A
female
age
51-59,
anonymous
writes:Hi there, I need advice please about my daughter's boyfriend.First of all, a bit of background info. re. my daughter. We now have no family at all - no aunts, uncles, grandfather's etc. No one. It has been this way for many years and, before that, my existing parents were abusive towards me. I am naturally very driven, a high achiever but my weakness has always been confidence and suffering from feeling very unloved. I married very young to an unemployed man who has never supported me nor my daughter financially or in any other way. I later divorced and was in a very long relationship with an abusive binge drinker who never bonded with my daughter - he never harmed her, but he did harm me and she saw how this drained me of my potential.After she went to university, she went through a not unusual phase of questioning us and I encouraged her to go to counselling. Through this she could see that I really do love her and, despite many huge difficulties, I have always been there for her and, apart from letting my ex partner into our lives, I have always prioritised her needs.She really struggled to adjust to university - she moved very far away as she didn't get into her first choice uni and had to accept second choice. Just as she was thinking of coming home, after finishing uni, she met a young man and she has been with him for nearly five years now.I have no doubt that he loves her. And I am not afraid of him ever hurting her. He is stable, works hard,earns good money and was bought a flat by his parents which they both live in rent free.However, what concerns me is that he seems to want everything to fit around him and this means that my daughter and I really suffer from not being closer geographically. He works anti-social hours - he is very good at his job - and she is fine with this. But he insists he cannot do this job in any part of the country and must stay where he is, close to his family and the 'territory' he has marked out for himself in his career field. I could get over this BUT he makes absolutely no effort with me at all. In five years I've met him three times, all quite briefly apart from once when I stayed at their flat.I have been very seriously ill and my daughter's visits to me are limited because she also works. We were so close before she left for uni. that we both find it hard being apart. But he seems to do everything to make it impossible for him to visit me with her. They have visited once, at a time when I was moving home and it was impossible for them to stay in my flat. I paid half the money for them to stay in a nearby hotel. He had a fantastic time, but has not been back since (two years later). My flat is very small and, without saying as much, I feel this is the reason he uses to say he won't visit.But worse than this is that although I barely have any communication with him, he doesn't answer my texts sometimes. I try really hard to develop even a minimum relationship with him because he makes no effort whatsoever. I recently texted him to ask for his help to find a restaurant in their city because I am visiting them soon and my daughter has a really special occasion to celebrate. It was difficult to find any good restaurant open on the day of this occasion (Monday). And I also don't know the area that well. He made one attempt to find one alternative restaurant and, when I looked it up, it was NOT open on Monday's - which was the whole point of me asking for his help to find one that would be open that day. When I found a couple more examples online and asked for his thoughts, he simply didn't answer me at all.My daughter knows I have had doubts about him right from the start. He simply doesn't initiate any activity or conversation with me. When I stayed with them I would get up in the morning and sit in their kitchen/living room and he would get up and not even say good morning to me for the first half an hour or so, even though I was sitting right there. I have tried gently taking the lead and prompting or giving him opportunities to do things that any nice young man would do to ingratiate themselves with their girlfriend's Mum, but he simply doesn't "see" the opportunities when they arise.I am now really p****d off because I still need to arrange a restaurant to take my daughter to and I don't know whether to just ignore him now and go ahead and book something and just tell them this is where we are going or what to do.My concern is that, in the longer term, my daughter will end up effectively sacrificing a closer relationship with me because he is doing nothing to help us to bond as a family - she has mentioned they want kids and will probably buy their own home next year.What should I do both in the immediate and longer term? I've tried talking to my daughter about my concerns in the past, but I don't want to upset her or pressure her for his shortcomings in regard to forming a relationship with me. The bottom line though is I think he is just being plain rude!
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused  +, writes (3 September 2015):
 my son is just 29 his new wife (married in may) is 27. I have met her 3 times. ONE of them at their wedding.
she wanted to move 800 miles away and my son happily followed her.
I never talk to her. I never have contact with her.
She loves my son and my son loves her and THEY ARE HAPPY. I miss my son but one of the things we have to give our children when we raise them is wings... letting them go is so hard isn't it?
A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (3 September 2015):
 Sheesh ! Sorry but, again aknowledging that your actions and words come from good intentions and from being naturally protective of your only child and anxious about her well being ,- not only I stay by my
" heavy handed ", but I am tempted to make that " ham fisted ".
Look, it's THAT simple :
( Btw,personally, I think the amount of contact you quote is perfectly adequate and reasonable , not " minimal "- considering that you live hours away and that all of you have jobs , careers, and hopefully a social life and individual interests , hobbies and pursuits. BUT, that's just me, so, obviously, never mind that ):
What is in fact objectively hard to debate , is that this guy is NOT desirous, for whatever reasons of his, to develop a closer , warmer , chummier relationship with you.
This is his RIGHT - respect it.
