A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:For several months my husband’s and my best friend has had all sorts of problems and we stubbornly stood by him doing everything we can to help him. The only positive development is that he had left a horrible marriage behind, everything else sucks. He ignores his financial problems, lack of job, family responsibilities (he has a 6 year old daughter) and cuts off everybody who tries to help him in a constructive manner, friend or family. We are among the last who won’t give up on him.Few months ago he started exhibiting problems, including fear of loneliness. When he left his wife, he (conveniently) fell madly in love with a woman whom he met online 4 months ago and who turned out to be a manipulator and a gold-digger. After having carefully observed, we reached the conclusion that she is nothing more than a dangerous consequence of his illness (whatever it may be). She is isolating him from everybody (including his family). She makes all the important decisions and is doing everything she can to get a hold of his finances. Off course, there is always an explanation – she wants to help him so that he can “rest”. For your information, he’s been out of work for the past THREE years and has been living off savings mostly.What kind of a person is she? She’s is her late thirties, vulgar (verbally and physically) with a dead-end job (as soon as our friend gets on his feet, she plans to leave that job to devote herself to him… in her own words). Most importantly she LEFT HER TWO SONS (6 and 8) so that she can start a new life with our friend. She memorizes all the details she hears about everything and everybody and repeats them as if she were a part of our lives forever. She talks about our families as if she had actually met OUR parents etc. She lies and schemes and becomes aggressive the moment she learns that we talked to someone else or that there is something she previously didn’t know. I don’t know if she actually believes the lies she tells or if she is just trying to manipulate, but it is SCARY. Our friend has some money, but he’s father and mother are well off. She’s even reaching into their pockets (!), because she wants “the best for our friend”.We are all worried sick. Our friend has been so out of it, that he needed to be hospitalized. When he gets out of the mental institution, we need to do something; I just do not know what! His parents are old. His mother is petrified and father just goes along with everything this horrible woman says in order to get into his son’s good graces. Other friends who have openly expressed their concerns regarding this woman and the overall wellbeing of our friend were immediately cut off by him. He won’t return their calls, let alone see them.We really care for him and want to help… what can we do?
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 February 2015): Ultimately, it's his decision whether she goes or stays. It's nice you and your husband are looking out for his best interests, were money is concerned. Please be careful not to over-step your responsibilities. If you're not going to offer him the around-the-clock custodial-care he may require when he's "out-of-it," and not fully functioning to care for himself; you may be pushing the one person willing to do so out of his life.
I did suggest that you inform his parents where "their" money is going. It was always intended for his financial security. Now they can protect their money; and he can spend "his" as he pleases. The point was never to financially benefit or compensate HER! It's his business, not yours; if he does insist on spending his money on his girlfriend.
No matter how you put it, most of your concern comes from not liking her. Evidenced by calling her vulgar, a liar, and whatever. I'm sure she has a few choice words for you and your husband as well. Well...lets leave hubby out of this, and keep it focused on you. He may just be going along. He has to agree to keep the peace; because he has to live with you. You're his wife.
People sometimes embellish their posts to slant opinions their way; but I never accept only one side of a story anyway. In all fairness; I give the party not allowed to defend themselves some benefit of the doubt. I think Midnight Shadow made a lot of valid points you carefully danced around; and you should carefully consider all the advice that was given here. You are biased in your opinion, and dislike the woman; therefore, you will refuse to see any good in her. That doesn't mean it isn't there; nor does it mean she doesn't really care for him.
Your concern about his money could come from both a good place, and a bad place. From the very start I sensed a little envy in the mix, and a lot of hostility toward his chosen mate. Even some snobbery. It's up to him to confront her about lying. Is it not he who would be the victim of it?
Unless he is totally incompetent, you cannot think or make decisions for him. Legally or morally!
Sometimes good-intentions back-fire; when there is underlying bigotry or prejudice. If this is at all the case; then the question is, will he benefit or suffer from your help?
A
female
reader, Midnight Shadow  +, writes (20 February 2015):
 I'm glad you seem to have come round to your "correct place" in his life because you were doing more than friends should - kind of butting in to his relationship. The fact here is that, even though he's vilnerable right now, he is still competent (and it would be unfair to treat him as though he isn't, just because of his mental challenges) and wants her in his life at this particular time.
