A
male
age
26-29,
anonymous
writes:I have created a really messed up situation with my regional sales manager at work. We both did wrong but now I am stuck and not sure how to untangle it all without damaging my future. Even though I resent some things that have happened I am also not interested in causing problems for her or my company if it can be avoided.I am 28M (Josh) and a field sales representative for past three years. I am still one of the youngest people with a territory my size and my growth and retention numbers are consistently higher than most. I work with buyers for other companies, so building strong personal relationships is important and my buyers seem to love me a lot and I work hard for them.The person who hired me is a 38F (Vickie) and she is the youngest regional manager in our company and consistently in the top 5 people in that category companywide. She gets major recognition annually at a company event year after year. She is also incredibly sexy, very flirtatious, and wicked smart. She is also born closer. So the problem is we have been having a sexual affair since the day I interviewed. We are both single but it is obviously totally unprofessional. For three years now we spend 48 hours in a hotel room twice a month when she visits my territory. We spend 30 minutes going over my sales numbers and projections. We maybe do 6 hours of calls on major clients. The rest of the time it is relentless sex with her in charge. No romance. Just a sex marathon. I could try and blame her and say she seduced me or whatever but I have always been a more than eager participant so I am just as much at fault. To be honest I found it exciting and I am gym rat when not working at least partly to keep her happy with me. For whatever reason I crave her feedback on my sexual performance just as much as my job performance (which is a running joke between us). I think I would have been hired anyway but it did not hurt she was into me and I consented to her advances. Even if I had someone else as my manager or we never had a side relationship, I feel I have proven myself on my merits with my growth and retention numbers. The one thing you could call favoritism was when a senior field representative leaves because we are in a hiring freeze my boss gets to re-assign the book of existing business to existing rep’s and I have gotten far more than my fair share of this business. It is easy money as long you take care of those existing clients. I estimate this favoritism has increased my income about 25 percent. As far as the company is concerned though, I make them a lot of money taking care of those buyers, making them happy, and doing my job well.Here is the dilemma. I have met someone else more my age (Julia) I genuinely like at my gym. She is wonderful, we have so much in common, she is a far better person than I am but makes me want to be better. We have only had one official date but I want to get more serious. There is a lot of sexual tension even just flirting at the gym but she has been very clear she is not easy and is not going to be a “victim” of my charm,” which makes me respect her more. All the normal things I do to impress a girl she sees through and laughs at but does not seem to hold my obvious fails against me. My feelings about her are really growing. Obviously, there is no way I can get serious about Julia if I am having an ongoing sexual affair with Vickie. I had a direct conversation with my boss, however, and she said there was no reason to stop our sexual activities and when I said I was not “comfortable” with it anymore she was very aggressive and threatened to reassign the clients. I gave in to the normal weekend of sex. If anything, she was more demanding than ever. Being blackmailed took the joy out of it, but I felt desperate to keep her happy at least for now. For the first time though I felt like the shameless man-whore I realize I have been the whole time.If I complain and go over her head, I would be in just as much trouble. It would also be a lie to say it was anything but consensual until this last time. Plus she is a star inside our company and I am just like a baby star at best. She is more valuable to the company for PR purposes (as a female leader) and because she honestly is extremely good at her job. I am far more replaceable no matter how well I have done so far. She has allies who would help her crush me. If I quit and just walk away, I lose an incredible income which I cannot believe I am earning at my age and I am proud of what I have done in my territory. I am debt free and no one dependent on me so if I had to start over I would not be in crisis. It just sucks. Even if I had not met someone, this sexual relationship with my boss could not go on forever. If I do get myself out of this situation, how much should I share about all this with my new person (assuming she is willing to pursue a more serious relationship than our one date)? I am also worried I may be less impressive with my current income level. I am not saying she is all about money and in fact she probably is not but I guess a lot of my ego is tied to my income at this point. I am not saying I cannot rebuild and do well at something else it is just discouraging to think about it.Thank you for your help. Josh.