As long as he does not prevent you access to his house, or communication with your daughter, which he does not, and as long he is civil and formally correct when you are around , that's ALL he has got to do. The rest is an optional, not your due.
He does not HAVE to be " inclusive " or to make you a vice-mom; I agree that it's nice when this happens, but if, for whatever reason , it does not happen, then respect his wishes and back off. Big time.
You made ouvertures to him, and they went down like lead balloons ? Then stop making them ! it means he does not like them ! - it's not pushing and prodding and making a nuisance of yourself that you'll win his heart . I agree that at times he has been rude , in not responding your messages. I am sure there are other ways to handle this kind of situation, and he does not know how to resort to them. So , he resorts to " hints " too; he hints heavily that he is not particularly interested in what you want to discuss , or request from him.
I don't think it is very relevant why he acts like this . Maybe it's just an irrational dislike ( although,... if he ever suspected or got wind of how you talk about him, and how you row against him, and comment and criticize about things and aspects of his relationship that ONLY your daughter, if any ! , should comment and criticize ,then it's not that irrational .... ). Maybe he just has different family values and he does not " do " in laws the way you think he should.
Once again, "different" does not necessarily mean
" wrong ", and you are not ENTITLED to see a change .
If YOUR DAUGHTER has a problem with his values, or how he handles family relationships, that's another story. Your daughter is an intelligent , educated adult, and she can decide independently ,on her own, what she can and will accept , or what she can't and won't.
Another not relevant thing is your professional experience with people in his age bracket. I do not doubt it , but, in a work situation, you were REQUESTED by these youths, or by the persons or organizations representing them, to get involved in their lives. That's precisely what your daughter's bf does NOT request- your involvement , regardless of your sensitivity and expertise.
Said that , and since you are totally deaf to , and aggressively resentful in fact, of the only advice which makes sense to most responders, i.e. : let them be, and don't fret , you have got nothing to fret over ;... now that I think of it, and seeing as this is something that anyway DOES worry and trouble you - I wonder why you haven't considered the simplest, most direct solution. Ask him ! " I have noticed that you did not answer my messages re: this and that... is there anything wrong ? Was I inopportune in some way, or it was bad timing maybe ?.... " " You know, I have noticed that you did not sound very enthusiasric about organizing the dinner for X ( your daughter ), I was a bit surprised. Perhaps do you think it wasn't a good idea ? " " You only visited me twice in 5 years, I would LOVE to see you more often, any chance we can make it happen ? ".... or something to this effect.
After all, YOU are the one who's got the problem, and you are the one who is unhappy with the way things are , not him. So, one would think you would / could take the bull by the horns ; what's stopping you ?
P.S. : just for the record : " the son you never had " : Whhhaaat ?! to you, dear OP . This is just a way of saying , which I am quoting ,not inventing - a figure of speech; a popular rethoric artifice, if you wish. Some as, "bosom buddy " does not literally have to mean that you actually hold your friend physically close to your bosom !
Just in case. I don't want to risk being bashed by our good readers here for antifeminist feelings that I never entertained :) so : I am far from hinting that whomever does not have a male child would want one .
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (3 September 2015):
 He *is* good to her. And he *has* been respectful of you. I've seen guys on here who mistreated their girlfriend's parents, and this guy isn't one of them. He isn't barring your daughter from seeing you. He isn't calling you a psycho like some boyfriends have. He respects his girlfriend's relationship with you, and that is the breadth of his obligation.
I think you're confusing the duties of a boyfriend with the duties of a husband. They're not married, and he's not yet your son-in-law. You will sabotage yourself by looking upon him as a rival for your daughter's affections. And, don't encourage her to complain about him to you. How will that benefit ANYONE?? He's not beating her. He's not cheating on her. He's not wrecking her friendships with anyone else, including you. That *is* showing respect.
Many parents go through that insecure thing when their only child (or eldest) leaves the nest and then falls in love with another. Then it's about wrestling with the fact that you feel like he's taking your place as the most important person in her life rather than you. I went through it with my husband's mom before I married him. She tried to get the entire extended family to hate me. She would ride my boyfriend on how "disrespectful" I was, even though we had hardly spoken, and I made it a point to complement her every time I saw his parents, and engage them in getting to know them. But I wasn't responsible for her insecurities and issues with empty nest, and finally, I sat with them and hit those issues head on, and we talked for hours. She was trying her best to break us up because she thought that I was "looking down" on her and because she was the most important woman in her son's life until I came along. None of that was my fault, and now she loves me and I love her. I didn't have to "ingratiate" myself to her. It took her getting over her internal insecurites. Synonyms for "ingratiate" mean brown-nose, grovel, kowtow, insinuate, seek favor deliberately, charm and flatter.
