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*adbrit
writes:Sorry this may be long, I hope you read it though and have suggestions.Basically I was in a relationship for three years, we had ups and downs, but always managed to sort things out I think cos we had such a strong love. However she fell pregnant when I didn’t want her to last year, and I reacted badly and was not very supportive. (I have two other children and was not sure if I wanted more). Anyway the baby came, and we managed to get on ok, (if nothing else, we get on well and lived together well). But I was not making her happy and vice versa due to me being an idiot and focusing on the wrong stuff - she is untidy, not able to reach out when things are going a bit wrong, sometimes a bit selfish etc, but she was very loving. In May she said she had had enough and that was that. It made me realise what I had, and I tried my damndest to get things going better. I changed and really changed (proof of that is that I am sensitive enough to have come to this site!!)Anyway, for three months I was kind, considerate, loving, attentive, helped with baby, made sure she had no finanical burdens, and we got on better than ever although there was still this problem - she wouldn’t kiss me, or hug me etc, but would kiss and hug me in response etc, she said it felt like something was missing and basically she was very confused. Well anyway, eventually a few weeks ago I noticed an improvement, she would apologise if she pushed me too far, she would ask for a kiss or hug, would hold my hand, would talk about holidays and that stuff again. I thought we were through it all. Then last week she went out with friends and didn’t get home until 4am. She said she was at mate’s house after club, having fun, with two girls friends. I did not get angry, but made it clear I was not impressed (this too shows how much I have changed, I just said I was not impressed rather than go mad). Anyway, I suspected there was more to it than that and was moody the next day for first time in three months, so through quick sneaky investigations found out she had gone to mate’s house yes, but two lads were there, and she had a drunken kiss with one. I raised the issue immediately, demanding the truth (still not going mad) and eventually got it, and cleverly got evidence that she had told me truth and it was just a drunken kiss. But I also found out that it had made her think about things again and so I went away for the night, came home and she had changed. I chatted to her and she said that basically she had been happy the last few months, and especially the last few weeks when I thought we had cracked it, but the spark was still missing and she can’t live without it and thought it could never come back, and mentioned anger to how I had been back a while ago, and not supportive in pregnancy (kid is now eight months old and I have made up for it as much as I can). She said other things came back that she wasn’t expecting, we got on well, she loved being with me, thought she wanted to be with me, was so confused etc (I do believe that) but she had this hole and didn’t want to live with it.Anyway, I chatted to her kindly, and gave her choice, - I stay and we carry on moving forward slowly as we had been, going in right direction, with things fixing one at a time, or I go, end of, get on with my life, or I give her some space. I gave her a bit of time to think which she wanted, and went out, then when I came home and asked she said, "I don’t know!" So I stayed, but tonight she was distant, normally puts feet up on me for rub, when goes to bed ALWAYS kisses goodnight (not one day in three years has she not done that), well she didn’t tonight. I sighed, but then she came back downstairs, said sorry, hugged me, then went to go back upstairs. I said "No kiss?" she got huffy and I followed her up and she said she was sorry but she just can’t seem to give me what I want, and was so tired of it all. I gave her the three options again and said I would respect it. She cried and upshot was it was clear she wanted me to go, she said sorry blah blah and cried, so I said, "Ok, but if that is what u want" and left promising not to be back begging for another chance, I will have to consider it over. I obviously want her back and wonder if I can do anything to get this. Variables - hard labour and birth. Prone to depression anyway, now been diagnosed with an overactive thyroid (this morning) which affects hormones and makes you lethargic and tired and off food, During the May - now period when I was busting balls to show her we can be happy our son became ill and we were in hospital for four weeks and he now will need medicine for life to control a condition which was bolt out of blue. Trust me, things had been great lately, til last week, I had been Mr perfect, getting advice from here and following it and she was getting better and feeling better (except the spark and buzz thing), she had huge strides forward, said she had begun to stop thinking or dwelling on what had happened before. I think she just can’t see how lucky she is. What shall I do, move on, or give her time and hope she sees that she was happy was? The thing is, I know if she can get over her anger of the past, and see that we have tons of positives with just the one problem (Her spark) that if everything else could come back. Yes by the way I have suggested counselling but she not think it would work. Do I just accept it?
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 August 2006): I think they were worst than you have mentioned. I think that you should seek individual counseling as it sounds like you are VERY insecure and VERY controlling.
You probably had a parent that was very demanding of you and overbearing.
I say counseling so you can unroot the reasons why you feel the need to tell the EX what she should say and do.
I suspect that this is cyclic behaviour in that you may now recongize how you are...but may not have come to terms will all things the Ex stated made her unhappy and disagree with it; therefore this will be repeative behaviour.
