A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:I'm in a frustrating spot. To get you to understand where I'm coming from I have to add as much detail as possible in my story. Please try and stick with it if you plan to give me feedback. I could really use help with this.A short background: I met a girl, (we'll call her) Lulu, while traveling out west in the summer of 2011. She was very cool and we hit it off immediately. We only hung out for three days on that trip. Six months after that trip, however, I began attending college. It turns out she goes to the same small liberal arts college. We got to talking and got really close that first semester. By the end of the semester we had been getting physical and gradually we began to feel things for each other. We talked a lot over that summer (I started school in January and it ended in May) and we got even closer, sending each other essay length emails back and forth, sharing music and movie recommendations and personal stories.That summer I did some more traveling and there were some personal conflicts arising within me that I was trying to deal with. I spent some time volunteering on a farm out west and I did a lot of thinking about my potential relationship with her. I thought to myself that maybe her and I should slow down. Her and I had only had a week together before summer break began and so I thought that we should get back to school and feel things out a little bit before we decided to commit to something more serious. (As a philosophy major) I needed to know certainly what my feelings were for her. Turns out she was under the assumption that we were already official from the moment that we had been physical despite me having told her after our first time that I wasn't necessarily looking for something.Here is where the mess begins:Upon returning for the next semester her and I were on the rocks. She was devastated by my decision to slow down and feel it out. She believed we were well past that and didn't need the time to think about anything. I knew certainly how I felt for her as I friend at the time and I didn't want to do anything that would ruin that relationship. Around this time I begin talking to a new dorm resident, (we'll call him) Mike. He and I hit it off. We'd play ping-pong together, rag on each other, watch movies and play video games. We even had similar tastes in music. He seemed pretty cool. Eventually he started hanging out with my group of friends and was always knocking on my door to hang out. However, it didn't take long for me to notice tension between Mike and Lulu. Around that time, my best friend from home came to visit and he also thought their tension was weird. From what I knew, she had been giving him private massages because he had a shoulder injury and her job on campus is a bodyworker for athletes (Mike played basketball).Over fall break he came into my room one afternoon to see what I was up to. We ended up getting into a conversation about girls. He apparently had been with A LOT of girls on campus and was giving me advice about how to get girls. I wasn't totally interested but I found it interesting. He then began to ask about Lulu and said he knew about our past. I immediately perked up and thought it was weird that he knew so much including details of our first encounters. Turns out, Lulu, told him almost everything, including our summer ordeal, over a massage. I didn't like that one bit. I like my privacy. He began to ask me where my relationship with Lulu stood and I gave him very brief answers. He started talking to me about how awesome her massages were and how she knows what she's doing with her hands. He asked me what I liked about her body and I told him. He agreed and said that she did have a nice body. Then he qualified all of this by saying, "Don't worry, I wouldn't do anything with a friend's girl." At this point I thought it was incredibly random of him to say that when my mind was nowhere in that ballpark. He ended the conversation by saying "And by the way, she told me not to tell you anything." That was the extent of our conversation that morning. But this was just the beginning.As the semester progressed he began to slip little things in here and there about naked massages and happy endings and described an encounter with a women who sounded like Lulu. I began to feel extremely uncomfortable with Mike and Lulu in the same room. It always seemed that he was putting me down or leading me astray or messing with me psychologically and like she was enjoying being around him more than me. Mind you, this whole semester her and I are still attempting to start a relationship and it feels good, but it also feels hot and cold at times. I put up with this for a whole month and it might have gone on longer had I stayed sober the night before it all broke open. The night before I confronted her, he and I were playing ping-pong when Lulu walked into the lounge. She sat down and Mike asked her if he could have "that same type of massage as last time." She replied, "you mean the one that didn't happen? maybe soon, but I don't know." That conversation made me uncomfortable so I left and made the excuse that I had homework to do. Instead, I went to go and smoke weed with a friend. I don't drink or smoke but I thought I would try it at least once in my life and this friend of mine wasn't coming back to campus next semester. I went for it. The feeling was weird but what it did for me was help me put together all the pieces of what Mike had been telling me and what Lulu had displaying to me in her interactions with him. SHE MUST HAVE DONE SOMETHING WITH HIM DURING A MASSAGE.The next day, I confronted her about it and she was shocked and all over the place. She denied anything happening. We talked for about 3-4 hours that night and she said she