She may not be a great person in certain areas (lying and minor stalking) but, assuming he's not rich, she hasn't had access to loads of money, has been working her own job, has been taking care of him in some ways, has no idea how long he'll take to recover before she can quit her job because he's working at a high paid job and, quite honestly, a lot of people wouldn't habg around for that long. I'd even venture to say she probably cares about him - but, like you, she's been doing too much. She probably lied sometimes (not always, by any means) because she felt the hostility everyone has been aiming at her. I think you should try to ease off and give her a little credit for what she has done and that's give your friend companionship through what's bound to be his darkest time.
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 February 2015): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you again for your answers.We finally talked to his parents last night. His mother called us (so that was a good thing) and his father joined us later. Surprisingly enough he asked us what we thought of the whole situation and then we told him. It turned out that he too has caught the girlfriend lying and no longer thinks that by financing THEM he’s doing the right thing for his son. Even though we cannot really help our friend (and I agree that what we think is best may not be best for him), we can do our best not to be his enablers. When he gets out, if he still wants to be/live with her he’ll have to do so in the real world. And we accept his decision. The same goes for her. She will have to accept the real HIM with all his problems, including financial ones. I’m OK now, not because his father decided to stop giving them money, but because we did what we could, we expressed our opinions when asked.It really is his circus and his monkeys…Thanks again for all the valuable input!
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reader, Midnight Shadow +, writes (19 February 2015):
This *is* his decision - you all just don't like it, but are accepting it. He's not mentally incompetent - he *knows* what she's doing and, right now, that's what he wants. If he really wants to live on his own, mental illness or not, he'll do it - regardless of what she says. Either way, when he recovers, he'll be able to fix any mistakes he's made. Until then, leave him to make his own decisions because he's *allowing* her to influence him. He doesn't feel the way you do, so leave it. I know you just want to help, but it's *his* life and you're almost as bad as she is if you keep trying to intervene and control his life for him.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (19 February 2015):
 OP you are not getting the main issue
this is NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
YOU are investing a lot of time and energy on something that is NOT YOUR CIRCUS they are NOT YOUR MONKEYS
keep the focus on yourself... our goal is to HELP YOU
your goal is to FIX and help him and YOU can't have it both ways.
so do you want to help him?
or do you want us to help you?
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 February 2015): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDear Midnight Shadow,Thank you for taking the time to answer again. The thing is, right now we do not know what he really wants. Last time we spoke, he was looking for an apartment to live ON HIS OWN. The moment he was hospitalized the girlfriend started spinning the story how he had just told her to leave her husband (which she did the moment he was committed) and that they will move in together. He might have done that in the 12 hours between our meeting and the moment that he was committed, but we can’t know for sure until we speak to him again. His parents can’t speak to him directly. The doctors are keeping them informed about his general wellbeing (he started eating, taking meds, going to therapy).What if she just bullying him right now? Using the opportunity to find an apartment for which his father will pay and when he gets out, weak as he is right now, he’ll find it difficult to tell her that she had rushed him into something he didn’t want in the first place. He didn’t want to be the “bad guy“ even when he was functional, let alone now when he’s out of it.You said it too that he is ill. If he wants this arrangement once he’s out (I’m not talking about once he’s old self… maybe he’ll never be his old self… maybe he’ll stay like this forever and maybe it’s not a bad thing if he starts feeling content), off course we’ll accept it. It this “meantime” that is dangerous because he is vulnerable.We don’t do things for him, as opposed to the girlfriend. But we do worry and try to motivate him to do the things himself – find a therapist, get a divorce lawyer, find an apartment, take his daughter to school…. Not nice, I know. But real. She on the other hand is interested in helping him with what suits her – finding a lawyer and an apartment. We’ll talk to the parents and just be patient… and yes, we we’ll accept his decision whatever it may be.
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reader, Midnight Shadow +, writes (19 February 2015):
You haven't accepted the situation because youre still bashing her. Like I said, he *is* consciously keeping her there. He may have a mental illness, but it's still his choice to have her there, she isn't forcing him to. Sure, she seems manipulative, but he *knows* and *wants* her there. Leave them be! I know it sucks from an outsider's point of view, but he *could* get rid of her if he wanted to - just because you all want him to doesn't mean he should. If he recovers and decides she's no good, he'll get rid of her - she can't keep him in this mental state without his consent because he's not mentally incompetent.