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (2 August 2022): Report From Josh (original poster):Well it is over. I refused to have sex with Vickie on her visit this time. She actually got a little violent, slapped the crap out of me in the parking lot, tried to hit me with an umbrella, tried to pull me into the hotel by my necktie, and ripped my dress shirt. She cracked the back window of my car with landscaping brick as I drove away. I got the "F" out of there before someone called the police. I am able to defend myself but the guy always gets arrested in those situations. She made some very scary threats not only to take my extra business away but to get me fired and destroy my reputation. I don't think it was acutal withdrawal from sex with me that made her lose it (grins), but I think it was mostly anger I was not obeying and she thought she had me whipped and control is her thing. So before she could do anything more I called our mutual superior and turned myself for having an inappropriate realtionship and benefitting from it with the commissions. I agreed to resign voluntarily and he arranged a severance deal I signed that night (with enough to pay for my car window as well without mentioning it). It was pretty decent considering I was expecting nothing. I was given option of new territory with a re-location but turned it down. Signed a non-disclosure. Interestingly, I got a job working for one of my customers. It is less money and not in sales, but not a lot less money and I get to stay where I want which means maybe I have a chance with Julia at some point. I am scared to tell her all this but I will have to if we get serious. As some of you predicted, almost all of my colleagues knew we were having an affair and hating on me behind my back and now are kind of celebrating my downfall on social media. They are also excited my book of business will be divided up among them because of the hiring freeze. I have not one single friend inside the company who has called to check on me. In a somewhat funny twist, before I blocked her, I got an enraged call from Vickie and apparently I caused her an unintended problem as she was also having an affair with the actual superior I turned myself into and he did not know about Vickie and I having a sexual affair. It could be that is why he made me a deal so quickly and quietly so no one would ask a lot of questions about her that would maybe somehow work it all back on him. You cannot make this stuff up. I am not feeling as cocky and special or on top of the world, but I have a lot less stress and I think things will work out. Just going to start over and try to do things right this time. I want to ask Julia out again but for all my confidence I am kind of nervous. Thank you for the advice and encouragement on here and for those of you who said some really hard things about me, I probably had that coming. Peace to one and all. Josh.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 July 2022): "You brought this on yourself and should have seen it coming." bla bla bla
"She is also incredibly sexy, very flirtatious, and wicked smart"
What 25 year old guy doesn't sleep with her? And she's boss - win win.
Blame guy was never offered rock star like sex in his 20s and unattached.
I'm the one with Carry Grant like boss. I jumped into his bed, I was singe, 22 and unattached. Finally a guy better looking than me. He (42) was married but said it was sexless, and I gave him something else she never gave.
But I let the affair go on after I got married. Don't do as I did. At all cost end it. Save some messages from her.
She's in a worse position than you.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 July 2022): I would record her "performance evaluations" and blackmail her back. A naked picture of her would help, maybe you have one already. I'm no stranger to boss fucking. I feel your situation. I had a boss who looked like Cary Grant 40 years ago. Both married. I wanted to end it too. The janitors ended it. They did their Thur night cleaning on Wed night because of a holiday. Think of the worse, and it's probably worse than that. "Honey, we need to talk." Lucky I got a pass my Mr.
Get caught, it worked for me.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (20 July 2022): You brought this on yourself and should have seen it coming.
I wonder if you are as smart as you shout. You keep on about being special and clever, but clever people don't make such obvious and pathetic mistakes. Nor do they need to go running to strangers for advice about such things. Refusing to get entangled with your boss sexually was the obvious solution.
Nobody was needed to tell you that, but a child of ten could have. Now think about this - clever one. You ought to be able to work out the solution to this easy peasy. It is your life at stake not ours.
It seems to me that you are looking to justify why you carry on with things. The dear poor little me stuff, I have to do as my boss tells me stuff, all leads to sexual ecstasy,
so don't make out that you are being black mailed into some terrible negative thing that has no benefits to you.
