A
female
age
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anonymous
writes:I need some male answere to understand what is going on or going wrong in our relationship. I try to make it simple. Here are the facts:We are married for a long time,still in love, have lots of hot sex (never boring!!!!), I am still very attractive(he tells me all the time) ,we are supportive and respectfull of each other...so overall things are going quite well. Of course we have our moments and little problems,too. But here is the thing:Almost every time I turn my back to the house(wich is between once and four times a week) he goes to watch porn on the computer. A few years ago this was an issue between us. I told him how deeply it hurts me and asked him what I can do to help him not to need doing it. He claimed everything is o.k. and it has nothing to do with me, our relationship or sexlife. He slowed down with it for a little while. We never talked about it again, because it always ended up getting very emotional and frustrating. He says he loves me so much, but how can he do something he knows hurts me a lot? He is trying to hide it from me, he is lying to me(and he lies about a few other things, too)The worst thing is that we can not talk about it. After all the years we live with each other, know each other. I simply don't know what to do. It's all inside of me and eating away on my love to him. So please to especially the male readers, how should or shouln't I handle this?Thanks for your time to read this and answere this!!!!
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female
reader, person12345  +, writes (17 January 2012):
 OP I HIGHLY recommend you read this porn series. It's a little long, but excellent if you're questioning this whole porn thing.
http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/04/12/why-porn-isnt-cool-part-1/
There is no content to the last post other than "men like it, tough," which is obviously sexist, paternalistic, and not actually any kind of argument. I will say free porn isn't really free and all those free sites are run by the top porn producers. The vast majority of amateur couple videos are paid performers. The "free amateur porn" boom has increased profits for the industry in general by 40%.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 January 2012): I am very very thankfull to all of you for putting your thoughts, knowledge and opinion to my question. I am really touched by how seriousely, open and honest topics get discussed on this site. Thanks for all the advice.
I probably should be more open minded to the male nature of liking porn. I have to work on trusting my husband. Maybe he is generaly satisfied and happy with our sexlife. But to me it feels a little bit like that;
you cook a filling delicious meal with dessert, always trying to alternate the recipe slightly to keep it interesting and tasty. And still, if you don't look, he sneaks to the fridge and helps himself, as if your cooking and efforts were not good enough. And that is what hurts.
And even if he would be an expert in hiding this, the next time we enjoy a meal together I can tell by the way he eats, that he had a visit to the fridge before. And that's were my problem comes in. I have to find a way to handle this emotionally, not to be offended or hurt by this.
But your answers,comments and thoughts are very helpfull. You all gave me stuff to cew on.
Thanks again
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (15 January 2012): Then what is your solution? Because I can only assume you're talking about commercially produced porn which is like any other mass produced product cheap, crap and artificial. Amateur, homemade and self-produced stuff is becoming far more popular and common. Especially because it's free, natural and is usually couples or a person on their own doing it for real sexual gratification.
I've always worked under the assumption that you view all porn as bad, if you're talking about the industry then yeah, that's pretty shitty. But if you're talking about all porn being bad and negative then I'm afraid you're just wrong.
If one person can change their view in order to stop using porn then the other has to at least find things as a substitute that they find acceptable or it's as Miamine said, go find a guy that doesn't use it. It's not our problem that more of us are okay with it than aren't or that half of us would gladly lie about it, we see nothing wrong with that. So unless there is some kind of compromise from both of them then this is really not going to work out well as a solution. You can't expect to train someone to dislike something that according to your statistics the vast majority of people have no problem with then again maybe you can't train to someone to accept it either, but why is it that one has to choose and doesn't get a say in the issue and the other gets to dominate and control based on their wishes?
It's like the issue of abortion in Ireland, women here can't have one, even though the majority of women would like to be able to, seeing as men have a say they tip it over the anti-abortion side. Those women then don't have that choice, which is what you propose, get rid of that choice altogether and force/coerce people to dislike it. It's better to have the choice and the freedom to choose and not have things like that imposed on you. If your statistics are accurate then there are going to be a hell of a lot more insecure and disappointed emotional blackmailers out there trying their damnedest to impose their morals on their boyfriend before realizing it's futile.