This will be hard for you all to accept, but you are all babying him and, by trying to protect him, you (like she) are doing everything for him. He won't recover while you're all trying to get involved - that's not support; it's control, regardless of your intentions.
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 February 2015): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you for your answers!Honeypie, I do think as well that she has some serious issues and that he doesn't want to see them, or is incapable to do so right now. The only reason why I don’t feel for her in this situation tool is because she’s acting like a predator.WiseOwlE, I think it would be great if they put the money in a trust. I was thinking of offering a short-term solution – asking the parents to give him their time, moral and emotional support but NOT financial. He has enough money, for now, to live in a small apartment and meet his own basic needs. I have a small hope that if she sees that she’ll get nothing from them (but they really have to stick to it), that she will eventually go away on her own.However, I must say that I don’t agree with the idea that it is ok to let a sociopath take care of someone just because he’s momentarily incapable of doing so himself. It can screw him up even more. She wants him to stay sick; she needs him to be that way. She knows that otherwise he wouldn’t want to be with her. He has delusions about “coincidences” (I’m not talking about faith in God, spirituality… I’m talking about seeing link between unconnected events). She pretends that she agrees with him – I’ve seen it with my own eyes – and does her best to find new ones. Off course, there’s a possibility that she suffers from a similar disorder herself… But sociopaths quickly recognize how they can use their preys’ weaknesses, don’t they?Btw, unlike her he didn’t leave his kid, just the wife. He sees her regularly, he’s just unable to take care of her like he used to. But, your answer made me think about something very important.Before he was hospitalized (literally a day before), he was looking for an apartment in our neighborhood and we visited one together. He was with his daughter and the new girlfriend was not there (her daughter is the only person that can keep her away). Anyway, he was looking for a SMALL apartment just for himself and his daughter on visiting days. He talked in singular, not plural! He didn’t mention moving in with her. Not even in the far future. When he was hospitalized the day after, the girlfriend called us and asked which apartment he had seen and started telling everyone that they were moving in together, because she had left her husband that morning. (Supposedly our friend told her to do so…how convenient) Off course she sold that story to his father who couldn’t wait to get back in his son’s good graces (That’s why I’ll have problem convincing him not to pay for an expensive big apartment.)So, we have no idea what he really wants as no one talks to him directly, not even her. She can’t even talk to the doctors (but she presents the situation in such manner that we may think that she does talk to them). It’s the father who gives her the info on his mental state. The problem is that once he gets out he may feel cornered because she left his husband. On the other hand, I know that she did not take care of him so far, unless “I’ll let you take me to a restaurant” counts for cooking. (I’m not saying that she’s obliged to clean or cook for him).Well, it is awful on so many levels to feel helpless and just watch him; he’s like a brother to us.But if anything you guys, not only helped me accept the situation the way it is, you did give me some more hope! Thank you again!
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2015): Unless he is legally ruled mentally-incompetent, and totally incapable of making his own decisions; this woman will remain a part of his life. You're forgetting something very important; she IS taking care of him, if he isn't taking care of himself. She will not allow herself to live in uncomfortable conditions. So, if she takes care of his affairs; she is also taking care of him. Otherwise; he'd be blowing the money in other ways.
Please do, inform him parents of her presence in his life and possible manipulation. Lay-out all the details and concerns you and your husband have. His parents can then place money in a trust; and have it doled out to him in small increments according to his needs. It's his/their money, and it is meant to be spent. If he and she lives in the same house; who do you think buys food, cleans, cooks, and pays bills if he isn't doing it himself? Living with a person with mental-health issues isn't always easy. She has chosen to do it.
Seriously consider if taking her out of the picture and leaving him alone is the lesser of evils. If he has been so ill he has been institutionalized; perhaps her "gold-digging" is merely compensation for putting up with him after everyone else, but you and your husband, have "given-up on him." From your description, he's your friend; but he's no prize. He and she both gave-up their children to be together. So they're perfect for each other.
She may be vulgar and what have you, but she has to continue living with him in order to have any control of his finances. He's a grown man, and it's his money. So let them be.