Why wouldn't he start at the good side of the spectrum? Why did you have to start WITH doubts, only to expect HIM to ingratiate with you?? I've always told my son that all that matters to me from any partner he chooses is that she is kindhearted and good to him. You should start out with a favorable outlook on him because he's good to her. If you love your daughter, that's all that matters. Whether he is staying somewhere rent free doesn't matter. When I met my husband, we were both living with parents...he was rent-free, and I paid my parents rent from the moment I turned 18 until I started college and moved out.
I don't consider your crazy. However, your view on the guy is myopic, and tainted by your own prejudices. That's a common thing, so I'm not being hard on you because I get it. I wasn't hard on my husband's mom either, though I was assertive and got all that prejudice and insecurity, which likes to hide in shadows and soil relationships, out into the open. I didn't hold a grudge or anything after it was settled, and even after everyhing, it still had bumps in the road, but we talked them out rather than make assumptions like you're doing with him.
Don't go seeking out the bad dirt on the guy. Don't draw her into commiserating on how she hates it away from town.
What if she married him?? All of the bad blood and stuff travels into that marriage between you two. For your daughter's sake, and especially your future grandchildren's sake, you don't want that at all. Don't let anything corrode your relationship with your daughter, and believe me, saying bad things about a guy she loves will corrode your relationship with her. It's one thing if he was hitting her or cheating or he was a criminal or was stealing money from her. But he's doing none of those things.
Give it time. If you miss her, go visit! Get a hotel room if you're worried about staying at their place! Seriously! Life's too short to fixate on what this guy does or does not do to ingratiate himself to you! He loves your daughter. That should count truckloads in his respect for you and yours for him. And who knows what the future may bring?? Stay optimistic! I love my mother-in-law almost as much as I love my own mom, and the feeling is mutual (she just said that to me less than a month ago!). Have patience, and keep your default opinion of him favorable.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (2 September 2015): This is my final post on this matter and I am responding again because I find many of the responses almost crazy.The very first thing I said to by daughter’s BF after he suggested what he knew was her ‘fantasy’ restaurant, was that if he wanted to save that restaurant for a special occasion for just the two of them I would completely understand.He is no more ‘busy’ than either myself or my daughter. He works four days a week in a job given to him by a contact who was kind enough to train him up and he pretty much works to his own hours during that time. He has huge flexibility and whilst his ‘territory’ of contacts is mainly in their city he does travel quite a lot and has contacts not just in the UK but abroad. He is away a lot and sometimes for unto four weeks at a time. My daughter becomes quite isolated in that time and yes, I do worry about what will happen if they have kids together and she is left alone a lot. The special occasion is my daughter’s graduation from her Master’s programme. I offered to pay most of her fees for her programme because after graduating she was miserable and stuck in a job that she hated. I could barely afford to do this but I did, and that’s after years of helping her through a BA. She works full time and studied for 2 years part time for this and I know she loves the subject and it’s brought her great happiness. When she started this study she bought a cheap little desk that she could use to study. She made this lovely little study area and was so pleased to have a desk lamp and her books and enough space for her laptop. Her partner reacted very immaturely to this. He kept deliberately sitting in ‘her’ chair and messing up her books and this small space. She discussed this with me of her own volition and she thought it was because he felt threatened by the values they represent. He did not go to university and is not interested in creative or intellectual thinking. I am not saying he doesn’t love her but he has no way of appreciating the work she’s done - he simply doesn’t share those values, which is fine, but I think he errs on disrespecting this part of her life. The first thing my daughter did when she found out the date of her graduation was to text me to ask if I would come to it. So I texted her boyfriend asking if he knew of a restaurant she’d like, where we could all celebrate her achievement. She has worked so hard I wanted her to feel proud and I know it would mean so much to HER to think that he and I had arranged an evening in secret and together.I am now just reading through the responses from readers. Frankly, to call me “heavy-handed” is inappropriate - I definitely am not and my daughter would be the very first to agree I do not interfere or impose in any way. It’s also rather hypocritical of you. I say this because some of you have quite literally accused me of things without any basis for your accusations whatsoever and you have judged me by assuming that I have behaved in ways I haven’t. To give you an idea and, again, reading through the responses, I’ve been accused of being at least the following: selfish, overly dramatic, overly-critical, heavy-handed, wanting him to bend over backwards to please me, inviting myself into their home, not giving him the benefit of the doubt, refusing to accept his different values, accusing him of being a ‘cad’, wanting an inappropriately close relationship with him, being overly egotistical, not being able to take his “hints”, being narrow minded, representing ‘pain’ (to my daughter) - she will actually laugh if I tell her that one - focusing far too much on developing my own life and (in the same post) trying to now use my daughter to fill up an empty life (quite how the two go together beats me WiseOwlE), being a bad guest, wanting him to be the son I never had (WHAAAAAT???), driving my daughter away geographically, creating a ‘me or him’ situation, blaming