A
male
age
36-40,
*own2erph
writes:My girlfriend(who I live with) and I have been at odds everyday for the last week. My friend has a wedding coming this weekend, and their bachelor party on Friday night. So she has made an effort to fight with me everyday. But to cut to the chase majority of the hostility has been about the strippers that will be at the bachelor party. Let me make it clear, I've never had any desire to go to a strip club(more like avoided it), never been unfaithful and didn't feel the need to lie about such a thing.I tell her I have eyes for no other female, and she tells me that she trust me. I would be much happier if strippers weren't coming to the party at all, that way I'd keep her happy, but this isn't my event, and I feel some obligation to be there for one of my best friends as a groomsman.I've told her that it makes me uncomfortable to feel like I have to choose between her and my friends. She either doesn't seem to care or doesn't understand. To make matters worse she wishes to get biased input from her work friends, and others, instead of hearing whats being said on my end.A few days ago she tried to manipulate me and give me an ultimatum. The bachelor party or her. Now here is the thing, she has a wedding she is a part of coming this summer, and I don't think she is sure what she would do herself.I'm thinking it may be time to leave. She has her own past and I think knowing her own capabilities makes it a problem. I've had to accommodate her insecurities through the relationship.I'd feel cheated and angry if I were kept from going, just to make her feel better.Is there any real compromise to this situation?
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reader, anonymous, writes (26 April 2013): "Well, it's a bit different."
It's not different. Anon we don't get ravenous at the sight of strippers anymore than women do. Some men and women do of course but most don't.
Men and women aren't different in the way they react to a person of the opposite gender doing a sexual dance.
In fact women are far more bold when it comes to male strippers, trust me I have a lot of female friends and am considered as "one of the girls" enough to have been to some hen dos. If men touch a female stripper their guardian will knock the guy out, but male strippers get man handled, groped by ladies etc. Feel free to read up about the subject, male strippers get a pretty raw deal when it comes to being groped.
You know it's funny, women find it perfectly acceptable to grope and in effect sexually assault male strippers, yet it's us guys who are apparently too weak to see a female one without losing our shit, it's funny because women still see men as sexual deviants who can't control ourselves around a naked woman.
OP best of luck, this is not about stripping, this is not about you doing something morally wrong. She sees you like a lot of women see us men, as weak little boys that can't be trusted to keep our dick in our pants, as weak minded pathetic fools who will fall in love with another woman if we see them naked.
Best of luck with that OP, I couldn't be with a woman who is so hypocritical and has no problem drooling over a topless Ryan Gosling but if you so much as look at another woman somehow you're a bastard.
She doesn't trust you OP, and she wants to control every sexual thought you have because she can't handle the idea that you may have them about others, because as that female anon displayed, we're "different" supposedly and less trustworthy.
I'm just glad to have a fiancée who enjoys the art of stripping, both to do it for me and have it done on herself because it's just a dance like any other. Every dance from the waltz to morris dancing is intensely sexual as dance is a human form of courtship. All of it.
A
female
reader, HappyPlace  +, writes (26 April 2013):
 I think you are planning to leave her anyway by what you have said. And it's clear you do not communicate well as a couple. She's talking to friends because she cannot talk to you - that is normal so I'm not quite sure why others have berated this! Have you heard the expression "what goes on tour, stays on tour" - I used to hear this all the time when I worked in a male dominated industry. Sometimes the guys in relationships were the worst ones and being an "honorary" male, I was party to this information. Are most men to be trusted around scantily clad woman - probably not actually. There was also another question on this site where a guy did go to a strip club for a bachelor party and a lot of the guys shagged the strippers. I remember my Brother going to a stag party many, many years ago, in which the strippers selected guys from the audience and shagged them!!!! So, I don't blame her for having some insecurities about this scenario, particularly as the men will group together so that no information gets out as to what they did. And strippers - I mean come on. This is all a little antiquated, is it not. If you do go, she may well resent you and if you don't go, you may end up resenting her. TALK to each other. I understand you are stuck between a rock and a hard place in making a decision but a decision needs to be made in which you are both comfortable. Do you love her? If so, this can be worked on. For the record, I am recently married and my husband's stag do consisted of an indian meal with friends and family. Why do strippers have to be involved?????