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reader, Honeypie +, writes (18 February 2015):
 I have to agree with SVC.
I can only imagine how hard it is to watch someone "screw" themselves over, specially if he is not doing so well mentally and emotionally.
And yes, talk to his mom (and if the Dad is any influence, talk to him too).
My guess is this woman he is seeing have some serious issues herself and your FRIEND is ignoring them as well as his own.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2015): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDear Midnight Shadow,
I hear you.
I'll try just this one last thing, talking to his parents and then I'll wait.
I'm glad that you're putting up a fight. Life's hard and sometimes it seems that it is nothing but a chain of losses. But I still hope that things can get better.
I hope that your friend knows that you're there for him. I hope our friend knows that too.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2015): What exactly is his mental illness. Judging by what you wrote you have no idea, I suspect you don't even know if heis for sure suffering with mental illness. The fact that he is with a woman who you don't find suitable, or you find a gold digger, doesn't mean he is mentally ill and requires institution. Was he ever diagnosed, or it's you and a couple other families desided he is off? The fact tha he doesn't work also doesn't qualifies him as insane. Irish I could have enough finances notto work for 3 whole years!! Your friend probably is very well off if he can afford this luxury life style. About a a woman: the story with her 2 children's unclear. Who those kids are with? Was she a single mother? Is there a father in a picture, does he take careof them? Are there grandparents involved? Unless we know details its very hard to judge the woman, who according to you just dropped her children who she raised for 8 years.About her making desicions for your friend. My now husband when I met him was a total mess with his finances though he was making well into 100sK a year. He lived in a horrible appartment, had debts, drove expensive car, and no money in a bank, no savings. When we started dating seriously, I started pointing it out to him what he does with his finances. We discussed, and little by little I took over. A year later we bought a big house, we had some money in a bank, nice furniture and could welcome our first child. Until now I still take care of our finances because my husband is totally incapable and on top of that he doesn't want to do this. Your friend is a grown man, he needs to deside whether he wants her to do it, but not you or the rest of your friends.. The things you described when she followed him everywhere. That's a bit creepy, I agree. But, may be she feels that you guys are against her, she must feel it, I am sure. You sound like its more than just a dislike going here.,May be that why she follows him around trying to prevent you guys even more trashing her for him?By the ways she is the one who keeps a steady job, maybe it's a dead end job, but she works, not like your friend who stopped working long before he met her. What I see now, is a woman who is In a new relationship, may be just may be she is in love with him. She sees a nice guy, who is a rarity these days, and being in her late 30s, seeing I am sure many no good candidates for a relationship, hopes that may he is the one despite a very serious fact that he doesn't work. She is probably aware that he didn't come from a poor family, and is a capable man to eventually find a job. The fact that she is planing not to work: I can't say for sure why she would share something so incriminating with you guys, but considering her age and working as you said dead end job, I would probably too, thinking about the future would wish for a day that if I meet someone who can effortlessly support me, to stay home and take care of my family, instead of having no career and making miserable money. I get it, you don't like her, none of you do, but you can't make desisions for your friend regarding how he lives his life whether he works or not, or how he spends his leisure time. Or atvthispoint,mwhat kindof a girlfriend he has. The woman has no excess to his parents money, and parents need to be smart enough not to give her any. 4 months is way too early to thik of her as a family. She can act like she wants to be a part of his every day life, but it's way too early for his parents to accept her as a manger of a family. Right now, frankly, I don't really see what harm she is doing. She is not on drugs,,not addict of any sort, she works, and takes care of your friend in her own a bit over nurturing way.
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reader, Midnight Shadow +, writes (18 February 2015):
What I'm saying is that you *can't* buy him more time. I have mental illnesses of my own to battle, but that's just it; it's our *own* battle and who we let into our lives *is* still a conscious choice.
I had a friend like yours who was like a brother to me. We were in our mid-teens and he lets his problems and dodgy friends take over his life and be bad influences. He ended up homeless and is have had a breakdown if I'd have continued trying to help him recover. He dropped out of college for them and didn't have any other qualifications to hold any weight when/if he decides someday to pull himself out of the hole he created.
In a way, your friend is luckier than my friend because he's older, was responsible and capable previously (meaning it will be a bit easier to revert back once he's well and truly recovering), he has past experience of work, has senses to come back to (my friend didn't mature enough to have any before he let it and them control him), etc.