everyone else (for what, I’m not sure) and that I am irresponsible. That’s about 23 major - and I have to say absolutely baseless - criticisms of my character and my sensitivity (or alleged lack of) as a mother and towards others. All because I am a bit confused about why he often doesn’t respond to my (minimal) texts and has ‘stalled’ in organising this really special night for my daughter.To repeat, I’ve met the guy three times. In five years. I’ve only once visited their flat upon THEIR invitation, not mine. My daughter actually wants me to visit more, not less. I’m looking at my phone right now and see that he and I have texted a total of 46 texts between us in 5 years - roughly about 4 texts each per year on average - usually to briefly discuss my daughter’s Xmas present list or stuff concerning her. Four texts per year, one visit to their home, one visit to the city I live in and an early visit to their city and you are accusing me of being ‘heavy-handed’ in my approach? Have you all gone mad? I really feel some of you are projecting memories of your own mothers OR simply haven’t bothered to read my post and have projected onto me some very negative idea of what you imagine has taken place but in reality has not.I am not expecting the moon as you seem to imply. If anything, I am overly careful about not wanting to impose or offend anyone and always try to gently include people wherever I can - this is actually now part of my job and the reason I got my job was my selflessness and sensitivity to others comes very naturally to me. I work with young people around their age, and his behaviour still puzzles me. My kindness is also a major reason why I have been exploited in the past - I’ve been far too giving and know I have to change.There is no way my job is transferrable - I worked incredibly hard to get this job and jobs like mine are like gold dust. I cannot afford a larger flat just yet and yes, I have discussed moving nearer to where they are if I can commute to work - but my daughter has said she is not absolutely sure she will stay there, that they may still move nearer to me.My concern was and is that, if I am only going to see them minimally and he is absolutely not proactive about making an even remotely closer relation - and I mean a relation in which there is simply enough comfort for all involved for it not to be awkward, rather than a full on “you must adore me” as some of you seem to think I want - and if they are going to have kids, then I am honestly stumped about what to do to make things better. As I say, this is after years of working to meet the needs of young people around their age. And I remain stumped because most of the ‘advice’ given on this site has actually just been totally unfounded criticism of me. My daughter admits she is the one in the relationship who has to lead everything - for the first year or so of their relationship she didn’t even know if he thought of her as his girlfriend and she had to ask him. then it took about four years before he would agree to go on a holiday with her. He is like this with most things. She gets tired of having to ‘lead’ everything and I can see why. I know my daughter gets upset because she sees his lack of effort with me and finds it unfair, especially because his mother is literally in their flat, with her own key, whenever she likes and without warning. It drove my daughter nuts until she finally put her foot down and said it had to stop - but it took years for him to understand what the problem was and his own mother still doesn’t get it.Yes, my daughter had a somewhat dysfunctional childhood. But I did my best to ensure she got the best possible childhood given what I had to work with. I’ve done my very best to repair as much of the damage done by my own family as I can and done as much as one person can do. She went without other family members’ love, not mine. And she got a hell of a lot that other kids never get - a lot of sensitivity, consideration, prioritisation and freedom as well as material goods - at a cost to my health in the end. Nevertheless and understandably I feel she has grown up craving extra love, especially from a male figure. There’s nothing I can do about that. I can’t be several people, I can’t be a man. I’m just me. I fear she feels he is offering her unconditional love, when in fact and in his own way, he is ensuring he has almost total control over her emotions. She is vulnerable as well as being a very strong young woman and he himself is used to having intense attention from his mother figure when growing up and needs someone to keep supplying a similar level of attention to him. Yes of course it ‘works’ in a way, but when very basic common courtesies aren’t in place, am I really so wrong to be concerned? Several of you seem to think so, but I actually think YOU, not I, have been heavy-handed here
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (2 September 2015):
I read your update AFTER posting - where it says that you CAN find a restaurant yourself but asking your SIL 's coperation was ,in your intentions, simply a nice , inclusive gesture.
I have no doubt about your best intentions, but, you see ?... what for you is inclusive for him may be just pushy .
I mean, some people ( not everybody, granted . That's for sure, different strokes for different people !) would feel that the fact of inviting him and paying his way is already nice and inclusive enough. Wanting a busy guy to spend time on something that was YOUR project and YOUR idea could be seen as, well... a little bit more than inclusive, - more like fussy and annoying
I know what you are going to say ( because in other words you said it already :) : but it is my daughter's birthday !! A big night and a big deal !! If he really loved my daughter, he SHOULD have been delirious ,ecstatic for being included in the olanning, he should have volunteered with that ! In fact, he should have come up with the idea himself and planned a really special night out for my daughter !
... That's another thing that my mom would say :) And mind you, I love the old lady , she is great under so many aspects ,as a person and as a parent- as I am sure you are too.... but she always knows what people SHOULD feel or think . And she is taken aback / incensed if they feel otherwise.