Please do this so that you can overcome your feelings of hurt and abandonment as well as finding the root cause and dealing with it as well.
Good Luck Guy.
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male
reader, badbrit +, writes (16 August 2006):
badbrit is verified as being by the original poster of the questionMalce, Yos has already made me see all you have said, and in summary you are right, and I already know that, you said this – “She sounds like she is a very sensitive, loving, responsive woman and is even more so when YOU are able to notice and appreciate how and who she is.” That is exactly what I missed and didn’t see it until it was too late. And basically that is right and everything else except the abusive and controlling part was also right. I know that, can see that you basically reap what you sow, and that is what I am doing.
I have no hope left and have accepted I spoiled a great woman and doing that is what has made her no longer wants me and nothing else but I did that and who can blame her.
I should have taken all the pressure off, and I didn’t. I was being very nice, affectionate, loving, caring, understanding but that was only part of the issue and what was the main thing, I kept repeating mistakes and she could not feel better about the relationship when the main thing that was making things “hell” for her I kept doing. As you say, the main issue was past treatment and the continuing to do it even now, and how I was making her feel was far removed from perfect and so I see now that what I thought was the relationship we were having was not the one she felt we were having.
What I thought at times was really good was in fact as you said hell for her.
I am not deluding myself that things had improved a hundredfold in recent times cos they had in some aspects, BUT I can also see that I was continuing to do the past mistakes and the stuff that caused the problem in the first place. Instead of saying, “thanks for telling me that, I will take it on board, it is useful etc” I ignored it asked for more from her instead of appreciating what she had given and then turned it onto her. I was at fault and made out she was.
I also always wanted more, if she hugged me I wanted a kiss, if she said “I love you,” I wanted her to say “I love you loads and loads” etc, that is part of my character and is a flaw, and she has said that, but understanding that is a problem would prevent me doing it again. I did some things very badly 18 months ago, when I saw it and how much of a problem it was, I stopped it and those particular things NEVER happened again, so I know I would have stopped doing that too.
I am awakening to all of this, and I will move on and learn from it for my next relationship.
I will say that although I know it is now dead in the water for the reasons you and Yos said, the reality is that people can live and learn and improve, can make things better, can take things on board, can fix them. You cannot fix something if you don’t understand it. I fixed what I THOUGHT was the problem, but didn’t fix what WAS the problem. Now the relationship has ended, I am having to tell myself some harsh truths and I am learning new things everyday about myself, I wish I had learnt this earlier as each realisation is hitting me, I am seeing even more that I could have fixed it, but only if I had known before I destroyed her love for me.
I have destroyed that now, and now she does not love me, and maybe now hates me. She has gone so far that she does care less if I could fix it, she dislikes me so much that she doesn’t want me to.
It is hard, but I am accepting that.
As you both total it all up, it adds up to many many problems when I thought it was just one thing.
I can see why she cant think it can be fixed, because there is too much to fix. But they are not as bad as they sound, they just involved some adjustments but hey ho, it is all history now.
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 August 2006): She sounds like she is a very sensitive, loving, responsive woman and is even more so when YOU are able to notice and appreciate how and who she is.
You are not Mr. Perfect, no one is so don't get all pig headed. Perhaps you were more responsive and attentive than you normally are. If you were indeed HER Mr. Perfect; you would not be on here as things would be going swimmingly. It all matters on whose perspective...what is what you deem "perfect" may be hellish to her.
It seems like she is struggling with how she was treated while she was pregnant and this is what makes her question her worth to you. Why couldn't you be supportive to her then; isn't that how a man who is in deep love should be? She is hurt by other things that are obviously not showing up here as you were very careful and calculating in how you represented yourself. Your statement of how clever you were to root out the truth of the situation of the kiss with the mate indicates you may be a very abusive and controling man.
Get some individual counseling if this be the case or not. Figure out what is "wrong" on your side of things and work them out.
If you were indeed the greatest man ever; why would she be unhappy? She still struggles with your past treatment of her and you need more than a few months to prove this as most men/women can "change" for a few months before they slide back into the old ways.
I suggest you sign up for some couple's counseling ASAP.
This will be of help to her and you and will help locate where trust and intamacy issues derive from.
Women need to feel valued and need to feel that they can trust and rely on their man as these will in fact effect desire and intmacy issues.
I don't think you are as good a man as you lay claim to as you are coming on here and putting ALL of the responsibility and burden on her; what more can you do to promote change...how can you be of support? How can you listen and not re-act? How can you give her space and time when you are tapping your foot and looking at your watch?
Get some couples counseling in place. Tell her that you would like 8 sessions before making a decision.
I say couples counseling; give it a go.