How much of your success is due to your work talents though, and how much due to being manipulated and naive?
You see your boss knew you were naive, she figured that out.
Smart people are never naive.
You seem to want to have the best of all worlds.
Smart people can earn a lot of money without all this hassle
and without selling their soul. Why not prove that you really are smart by making your own way in the world without this nonsense? If you prefer to have help and take the easy way then you must accept the bad bits that go with it.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (20 July 2022): All you can do is change job. Sadly this is the mess that comes from sleeping with a colleague. Suggest you use someone other than your boss for the reference if another employer asks for one.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (19 July 2022): I 14m and dont know what to tell you about the work stuff. I will tell you that you have totally made some wrong moves. I totally understand about temptation but it is theoretically possible not to give in to it. Not gonna say more because I am not perfect either. The other people on here are really smart and you should listen to them. I just want to make one point. This girl you say you like, Julia. Do not hurt her dude. You need to sort your stuff out first and only get serious with her after you are not in the middle of your current dumpster fire. If she is like you say, she does not care about money, but she might care if you lied to her or cheated on her or handled your business in a dishonest way. If you want to be worthy of her then do the right thing. That may include laying it out for her at some point and let her know you made some mistakes in your past and she deserves to know before going to far with you. Think about it dude.
Your friend, Calvin (alias)
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (19 July 2022): EDIT:
I meant to say:
"They can see how well you seem to get along; and fellow employees are well-aware when favoritism [is at play]. [They know it] when they see it, or suspect it."
"Let's see if this real, or just [a] phase."
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (19 July 2022): Well, Josh, this is what comes of thinking with your smaller-head. It doesn't have a brain in it, it acts on instinct. This is a life-lesson, and a turning-point in your life. Living by your lusts and selfishness builds a lofty but fleeting treasure. It's tied to pleasure, without substance; hence it infiltrates your life, and overtakes (or blights) your credibility.
You've mixed pleasure with business; and you're messing around with a very intelligent and manipulative-woman; who happens to hold some "limited" power over the fate of your career. If you were in your earlier 20's, I could see where you might have overlooked many of these probabilities now coming to light. You are, after all, in the sales profession. You know that manipulating people through their emotions is how you've succeeded thus far. What is a good sales-pitch? It's telling your client exactly what they want to hear! Right?!! You can't offer anyone anything they can't find elsewhere. You've used your powers of charm and persuasion to reel-in your most trusting and loyal clients; and you perform every ritual and spell you can to keep them. You also have to deliver. Words are cheap! If you're as good as you claim you are; you'd be able to rebuild your port folio of clients. You didn't succeed entirely on your own merits as you've claimed; you took a shortcut, and took advantage of opportunity. It has backfired.
She is human, and although she can takeback what she gave you; she has to learn that sometimes blackmail fails. Both your oversized egos and senses of entitlement put you in this spot. She won't admit it, but she has also formed an emotional-attachment for you over time; she is only pretending that it is only physical. You possess qualities and ambitions she considers a good match. She considers her own body as much of a reward as anything else she gives you. Why else would she threaten your future and career based on just having sex with you? There is more to it than she is letting-on. You already know this; but I'm just writing it down for you and others to see it in print. I like to clearly make a point; by no means am I condescending to your intelligence. You have to face the facts. You've asked for advice, and here it is.
I would call her bluff. You have everything to lose, but you also claim to be a very talented salesman; so now you are forced to compensate for where you were given an unfair-advantage. You don't want to lose it; but you didn't earn all of it by yourself. It was given to you as your reward, but with strings attached. You now want to ditch her after you've taken full-advantage of all the benefits she has provided you; while trying to convince us of how conscientious you are at the moment. Where was all this sanctimony when you were racking-up extra clients, climbing the ladder, and making the big bucks? She gave you a push! Maybe hoping you'd develop real feelings in the process. Maybe?