Porn is not all abused actors being paid to be raped. It can be real couples having sex and getting off at the idea of others watching, it can be a girl on her own in her room doing it to get off on the same idea. It's not all bad.
I still don't understand how girls get jealous of pornstars when if we're not masturbating to them then we'll be taking our girlfriends magazines into the bathroom and masturbating to pictures of Jessica Alba in a bikini instead. But that's okay? She's hotter than any porn actress and much easier to become emotionally and sexually attached to than some random girl in a porn.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (14 January 2012):
There is no debate, pornography in it's current form (rather than inherently) is bad for women and bad for relationships, in almost all circumstances. The only debate is whether users can accept the facts or be in denial. It's like having a debate about whether sweat shops are exploitative or smoking causes lung cancer. The statistics are abundantly clear, the studies are abundantly clear, the anecdotal evidence is abundantly clear, the porn producers themselves are abundantly clear that they intend to show violence against women (they directly say it to reporters and as a marketing tactic), the porn videos themselves are abundantly clear that they are made to degrade women, the only people who seem to be unaware of the impact of pornography are the users. That's the same as with any addictive substance though. Because really among anyone who actually studies pornography (the psychologists, sociologists, even divorce lawyers) there is very little debate.
It's always very easy for users to brush off the problems porn can cause in a relationship, "oh just find someone else." Given that 70% of men use pornography and 70% of them lie about their use to some extent and more than 60% of women want a man who doesn't use pornography, there's a pretty big problem of supply. You've got at least 60% of women all wanting the same 25-30% of men, and even then how do they know they have one of those men and not one of the 49% of men who lie about it? So telling every woman who wants a porn-free relationship to just dump their long-term partners in favor of someone who already doesn't use is basically saying if you don't like porn, you're going to be alone and in for a lot of heartbreak. To me that's not a solution at all.
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female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (14 January 2012):
 If it's eating away at your love for him, it's time for you to walk away and end the relationship.I'm not going to discuss the rights and wrongs around pornography, it only ends in a debate that never seems to end. Instead, lets deal with your relationship and the problems you have around porn.It is your problem, not his. As far as I know in your country (Canada) pornography is legal to buy, and it's legal to act in and produce. He's not doing anything illegal, instead he's taking part in activity that most of the men in the world share (and some women too)Now pornography is not a reflection on your sex life, your beauty or how much he loves you. It's mostly a masturbation aid, which is done in private solely to have a quick orgasm. It's not made to make you feel inferior or inadequate, just like the Hollywood superstars aren't supposed to make you hate yourself. They are there to fill an untapped need/desire and that's why they create very large industries. Men like porn.You've asked him to give up. He cannot or will not, but pornography is likely to be in his life for a long time. Again very common. He only uses pornography when you are not in the house. Sounds respectful, he likes an activity, you hate it. He only indulges when you are not around. Your sex life is good and doesn't suffer even though he uses pornography. Relationships are supposed to be about sharing and compromises. Hiding porn is a compromise. Demanding that somebody never use pornography again even if they are on an island stranded and on their own... nope, only one person wins in such a solution.Most men use pornography, most men enjoy it, many men refuse to give it up and the feel under attack when a women demands they change their behaviour. Only a few saintly men in this world will swear that they would never look at pornography or a naked woman ever again. Most men like it, some men aren't bothered, some men use it regularly, some men hate it.Since it's beginning to destroy your relationship and he won't give up, find yourself a porn-free partner, who may be closer to the type of man you want. There is no way in the world to FORCE any man to give up porn. Men in prisons look at porn, men in hospital have porn, men in countries where porn and illegal sex is banned still manage to get porn. You can try and understand why he likes porn and why he finds it interesting. You can keep arguing and nagging and crying to try to make him feel shame, guilt, so he gives it up because you hate it and he doesn't feel he has a choice. You can calmly tell him why you hate porn, how it makes you feel and why you can't continue the relationship with a man who looks at porn.Good luck.. discuss it with him calmly and without judgement. He has the right to have his views, just as you do. But your trying to change his behaviour, he's not asking anything of you right now. Try to find a compromise that works for you both, or walk away before the resentment gets worse.