And Dude, stop pressuring her. Just treat her like a Queen, if she has something to say, just listen-don't respond, don't react. Tell her thank you for sharing your feelings and concerns with me; I hope to see and improve.
Also, get a book by Stephen R. Covey and work TOGETHER on this book titled "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Families".
Good Luck.
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reader, badbrit +, writes (16 August 2006):
badbrit is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYos, i always do the right thing, i will support as much as i can, but i have to pay for my ex kids a certain amount, always have, cos that the right thing to do, and i also have 30% custody of them, so need a roof over my head for that, and to have this other lad to stay in.
So i have to pay what i can, but there is only so much money in the kitty, and cant give her so much so that i cannot pay my own rent.
As for "she may change", i think she is so caught up and feels that the relationship made her unhappy, and that i made her feel unhappy, she is never going to want to go back to that. And also she is the type of girl who once she closes the door and moves forward, she will never go backwards.
C'est la vie. The only shame like i say is that she wanted me, wanted us to be good, wanted us to be happy, for me to make her happy as i did at times, but she understandably lost faith because the evidence showed that it would always be good bad good bad, happy unhappy happy unhappy, but the truth at the end, and as was demonstated was i eventually became the right person, and the life would have now been happy and the on off on off was over, and that is not be deluded.
I know this cos i alone know me, and how i felt back then and how i feel now AND have done for months.
I know how i felt when things were good before, i know how i felt when it started to go wrong, i knew how i felt when i was trying to convince her it could be better before and i know how i feel and have felt for a long time more recently and they are totally different.
I said to her a couple months ago, i will stop telling you it can be good, proof is in the eating, and i will show u. When we get to a point in 6 months, a year, two years or whatever, and nothing has gone majorally wrong, you will see.
The shame is she called a halt after only three months because the past had hurt her so much and she could not let it go enough to live for the here and now.
Plus of course i failed in the last three months about 10% in that i lived a good life, but tried to blame her for how she was still feeling instead of appreciating what she gave and let it grow naturally.
You cant force something or rush it, it has to grow, and as soon as it grew a little i tried to force it and rush it instead of letting it carry on growing
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reader, Yos  +, writes (16 August 2006):
 Perhaps with some time she'll change. It would be a great shame to deprive your child of a close family to grow up in. But give her as much time as she needs (weeks, months, longer). You should try to support her as much as you can since that will be going to your baby, plus it might help how she feels towards you. And it's just the right thing to do.
I hope it works out well eventually.
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reader, badbrit +, writes (16 August 2006):
badbrit is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYos thank you again for advice, it seems nothing will fix it. I think any damage done is too deepset for her and i will have to learn to accept it and learn lessons for the future. It will be hard because i love her so deeply, and recently thought i had managed to get a break through and for her to feel positive about us again and we appeared to be starting to move forward together again, i guess i did in some ways, but some things were too far gone and too deep rooted. We rent a house, which i pay for lock stock the lot cos she not work, it is three bed, and our boy is in our room for now. I have two other kids so need a three bed house, she doesnt. I feel that if she really has had enough and wants away, and would prefer to live the life of a single mother, that is her perogative. She will have to leave our house as she is leaving the whole situation, I am kinda saying, i am here, this is me, and what i provide, if you do not want it, then you have to leave. So for that reason i explained i have no where else to go, and no money for anything else as i am paying ALL our current outgoings AND maintence to my ex wife. I am going to stay in the house until she finds something else, and give her no hassle, not say a word, not try and change her mind, not try to make her feel guilty, just accept we are over, and wait for her to find somewhere else, which i suspect will be very fast because she has quickly gone from confused but trying to dead set decided. Life will go on, and a normal reaction is to want to want to hope and want to hope that like some people, she will miss me and soften. I now that is silly, and will have to forget it and move on.Thanks again
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reader, Yos +, writes (15 August 2006):
I'm glad you read what I wrote the way it was intended :)
Yes its easy to accept someone by saying "You're screwed up, but I accept you anyway". But instead it has to be "To me you're not screwed up, you are wonderful". I've done the same thing too much myself. Just tell her all the ways you think she's amazing, then hug her and tell her you love her. Often.
Maybe write to her? Take what you just wrote and fit it to an email or letter to her. Hand-written letters are good ;) Tell her that you love her and that you won't contact her again, but you'd like her very much to contact you if / when she is ready. Explain what you just said here to her and see what happens.
I hope it works out for you.
