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age
26-29,
anonymous
writes: Hi. I'm struggling with accepting that my grandma and grandpa don't agree with gay marriage and parenting.Their reasoning is that marriage is a religious thing (though I pointed out that many non-religious people get married) and it would be unnatural for two men to raise a child. I asked them if they'd feel the same if it was a man and his brother-in-law because the mother had died, they said "sort of". They also said that they think similar of two lesbians raising a child but it's more in a woman's nature to be able to raise a boy or a girl. I said that they could have opposite sex influences in the form of grandmas/grandpas/aunts/uncles/etc. and they said yes but it's not natural for 2 people of the same sex to raise a child.When asked my opinion, I basically said that I do think people should be allowed to say that they won't do a religious wedding for someone because it goes against their beliefs, but I don't think gay marriage should be illegal. I also said that I don't care who raises a child, as long as they are good parents and that I would hate a family member of mine unable to have children just because of the gender of who they love.I understand that a lot of this is because it was very taboo in their era, and I try to ignore the discriminatory opinions/ignorance of strangers, but I find this difficult to accept because they're family and my sister is bi-curious (only I know at the moment) and we're both anxious that she may have a girlfriend long-term and not be able to take her to see our grandma and grandpa (all of our cousins' partners have been welcomed into our grandparents' house).To some, this may seem silly and they may just say " cross that bridge when you get to it" or "people have their opinions, deal with it" and I get that but, because it will have a direct effect on my family, it's difficult for my sister and I to accept their views without struggling.Any ideas how we can deal with and come to terms with this?
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused  +, writes (28 March 2014):
 WiseOwle is right... it's not magic that clicks... I sense your sister is afraid to admit she's a lesbian so she's hedging her bets. Gawd I hate that we even in the 21st century CARE what one adult does with another adult... ugh.
I think you are worried about nothing to be honest...your grandparents can disagree with you all they want but I doubt they will "abandon" their granddaughter due to her sexual orientation. they may not like it, they may not understand it, they may not gush over her partner(s) but as long as your sister behaves like an adult and her behavior deserves (i.e. she EARNS) the respect all people should be given I will bet your grandparents will dance at her wedding should she marry another woman.
It's amazing what love can fix.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2014): It sounds like your sister hasn't quite accepted her orientation herself yet. I am gay. Nothing "suddenly clicked."
It isn't some experiment you do, and wait for the results to come in. You are either attracted to the same sex; or you aren't. You may be attracted to both men and women. It isn't something that comes over you like a disease. Those are ignorant myths that drive gay people crazy!
What choice do you have but to cross that bridge when you get to it?
You can't make your grandparents accept homosexuality. Your gay sister? That's a reality that hits home, and something they have to come to terms with on their own. You're going by what they say about homosexuality, they can't stop it from happening. It's in just about every family on earth.
They're just expressing their moral values and their stance. It's not written in stone. If they're that hard and cold, why even bother with them? People who can reject their own family, aren't truly loving people. I think you're misunderstanding them.
You're being very protective of your sister out of love. Every gay person needs a sibling like you.
If they love her, they'll realize she is the same person they have always known. Only thing different, is she may be lesbian. "Bi-curious" is not an orientation. It is not the onset of queer-symptoms that infects you and becomes full-blown gay. She's been with someone five months; and she knows if she is gay or not. She may only be fearful of how it is accepted, and not confirming that she is.
Your grandparents have no control over your sister's sexual orientation.
If they won't let her in their house;then it is something she will have to learn to live with. I think you are both taking them too literally. It's one thing to express how you feel about something when it's a mere concept. It's different when you are facing it in your own family. People do come around; when they find they have to contend with the truth that homosexuality exists in the family. Like it or not. Changing gets harder when we get older; but we can't fight the truth.
After-all, they're a couple of old people; and wouldn't want to be put out to pasture because they're useless. Nor put in a retirement home, and forgotten like many families do. They may become sickly or disabled. Who would they turn to? Family first. Fate would have it, that your sister may be the only one they can turn to.
My gosh, what's she got to worry about? She's got a little fighter like you on her side. I don't think they're going to be able to stand up to you! Look how well you're holding up to us. Stand by her like you are now. Even if they don't come around immediately; you'll get them thinking.