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reader, anonymous, writes (26 April 2013): If she has talked to the bride to be and she's ok with it, shows that her survey of womens opinions doesn't stand up.She is making such a big deal of a few minutes of fun for the groom,a stripper who is doing her job then moving on to the next party,that you probably won't enjoy it anyway.The fact you have asked for an opinion too means your torn.Your loyalty to your friend, who is getting married, or your girlfriend who is having a hissy fit and wants her own way.In a normal balanced relationship it wouldn't be a huge deal, sure women may not like the idea of it, but they don't drag out the argument night after night and issue ultimatums. No trust, ultimatums = insecurity and control tendency.Stand your ground IF you want to go, then just go.Tell her you have made your choice and there is no more to be said,refuse to discuss it anymore.Then decide if this woman is really your future
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female
reader, PerhapsNot +, writes (26 April 2013):
 She's an insecure drama queen - dump her. I am almost willing to bet that the entire ultimatum is total BS. Sure, she will be enraged once you go to the bachelor party, and she may even break up with you....but I have a feeling that it would be SOOOOOO easy to win her back, or that she would forgive you shortly after. Because, let's face it: if she is insecure and has many hangups, she probably knows she is not hot commodity. How many men really want to sign up and deal with that mess on a day to day basis? That's right, not many.
In fact, I think you can do way better than her. There is nothing more annoying than insecure, needy, dramatic losers as romantic partners.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 April 2013): I agree with your girlfriend. I wouldn't not like my boyfriend watching another woman get naked and then having her grind her.. stuff on my man's stuff. Simply thinking about it makes me feel sick.As for you being comfortable with her seeing a make stripper get naked. Well, it's a bit different. You see, guys are very visual, they get aroused simply by looking, women don't. And honestly, getting a lap dance from a guy is uncomfortable for us and we don't get any pleasure from it. Male strippers are "eh" for us.I think you should go to the party and come back early, maybe calling her. I don't know.. find a way to compromise so that you can make both your friends and her happy.Unless you do want to break up with her, in that case, do it and go get a lap dance!All I'm saying is, put yourself on your girlfriend's shoes.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 April 2013): Do you love her? You'd rather lose her in order to go to a bachelor party with strippers? I'm not saying she's right or wrong, but a lot of girlfriends don't like their boyfriends being around strippers having way too much to drink & wondering if something might happen.
Could you compromise, maybe only go for a couple of hours & call her while you're there? If she didn't love you she wouldn't care what you did.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (25 April 2013):
 Ah, the dreaded stripper at the bachelor party. Look, there are very few women who like the idea that their beloved is going to watch, in person, another woman's naked tatas bouncing up and down, in close proximity and I am confident that virtually every woman facing this 'rite of passage' just shudders at the thought that he may come in contact with foreign vaginal secretions smeared on his zipper due to a lap dance. Frankly, it's just kind of gross, ya know? I mean, come on, who wants anybody else grinding on their love in that way?
So, I had a couple of thoughts for you. One, you could tell your girlfriend that you will pretend to get completely drunk and pretend to pass out right before the stripper starts. The problem with that is that you will have to be a good actor. You could wind up in the loo, pretending to throw up, then hug the toilet rim as though you were driving that lorry down the High Street at the peak of shopping hours.
Then when you are there, go ahead and act like the rest of the guys so you aren't singled out for hazing later on. I believe there is a bro-code for these events, right, so no one will tell her that you weren't passed out and instead enjoyed watching the poor woman earn her cash for the evening by prancing around naked and pretending to enjoy the raunchy humor you all share.
Another thought I had was that I will compose a note for her, a woman-to-woman analysis of the entire ritual.
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Dear freaked out lady,
So you are facing the dreaded issue of a stripper at the bachelor party. We have all been there, it's a male ritual, I can't call it a respected male ritual, but it is an entrenched and accepted male bonding experience, a rite of passage.
I have been there, in fact, I too was feeling very vulnerable and worried and could not stop thinking about this damned bachelor party. I knew that my fiancee would be subjected to the same ritual at some point, and I frankly dreaded how the whole idea was making me feel.