Now, of course I don't know what's in the head of this guy, and neither you do, but, just for argument's sake, can't we just say that he MIGHT have other ways and other ideas about celebrating your daughter's birthday ? and that these ideas aren't necessarily wrong or bad ?...
Like,... maybe he went along with the inclusive dinner thing, out of courtesy ( or out of what courtesy he could muster :) but he is secretly disappointed that he can't just celebrate it romantically, as a couple, he and your daughter alone, and no, this is not him wanting to isolate her and keep her to himself under lock and key, as you fear;this is a young, in love guy, who very possibly would prefer a romantic, me-amd-you celebration than an inclusive me and you and your mom. It would not be strange , you know ?,... they are a relatively new couple, they are young , they have no kids, they are quite into each other as you portray them.... well, do you want him to be DELIRIOUS about dining out with his gf's mom ? Of course you are going to be there, and you are kind enough to invite them out, so I am sure they BOTH appreciate ,.... but that's YOUR idea of a proper celebration, I'd bet not his.
Or else, for all you know, he was / is going to make a big deal about your daughter's birthday- but not necessarily by organizing a dinner out. For all you know, he might have planned to surprise her with the wildest,hottest all -night sex of their life :). Or, to make it more romantic , maybe he is going to write a poem, or a song for her , or something special. How would you know , and why do you have to make it pass off as if he does not care about your daughter just because he is not fussing about a dinner ?!
Or maybe, he's just a type who is not big on birthdays and celebrations and official dates, and thinks they do not require special oomph- but capable of showing his love and committment to his partner in thousands other ways.
Of course I am just inventing, I don't know the guy.
My point is simply : this guy is not superinvolved in arranging a birthday dinner, the way you 'd expect - and ,... this means he is a cad ?! This means that he does not care about your daughter , that does not value her ?...
How do you know, did she ( the daughter ) say so ? Did she complaon ?. ...
I think that if she has chosen to be with him, and stay with him, and live with him, and soon buy property with him and make kids with him.... this means she loves him and she is OK with how he is,what he does and the life they have together. With or without birthday dinner.
You are obviously well meaning, generous, peotective and warm hearted, but, pardon me.... more than a tad heavy handed . This is not being well received by your SIL, ... and eventually could compromise your relationship with your daughter too ( Only, if that happened... you'd blame it on HIM and you'd fail to see what part YOU had in it ).
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (2 September 2015):
You remind me of my mother. Lovely lady, but - she has a firm set of expectations and rules and regulations about how the world SHOULD go , and about what people SHOULD do and say in any given occasion, and how everybody SHOULD act or react towards her ; and when they do not conform to her expectations, she immediately freaks out, takes it very personally, as some act of lese majesty, and puts the hapless " offender " on her black list.
She is totally unwilling and unable to put herself in the other person's shoes, or to accept that there may be other ways to see and feel about things, than her own- and that these ways might be different, but not necessarily wrong or evil. ( Talk about empathy ! )
I'll try to explain with an example, and please everybody forgive me if it's a bit long.
My mother waged eternal war against my sister's aunt-by-marriage, who was " contemptous " of my mother 's invitations. Of course, this is not exactly what happened. The story went like this.
A summer , my mother was visiting my sister and her husband in Switzerland. She was staying one week, after which my sister and husband were leaving for somewhere else, and my mother was supposed to go home. But my BIL's relative kindly invited my mother to stay at hers one more week, since the weather was great , the hosting lady was off work, and my mother had no pressing need to go back at once. Now, the visit went well- my mother was dined, wined, shown around, fussed about- no complaints about that. BUT, later on of course my mother wanted to reciprocate the invitation, at last for a weekend, and show that she is a gracious host too. The invitation was politely declined, the lady said: thanks but no thanks . You are welcome to come back any time, but, as for me, it would be quite too complicated, I hardly go anywhere. I have 3 cats that need being cared for, and a workaholic boyfriend whom I can spend time with only on Sundays, and my disabled brother in a nursing home whom I visit every Saturday morning .
My mother was pissed off, she disposed of these reasons as " lies " and bullshit.
Her reasoning was , when there's a will there's a way. A neighbour can feed the cats, and she can do without the bf ( and viceversa ) for one weekend since these are people in their 60s and not honeymooners, and the disabled brother is well cared for and attended to and he has company anyway....
Well, yes, of course if there's a will there's a way .... but, when questioned WHY this woman should have the WILL to inconvenience herself, the cats, the neighbour, the boyfriend and the brother.... to please my mom, the answer is : OUT OF RESPECT. OUT OF COURTESY. In short, my mom feels she is OWED a visit, whether this lady likes it or not. She does not want to be in " debt " and she feels she is OWED the chance to disoblige herself.
Now, I don't know, it is even possible that going strictly by etiquette and formality my mother may have a point . Maybe she is OWED a visit.
