A
male
age
18-21,
anonymous
writes:Dear Sir or Ma'am:I need interpersonal relations advice about how to be a good sport and fit in with the Navy midshipmen in my ROTC program. They are hazing me in what I consider a mostly harmless and somewhat humorous way, but I secretly am sort of getting a little bummed out about it and just wish there was a way I could be more accepted in the group.For background, I am a 19M and I am Marine cadet in ROTC. I will owe the Corps a term of service after I graduate college in exchange for scholarships and financial aid during my undergraduate course of study. I will also be commissioned as a Marine officer once I complete officer candidate training.I was assigned to a Navy ROTC unit because there is a history of the Marines being a part of the Navy even though we are now an independent service branch. So, wannabe “jarheads” like me train with the wannabe “squids.” We do military science classes together, leadership training, service projects, fitness competitions, self-defense and combat instruction, and some military drills. I am not the only Marine cadet but I am the only first year Marine cadet from my school in the program.I should add that the ROTC program is on the campus of a neighboring school that has a partnership with our school. So that makes me a “crosstown” student. So, I don’t really know or go to school with any of the other people in my unit. I love the ROTC program. The instructors are great. All our organized events are hard core and exciting. I feel like I am challenged but treated well.There is, however, a group of midshipmen who started an optional “fitness club.” It is an unofficial group of about 20 midshipmen and me. I am the only Marine cadet who signed up. The plan is to meet every weekday morning at 6:00AM and do whatever combination of calisthenics and running the ranking midshipman in teh group dreams up that day. From the beginning, they have hazed and teased me about being a Marine cadet since they are all Navy. The have called me all the fun names Navy personnel call Marines which I would expect and which is just a normal rivalry and tradition. When I show up wearing a Marine Corps t-shirt, tank, or sweatshirt (which I always do) I am ordered to remove it so they don’t “have to look at it.” Even though I am not like some fitness model, I am sort of cocky and confident so I don’t mind going shirtless. It does get cold as crap running outdoors in winter weather. That one layer of cover can make a difference. They always offer me Navy gear to wear, but I refuse. It is a battle of wills. I think they might lose respect for me if I gave in to be honest.I am very competitive and I tend to be in the lead pack of the group when running and I end up with the best time about a third of the time. I am usually near the top on repetitions on things like pullups, crunches, and pushups. Whenever I am not number one, my defeat is openly celebrated. My attitude and bragging when I do prevail has something to do with it and I admit I have made jokes about how soft the Navy has it. I might have even used the phrase "cream puffs." So, I have sort of brought some of this on myself.As for hazing, every day we convene the ranking cadet will order me to do extra laps, or rope climbs, or pullups, or jump rope, or just random other things the others don’t do with a goal of tiring me out to the point of failure while everyone watches. It other words, their cool down is watching me do more of something. About half the group gives me some encouragement until the others pressure them not to and about half the group taunts and talks trash. I guess it is entertaining for them and it is not like the exercise will do anything but make me stronger. It is not anything dangerous or evil like the hazing that hurts people. Nobody is caning me with a bamboo stick or tripping me when I run or abusive stuff like that.My strategy right now is to be a good sport. I never complain. I just do it and try my guts out until I am exhausted or they get bored. I sort of feel heroic like I am sticking up for the Marines even though I am not a real Marine yet and it doesn’t make a difference on anything in reality. One thing that is annoying is that I never seem to get a text or call when our session is cancelled (which is not often). I just show up and I am alone wondering where everyone is. When I mention it there are just laughs and phony apologies. It me 40 minutes and four bucks commute round trip to show up for nothing. It is just annoying getting up early, getting ready, and then being stood up.While I never say anything, deep down I wish I was part of the group and not an outsider. It sounds so pathetic to say that or even type that. I don’t want to be a pussy and say anything to anyone. I think that would be weak, but deep down I do wish I was more accepted and part of the group. I want to be very clear I do not think there is anything sexual or racial about any of this. We are a diverse group. I am white straight male but I don't get any vibes this is about that. If anything, the two openly gay midshipmen tend to be less obnoxious than many others. The senior midshipman happens to be black but I can vouch for him that outside of hazing the crap out of me he is one of the most decent guys and totally respected by everyone. There are three female midshipmen in our group and they seem to enjoy trash talking me just as much as the dudes. I honestly think it is Navy versus Marine rivalry gone wild with me on the short end of the stick. I am not sure if there is a good strategy for dealing with the situation or if I should just suck it up. Should I just “enjoy” the attention and take it as some sadistic compliment? Or, should I just stop showing up? Participation is voluntary as the club is not an official part of the ROTC program. I would sincerely appreciate positive and constructive advice on how to adapt and overcome and be a good sport but possibly get some positive feedback now and then.Read more: http://www.advicenators.com/qview.php?q=667517#ixzz7MsxCrV00
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2022): Dear Sirs:I sincerely thank you both for your very clear cut direct advice. I was not expecting such a strong reaction. I was not seeing this the way you do but you both had the same powerful advice. At first I did not like what I read and was thinking maybe I did not explain it well. But I guess some of it sank in and if I am really honest if they even liked me a little they would not waste my time and keep me in the dark about cancellations. I admit running shirtless in winter is kind of a stupid way to get people to like or respect you and I will not miss that part. I know you were not being critical of me in anything but a constructive way, but I do feel foolish. I fooled myself thinking I could make them like or respect me if I just kept trying to be a good sport. I don't know why it mattered to me so much.Bottom line: I will stop attending the extra "fitness club" sessions and just stick to official ROTC training. I admit I never thought about risk of injuries or health consequences or how it might jeopardize my scholarship or future in the Corps or beyond. I appreciate the reality check and am glad you made me think about that aspect.You are right I did not tell anyone in authority and just wanted to solve it on my own. I did not tell my mom or grandparents so as not to worry them that I was getting "picked on" by anyone. My dad would have been the person to ask but I think in a twisted way I was trying to persevere because he was always my hero and I thought he might be proud of me looking down seeing how tough I was in the face of adversity.I laughed about the part getting "soft" from working out with midshipmen. This is something my dad would have said I think. I did talk to some non-ROTC friends at my school who told me I was nuts but I kept telling they did not understand or get it. I guess I was the one without perspective. As for officially reporting my experience, I do not want to do that. I am willing to forgive them for being jerks or not having the courage to stand up for me when others were being jerks. I also do not think it would serve me to generate that kind of controversy in the unit. Also, it was my own damn fault for putting myself in that situation and not walking away from it like I should have because of my ego and wanting everyone to like me. Maybe I am wrong, but taking it to that level does not feel right to me.Again, thank you both for your candid advice. I feel like I am wiser as a result of your feedback. Semper fi.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2022): Typo correction:
"[They're] goal is to break you, and render you physically incapable."