An old biblical-saying says "you'll reap what you sow!" You've sown into an arrangement of sexual-pleasure in exchange for other benefits; but you forgot that for women, sex isn't just sex. For awhile, this might be the case; but by nature, they are not void of their femininity, natural-instincts, wants, and needs. Though men seem to have the capability to suppress feelings and temporarily mute our need to emotionally connect with an intimate partner. The keyword is "temporarily!" Just because a person consents to casual-sex, doesn't mean that in-time they won't want more. The longer such arrangements go-on, and the more that is invested; somebody is likely to catch feelings. It doesn't matter which gender; both are human, and both have feelings. You are now reaping the fruits of your labors. You get the fruit of whatever kind of seeds you sow. You took advantage of her power; and now that power can be turned against you. You are by no means a victim. You are complicit in a mutual scheme to gain money, power, and advantage. You knew exactly what you were doing; but you didn't foresee the final outcome. Maybe you did, but entitlement, greed, and an immediate need for self-gratification got the better of you. So here we are, my friend! You just didn't realize how skillful a player she is. You thought you were on equal-standing. I think your penis and your ego has deceived you.
It would look surprisingly suspicious that you took such a sudden tumble in your client-base; because all changes in business are noticeable and require an explanation. You don't go from A to Z without everything in the middle. Being in the corporate-world myself, I know that any change in the performance of a star-employee is an indication of something drastically wrong. Investigation doesn't stop with the employee, it goes up the chain of command. How and why did she reassign all of these customers? Don't you think for one minute that those in higher places aren't aware of what's going-on between you two! They remain silent and look the other way as long as you're both focused on the bottom-line. Yes, you may take a hit as far as the income; but you now have to regain your credibility and earn your rewards on the basis of an unmatchable work-ethic. Not through your frat boy tactics. I'm purposely being tough on you, because I'm speaking to you man to man; you are not a boy anymore. I have only good-intentions, and you are by no means stupid!
Call her bluff. End it! Let the chips fall where they may. Get a parttime job to fill-in for any losses. She will revert to her professional and more ethical interrelationship; when she is forced to face the fact that business is business, and your personal nonsense is private. Nothing effects the bottom-line, or you're both history! Trust me, the powers that be are not oblivious of the fact there is something going on between you two; and they are milking it for whatever it's worth. The minute something goes wrong, they will hold all accountable for their own individual participation and fault; and they will work from the top down. I know what I'm talking about, I'm not pulling this out of my buttocks. They know what is likely to happen when you put a healthy young-man together with a healthy young-woman. There is possible sexual-attraction. They've been there and have done that. They have to be aware, because of the liabilities involved. In fact, they anticipate based on both your personalities and how you interact when unaware you're being watched. There are also jealous gossips who will expose you. They can see how well you seem to get along; and employees are well-aware when favoritism when they see it, or suspect it. Sexual-attraction between two people is very hard to hide. People will suspect it, if it isn't there. It's only a matter time.
In the meantime, while you're still performing at the top-level; start searching for another gig. Jobs are at a premium these days; and some employers are offering unbelievable incentives. Don't let the greed for money blind or shutdown your common sense. Remember that what you work hard for is yours, and it can't be taken-away. If you take shortcuts or take advantage of other people; you will likely lose your ill-gotten gains. There is justice and payback due those who loss to the benefits of your opportunism. You knew there was a lot to be gained by sleeping with the boss. It crossed your mined, you're not naive. You rode that wave, and now you're facing the consequences. Like many men, some of us don't want to change; until we've met someone we think we could love. Well, life sometimes seems unfair; but it also compensates us for our losses. It's a cycle that keeps things fair and balanced.
Everybody who works hard deserves a chance at a big break; but sometimes people come along, and divert your opportunities using favoritism or nepotism. This doesn't mean you are completely at a loss; it only means opportunity is postponed. It's a loss if you give-up; not if you stay focused, and persevere in spite of your setbacks.