But I- and any common sense people I have talked about this, feel that , if any, what's really disrespectful is expecting to trouble and inconvenience people so that can do your bidding ; and forcing them to do whatever , for reasons of theirs , does not please them to do , just because it pleases you instead.
This is not about respect, this is about ego. Some people just can't accept that in the world there will also be persons who may not feel as cultivating or maintaning a bond with you is their main priority, nor feel it SHOULD be.
You have decided that this guy should want a close, warm, affectionate bond with you. Why ? I mean, of course in an ideal world it would be nicer if he'd consider you a second mom and asked nothing better than making you integral part of his family life , but if it does not come natural, why he has to do it ? He will have his own reasons. Maybe he just does not like you and tolerates you only because of your daughter ( it happens with in-laws , it's no shocking revelation ). Maybe he is an independent type and has all other views about family bonds and closeness , he only needs and apppreciate that up to a certain extent and no more. Maybe he feels that his true family is / will be your daughter and their kids, without the need to make it an extended one. Maybe he is just a young, busy, hardworking guy with little free time and that little he has he prefers, not very surprisingly to spend it .. NOT with his mother in law.
Yes, he makes mistakes too. He does thing he should not do- like ignoring your texts or e-mails. But, talking about
" hints ".... he does not get your hints , and you don't get HIS !
Silence is his way to NOT be REALLY rude and have to tell you : Lady, lay off me. Let me be !
I mean, the restaurant thing ? Really ? That's sleeve pulling for attention, in my book.
You are a still YOUNG woman, you sound intelligent and articulate, you can obviously use a PC..... and you NEED the " man of the house " to find a restaurant in another city ? ... Nahh, I don't buy this.
Haven't you ever heard of TripAdvisor??? ( or DOZENS of other sites appositely studied to select a restaurant, with prices, menus, clients' reviews, everything ! ) can't you just Google " restaurants open Monday in... " ? Is there no Tourist Bureau in this city ? No Tourist info point whatsoever ? Can't you just take the Yellow Pages and make a few phone calls ?.....
Your SIL's silence speaks volumes, I think- it says " No, I don't believe that you are the type who could not find her way out of a paper bag- but, if you really are such a type, sorry, your problem then ".
And the thing about, he does not want to move closer to you becaue of his work ?.... Are you serious ? Instead that thanking God that your daughter has found a companion who is ambitious, successful, and takes his job and his future seriously ! OF COURSE he wants to stay where he has more probability to have success. Why don't YOU move closer to them instead ?
Anyway, in short : what you should do ? You should look at the bigger picture and realize that you do not have a real, bad problem after all. This guy loves your daughter, treats her well, provides well for her. He does not prevent your daughter from communicating with you. She can call you and visit you on her own whenever she wants. You are not banned to go there and visit, you can go anytime. He is not doing anything to spoil your relationship with your daughter, he is not putting her against you or badmouthing you.
He just wants some piece and quiet , and not to be pushed to become your bosom buddy, or the male child you never had. Is this really SO bad ?! You can't be in everybody's " My Top 5 Favourite People in the world " list : be content that you are in your daughter's , which is no small accomplishment !
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (2 September 2015): Wow, this is really taking a nasty turn.
WiseOwlE have you not read my post in which I say that I advised my daughter to go to counselling and she realised that I had ALWAYS put her first except that I had this bad relationship? I never lived with the man involved, so he was distant from her. I've admitted, nevertheless that it did affect her. My life certainly has not been all about me I can guarantee you that and I can guarantee my daughter is crystal clear about that.
I have done exactly as you've already said - been sweet to them and made all the effort with her boyfriend. It's not just ME that he won't initiate with - he has a problem doing this with anyone outside of his 'circle'. I worry about this FOR MY DAUGHTER'S SAKE in the longer term because, as Janniepeg has pointed out, it's like this is his way of guaranteeing her full attention. I am aware that my daughter's friends have described him as a Mummy's boy and it worries me because Mummy's boy's tend to want everything their own way. I worry about there now like I worried enough all through her life - enough to basically put most of my own needs on hold so that she could thrive - and she is thriving, but the situation with him worries me more because we have no other family.
You'd think a gay man writing in might have a bit more empathy for what single parents go through historically - can't you see it's difficult for a young woman in the nineties, with a kid, to pick and choose the best partners when the government is basically saying single mothers are scum?
All I wanted was some advice about how to make the situation better WITHOUT hurting either of them. Instead, three of you have taken a very nasty view of what's going on here. I do wonder why that is and why you seem so keen to read things into this that simply aren't there.
To be clear, I'm asking what to do when someone doesn't a. answer text messages b. make any effort at all to help to choose a restuaurant for their partner's special occasion. If I really WAS the nasty, selfish mother that you seem to be painting me as, I wouldn't bother trying to organise a restaurant and I certainly wouldn't involve him in trying to organise it. OF COURSE I don't need his help with it and could do it myself - it's one of those inclusive gestures that people make when they are trying to help everyone to get on together.