I mean, come on, who wants their guy to get an eyeful of boobies and the approbation of all his mates when she singles him out for special attention. It's like a nightmare. Your guy is out there, hanging with his drunken friends, some of whom do NOT have girlfriends or wives and home and miss their single buddies and would love nothing more than to add more wingmen for their NSA-one-night-stand-sex missions…. If you can stop a wedding and save one of your fellow men from the enslavement of marriage, well, you've done him a huge favor, right?
Okay, I'm exaggerating. Many guys just want a chance to go out and hang out and drink and watch pretty naked women strut around. It's not very much fun to think about them doing that but you know what? It makes them happy to think they are getting away with something. It makes them feel manly, it makes them feel like they are the supreme lords of creation and all womanhood pines to get naked for them. (Well, sexy young pretty womanhood, not so sure they want to their grans getting down and dirty in the strip clubs)
So, when I was faced with this same shocking realization that my guy was just like the next guy, that he was going to go to this bachelor party and *gasp* look at young naked women (they went to some place in New York City) I had to come up with my own plan to keep myself sane.
No, I did not run off to watch young handsome studly men strip off their clothes (*yawn*). I corralled my girlfriends and the most handsome male friends who were not part of the bachelor party gang, and we played poker all night. Not strip poker, though that was rather hinted at… (*blushes*). I wound up having a great time, I had the support of all my girlfriends and the company of some handsome guys and you know what?
We all survived.
He survived the wilds of the NYC strip club.
I survived, though the hangover was a bit intense.
I realized that he was the same guy I was in love with, and that by trusting him and not nagging the sh*t out of him, he appreciated me even more. It wasn't comfortable for me at the time, not at all, but all these years later, I'm glad I got my head on straight for the entire thing and we are fine. It's a non-issue. It's not a problem, from that time forward.
His bachelor party was held in another city, he was with his friends, I trusted him, I didn't quiz, question, bug, bother, annoy, nag or harass him.
I have to ask you a question. Do you trust this man? Do you trust him with your life, your heart, your well-being? Because what he wrote here tells me that you do not.
If you do not, this relationship will not survive. The bachelor party will not be the cause of the breakup. The cause is your basic lack of trust, the bachelor party is just the catalyst to the natural death of the relationship because of the incompatibility.
Does he trust you to be faithful and keep your integrity and watch his back? No? Then you have a problem. Yes? Great. Give him the benefit of the doubt, in that case.
Cut your guy a break. He'll still be your guy, even if he sees a couple of naked women. Really.
All the best,
Tisha
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What I'm getting from your post is that she is stuck in a negative thought pattern and is taking it out on you. You won't be able to fix this, she will have to do that.
But you can try to see it from her perspective as well, as long as her perspective isn't so wackadoodle it's impossible.
Bachelor parties bring up some pretty deep-seated feelings of fear and unease in women. I know, they shouldn't, but they do. So see if you can't try one or both of my approaches, that is, if you WANT to save the relationship.
If you are halfway out the door anyway, that's a whole different scenario.
If you are ready to break up, let it happen, but don't make it be about the bachelor party. Make it about the true issue, which is lack of trust.
Okay?
Hope this helps in some way.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (25 April 2013):
 It's time to leave and I'll agree with Cerberus on this reason THE PERSON WHO ISSUES THE ULTIMATUM ALWAYS loses.
When I started getting serious with my now husband I had a then very close friend say "my husband will never tolerate him so you are going to have to choose us or him" it was a no brainer for me. HIM. not because he was my partner, but because he would never ask me to pick HIM over friends he does not like. He had already said he was fine with my being friends with them but that he would not be. Once they said US or him, it was easy. HIM.
The thing is I bet she backs down
I do like the compromise solution of going and wishing the groom well and letting him know AHEAD of time that you can't stay once the girls arrive and start taking off their clothes.
Personally I don't care if my guy wants to go to a strip club or get a lap dance or any of that.... but since she does, you have to accept that it's a limitation of your relationship with her.