Read what I've said. Tisha1 "IS" cool and amazing. You have to understand the context of the message. No offense is intended. She made very valid points. You may not like the delivery, but don't dismiss the valuable message.
What most families do learn in time about their gay members is this. You are not your sexual-orientation, it is only a part of who you are. You can dislike it, but you cannot hate it out of existence. I thought my own father would be ashamed and disappointed I was gay. I built up the worst case scenarios before coming-out to him. He was loving and had only been waiting for me to trust him enough to free myself. He was firm in his beliefs, but he was just as firm about loving his children. Oh, he wouldn't march in parades. In all my existence, I don't recall him saying anything against gay people. So maybe he did know.
You can cutoff family members for the sake of proving your stance and intolerance, but you suffer; because it haunts you that you are estranged from someone you love. They remain gay all the same, and you have shut them out for the sake of hatred. It doesn't pave you way to heaven either.
There is no passage in any Bible that tells people to shutout or shun their family members. Gay isn't a choice. Rejecting family is.
Continue advocating for your sister as you have here. She has you to stand by her; while they come around. I truly believe they will. It may take time, and they may not fully understand; but be patient.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questiontisha I don't understand why you feel you need to be kind of rude with the 'are you looking for some affirmation of being cool and amazing'.My sister is 20. She's been with a girl for 5 months and she's been dating another girl for nearly 8 months.I've written in my posts that may not be clear: we do NOT want to change or adapt their views at all because we respect their opinions but we want them to still accept my sister even if they disagree with her sexuality. I don't see why that is wrong. My sister says she already thinks she's bisexual but she's waiting for something to click where she knows she's bisexual and not bi-curious.Thank you all though
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (28 March 2014):
My brother is gay. In the 70s it was NOT cool to be gay.. my grandparents never knew my brother was gay... they kept asking him "when are you getting married" and my brother kept saying "when I meet the right girl" which wasn't really a lie since gay marriage was UNHEARD of back then. My grandparents died in their 90s believing my brother had just never met the right girl.
now all the kids are experimenting with their sexuality which is a good thing.. but sexuality is private (at least is should be) straights don't "come out" they just are. why can't gays and bisexuals just be too?
IF your sister is "bicurious" then she's not even sure what's going on in her own world yet. As a bi-sexual woman who is married to a man, having forsaken all others I think you are seeking to fix trouble where trouble does not exist.
I sense you want your grandparents to change their POV just to make you feel positive about your ability to persuade folks to your side..... it's not going to happen.. grandparents have earned the right to be respected and revered, especially if they did their double duty and raised or helped raise you.
WHY is it so important to you that your grandparents believe the same thing you do? Agreeing to disagree is part of being an adult.
Personally, I would respect their right to believe what they want. I would not fight a battle that does not need fighting and if your bi-curious sister later on decides to partner full time and seriously with another woman (no need to drag casual partners to meet grandma and grandpa just to prove a point) you then just say "we respect your right to believe what you want but we would like you to respect our rights too" and as mature adults (because by then you will all be OVER 21) it should happen.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2014): Your grandparents are entitled to their beliefs and opinions in their own home, if no place else.
I am gay and officially out to only my friends, select co-workers, and siblings. I came out to my father before anyone else. He laughed and said he already knew. He knows all his children. My mother past away when I was a boy. I didn't come out to the remainder of the extended-family; because it's none of their business, and I know they already know. I've never taken a wife.
I move freely about and bring my partners to family gatherings regardless of opinion. I've had no open protest or negative opinion thrown my way. My family is very religious; and quite openly-opinionated. I guess they accept life as it is. They love and accept me, as I am.
That doesn't change their right to disapprove, and to ask me to leave their property. The law, reality, and modern societal evolution limits their right to impose their out-dated values on me. Only God knows and decides who goes to hell. Only a judge appointed by the judicial system, and a chosen jury of my peers, will decide my fate and punishment; should I break the law. If my rights are challenged; I will have my day in court.
That being said; I've never forced my opinions or beliefs down anyone's throat, and will not allow them to force theirs on me. I don't have to believe what they believe. I am open and direct. I will fervently disagree with injustice, and will not tolerate mistreatment or insults. This is the fabric we're all made of amongst my kin.
Your grandparents may be resistant to gay marriage and parenting; or what they will accept. However, the seed has been planted. They are stubborn, because they have been conditioned for many many years. Therefore; they aren't so easily swayed. They do not have to accept your views if they do not wish to. It doesn't make them bad; only misinformed or old-school.
