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male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes: All my life, I keep having trouble meeting girls/young women and I know I must be reading them wrong. Tell me please what magic tricks you're using because I've asked and I've read up on body language and I'm still lost (and yeah, getting pissed off at girls/young women in general and that's not a good thing).From HS up until now, I have a hard time knowing if a girl is just talking to talk, flirting for attention, or just interested. I don't know how many times I've approached a girl in class/in line/coffee shop/friend of a friend on bowling night, had a nice conversation (sometimes for up to 45 minutes!) and then when I go to exchange numbers, she turns me down. I understand maybe I misread her but I feel led on and like I could have been talking to someone who actually was interested! It would be stupid to say, "Hey, are you talking to talk or do you just like the attention?" That would make me an asshole.I have gotten numbers (people I know through friends/activities and sometimes strangers who I see around a lot) and we hit it off (or so I think). I take the girl out a few times, we text a lot, and after a few dates I invite her to my place. Suddenly, she's not so interested and says she wants more time to date/get to know me before she commits. I get that it's a safety thing, but it could go on for three months (after only seeing her in PUBLIC places and she's real secretive about where she lives and acts annoyed when I come to surprise her at work) and she goes, "Oh ... I guess it's not really working out. I just want to be friends." So I feel I wasted all my time going after her when I feel like she used me for attention. I hate being led on but after I ask and ask if she knows yet, I'm "pestering" her.I've totally skipped the dating phase before too, and I know that's ass-hole mode, but those guys at least get the girls. So we'll just basically spend enough time together that pretty much everyone assumes we're dating anyway and we'll even sleep together and after awhile she gets all demanding about going out, and swears I'm using her for sex.I can't win! If I'm an asshole, I feel bad (honestly) but if I try to date her for awhile and be respectful, she changes her mind. If I think I'm flirting and getting toward a number/date she acts all offended and surprised.I've been told that I'm not assertive enough, that I am friend-zoning myself because I'm too nice. But I'm also told I come on too strong and demanding. So ... which is it? How do I tell if a girl just wants attention or if she's seriously looking? None of my female friends can answer my question (or won't). If I am attracting that kind of girl, what should I look for to avoid her? Sorry I sound so hateful, I'm just genuinely frustrated and sort of venting.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 July 2014): You are approaching everywhere, which is awesome, keep doing that. Dating is a numbers game, as a dude, expect to get rejected 90% of the time.
But you need to learn when it's time to bail. If a girl likes you romantically and not just for the attention, she won't be evasive, she will be responsive, she won't make excuses, it will all happen very naturally.
During the dates, remember not to think of the end goal or of your past failures, they will sense that and will shut down. Just enjoy your time with her.
A
female
reader, jls022  +, writes (28 July 2014):
Dude you sound way to desperate and way too demanding. Sorry to be blunt, but if a guy acted that way towards me I'd be really put off.
"I feel led on and like I could have been talking to someone who actually was interested!"
You are putting way too much pressure on these girls. Talking to someone is not leading someone on, it's getting to know someone. They are working out whether they like you and want to get to know you better. Sadly in some cases they won't feel a spark, such is life, but they certainly don't owe you anything. To act annoyed at them for not falling for you instantly is both unfair and a little childish. It will also come across loud and clear when you speak to these girls, and that sort of entitled attitude from an almost complete stranger would have me running for the hills.
Do you even use the time with these girls to work out whether YOU like THEM? It sounds as if you are so concerned with sealing the deal, that you don't stop to realise that dating is about working out whether you are attracted to and compatible with another person. It's not about magic ways to get women or body language or any of those other gimmicks, it's about finding someone you connect with and want to build a relationship with.
And to be honest, that's the most fun part! You are too busy trying to rush to the finish line (sex or love - it's not clear what you want from your post), that you are missing the fun of dating someone and getting to know them.
"After a few dates I invite her to my place. Suddenly, she's not so interested and says she wants more time to date/get to know me before she commits..... I ask and ask if she knows yet, I'm "pestering" her."
You are rushing again. This type of behaviour screams of desperation and is the ultimate turn off. Give people time to get to know and like you (and you them) and the intimacy and commitment will follow. Men who push for it too hard give off the vibe that any moderately attractive woman will do, which doesn't exactly make a woman feel special.