From what you say I've no right to expect to be responded to by text message and no right to try to include someone in choosing a restaurant. Well, blow me, what on earth was I thinking. Janniepeg thank you again, your post is the only one that makes any sense of this.
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reader, anonymous, writes (2 September 2015): As an adult, your daughter has the right to choose her own mate, where they live, and how frequently she visits you.
Trying to make a family now, after you've lived your lifetime doing as you pleased; it puzzles me that you should criticize her choices, and the man she has fallen in love with. You are not one to criticize, to be totally honest.
Most of her life, it was about you and your mistakes. Now, family and closeness is important to you. Visit when you can, and be as pleasant as necessary to get along. You're inviting yourself into her home, and her life now. It's no longer about you. You represent a lot of pain; so now you must be as kind and humble as ever. If you don't know how, find faith and a spiritual life.
Do you forget what pillow-talk is all about? She has told her mate everything she has been through, and the life she shared with you. So naturally he isn't really all that enthused about your being around. So, in order that things remain civil; you must be the best guest you could ever be. Not come into their lives with a your clipboard and pencil; taking a critique of what's good and what's not.
They sense your disapproval! And you wonder why you don't feel welcome in their home?!! If your home is too small, and you have a good job. Get a larger place.
You want to maintain a mother-daughter relationship? You're blaming her boyfriend for the distance?
What you've forgotten is that your daughter is one half of the decisions they make. The distance could very much be her idea. Just as she found a school far from you and your drama. I'd say that was deliberate. Not for the reasons you may believe. It was the distance she needed in order to getaway from the dysfunctional childhood you gave her. You blame everyone else, but own no responsibility for your choices; nor the environment you subjected her to.
I don't think you have a right to go and upset their love-nest. Visit, be sweet to them, and leave on a good note. They have no obligation to live close to you, and it is you who needs time alone to rebuild your social-life.
Not be dependent on your daughter to provide you what you didn't use your own time and energy to create for yourself. A life filled with friends, lovers, social activities, and good memories you could share with your daughter.
Nothing stops you from calling, writing letters, or taking a trip to visit. You can always stay in a nearby hotel or inn. You know what the internet is, and you can find nice restaurants through a travel agent or tourist information center. Every quaint town and village in Europe, has a tourist attraction, and place to house visitors. They tell anyone and everyone where the best places are to eat and sleep. Use them. A good guest is never a burden on their host or hostess. Hospitality is a gift.
In the immediate and longer term, build yourself a new life.
You're still in your forties.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2015): To Honeypie and Youwish I am only asking for a tiny bit of co-operation on his part. And ordinary respect. That's all. You are really trying to turn my post into something it is not and trying to discern some selfish motive on my part which is really not there. I have a really full and active life and although I found it hard when my daughter said she wasn't coming back, after five years I have adjusted. Janniepeg your advice is "bang on" the money. I don't feel I should have to accept being treated disrespectfully and Honeypie and Youwish, this is what your advice basically amounts to - encouraging me to accept being treated badly, which I won't. I don't interfere with their life at all and even my daughter says he has a VERY cushy job and few responsibilities because he's never had to pay rent. So I don't think I am being unreasonable. And I am NOT imagining that my daughter misses me a lot - she cried on the phone just the other week and every other month is saying she is still uncertain as to whether she wants to stay in that city with him. She has said if he was more flexible nothing would stop her from coming back to live nearer to me.
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reader, janniepeg  +, writes (1 September 2015):
 I am almost 35. I would prefer not to talk about relationships with mom but if she gives me advice, she's always right although I know it myself already. Is a man who is rude to mother in law really good for your daughter? Does that coldness transfer to her one day. I agree he is rude and you have valid concerns.
What I am guessing is that your daughter knows how he is but defers to him. She might even be reluctant to visit you, afraid of how he feels. When she tells you he's good for her, she might be convincing herself that all is good even though something is missing.
I don't think this is an example where you just butt off and accept. You can talk to your daughter, and only reach out when she needs it. I do think moms wisdom is valuable. She has decided to marry him, so it's her responsibility if one day she's fed up with his lack of empathy.
I know that having a good job is much better than abusive losers but common courtesy and politeNess is an essential quality that you must not look past in a partner.
I would refuse to visit him and your daughter come to you. Don't be afraid of losing your daughter to him. I am sure the distance caused by him would eat at her and she would have to stand up for herself one day.
If my husband is rude like that to my mom I would confront him and not let the issue go until he's nice to her. I would also rethink my relationship.
My last relationship ended because my ex would not ingratiate as you said. I don't know what people's problems are when they can't treat in laws as family. What your daughter's boyfriend is doing, I suspect, is cuffing her so no one else would be competing for her attention.