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A
female
reader, person12345 +, writes (13 January 2012):
Wikipedia and is not peer-reviewed science, nor is a pop psychology novel. Testosterone can fuel a higher sex drive, there is some evidence it can be a cause of aggression, but there is no peer-reviewed science that has been able to show that testosterone or "male-ness" creates even an urge for variety, let alone a need. The only evidence for that is men who say they want to cheat, and therefore if the urge exists it must be an inevitable brute force of nature that can't be overcome like lesser urges such as eating (if there was a sarcasm font that would be written in it).
Further if men NEEDED variety, we would expect to see monogamy to fail in nearly all instances and for men in monogamous relationships to suffer severe mental health problems. This is not the case. In fact, the opposite is true. Married men tend to live longer, report higher levels of happiness, and suffer from fewer mental health problems such as anxiety and depression than single men. Also you do realize that women have testosterone, right?
We'd also expect that if testosterone fueled this need for variety, cheating would be a male only thing, while the reality is women cheat almost equally. We'd also expect cheating to occur simply out of horniness while in most cases cheating occurs because a partner isn't getting an emotional need met (frequently they don't feel appreciated or respected).
Also I find it "odd" that people both argue that porn is no substitute for the real thing, yet provides this "variety" testosterone supposedly fuels a need for. How can it both be a good substitute for sex with other people and simultaneously not be anything like cheating? To clarify, that was a rhetorical question because it's clear those two ideas cannot coexist.
Also I find it fairly horrifying when people say that if someone doesn't like their partner looking, they should ask them to cover their tracks better. No one would be hurt by cheating if cheaters just were better at lying and hiding, but I don't think the general opinion is that cheaters should just get better at hiding. The general opinion seems to be that people shouldn't cheat. So if a partner is doing something that is so hurtful they have to lie and hide it from their partners, it seems like the person should not do that action rather than get better at hiding it.
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A
male
reader, JustHelpinAgain +, writes (13 January 2012):
Hi Anonymous OP. Sorry you are getting so stressed over this. My first comment is that you need to tell your hubby to be more considerate about covering his tracks. If your husband is not over indulging in viewing extremely gross porn, especially with people getting abused or hurt, or worse still, with children, then maybe you should try to destress a bit. What your husband is doing sounds fairly usual. More of a habit than an addiction. Sounds like he is keeping himself good and fit for you. Chill, and enjoy.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 January 2012): "Testosterone does not drive a "need for variety." There is NO such finding in any scientific study (and no, evolutionary psychology is not an actual science)."
Actually person12345 there is plenty of studies and scientific evidence that correlates that.
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Psychology/Sexuality/?view=usa&ci=9780199777921
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_monogamy
I could list them all day, there are literally tonnes and it doesn't just apply to men either.
Now to you OP. I think the key phrase that I saw was this: "The worst thing is that we can not talk about it." What use is talking about it when it will accomplish nothing? You only want to talk about it so you can demand he stops. That's not talking, that's demanding and you then use what some may consider emotional blackmail to make him stop. You're simply not willing to compromise so what's the point? Seriously, you only want to talk so you can make him understand you're hurt and want him to stop. He's heard it all before and he still hasn't stopped so it will do nothing to talk.
The simple explanation is this OP. He thinks it's fine, he likes it and he will never understand why you don't like it, or get hurt by if for that very reason. To him it's not a big deal and it doesn't effect your relationship negatively in any physical sense or how he treats you, the only negative effect is how you feel about it. Your feelings aren't wrong by the way, you can't help how you feel and I'm sure if you could press a button and be okay with it then you probably would, and if you wouldn't like to be able to feel okay about it then that's your problem really.