Morally, they must respect your partners; and show the same courtesy, kindness, and hospitality that they'd show any other person that they invite into their home.
Of course, in a perfect world; we'd like everyone to accept us and see things as we do. In the U.S., the battle is slowly being won to accept gay-marriages; however, changing opinion comes with time and exposure. People are resistant to change and fear what they don't understand. It is part of human-nature to take a self-righteous stance. Even when we are profoundly in the wrong.
Education and evolution/revolution forces change. Old opinions die and fade away like any other dinosaur. We no longer burn witches, own slaves, and women are no longer in servitude to men. Laws do not tolerate discrimination in the free world.
People have made change in leaps and bounds. I have personally observed the nonchalance of heterosexual parents in there regard to mingling with same-sex parents, and there is no longer the awkwardness or fish-eyed stares of the past. People see us as parents, and fellow-citizens. Period. Laws have to remind people of the rights of others; and our Constitution was written in protection of human-rights and religious freedom. People still tend to forget.
I openly advocate for all rights. Including religious expression. I don't lose sight that I do have spiritual
beliefs and connections. It keeps me grounded and well-balanced.
People don't seem to realize the sin in hatred and intolerance; but judgement of others and selective use of the scripture to support their personal-beliefs cancels out the impact of their argument. By the shear hypocrisy of it. Christians eat shrimp, fornicate, divorce, and break too many Old Testament rules to preach to me. However; when I cross a threshold, I abide by the rules of the house. I must have tolerance as well. When they enter my home, they will accept whatever I say or do; or feel free to leave.
Tolerance goes two-ways. It may take time, or they may never agree with gay-marriage or parenting as part of their belief-system. The reality of it remains, in spite of their ignorance. You must love them and respect them; and respect their home when you are a guest.
You are an adult now, and you can express your feelings when you are offended by what they say. They are human, and when they meet someone whom they happen to like. It is very difficult to impose ill-feelings against someone who isn't deserving of maltreatment. Give them some credit for the fact that they still love you. Other things may take more time.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (28 March 2014):
 So you are trying to figure out how to get your grandparents to 'accept' a situation that isn't actually something that you or your sister are going through.
So, you want us to work out for you the arguments but no one in your family has need for it just yet?
Why not wait until this is actually an issue? Are you looking for some sort of affirmation of being all sorts of cool and amazing?
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female
reader, celtic_tiger  +, writes (28 March 2014):
 I think you are worrying too much too soon.
You don't say how old your sister is, but she could turn out to be 100% straight in a couple of years - and all this stress and worry you are going through could be for nothing.
Equally, if she is bi-curious/lesbian, then SHE needs to face the issue of your Grandparents opinions then, but not before.
It may be that faced with this situation their reaction is nothing like what you are fearing now.
Ultimately this is not about YOU coming to terms or dealing with your Grandparents attitude. If you are not careful you could actually make this worse by stirring up a situation which may not exist in reality - creating an air of conflict where there is none.
You should never assume how people may react to any given situation. Assuming is the worst thing as you always come up with the most horrific situations possible, thus causing more stress, pain and anguish in the process.
If they are somewhat accepting of gay people, then it is a start, but they may never accept gay marriage or children from gay relationships. That could be something you have to accept too.
This is all about compromise. You do not seem willing to do that - they have to accept everything or else you wont accept them? Do you see the problem there? It is all about them giving way to your views, not meeting in the middle and tolerating each others viewpoints.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks. I don't want to "convert" them because then it's taking away their voice and, whether I agree with someone or not, I don't like the idea of doing that. However, I do hope there's a way my sister will be accepted if she is bisexual.
They are somewhat accepting of gay people, but not gay marriage or gay parenting and don't want anyone in our family to be gay.
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (28 March 2014):
 I think the biggest thing in one of these discussions is NOT about "winning the argument" but about hearing each other out.
And about respecting that not everyone HAS the same view or ideas.
Personally I have never understood why people's sexual preference is such a huge deal (unless someone is into kids, animals or dead people - all groups that can not consent) So what if Ellen DeGeneres is gay and married a gorgeous woman? Or Neal Patrick Harris a handsome husband? But we are a different generation then your grand parents. And I think the more we view is as "normal" to sooner it will be normal.