Whilst both of our friends will need to start from scratch, your friend has things going for him, has experiences with real life and, when he snaps out of it, that's when he needs your support - right now, there's nothing you can do.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2015): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDear So_Very_Confused ,
I loved your watchword! It made me laugh so hard :)
Thanks for the advice to talk to his parents. We're on the same page with his mother, but I've been kind of avoiding his father.
His father had left the family after over a decade of living a double life (another woman, another set of kids). He was dead to my friend until the whole mess started. The only real connection they have now is financial one, a the father won't stop giving him money.
But, I'll give it a try.
As the new girlfriend is watching the father closely, I'm sure she'ill find out about our meeting and my opinion (that he shouldn't pay the rent of their new apartment... she's looking for a big one in a nice neighborhood)... chance I'll have to take.
Thank you again! And the circus and monkeys will become my new mantra ;)
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (18 February 2015):
YOU can't do anything.
He is an adult and unless he is mentally incompetent due to mental defect or a stroke or something else, there is not much you can do but let him make his own mistakes.
the hardest thing we do as friends is stand by and watch our friends fail.
make sure that your friend's parents do not give the couple ANY assistance. this protects them and his child.
And you can practice my watchword "not my circus, not my monkeys"
you can care about him all you want.
but IF you intervene when he has not asked for help you may damage the friendship.
Make sure his parents and his child are safe from this mess if you can advise them, but as to what to do about her and him, absent yourself from their relationship totally.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2015): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDear Midnight Shadow,
thank you for your answer.
I agree that he's the one running away and letting her do whatever she wants.
However, he's not of sound mind. Really. This new woman is just consequence of his, hopefully temporary, mental illness. I'm afraid that by the time his therapy starts working, he will have changed his life (for the worse) forever.
We'd just like to buy him some more time to recover. Until he does, we need to deal with her. He used to be responsible, organized, hardworking... He used to enjoy life and have fun. He's unhappy when he's with her, he just doesn't want to be alone.
Unlike her, he sees his daughter regularly. He's just not capable of taking care of her in the long run. The woman in question has left her two sons as if she had never had them. Her own children are not real enough for her, why should she care about his kid?
In order to support him at this difficult time, the only tactics we have is to be nice with her and try to get as much alone time as we can with him (practically impossible).
The last time he came for a visit, she drove to the part of town we live (and it's not near!) and called him - "hey I just happen to be in the neighborhood". He should have said something along the lines of "sorry honey, I really need to be with my friends for a while, but I'll see you later", but how many of us would have really done that?
However, we did tell him that we think that she did it on purpose and that it is not OK.
She pulled the same stunt with other friends and that was scary. He went to spend a week with his high school friend at their family house, and she drove 400 miles to "surprise them". What a bad surprise it was. Now they are not speaking to those friends. And she doesn't mind. On the contrary. She's normal. It's everybody else's fault.
I know that he's in the center of the problem, but he's really incapable of understanding and dealing with the situation.
Is there anything else we can do to buy him some more time to heal?
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reader, Midnight Shadow +, writes (18 February 2015):
"For several months my husband’s and my best friend has had all sorts of problems and we stubbornly stood by him doing everything we can to help him. The only positive development is that he had left a horrible marriage behind, everything else sucks. He ignores his financial problems, lack of job, family responsibilities (he has a 6 year old daughter) and cuts off everybody who tries to help him in a constructive manner, friend or family. We are among the last who won’t give up on him", then you say "she's isolating him from everybody" but he's don't that himself.
He needs professional therapy and you're wasting your time, honestly, if he won't do it. He doesn't *want* to help himself.
He's living off of savings, won't get a job, won't deal with the responsibilities of being a father, he's *allowing* her to do anything and everything she wants because he won't bother to do anything.
You're making this all about her:
- She wants to leave her job when he has one (she'll be waiting a while by the sounds of it), but your friend left his job and hasn't gone to get one in THREE YEARS,
- She left her kids, but your friend left his kid,
He's being hospitalised but, like I said, *he* needs to get the professional therapy after his release and *he* needs to do what he wants; he's an adult who allows her to take advantage of his situation.
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