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reader, badbrit +, writes (15 August 2006):
badbrit is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYos, you are a genius, at first I thought u didn’t get it and was angry reading your words, then I re-read and I realised you hit the nail on the head. I was blind and stupid. I thought simply showing love and being nice would make it all come back for her. I never made her feel like a good person and didn’t realise that what I was constantly doing was making her feel small and as if she was a freak and not good enough for me and I was better than her, I was the normal one! I always thought she was just unusual in that she reacted different in not reaching out and stuff, when she was the normal one, she could only react to how she was feeling, and if I did not make her feel worthy or good about herself, then how could she feel good about me or us.I thought I had cracked it because I showed affection, niceness, togetherness, understanding etc and cos I had accepted her for who she was and that I was great cos what I perceived as her weird ways didn’t bother me and I loved her regardless. Wrong big time. The truth is that she is normal, and anything she failed to do in the past was due to what I had done to her how that made her feel inside. We can only act on how we feel at that moment in time. If she didn’t reach out to me, it was because I did not deserve her to. I knew I loved her so much, always have, and more so recently, now I also can see that the reason she had something missing and it was not coming back was cos I made her feel like she must have a problem - post natal depression, hormones etc, was different, not being appreciative, not seeing what she did have etc which in turn made her feel a couple things - 1. bad about herself, like she was a freak or had issues, that she was not normal and 2. that she was trying, but I was the one not appreciating it, that she could not live up to my expectations, that whatever she did would not be enough or make me happy. If you feel that nothing you do is making someone happy or is enough and everything you do makes them unhappy, obviously you are not going to feel the pull towards them, you will feel that you are just not right together.What I should have done, is understood this before, and still done everything I have done recently which has shown that we can get on well, have a laugh, be content, good parents giving a good home to your young baby, be together which was 70% of the situation but I should have also realised that she did not have a problem – depression, anger, resent, tired, ill etc and should not have kept making her feel that something was wrong with her, that she was unusual, that what she was doing was not enough eg, if she hugged me, I made out that it was not enough and I also wanted a kiss when in reality the hug was bloody nice and showed how terrific she is. I should have just enjoyed it and said thanks for that babe. She is a terrific first class lady and she deserved the affection I gave her, but also deserved me making her know what a great person she is and how all her ways and things she does is great. I didn’t appreciate fully what a brilliant person she is which may have made her glow inside and get some inner happiness about herself. How could I have expected her to feel love for me when I was helping to stop her loving herself. Got to love yourself to love others. The thing is, now I know all this, and was actually so close before, I can make it work. I nearly did before I knew all this, but she probably will not feel that I can do that. She will feel tired of it all, no more energy for it understandably, when it only needed a very small amount of extra energy to reach the final stretch as I know me and I have shown and proven that I am capable of so much and can make things better once I understand them my only mistake is understanding after she already has had enough, and that is my fault for making her feel inadequate wrongly. I thought it was her fault, and sadly it was mine, and I am an idiot, I thought I worked it all out 3 months ago, when I only worked it out 80%, I missed a crucial ingredient, ignored it, and actually made the situation feel worse for her. My loss, thanks for advice though mate, I have learnt one thing. Ignore initial reactions, don’t pass blame, be more self critical, if someone is down on you, think more about why, listen to what they say, take it on board, take it away, and make it better. Don’t ever presume again.
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reader, Yos +, writes (15 August 2006):
I think you might be distorting reality a bit here.
In your post you excessively praise yourself and put her down. I'm hoping that you don't do that in your relationship with her (or did that), but my guess at her behaviour is that you perhaps did?
When she has a drunken kiss, you don't get angry, but instead you get moody and carry out sneaky investigations. I'd suggest that getting angry and telling her how you feel directly could have been a more honest response.
Even when you put yourself down, you do it half-heartedly and turn it around on her almost immediately:
"I was not making her happy... due to me being an idiot - she is untidy, not able to reach out, a bit selfish, etc...". Hold on, who is being the idiot here?
Your post comes across as a long list of criticisms of her. According to you, she is the one with past anger to overcome, and she is the one who can't see how lucky she is. You however have been 'Mr Perfect'.
Then you say she has had huge strides forward. Which is great. And that, after a difficult conversation, she asked you to leave. And that you left promising not to be back.
Maybe she realized you are not good for her, and that to move on she has to not be with you? After all, why should a woman want to stay with a man that thinks she is "selfish, irresponsible, dishonest, prone to depression and lethargy, and angry at her past"?
Given the tone of this post, and that she asked you to leave, and that you promised you wouldn't be back begging for more, your choice is clear: do not see her. If this post had been full of praise and love for her, then it might have been different advice. You are pushing a lot of negativity onto this woman, whilst holding yourself up as some kind of paragon. That is not the foundation of a balanced healthy relationship.
Sorry for being so harsh. You seem bright and motivated, and open minded. Perhaps you should be thinking about why she really wanted to leave you... and look for answers that only involve you and how you are, and are not attached to any of her deficiencies or problems?
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