And I think that this ultimatum is just an example of other ongoing issues with this young lady based on what you have said and the fact that you are willing to consider leaving... it seems to me that there are other issues that are not getting resolved and she's rather demanding and if you give in to her now, who knows where it ends...
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male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (25 April 2013):
 Go with the several Aunts and Uncles who have focused in on your G/F and her insecurities and what this incident tells you about HER.... and YOUR's and Her's relationship..
It starts like this ("oh, hunchy-bunchy, can't you understand and accomodate me, just this one time?....") and turns in to YOU behaving EXACTLY as she dictates... time and again in the future....
YOU can decide... Choices: You are you.... or, SHE tells you who "you" are....
I think the choice is clear...
Good luck...
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male
reader, down2erph +, writes (25 April 2013):
down2erph is verified as being by the original poster of the question*** Oh, yes I would be totally comfortable with her going to a bachelorette party with male strippers. I told her this, and that I trust she would act as I would. ----she thinks I have a problem because I'm that comfortable also, says I shouldn't trust that much
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male
reader, down2erph +, writes (25 April 2013):
down2erph is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI failed to mention a few things....1) I don't drink or do drugs, so I'm not going to surrender my judgement to any substances2) Yes, my gf has talked with the wife to be....the bride is more than comfortable with it, her exact words were "its his last night as a free man, and I want him to enjoy it...I trust him and know he doesn't want to do anything to ruin what we have" ----bride in reference to groom3) And just a comment about walking out of the party as suggested. I don't mind criticism, or jokes from my peers if I were to walk out on her behalf. But I feel SO strongly that I shouldn't have to leave, that it will fester for a while.We stayed up talking(arguing) about it until 1AM and I've made it clear that I don't care about strippers. I'm only trying to support my friend. But all she can say is "I don't see any reason for you to be there for that part."I've also made it clear I would feel cheated and angry but she just doesn't get it. Don't like this restricted feeling. Seems selfish to me.That's why I'm going at this point. I'd be really disappointed in myself later if I didn't. I'm standing on principle. PLEASE keep sending the input!!!! Much appreciated and refreshingThanks
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female
reader, oldbag +, writes (25 April 2013):
 Hi
Yes it's time for you to leave, her whole attitude is so out of proportion with the issue, so what if your on a stag-do and there's a stripper.
Really,if you have never cheated or given her any reason to mistrust you then she is the one with a problem,not you.
You really cannot be made to choose,it's madness and I don't think she would actually carry out her threat.
But if you go,as you should, you won't be allowed to forget it...SO you should end it and find a girl who doesn't do ultimatums.
Have a great night with your friends too.
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female
reader, YouWish +, writes (25 April 2013):
 Ahh geeze. I think you should leave her for more reasons than this.
One reason is this: "I've had to accommodate her insecurities through the relationship." That doesn't get any better, and indulging insecurities is only a slippery slope that gets worse.
I personally am no fan of strip clubs, but if my husband were part of a wedding party where the bachelor party involved strippers, I would trust him. My only request is that he not let a woman do to him what he would want another man to do to me. In other words, I think lap dances are beyond what I would tolerate. My husband would MAUL any man who spent an extended amount of time grinding up against me and touching me intimately, and I would never be disloyal to him as to put myself anywhere close to a situation like that.
But I'd also recognize that he is a good friend to the groom, so I'd trust him at a strip club. I wouldn't like if he went to them on a regular basis just to get off, but I wouldn't keep him from a bachelor party. I'd just be ready when he got home to screw his brains out. heh.
With your girlfriend, I think you need to tell her that you have two loyalties at play here, your loyalty to her, and your loyalty to your friend the groom. Tell her that you're going to be supportive of him and his marriage, and that while you're there, you'll be loyal to her by not doing anything you wouldn't want her to do outside of your presence. Tell her that you don't operate by ultimatums, and that you're going. If she acts on her ultimatum, you will be sad, but that's her choice.