My advice to you is to chill out and enjoy getting to know people in the moment rather than focusing on turning it into something more. And remember to think about whether you really connect with these women too, in the same way they are doing with you. That way, you won't be placing high expectations on these girls from the first meeting, and any relationship will develop naturally from a mutual like and respect for each other.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (28 July 2014): 1. you meet a girl (somewhere innocent) you have a conversation and get "rejected" when she says she didn't want to talk to you after that. It's not personal, really. I do that all the time, and while I feel bad, I get upset because men go into it wanting a number while I just thought we were having a pleasant conversation that would end when we parted ways2. You DO get her number, you date for a few weeks or a few months before she lets you be alone with her and she says she just wants to be friends or it isn't working out. That's NOT YOU. She was just protecting herself from emotional hurt (which happens more likely when she has sex) and you only gained a friendship. Yes, you lost out on casual sex (but why would you want that anyway?) and yes, you lost out on a relationship, but she didn't want one so she would have dumped you anyway3. OK. so you skipped the dating and the flirting and went straight for relationship/sex and she didn't get the chance to know you as a person. OF COURSE SHE FEELS USED!4. It does sound like you view women as less friends and more "potential relationships" If you have "too many " female friends, I can see (from my guy friends who have a lot of female friends but never a girlfriend) point of vew, that you put yourself into the "too nice" zone. But really?I believe you are a nice guy at heart. You do want to be friends with your girlfriend, but you want commitment with sex too. That doesn't make you a bad perso. You are accidentally approaching women who get their ego boost from affection/attention only. When you get "just sex" you have a conscience and you feel bad. You get a lot of mixed messages.I'm not saying all church people are perfect (I spent my entire life in a Fundamental Independent Baptist Church), because they're not. But you will be able to befriend and court women you WANT to date. They generally don't even kiss until marriage and while it is quaint, the message is clear. In my church, there is no such thing as "male-female friends". Your future wife IS your only girl friend. But no one is used or as broken afterward. Just a thought
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (28 July 2014): "So we'll just basically spend enough time together that pretty much everyone assumes we're dating anyway and we'll even sleep together and after awhile she gets all demanding about going out, and swears I'm using her for sex."I don't get it. Why didn't you make this girl your girlfriend? You guys hit it off, had sex early on in the "relationship", and then you dropped her? I thought you wanted a girlfriend and was frustrated that girls would turn you down when you asked for their phone number or dropped you once you wanted to take them to your place. Or did you misunderstand and read her incorrectly, thinking she knew this was a non-committed thing? No one knows for sure something is mutually non-exclusive and short-term unless you say so. Be clear next time. That way your intentions are clear and no one will accuse you of using someone for sex. "I've been told that I'm not assertive enough, that I am friend-zoning myself because I'm too nice. But I'm also told I come on too strong and demanding. So ... which is it?"Women/girls don't turn people down for being "too nice." It's a myth. It's an excuse to put the fault on women, and not on the person who got rejected. You have to be in between. Be confident. NOT pushy and cocky. Be considerate. NOT desperate for female attention. How do you tread that fine line? Life becomes easier when you don't make it your goal to find a partner. Yes, humans are social creatures and desire companionship, but as soon as you stop making it your mission to find a girlfriend or get laid, the more fun you'll have when you go out and meet new people. I'm not suggesting that you ask a girl out, then quickly move on to the next target until a girl finally says yes. That would make you a jerk because then you're not putting any effort in and you're also not treating women as if they were individuals. They'll just be reduced to check marks on your wall. Socialize for the sake of meeting new personalities. If something more comes from it, then kudos to you. Abandon your one-track-mind pursuit for intimacy. By doing so, you'll be less bitter and you'll expand your social circle. What's so bad about making friends? The friend-zone is a term that people, mostly men, use to describe how someone has slighted them. To describe the pain they feel from rejection after they invested so much effort towards someone they were attracted to. Think about the girls/women you talk to who "friend-zone" you. Do you drop contact with them once they reject you? If you do, consider how they feel. You basically just told them you're only after one thing and because they didn't give it, you wanted nothing more to do with them.Of course, being friends with someone you really really like is difficult. So I understand if you cut ties with them for your emotional well-being, but make sure you aren't doing that simply because you didn't get what you want.
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A
female
reader, Euphoric29  +, writes (28 July 2014):
Dear OP,
I am a female and there is no magic trick to read other people.
My first advice is to forget the stupid body language bullshit you've read, because it's just people trying to make money by showing you "6 ways to know if she will go home with you" etc. There is no serious science behind that.
So, here comes my first and most important advice.
Stop having such high expectations about the outcome of a simple chat or a date. Don't take rejections so personal. They happen to everybody.
Some possible examples to make your life easier in the future:
- "I hate being led on but after I ask and ask if she knows yet, I'm "pestering" her." If she says she just wants to be friends, the case is clear: She does not want to have sex with you. Ever. Nothing to be asked about it. Self-confident guys just move on after they understood that they are not seen as a potential date. And then they forget about it. If you need to ask somebody if they want a relationship, and they keep delaying the answer for months, that's probably already the answer, too.
- "I've totally skipped the dating phase before too, and I know that's ass-hole mode, but those guys at least get the girls. So we'll just basically spend enough time together that pretty much everyone assumes we're dating anyway and we'll even sleep together and after awhile she gets all demanding about going out, and swears I'm using her for sex." OP, if you skip the dating phase and refuse to go out with a girl.. it comes down to a sex relationship. And she had probably hoped for more, so you've disappointed her. Open communication about your wishes would have prevented that. You can have as many ONS/FWB as you want as long as the girl knows you don't want a relationship. Just say "this is just for fun, I'm not looking for anything serious right now", and if she is fine with that, you are not an asshole.
- "I've been told that I'm not assertive enough, that I am friend-zoning myself because I'm too nice. But I'm also told I come on too strong and demanding.So ... which is it?" Probably both. You want a lot from women and you want a lot out of every conversation and of every new date. You want it to end in phone numbers, sex, love (?) and you get pissed off when your expectations are not fulfilled. And at the same time you accuse yourself of not being able to read women well. You are building so much frustration.
"So I feel I wasted all my time going after her when I feel like she used me for attention." OP, most girls don't "use guys for attention". They start dating you, to get to know you (probably because you've been nice). And your behavior makes them rethink about whether or not they want to have sex/relationship with you (probably because you are too demanding). But they might not mean you are so "friendly" that they want to be your true friend, just that they don't want sex and that they hope you won't get too mad at them.
If you see dating as an unnecessary waste of time because in the end, you didn't get the desired end result, you are bound to become hostile and not much fun. Take it easy. You are a valuable human being, whether or not this particular girl will fall for you or take you home. Try not to apply so much pressure on your new encounters. Just be curious about THEM. Not about what YOU get out of it.
That's maybe another important advice: Don't just try to win a game. Show true and honest interest in your date.
I can sense your hatred and it's not a good vibe to give off while dating. Remind yourself about what you like in women/girls, why you want to date them in the first place. Maybe you also need a break, to see that there are other important things in life.
I hope that you will be more lucky in the future, but really, don't lose your hope and good attitude. Or you will get sucked into a vicious circle of behaving badly and being rejected, which won't make you happy.
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