You are not in a relationship with that young-lady at the gym yet. You have yet to know where that will go; so don't get yourself all hyped-up and ready to change your ways for all the wrong reasons. Change for yourself, because innately we all know the difference between right and wrong. You didn't work for all the advantages and benefits you've received. Your character alone should have taken account of that. Whatever you lose now for righteousness sake, will all be regained, and then some. You may not believe in God, but whether you do or not; He intervenes when He sees something in a person He feels is good, and He will turn the tables to fix you. You have a heart after all, and you have gifts that didn't really need unfair-advantage to succeed. Rely on your God-given gifts, and let her takeback what she gave for the sake of power or control over you. I know just from what you've posted, you've got it in you to earn it all back. This is an attack of conscience, motivated by the attraction to a woman. Let's see if this real, or just phase.
If that young-lady is what you believe her to be, make sure you treat her right; and don't use her like you've used your boss. It went both ways. You're both equally guilty. However, she has abused her authority and position; and engaged her power of manipulation. You've admitted you workout to stay fit; using your own body as bait. For her part in this, she will reap what she has sown.
She deserves some benefit of the doubt. She doesn't get to tell her side. You knew she was attracted to you, and you went for it. What she did was not entirely out of selfishness; she also wanted to see you succeed. Part of it also came from a good place. For what she did to help and benefit you; that will be her saving graces. God is also understanding and merciful.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (19 July 2022): Your boss has no power over you unless you give it to her. She has shown her cards. She KNOWS what you hold dear and wants to believe that she will take it away from you if you do not continue to have sex with her. You cannot be sure that she will try it because it can cost her a lot. But for now, she is using it because she can “read” you. If you take the clients/money out of the equation what else has she got that she could use against you?
You MUST notify the HR, because that’s another thing she may try and use against you. This is a long shot, but you never know. I am glad that MeToo has changed some things (not nearly enough!) for women, but there are women who are abusing this. You made an error in judgement when you started hooking up with her, but what she is doing is SEXUAL harassment and blackmail. You need to react first, and you need to do it fast.
You need to start looking for another job. Even if you do succeed and break it off with her, she will not let it slide. It’s a power thing. Ego thing. You will always have to be in alert at work. This is not something you want in your life.
When I said you need to do it fast, I was considering that now there’s this girl at your gym you like who does not suffer fools. So, you need to act quickly and get your affairs in order!
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (19 July 2022):
 Well, didn't you just screw the pooch?!
My advice is this, LOOK for a new job or position where you do NOT work directly with her.
Sure you could take it to HR, and I WOULD, IF she keeps "blackmailing" you for sex.
Her threat of taking away clients, do you have that in a text or email? If not, SEE if you can get her to SAY it over text/email. That way YOU have something to hold over HER head if she makes good of her threats.
If you talk to HR will you get in trouble too? Yes, you could but what she is doing is what women have been fighting for, for decades. Work sexual harassment, blackmail is just NOT professional. AT ALL. She sounds like she is on a powertrip. Kinda gross.
You NEED to (pardon my English) GROW a set and tell her you are done with the sex with her., that you have met someone that you want to date and you WANT to be a faithful partner. That the sex will stop - you don't ASK her, you TELL her.
I would NOT quit the job until you have found something better. There are WITHOUT doubt competitors to your current company and a GOOD if not GREAT, sales person is ALWAYS a hot commodity.
So in short,
1. LOOK and see what else is out there job-wise.
2. see what opportunities there are IN your company to make a lateral move to a different team.
3. GET her to put her threats/blackmail in writing - be it email or text. Or if it is legal in your state, frigging record her say that vile stuff! then go to HR and go from there.
4. don't start anything SEXUAL with the NEW lady until you are disentangled from your boss. She doesn't deserve to be tangled up in this clusterfuck you have going on with your boss.
"For the first time though I felt like the shameless man-whore I realize I have been the whole time."
Well, yeah. You are. You have the power to say no. Consent is a thing, ya know? Even for dudes!
You say your ego is tied to your income, which for most people is true - but when your income is also tied up to you having to "whore" yourself out to your boss, is the money REALLY worth it?
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