I personally would be absolutely enraged by her dragging a bunch of other people into your fight. That is manipulative and controlling, and if she's arguing with you and telling you what other people's opinion is in your relationship, tell her that you're not tolerating that. I would break up with a guy like that in a heartbeat, because I won't ever be manipulated, bullied, or strong-armed in that way.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 April 2013): Personally If my boyfriend watched stippers in person(Porn I have no problem with as they're not in the same room), especially coupled with alcohol, as much as I love him and trust him, I wouldn't trust him drunk with naked women around. I wouldn't be able to look at him again, and my view of him would be entirely changed. Everything would be ruined.
You could always ask to compromise (like what was said previously. For example go but not to get drunk. or just go to hang out with your friends and leave when they see the strippers. Or if it is based entirely around a strip club, even though this isn't the same thing, you could maybe hang out with the future groom and some guy friends in town or the pub or something before the actual night, and not go to the party itself?
I think a couple of the previous posters comments are a little harsh, saying that they'd dump her straight away. She's probably not said that ultimatum lightly. Would you been happy for her to go to a party where there were going to be hot male strippers?
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (25 April 2013):
 Let me expand on what I said a bit, you're both being immature and stubborn. She is panicking and throwing out whatever she can to get you not to go (I doubt she would follow through, but she would be pissed) and you are being stubborn in your refusal to compromise.
Like I said, just go take a walk when the stripper comes. No big deal. Why not try sitting down and offering that as an option and see what she says? I think the knee jerk reaction to dump her immediately just because a fight has gone wrong is a little silly. You both have a role in this, now go be the grown up and just offer a compromise and move on. You are living together so it sounds like this relationship is pretty serious.
Is it really worth all this trouble to avoid just going for a walk or taking a long bathroom break or going into another room? If she was the one asking the question and not you I would tell her to ask you to do the same thing and be criticizing her for being immature as well.
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reader, CMMP +, writes (25 April 2013):
Ultimatums aside, if you want to leave her then do it.
If you want to stay with her but don't want her insecurities controlling the relationship then simply tell her that you've never once done anything to deserve this lack of trust, but if she wants to break up with you that's her choice, and it shows to you how little she thinks of your relationship.
The ultimatum giver is quick to say "you'd throw everything away just to go to a stupid bachelor party?" To which I'm always quick to respond "No, you're the one who wants to throw everything away."
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (25 April 2013):
 I would sit her down and talk. I would NOT accept that ultimatum. I DO understand that most women do NOT like the thought of their partner ogling a stripper or touch/be danced on by one. I GET that. Personally, I think the whole concept or idea of strippers is lame, but I digress. But it doesn't get me bent out of shape. I'm just not a fan.
This is the bachelor arty for one of YOUR good friends, because SHE doesn't like stripper or is insecure, that should mean that you CAN'T go. That's ridiculous.
Is the place you live in yours, or hers?
If it's yours and she won't budge, give her 30 days to move out. If it's hers, look for a new place to live asap.
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male
reader, Hennessy1989 +, writes (25 April 2013):
 She needs to grow up. Go to the party, if she wants to leave then let her, I'm guessin if you go she will threaten to leave, call her bluff or else your relationship will never change, she's a control freak
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female
reader, Brokenv  +, writes (25 April 2013):
You seem like a really nice guy. As a female I had a boyfriend go to the strip club and he told me about it after. He didn't have to. But I loved him and I knew he loved me. I trusted him to do the right things. i would have an issue if you were going once a week and the strippers knew your name. That to me is a problemIf you wanted a one night stand or to do something unfaithful with a female I know you don't have to go to a strip club. You could meet her on line, at work, out with your buddies or at the gym. Personally I wouldn't want that kind of threat in my relationship. That is unhealthy. I would be gone. When you are in a loving and caring relationship no one makes an idle threat. Good Luck!
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male
reader, SensitiveBloke +, writes (25 April 2013):
 From what you've said, your girlfriend is argumentative, has her own past, doesn't care how you feel, doesn't understand you, manipulates you, has many insucurities and is now issuing you ultimatums.
This sounds like the perfect opportunity for you to leave her. Take it!
If the whole party was in a strip club, then i'd say don't go, but if a stripper's gonna come in and do a quick turn, you don't have to be there cheering her on, do you? It sounds like your girlfriend is very insecure, and I believe this is the real problem here.
