A
male
age
51-59,
*rager6466
writes:Weve known a married couple 10+ years, they are a great couple and really close friends.I feel there is an attachment, not sure whether its emotional, physical-just different to previous friendships.We see each other almost every week, always a laugh and we love their company. There has always been innuendo whenever we get together by me and my friend and our wives never object or seem embaressed.However, in the last year or 2 the innuendo has become more risque, jokes about swinging etc-always laughed off.We always greet each other with a kiss on the lips and we all feel comfortable with this. Both marriages are good and stable,both couples have money and nice houses, so no issues. Me and my wifes sex life is and has akways been great, we both enjoy pushing the boundaries within the confines of our marriage. Cards on the table,if me and my wife had a crystal ball and there was an opportunity to play with our friends without repercussions, we would probably do it in a heartbeat, but without knowing the effect it cld have we prefer to fantasise about it. The above is just giving you some info which may help, the thing that is that is on my mind (not worried) is this.At a party over xmas, we all got together and in my opinion a line may have been crossed and I dont know how to play it with my wife or friend.We were all having a great time-drunk but not paralytic and in control . My friends wife had gone off to dance, I went to get some food, leaving my wife and friend talking. Out of the corner of my eye I saw my friend kiss my wife on tge cheek and then her neck. For my sins, I found myself taken aback but also turned on. I asked my wife the next morning but she has no recollection of it happening. My question is this. Does this kiss mean anything, if it does what should I do? Ignore it as we are all quite tactile with each other or ask my friend his intentions? Me and my wife care about or friends and they care about us .
View related questions:
friend's wife, money, sex life, swinging Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused  +, writes (13 February 2013):
 Trager,
Thank you for the compliment. I know most folks speak negatively of the swinger lifestyle without having had any personal experience with it… I have had a negative experience with it but I have seen LONG term positive experiences for others so I try to be balanced about it.
Fantasizing about friends or even strangers and talking about it both in and out of the bedroom is NORMAL IMO. It does not mean you have to “make it so” sometimes the fantasy is hotter than the reality. I am glad you and your wife can talk about these things it’s healthy.
You made me laugh.. you have ONE brain..two heads.. and sadly the little head is winning here… what’s the saying ‘the problem with men is that they have two heads but can only think with one at a time, because when there’s blood in one, there isn’t any in the other”
IF you are feeling sexual tension with this other couple… until you resolve it, I advise that you not do things in your home or their home with them… esp not drinking… you are right alcohol will disinhibit you and you may regret a slightly tipsy encounter later on.
In addition, if you do swap (or soft swap or anything like that) the friendship may not survive…. So where you stand right now is risking losing this friendship either way.
Your conflicted feelings are NOT helping. So this is my take on it….
1. You and your wife must talk very openly and honestly with each other. You may even want to consider a counselor in the short term to help facilitate the conversations you need to have. This is not going to be a one and done conversation… this needs to be ongoing and you need to figure out why this is so enticing for you… and her if it is.
2. EVEN if you WANT to be sexual with this couple I would not ever consider it. To be honest if NOT sleeping with them is going to destroy the friendship then they are not as good of friends as you think they are. AND if you are the jealous type then sleeping with them will probably destroy the friendship. Yes I have friends I have been sexual with and if I was with my last husband we would still be friends with them and occasionally we would be sexual with them, but to be honest most of my encounters with my swinger friends after life settled down was NON-SEXUAL…. In fact, I’d say 90% of the time or more it was all about dinner and gaming… nothing sexual at all.
3. Rejecting your friends socially unacceptable sexual advances is NOT rejecting your friends or the friendship… it’s setting limits. IF they can’t respect your limits and your needs.. then are they really such good friends???
I feel your pain and your struggle and I commend you for trying to fix this and make it work well for everyone. Sadly something is going to have to give…
A
male
reader, trager6466 +, writes (13 February 2013):
trager6466 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks svc. Always read your comments on the swinging lifestyle and find them informative. Yes I did tell my wife but she didnt comment at all-surprising as we do occasionally fantasise about our friends during sex. When I get a chance, I will discuss it with her face to face (we are always open about discussing these kinds of things). As a typical male, I would probably indulge and worry after, whereas my wife is the sensible one and says she wouldnt do anything to damage our marriage/friendship. In her words "if we did do it things would never ever be the same again" and shes right I guess.As for me, iam really conflicted. Yes as a red blooded male with the 2 brains I find the thought of it really erotic and I know if we dont address this it will probably end happening as a drunken mistake as things have moved on between the 4 of us oover the last year or so-feels like the relationship is a runaway train as there is a sexual/emotional attachment to this couple-something weve never felt in other friendships. But how to address it? I am afraid if we reject our friends our friendship may fade away, that worries me as hes almost like a brother to me and shes like a sister to my wife. Really conflicted and confused. Help!!
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (7 February 2013):
OP, you can't worry about keeping the friendship unless it's more important to you than your marriage.
Have you told your wife what he said?
IF so, what did she say?
IF not, why not?
The fact that you told him it's a major turn on just gives him more fuel to push you to do it.
IF you don't want to do this what you needed to say was "i'm glad you find my wife so attractive, I have to assure you that swapping is not happening in this life time. NO WAY am I SHARING MY WIFE"
but you didn't. YOU fed the fantasy... and I sense you are very conflicted about it.