"[Your] youth and inexperience has [placed] you in a potentially dangerous situation; [yet] you feel the need to prove something."
"Young-men (and young-women) have dropped-dead on football fields and on basketball courts; because [they've] pushed themselves too far."
"Once you've disabled yourself trying to prove what they'll never allow [you] to prove, then what?"
P.S.
You're a wasp in a hornet's nest. They want to send you back broken.
You are not going to fit-in, because they are pushing you beyond the limits to make you fail. Failure will have a devastating affect on your morale, and your self-esteem. You may not only fail their hazing-program; but you may also fail your ROTC training. It could have a cascading-effect. I suspect you've kept all this from your parents, and the ROTC officers, college officials, and your Commander.
I am 100% certain, your program would not approve of this outside program you're in. You are jeopardizing your scholarship as well! If you didn't run this outside program through your scholarship official first; you could get kicked off your program. College ROTC is a government-sponsored program; and may take exception to unauthorized outside-affiliations with unrecognized groups and programs that conflict with your training, and the rules and stipulations of your scholarship program.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2022): Fitting-in should not be the motivation behind anything. Your ambition to succeed is fine. You have to take several things into account. Hazing isn't always just physical assault, it's also mental-degradation and psychological-abuse. Hazing is illegal even in the active Armed Forces. Discipline and training under your military-training program by your ROTC training officers, are in accordance to military codes and regulations.
I disagree that the head midshipman is such a great guy. Too much physical and mental stress can strain your heart, and tear your muscles. If you notice after a workout, you see a grayish or dark tinge in your urine; that means your muscle-tissue is being destroyed. If you see blood, go to the emergency room immediately! You shouldn't experience dizziness, heart palpitations, or cramps. If you pass-out, you were pushed too far. That should be reported. They goal is to break you and render you physically incapable. They are a bunch of monsters in disguise.
This is a volunteer program and not sponsored by the ROTC, and it is at another school location. You are being abused, and your need to fit-in is making you feel obliged to allow it in order to prove something. You youth and inexperience has place you in a potentially dangerous situation; but you feel the need to prove something. They will simply keep raising the bar!
You could disable yourself in the process; and miss-out on your opportunity to serve our country, plus you may permanently disable yourself. I don't agree with you on many accounts, having served in the military myself. I know abuse when I hear it, see it, or experience it. You are not just being hazed; these guys are going beyond the rules, and breaking the law. You are foolishly taking it all as some rite of passage; it is anything but that. They are abusing you, and testing what it takes to break you.
You've fooled yourself into thinking you're proving something, but they are pushing you beyond everyone else; and that is a dead giveaway, that you are not liked. The more you succeed, the less you are liked. Some people take rivalry to extremes, and they could kill you in the process. You keep saying it's not that bad. Then why are you here, and why is your post so long? Unless you suspect something isn't right, but your male-ego and pride won't let you admit this is too much for you. You'll be no good to yourself, or your country; if you are physically-disabled at only 18!!! Young men have dropped-dead on football field and on basketball courts because they pushed themselves too far. They were otherwise, perfectly healthy; but the body has its limitations. If you hit that one limitation, it could be all over!!!
You should participate only in activities or programs sponsored and regulated under your ROTC program. Outside organizations that are not recognized under your scholarship program may cause you to lose your ROTC scholarship. If you disable yourself, that's an instant discharge from the program.
I think you've made a bad-choice; and no matter how hard you try, they will always keep raising the bar, and insulting you as a future Marine. Trash talk is harmless; but this goes way beyond that! They pretend to be cool after the abuse; to keep you from reporting it. They think you're a dummy and a sucker. My advice is to get out of it; while you're still healthy and strong.
Your ego, and a need to be accepted, unwisely tells you that you can take it. Once you've disabled yourself trying to prove what they'll never allow to prove, then what? You are a Marine, but not a fool! You are not officially a Marine; but you are now a fledgling representative of the corps.
Save yourself for the proper and vigorous training of your ROTC program; and the military-instituted training ahead of you on your way to gaining your commission. What you're in now is unnecessary; and could ruin all the chances for your future. You are our future, and your country needs you. Don't throw it all away on a bunch of rotten could-be criminals! They are not what our military needs! You have a promising future ahead of you. Please don't ruin it!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2022): If it's not part of the official programme I don't know why you don't just drop it and leave it to them.
You feel as an outsider and you are technically an outsider.
It's not a necessary part of the programme so if you don't enjoy it, then just leave.
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A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice +, writes (8 March 2022):
 Hazing is never appropriate. Document and report. Working out with midshipmen will just make you soft. You need a better group.
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