Try and find a compromise OP. Porn is not about you or your relationship, it's rarely about that and everything else is great so in that sense he has no reason to feel like he's doing something wrong. He's never going to understand why it hurts you, I like porn and will never understand it either but I accept that it does and will not date a girl who has a major issue with it.
Try and reach a compromise, such as getting him to do it less and hide it better. It's very easy to hide your browsing activities on a computer and it's very easy to watch it without your knowledge. As far as lying goes, lying is acceptable if he's trying to protect you which he is.
I will say one thing though OP. You've tried the emotional blackmail thing "If you loved me you wouldn't do it, it hurts me so stop" thing and it was only temporary solution that didn't work, he's most likely always going to go behind your back to watch it because it's something he likes to do. You can't make him stop anymore than he make you like it. So try and find a happy medium.
Maybe even read that book person12345 suggests as it may help you both. but I wouldn't discount trying to understand it better and trying to find ways of being okay with it either OP. It's all well and good trying to make him do what you want in order to make your relationship work but wouldn't it be fair for you to try and do the same in return? Don't buy into this idea that you're right, porn is wrong and you can't change how you feel. We're a very adaptable species OP. I used to literally detest religion, everything about it and anyone who was devoutly religious. It was always a fundamental belief of mine that it has ruined this world and needs to be destroyed, it pained me to think there that many idiots in the world that believe in ghosts. But I then ended up having a really good friend who was devoutly religious (unbeknownst to me) and through my friendship with them and an open mind I altered my view of it and am more tolerant of people who believe in magical zombies.
The question you need to ask yourself is, is it really worth losing your husband just to be right? or is at least trying to alter your view worth giving a shot? Marriages work both ways, don't let anyone tell you your view on porn is wrong but don't let anyone tell you that you can't change that view either. What's most important to you is your happiness and if changing your view on this subject will make you happier then it's worth a shot, is it not? This isn't a battle of wills and domination, this is you wanting to get rid of something that is hurting you. So explore all avenues to achieve that.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 January 2012): I am going to play the devils' advocate here.
I think that if you want him to respect your feelings, then you have to meet him halfway and really try to see things from his point of view.
If every time you find out he has been viewing porn no matter how discreetly, you get upset and reactive, it gets to where you can't talk about this issue because of out of control emotions, then you are not trying to see things from his point of view. How could you, if you're too wrapped up in your own feelings?
your hb has cut back on his porn viewing over the years because he knows it hurts you. To me that shows that he does care for you and love you because he has altered his behavior for no other reason than that you told him it hurts your feelings. his opinion on the 'evils' of porn or lack thereof haven't changed, he still does not agree with your interpretation of what porn-viewing means. clearly it hasn't affected his attraction to you because you say you have a great sex life. but he cut back on his viewing because he knows it hurts your feelings.
But this is not enough for you - you need him to NEVER view porn at all, ever again, not even once. if you need complete 100% compliance from him forever in order to not feel intolerably upset, then you're not meeting him half way instead you're saying that your view and opinion on this porn issue trumps his.
I'm not here to judge whether or not your view on porn is the correct one and his is the wrong one, or vice versa.
I'm just looking at this as a generic point of contention - which is that here is an issue where you have very strong opposing views. So what do you do in a marriage where you have strong polarizing opinions and strong feelings? should one spouse's opinion and feelings trump the other's ? should the spouse who feels more strongly about their position, get to have their way all the time simply because they feel strongly about it? just food for thought.