couldn't remember anything that happened with Mike and didn't understand why he was saying those things. Instead of answering my questions she stumbled over her words and continually affirmed her love for me. At one point she even accused me of cheating which I never have and she knows me better than that to think that I could. Her body language, her voice, and her words betrayed everything that she tried to convey. I didn't believe her and I wasn't about to continue my friendship with her.It's true that she didn't technically cheat since we weren't together, but it's practically an unwritten rule that when you're pursuing something with someone you only have eyes for them. It shows your commitment to wanting something that will last. And really, had she been forthcoming with something happening, I probably could have taken time, gotten over it, and we'd have that all behind us. But she continually denied for weeks when questioned and couldn't give me details about the various massages she gave him. We were close to cementing a relationship and so this revelation rocked both our worlds. Almost three weeks later, however, when I brought it up again (we were speaking less frequently now to take time and think about things) she said she would answer my questions. I asked her if she had done anything with Mike and what the massages were like; what did they do and what did they talk about. She told me that she massaged Mike twice, but couldn't remember if there was a third occasion. She told me that the massages were fully clothed and that she didn't work on his lower body, only his back and shoulders. She told me that she told him too much about our relationship because she thought that he and I were close and that she could trust him. She told me that their conversation eventually led to the topic of sex and during that conversation kept repeating to her that they were adults when she was hesitant about answering. She told me that he talked about how to bang girls and make them orgasm and she shared personal information about her sexual past and how she has never had an orgasm. This to me was crossing a line and I wasn't comfortable with it. She said it was all that happened and that the second massage consisted of less talking. Still, things didn't feel right. If it was this innocent I couldn't understand why it took her so long to tell me this. I had a feeling she was trying to make it seem like less happened so that we could move past it but it wasn't working for me.She kept telling me that she thought we should go and talk to Mike together but I didn't think an encounter like that would be fruitful. If she had something to hide and he was in on it, then I wouldn't trust the answers I would get. So we never talked as a group and instead she approached him on her own one day to tell him that she didn't trust him and that they couldn't be friends anymore. Apparently, I was told that Mike's reaction was very bad having stormed out of the room they were in. But she didn't tell me the whole conversation they had and would add missing details later on in the relationship that would confirm that she was being dishonest about his reaction. A week after their talk, I saw Mike from afar and he began laughing at me.She eventually stopped talking to Mike and ignored him whenever he was around. She deleted him from Facebook and told me that she didn't want to keep talking about the situation and that if we did, her and I would have to stop talking altogether. I decided that I would overlook my intuitions and suspicion and try a relationship with her. Throughout a five month relationship, I tried unsuccessfully to shake the thought that she was lying. I couldn't and currently we are in a bad place. There are more details to add but this has gotten so long already and I'm not even sure if anyone will read this. But if you do, I could really use some advice. I want to trust her, but I can't and I feel like the only way I can is if she admits to something more having happened because I believe certainly that something did yet she continues to deny. I hate looking like a fool and everyone that I've told all this too believes that she did something and is trying to cover it up. Please help, I do love this girl as a friend and a confidant and I'd like her to be in my life in some way but right now I'm not sure that I can handle that.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 August 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionFinal update to this question: Lulu has cheated on me. I recently got irrefutable proof that she had been two-timing me for a whole year with Mike despite claiming she loved me every second of that year. When confronted, she denied, became hysterical, and cut me out of her life without an explanation on her end.
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (20 March 2013): Generally it's a bad idea to try to control (or possess) LuLu or her sexual organs.You are at an age (college) where people experience and experiment a lot.Lulu has obviously "backed off" this guy. If you really love her--support her...and at the same time explain that her fidelity is important to you...and it's something you are willing to reciprocate and work together on.Tell her you'd rather know the truth and forgive her than have her carry around a secret. (If that is within your forgiveness capability). However, I would say there is only a 10-15 percent chance things went much further than she admitted.Your guy friend is obviously interested in Lulu on various levels. Explain to him that his interest put's strain on your friendship.Rhetorical comment: Can lulu get another part-time job than giving guys messages?Good luck--remember that life is long and your success is probably more important than college romances. (Easier said than done!)