BUT.... that doesn't mean you have to try and convince your grandparents that they HAVE to think of it as normal.
I don't know what faith your grandparents have, but they really should read up on the new Pope who seems to be pretty OK with CHRISTIANS being gay. As he put it he doesn't think being gay INTERFERE with a person's spirituality. I'm not a Catholic or even a Christian, but I think the Pope will do many GOOD things for Christians.
And I agree with Aunty Bim Bim - there is no need for OVERT dismay of sexuality in front of the family, no matter what your sexual preference is.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (28 March 2014):
I found a resource for you here http://pflag.co.uk :)
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (28 March 2014):
Yes, I have an idea! You say they are your grandparents, so they are 40+ years older than you? So do a research paper on the social mores of that era, when they were coming of age.
It may help you come to understand them and find the vocabulary and social constructs that have influenced your life and theirs.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 March 2014): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm sorry if you misunderstood my post; I completely understand that their era has a lot to do with what they think and I respect that they have different opinions, I just find it hard to accept when my sister has had a girlfriend and wants to feel accepted in what was our home for 5 years.
If anything, I'd be completely okay with staying in a separate room to my partner if that's what it took because I wouldn't consider it anything major unless I had to live there - then I'd struggle with it, but I don't find it unreasonable if they find accepting it challenging.
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female
reader, celtic_tiger +, writes (27 March 2014):
You have to remember that even in your grandparents lifetimes it was still illegal to be homosexual.
You are still very young, and have never known anything different, so to you it is perfectly normal to see same sex relationships etc. Imagine how your Grandparents would react to something that when they were your age or older, could have landed them in prison, now being considered perfectly ok? When they were your age NO ONE would have been in a same sex relationship. It is something very difficult to get used to, especially if you are religious as well.
I am not saying that their opinions are correct, but you have to understand that they come from a different generation, where different views and laws were in place. People often find it very difficult to change life long opinions on subjects. This can be anything from politics, sex, marriage, immigration etc etc etc.... and to the individual they are all very important views.
Back then it was also considered bad to have sex before marriage and women who did so were considered to be sluts. Even worse to have a child out of wedlock - when girls were regularly sent away to have their babies which were then given up for adoption, so that no-one would know and their "pure" reputations would be intact, thus allowing them to marry without fear of judgement. The invention of the contraceptive pill allowed women a freedom never before experienced and began to change the perception of sexual relationships outside of marriage.
My Uncle is gay. He is nearly 60, and he came out later in life. My grandparents were very shocked and struggled with it, but on the whole were pretty understanding on the surface and to his face. In private they were very disappointed. They felt they had failed as parents. They had to be allowed to come to terms with it in their own time, it is almost a mourning process for the son they though they had, who turned out to be someone different. These are not viewpoints or beliefs that you can force on anyone else. In the end they did allow his partner to stay and come and visit, but they ALWAYS insisted on separate bedrooms, allowing them to sleep together under their roof was one step to far for them. And because it is their house, it was their choice. My Uncle had to respect that, because they were TRYING to accept his choices as well. It was a compromise.
You expect them to respect your views on this, yet you refuse to see it from their point of view either.
Families are strange things, and often situations they wouldn't accept in anyone else will be tolerated because of the love and family connections. It isn't easy, but you have to work together, without blaming them for their views.
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A
female
reader, Aunty BimBim  +, writes (27 March 2014):
 Its amazing how accepting the older generation can be when they learn their grandchildren are gay .... my mother has two gay grandchildren and her sister has one.
There were no major announcements, no 'coming outs' no big discussions. I think, as a parent, the people your sister needs to be focussing on are her parents, and would suggest your sister contact PFLAG in the UK before she raises the issue with them.
At this stage your sister is merely bi curious, and yes, she may end up with a girlfriend at some stage in the future, or she might end up with a boyfriend. Just don't go rushing introducing people to family too quickly, it takes older people a little longer to adjust to new situations, keep the displays of affection private for now, no need for overt displays of sexuality in front of the oldies, whether homo or hetero sexual, keep cool, keep calm and keep it real.
If you and your sister approach this with an "OMG THEY ARE SO GOING TO BAN US/YOU/EVERYBODY from their HOUSE .... then those are the vibes you will be carrying with you, and these are the vibes that will be reacted to.
Stay calm. It may not happen!
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