expect her to come crawling back. YOU OWE HER AN APOLOGY. She owes you nothing.
First impressions are lasting impressions, and she realized you're only good for a phone chat or texting now and then.
You're now in the "friend-zone." Don't push it, or she will flat out tell you to get lost.
I don't mean to be rough on you. You have to hone your interpersonal skills, and realize when dealing with someone you like, you have to be receptive and exude confidence. Change your perception of yourself. Being weird and awkward are not exactly attractive traits in a guy.I don't mean be fake or change for others. I mean don't do things you know will weird people out. Read up on successful dating.
If you text or call, and someone doesn't call you right back, you can ask if they were busy when you called. That gives them a chance to explain why they took so long to respond. If you ask a girl out, ask her where she would like to go, take her there, and PAY FOR IT. Keep your calendar open following a first date, with the anticipation that you may be lucky enough for a second one.
If a girl offers you a kiss, man-up and KISS HER! Don't make her look like an idiot for giving you the chance.
We all make mistakes in the dating process. You just have to be more confident. Avoid doing or saying weird things, and date women who are compatible with your personality. You'll learn that on the first real date!
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A
male
reader, Flo Jack +, writes (18 March 2013):
Flo Jack is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHa. I guess I deserve that. Yeah I know I it looked like i haven't the slightest idea of basic dating etiquette (when I actually do have)...and thats kind of a large hurdle to cross...but in my defense, I gotta say I had a really bad dating experience not so long ago (where I pampered and indulged my date only to be strung along for a long time) so I'm kinda predisposed for it...
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 March 2013):
Would you date you?
I mean, would you continue to date a girl who refused to do what you wanted, who expected you to pay for everything and who then refused a kiss?
Ummmm, no, right?
So you basically revealed all your weirdness to her and she decided it wasn't worth her time.
The only way I see this being salvageable is to come clean, tell her that her beauty knocked the sense out of you and that you want a chance to make it up to her. You will have to take 'no' for an answer, though.
If you can't manage some polite dating behavior, maybe you need to go to dating boot camp, if there is such a thing. Hire a dating coach or a matchmaker to go over the basics with you. Run some practice drills with a girl friend (not a romantic interest type of girl friend, a regular ordinary girl friend). Get coaching from your sister, aunt or mother or cousin or other female relative.
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