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A
male
reader, wiseoldman  +, writes (20 March 2013):
I get the distinct impression you and Lulu never had full sex but that she did sleep with Mike. If she's a professional masseuse she never would have given a sports massage through clothing and you are, I'm afraid, naive to believe she would; and over-possessive to question her about how she earns a perfectly honest living.Love is not cerebral and you are tying yourself in knots with this constant over-analysis both intra and post-relationship. Take a deep breath, let this one go, and regard it as a lesson in what not to do when you're starting your next relationship. Above all remember the male-female dynamic should be pleasant, not an exercise in picking over every thought and every syllable.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (19 March 2013): Does your GF have the right to keep quiet about her sexual activities during any broken-up period? Yes.
Does that right apply to this secret? No.
She wasn't keeping a sexual secret about the past. She was keeping one about the present. Mike was not someone she dated for a few weeks while she was single and then neither one of you associated with him after that. This guy was still around in your lives after you & your GF were back together. That means a different set of rules applies.
I call this a betrayal on the part of both your GF and Mike. Both of them had an obligation to tell you the truth and they both lied to your face. I would kick them both out of your life.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (19 March 2013): I read your story with great interest.. I just can't understand why you are so on your high horse.. You were sexual intimate gave all the vibes you were more than interested. However when it meant taking the next step you chickened out and told her you wanted to be friends .. You want her as a friend or backup if nothing better comes along and really that's it..What she did or didn't do with mike is really none of your business. You forfeited that when you wanted just friendship.My advice leave her alone and let her find someone who will commit to her and not use her and become jealous when they think there someone else interested.. I think your like the candy boy in the candy shop, so many flavours you might like to try and there nothing wrong in that. But you should be honest with people at the beginning and do not lead them on to think , there is something when in fact there is nothing.
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A
male
reader, Xearo  +, writes (19 March 2013):
I read your story and I can say that I am just like you and I think the same way in terms of morals and logic. There are some things here which you just must accept.
Firstly, she had every right to be upset when you made your decision to just be friends. Being physical to a girl then proceeding to tell her that you just want to be friends is very hurtful. If you were in her situation you would have felt just as hurt. From this point the person in love, which is her, would be at a constant crossroads of moving on and waiting for you.
Whether or not she has done anything, really doesn't matter. You were not together with her and she did not owe you that sort of exclusivity as you did that offer her that form of commitment. While it can lead to the questioning of morals and such, we all make mistakes, no one is perfect, and we are only young once. You need to accept the fact that at the point the two of you were just friends, she was not as close to you as you thought and you did not know everything she did with her life. You are sort of jealous of this.
Take it from me, just accept who she is now. It doesn't matter what she did or didn't do. She said all that she had already and even gave up talking to the other guy. At the same time you have no real proof of anything that happened between them so all you are basing it on is a gut feeling derived from jealousy. If you keep this sort of unforgiven feeling inside your heart, it will cause you to lose her. Even if she did something....she wouldn't be wrong.
I was in you same situation but I opted to focus on myself. I lost my ex to a friend. I regret not choosing her. I would give anything to undo what I decided but I can't. If I were you, I would spend every waking moment enjoying the relationship from such a committed and devoted girl. Here is your chance to actually be happy but you will let what people say get in the way. Learn to forgive because no one is perfect in this world. And you would want the same forgiveness when you make that mistake as well. If you do lose this girl, there will be someone ready to take her away from you and it will be the same people who tell you that they are suspicious of her.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (19 March 2013): To be fair man. It sounds like she has been messing about with this guy. Just the whole thing is very dodgy sounding. The way she told him everything about your relationship, and spoke to him about sexual things, that's not something you do when you're giving a massage of all things, people get turned on! And the way you say they interacted, making little comments to each other. It sounds to me like something has happened between them (From your explanation anyway).
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