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A
male
reader, TrancedRhythmEar  +, writes (13 January 2012):
 Sounds like he's dealing with a bit of an addiction. If he's irritated about you bringing it up, lies about it, or hides it... this all implies he is ashamed of his addiction and will not admit it. Counseling or a book could be an option for the both of you. The fact you've supported him and confronted him about it previously speaks greatly of your character. You're patient and willing to work through a tough spot in a relationship. Suggest a solution with him and tell him youll work with him on it. As for watching it with him? I think that will just exacerbate the problem because it will be like you're encouraging his use, even if he is with you sexually while watching it. Having it around is not positive for him, it will enhance his already difficult issues with porn. Good luck.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (13 January 2012):
Testosterone does not drive a "need for variety." There is NO such finding in any scientific study (and no, evolutionary psychology is not an actual science). There was one statistical analysis done on whether the "spread the seed" theory could actually hold water (looking at fertility, probability of random intercourse resulting in pregnancy, etc...) and they found that no, in fact the species would have completely and totally died out if the males were all flitting from female to female constantly.
We all have biological urges we shouldn't act on. Sometimes I'm on the train and I need to pee. That doesn't mean I do it. Sometimes I get the urge to slap someone. That doesn't mean I do it. Just because men have the urge to cheat, visit prostituted women, visit strippers, or/and look at porn doesn't mean it's a free pass to do so just because the urge is there. "Testosterone" is not a get out of jail free card to hurt your partner. Every other biological urge on the planet is routinely overcome. Why is this urge suddenly exempt from ALL other urges on the planet just because men have it more? Porn, as opposed to horniness, cannot be a biological urge, it's really only been around in its current form for 20 years. As late as the 60s barely over half of men had even seen pornography, let alone used it regularly.
Further a higher sex drive and porn are in no way related. A higher sex drive and masturbation, sure. But the two things are not the same. I feel very sad for people who have been so thoroughly brainwashed by porn that they view porn, a corporate product designed for no other purpose than to make money, as a synonym for sex, sexuality, and masturbation. It's like saying McDonalds is a synonym for eating.
Given that porn is a major factor in over half of divorces, given that 15% of users develop a compulsion that interferes with their lives, given that porn has had enough of an impact on many women's self esteem that they've voluntarily had genital mutilation for appearances (not to mention the huge increase in breast augmentation), and the fact that the VAST majority of studies show that porn warps a user's view of women, views of relationships, and decreases satisfaction in relationships, I'm still totally amazed at the level of denial displayed by comments like "it's just porn." It's like saying, "relax, it's just cocaine."
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (13 January 2012): watch it with him, maybe get horny over the guys in it then have sex with your boyfriend but thinking of him of course. try their positions, porn can excite your sex life. i watch porn because my girlfriend has been away for months, she knows it and thinks its funny 'cause im just a guy.
its better than him cheating and that's what he'd do if he had a true lust for other women. in the end you just have to think "its just porn". A quick and easy release for him.
there is a line of how often though, could become addicting. try thinking of it lightly and not attach so much meaning to it. womens bodies are beautiful works of art and watching them in action is awesome haha.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (12 January 2012): The dilemma you have is you don't want him watching porn because it hurts you he is fantasizing sexually about other women yet you don't want him to hide it. If you took away the porn, he'd still be fantasizing about other women sexually, like your friends or women at work...on the street, and he'd still hide it.
You can't take away the DNA and testosterone that drives men sexually to want visuals and variety but you are willing to pretend that's not a fact as long as you don't have the evidence...porn. It's your own catch 22
With the porn, he's hiding less and you have more access to what he fantasizes about. In his mind, it's a harmless non personal outlet to look at women he'll never meet in person so it's the lesser of two evils.
A therapist can't cure that. Only a decrease in his testosterone levels might eliminate that need and they do lower with age.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (12 January 2012):
I always recommend the book The Porn Trap to couples struggling with this if therapy is not an option. It helps both of you understand the other. Him to understand a) why he feels a compulsion to use it despite knowing how it's devastating you and b) just how much it can erode your trust and love. You to understand why his use is not about you or your relationship and why it's not as simple as "if he loved me, wouldn't he stop?" It's really the only book on the market that is aimed at couples.
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