A
male
age
30-35,
*lwayswondering
writes:Hey all, bit of a weird question,I'm a 23 year old male, who has had 1 girlfriend, and I am a virgin. Great introduction! But, I'm starting to realize that my view on dating is perhaps 50 years out of date. I think that two people should be friends first, then if they like each other, then date. The idea is that there isn't this pressure to put your best personality traits forwards, and minimize your bad habits, tendencies, or traits. My view is that you get to see the person in their natural setting (if that makes sense), and build more trust. However, being 23 and still a virgin that has not worked evidently. So I think I need to change my philosophy (sorry if that sounds really douchey). I also am unsure if you can meet people at bars and clubs that turn into a lasting relationship. Although I am sure it happens. But anyways, when it comes to "picking up", I'm a rank amateur at it. Nor do I particularly like that saying, but you get the point. So does this really work? Is the "goal" so to strike up a conversation with a girl, get a girl's phone number, then take her out on a real date, and go from there? Or do you do the whole one night stand thing and that leads to a relationship (somehow). How does this exactly work? Advice, tips? Thanks!
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Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, Staceily  +, writes (28 June 2014):
 Dating sites are what a ton of people do these days. Everyone I know has gone on one at one point or another. They don't all cost money. I met my ex husband on a paying site, and my current boyfriend on a free site. To each his own of course. I am just telling you it certainly isn't desperate, more like the modern version of dating.
A
male
reader, Mark1978  +, writes (27 June 2014):
 Nothing wrong with dating sites. People use them for allsorts of reasons not just desperation or being sad.
Many people don't have the time or money to go out meeting people or, like me, are in a age group/life stage where they don't have the big circle of friends they once had nor the inclination to go clubbing or out to rowdy bars anymore. Most of my friends are now settled and my few single chums are usually working or too busy to go out.
I have met previous partners through work but the people I work with now are twice my age. Hence internet dating. Some odd balls on the sites BUT I met my most recent GF online and she was terrific.
Mark
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A
male
reader, Alwayswondering +, writes (26 June 2014):
Alwayswondering is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI thought about dating sites. However, they seem... Lazy? desperate? I agree with your logic, and that you increase your chances. I don't know, something about them has me wary. Also, you often have to pay for them, doesn't appeal to me.
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A
female
reader, Staceily +, writes (26 June 2014):
Have you ever tried a dating site? They are very popular nowadays and you can "meet" many people who you know from the start are already single and looking. Aside from being easier, it opens up a lot more possibilities than hoping you meet a single girl looking for a relationship in a bar. Just an idea. And don't do one night stands and hope for a relationship from that... The friends route is wrong, don't do a 180 and hope immediate sex will lead to love because that way isn't right either.
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A
male
reader, Alwayswondering +, writes (26 June 2014):
Alwayswondering is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks everyone for the feedback!
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (25 June 2014): The guys who get the most girls are willing to endure pretty much endless rejections just for the occasional success. They go around getting rejected with a 10-1 or 20-1 ratio and it doesn't bother them a bit.
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A
male
reader, Mark1978 +, writes (25 June 2014):
Not sure where olderhanddirt is coming from with comments about a woman's weight and age. Anyway, step outside your comfort zone and you will flourish!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 June 2014): I can say another cliche to be yourself but that's true. Girls can detect Farely easily a game. Unless you perfected it. Mark is right: don't pretend to be their friend first. Most girls don't want it. Actually every woman wants to be an object of desire. Like French say " treat any woman like you are a little bit in love". I will tell you a story that just happened to me while I was abroad.i met this cute guy who invited me out. It was not really a date , at least it didn't look like it. Like all europian s he didn't let me pay , but nevertheless he acted very shy and just like a friend. We hang out for a whole 3 days, he even came to my hotel room, and....nothing happen. He took me to see the nightlife, he followed my wishes what music I want to listen, what food I want to eat, was extremely nice to me but never made a move. I didn't know what to think of it. I was abroad by myself, felt kind of lonely sometimes with not a single soul that I knew far away from home. I would be with him if he made a tiny move. He turned me on. But the way he acted I was not sure if he likes me this way. Yes, he looked at me, and I think couple times I caught him checking me out but other than that nothing. The Last night we even came to my hotel room where we layed on my bed to watch World Cup , we had quite a bit to drink, we layed so close, and still nothing. I fell asleep, and in a middle of the night he said he needs to go home. And that was it. Now he writes to me on FB and hopes to see me again when I am there in September. So don't put yourself in a friend zone
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A
male
reader, Alwayswondering +, writes (25 June 2014):
Alwayswondering is verified as being by the original poster of the questionInteresting perspective. I think I am going to as you say have to get outside of my comfort zone. Trial and error and go from there. Thanks!
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A
male
reader, olderthandirt  +, writes (25 June 2014):
 In world I've found there are 2 HUGE no-nos. 1. Never try to guess a woman's age or wieght. and 2.Never comment on a woman's body other than "you look great tonight!" In other words never say "wow have you lost wieght?" or "you have great legs"
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A
male
reader, Mark1978 +, writes (25 June 2014):
Another thing, dont make to much of your whole "inexperienced" thing. Some men make the mistake of sending it out left, right and centre in the hope a woman will appreciate this honesty, take pity on him and like him because he isn't some leering, cocky guy trying it on....it doesn't work!
Mark
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A
male
reader, Mark1978 +, writes (25 June 2014):
Hello,
You sound like me at your age. I was always quite different in approach to most other men, old fashioned maybe, as I was never a typical "lad" if that makes sense. I didn't like the whole idea of "picking up girls" or being "on the pull". I preferred something more, well, nice and less obvious. I didn't like the idea of, basically, being cocky and arrogant and trying it on. Guess what Alwasywondering....it didn't work for me either.
The problem with trying to be friends first is that you come across as being a FRIEND, you get friend-zoned, and its hard to then go from being a friend to being a boyfriend. I get what you mean about building trust and so forth, but you can spend an awful long time going round in circles. Yes chatting someone up can be false, as we obviously supress our negative traits and push forward our most flattering aspects of our personalities, but, to some extent, we do that with friends too.
"Is the "goal" so to strike up a conversation with a girl, get a girl's phone number, then take her out on a real date, and go from there?"
That's pretty much it. What I learned the hard way is that you don't have to be some Macho, in your face, arrogant guy being egged on by a load of leering mates, but you do need to have a bit of confidence and make it a little blunt that you are interested. You also have to flirt. Approaching a woman in a way that's feeble, uncertain and lacking confidence wont get you anywhere.
Looking back on my early attempts at chatting up girls, I came across as either gay or pathetic. It took a lot, and was a big step for me, to step out of my comfort zone and be a bit more, well, manly. You don't have to flex muscles, swill lager and blow kisses at your own reflection, but you don't want to be the opposite either.
Mark
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