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male
reader, Serpico +, writes (25 April 2013):
The moment you receive an ultimatum you have to leave. Its truly only the tip of the iceberg.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 April 2013): You're right, it's time to leave OP. Me or be there for your friends? OP I have never once in my life chosen the person who has made the ultimatum, never and I never will. You've been more than clear with her you don't like the idea of strippers being there, they're not even going to notice you because you're going to be behind some guys while the future groom has his 3 minute dance. So she's basically going to dump you for a another guy getting a 3 minute dance while you go out and smoke a cigarette or go to the toilet while it happens. Now I would have tried to compromise, there would have been ways and like person12345 said you could have come to a deal about the whole strippers thing, but an "it's me or the party" ultimatum? ....k that and ....k her, I would pack her bags now if I were you because regardless of whether you decide to go or not, the ultimatum is the end. Emotional blackmail will just make you resent her and what next? You buy the wrong kind of coffee and she threatens to dump you if you don't go right back to the shop and exchange it? If you let her make this kind of demand then good luck in the future OP, ultimatum people are abusive nightmares. That always resort to emotional blackmail to selfishly have their own way. A compromise was more than possible, if my fiancée wasn't okay with it I'd promise to go outside for a fag while the dance was on and go back in when it was over and she'd trust me not to. I really don't see what option you have here, if you bow to this demand you're just going to feel like her ....h, you're friend will call you ……whipped and they'd be right. Not because of the stripper thing, lots of women hate that and it's fine, but ultimatums to get what you want? A full week of nagging before that? Pfft, bye bye love. It was fun.
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female
reader, Aunty BimBim  +, writes (25 April 2013):
 My advise would be for you both to sit down at your kitchen table, (neutral territory) and ask her if there is any way the two of you can work this out because if you have to cancel going you will feel cheated and angry.
See what she says. Personally I feel if a man is going to cheat and have random sex, or even perform random sex acts, with a stripper, or a girl he meets in a nightclub or pub, or even at the library he is going to be a cheater regardless. I doubt going to an event where there are strippers means a man will cheat.
I'd be pretty damned pissed if a man I was involved with stuck money in a strippers g string though, what a waste of hard earned cash. Keep your money in your pockets and your old fella in your pants.
I don't know what you can do in your situation, issuing ultimatums are a bad idea, usually the person giving it ends up missing out. Try communicating, if that doesn't work then you will need to decide which is more important, I'd possibly chose my friends over somebody who didn't trust me to act honorably and who tried to manipulate my behaviour.
good luck which ever way you chose to go!
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (25 April 2013):
What if you just go for the drinking/hanging out part and leave for the stripper part?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 April 2013): Seriously, It's time for this over-inflated tradition to simply die. They cause more trouble and problems, and I hear this kind of stuff all the time. And the ones usually pushing for the strippers are the ones who haven't grown up yet and/or don't have the understanding of letting that stuff go when you are in a committed relationship with someone.You are in a tough situation, and not knowing how the events of the evening will take place, it's hard to say if there could be a compromise.On one hand, is losing your girlfriend and what's you've built together really worth the issue with the strippers? Can you attend the party, hang with the guys, and exit stage left before the trouble starts (respectfully excusing yourself and going home)? Can you ask your girlfriend if she has any ideas on how you could go to this party, which you should because it's your friend, but can assure her that you can be trusted? Can she offer a compromise?On the other hand, is she willing to throw everything away over this party if you go? That's pretty serious...You can both dig your heals in the sand on opposite sides so you can be right.... that will not get either of you anywhere.I can bet it's not actually the strippers...it's what comes with it and how out of hand guys get once the alcohol starts flowing and one eggs the other on. Next thing you know, it's a lap dance, it's touching these skanks, it's someone going in the back and getting a hell of a lot more. Totally inappropriate behavior for men who are not single. She knows it, and you know it.Because you do not find the activity to be something at the top of your list, puts you in a much better place, then the guys who think it's perfectly fine to be pulling this crap when they are in a relationship or married....speaking of which...I am curious... how is the wife to be accepting of the bachelor party plan? Does your girlfriend and his fiance know each other? Could they have a chance to talk about it together? Perhaps the fiance could be the one to assure her.
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