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reader, Honeypie +, writes (1 September 2015):
 I agree with YouWish.
I think this is more about YOU not liking the fact that HE isn't bending over backwards for you. HE is HER BF - so no, he doesn't have to "ingrain" himself - seems like he is actually a busy guy who works hard, take care of his parents and your daughter.
And have you considered that SHE is OK living away from you? Being independent from you? From the chaos of your first marriage and last relationship?
You are on your own now, the "empty nest syndrome" is hitting you maybe a little harder because she is all you got. But you... are not ALL she has. She has a BF (who seems like a good guy) his parents, you, a job and a happy life.
This is what happens when kids grow up. They fly the coop. I didn't plan on living 6,600 km away from my parents, my brother/SIL/nieces/uncles/aunties/cousins etc. But this is where I have ended up.
I Skype with my Dad once a week - I write the family and friends emails at least once a week, I keep in touch. YES I would LOVE to spend more time in person with them all, but for now, it's no doable.
She has her own life now. Doesn't mean you don't mean the World to her, but if I were you I would be careful with putting the resentment of the BF's lack of "servitude" to you on to your daughter, because if she is made to feel that she has to choose... She might choose him.
As for picking out restaurants, MAYBE your daughter's BF is not really familiar with a lot of them. You can google them as easily as he can.
I think he also knows that you do not like him. Hence why he keeps a safe distance.
And I agree with YouWish - that YOU can move closer to them as "easily" as they can move closer to you.
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reader, YouWish +, writes (1 September 2015):
I'm going to be honest with you, because I read your post carefully and see a common thread through the entire thing. I think you need to look at him in a different light. He's good for your daughter, works hard, makes a good life for her, he's stayed with her, she loves him, and you say that when he did visit you, it was a "fantastic time".
The common refrain is that you don't like him because of what he does or doesn't do for YOU, not your daughter. You had doubts about him from the beginning, and you've based your entire opinion about his worthiness based on how he's supposed to "ingratiate with you". I'm guessing that he's sensed your doubts and is avoiding contact with you because in your mind, the deck is stacked against him from the start.
I know you miss your daughter, but she's moved long distance from you. Her boyfriend can't be the man in your life, and I sense that as well. You have to understand - your daughter seems to have chosen a guy who is good for her. I would never say this in front of her, but when you have chosen a guy for yourself, there has been a pattern of bad apples. Maybe what you look for in a guy wouldn't be the best thing for her.
Also, why not you move closer to them? You have a small flat, and you didn't mention whether or not you work. Can you not move to the area they live in, or at least make trips to visit your daughter? Why must she be the one to visit you? It goes both ways.
You say her boyfriend makes no effort with YOU, right?? He has parents as well, and he isn't hindering your daughter from visiting you. I think you're asking too much from a guy who is not your daughter's husband.
I think you are the one at risk for sacrificing your relationship with your daughter if you continue to make it a "me or him" situation. Kids grow up and leave the nest. You raised her well. It is time for you to enrich your life with friends, hobbies, interests, a new chapter in your life, and if possible, maybe a guy whose primary goal is to make you happy, which will take the pressure off of your daughter's boyfriend, who is treating her really well, and that is the primary goal for him, and rightly so.
He's not badmouthing you. He isn't restricting your daughter from visiting. He isn't mistreating her like your exes did to you. Your daughter fell in love with someone who lives farther away from you. Some of what you feel may be because of illness which can trigger or exacerbate depression. Some of it may be empty nest syndrome. My mom had a really hard time when I left the home, but in her case, my parents moved away from the state I lived in to over 1,000 miles away. It took years for her to find the next chapter of her life. We still have a good relationship...better now that I'm on my own with my own family.
The guy is good her your daughter. When he's around you, he's good to you. Don't put more on him than there should be because of your emotional needs.
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reader, malvern +, writes (1 September 2015):
 It's a tricky one. Reading between the lines it seems to me that perhaps your daughter should make more effort to keep in contact with you. If it was me I would keep in weekly contact with your daughter and make all arrangements with her. If her boyfriend doesn't like it then that's tough! She's your daughter so don't allow him to come between you. I would carry on as though he's invisible (which he virtually is anyway!). Do his opinions really matter to you anyway? I'm sure they don't.Be positive about the restaurant. I'm sure you can find something on the internet and just get it booked. I think I would stop commenting on the boyfriends behaviour and just concentrate on your daughter. Her boyfriend probably is just plain rude but unfortunately there's not a lot you can do about it. It's irritating for you, I know, but it's her life and her choice.So, in the immediate and longer term keep bonding with your daughter, and, if they have children you can bond with them too (which I'm sure you will). You never know, the boyfriend may eventually start to 'come out of himself' once they have children.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2015): This is the OP - I forgot to add they are both 27 years old!
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