...............................
A
male
reader, trager6466 +, writes (7 February 2013):
trager6466 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAn update to the kiss and how i am even more confused about our friendship and where it’s going.We were out with our friends on Saturday and I was going to bring up the kiss with my friend.However my friend beat me to the punch and then some. As we went to the bar (only our 2nd drink, therefore can’t blame booze) my friend said "we can never ^^^k each other’s wives behind each other’s backs” I replied "that goes without saying". No more was said for an hour until he said "have you ever considered swapping wives? You could play with X and I could play with Z every few months, just some fun as we are close anyway, I don’t mind swapping as i am not about to leave X , just think life’s too short" I replied "That’s a major turn on mate and I’d love to, but we’ve got to look at the bigger picture. Jealousy, one of us falling for another, one or both of the girls becoming emotionally involved, you’ve got to really think this thru mate”. I’ve not seen him since, but obviously there was more to that kiss-just as I thought. I am not embarrassed about his suggestion and in an ideal world would indulge. However, it’s not an ideal world and I have read about the potential pitfalls of swinging. How do I Iet him down gently and keep our great friendship unaffected?
...............................
A
male
reader, CMMP +, writes (25 January 2013):
I still think it has to do with the chemistry you admitted you all share and the fact that they were drunk. I've done some things like that when I was drinking and had ZERO intention of trying to take things further... it just kind of happens, no explanation needed.
That being said I'd agree that it's strange your wife says she doesn't remember. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't second guess my answer at all. But, as SVC said we tend to assume other people experience things the same as us and that's obviously not true.
...............................
A
male
reader, trager6466 +, writes (25 January 2013):
trager6466 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks svc and cmmp for your input.
'Watched my wife' is probably the wrong way to put it. As I said, I saw what was going on out of the corner of my eye and I was several feet away, it wasnt a peck it was a gentle kiss and her body language gave me the indication she was receptive to it (she tilted her head to one side to open her neck up to him).When I faced them they were laughing and joking. Again, iam NOT concerned as it did kind of turn me on at the time, is
that normal? My only concern is my friend wanting to take things further with my wife or us as a couple, that means confrontation and I tend to run away from that.As you said SVC, thats dangerous territory and maybe in his eyes the increase in innuendo and flirting gives him the green light to test the water, so to speak. As for me saying he is alpha, I still say he is.I acknowledge what you say about wannabee alphas (got another mate who definitely thinks he is)but my friend doesnt go around beating his chest claiming to be.He is an average joe bur whenever we go out, whether with our wives or with the lads, women seem to make a beeline for him. Maybe its because he engages them and is very confident (my opposite).
Sorry if iam waffling. I didnt mention certain things in my original question as I wanted answers about the kiss itself and not to have your answers influenced by me. Maybe its my ocd re emerging. Have a great weekend
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (24 January 2013):
Ah I love follow-ups… thank you OP for clarifying so many things.
1. DO NOT EVER consider swinging. YOU can’t handle it, based on your follow up.
2. I do not know what ^^^ed is supposed to mean but no one said she was drunk or irresponsible… the statement I made was “alcohol makes us do things we would not and should not normally do.” This means even ONE glass of beer wine or hard liquor would relax a person. I still stand my my statement that the alcohol loosened her up.
3. You applying your thoughts as to what you would do if someone else reacted to YOU is not very telling as it may not be what someone else would do. Folks tend to project their feelings and beliefs on others and therefore assume if they would do something or interpret something one way, everyone else would do the same. This is not accurate. EVERYONE is DIFFERENT and therefore what YOU would do may not be what your friend would do.
4. I don’t buy into the whole “alpha male” thought process. My husband likes to think he’s an “alpha male” he’s not, he’s a jerk. Plain and simple… I find that TRUE alpha’s have NO CLUE they are that way. That’s part of what makes them alphas. The behavior of a true alpha is very different from the posturing of a “wanna be” alpha (a man who fancies himself alpha vs actually being one). In my experience, men that THINK they are alphas (and more so men that say they are or label others as such) are NOT truly alphas nor do they grasp the actual concept. You’re thinking of the game King of the mountain…
5. Your wife may very well NOT remember the kiss. This could be because it meant nothing to her. Again it means something to YOU so YOU recall it. To her it may be no big deal. You are basically saying “which I struggle to believe” as a nice way of saying your wife is a liar and you don’t trust her. Again you are saying YOU would remember it if his wife did it to you so therefore your wife must remember it because you would. This is not the case. Just because you would remember it does not mean everyone else would. More projection on your part.
6. So you “watched her at the time” you did not comment then, or intervene or address it “hey man lay off my wife” or anything you just WATCHED? You say “she wasn’t embarrassed or surprised” The proper statement should be “my wife did not APPEAR embarrassed or surprised” again you do NOT know what was going on in her head and you are basing this on what you think you saw. If she does not remember it, it may be something subconsciously she has blocked because it truly bothered her. Again YOU DO NOT KNOW. YOU are making inferences and assumptions.
7. “my friend was sober enough to make sure me or his wife (sic) were not about at the time” again you are making assumptions that he did this and that he not impaired and he was checking around to make sure it was ok. You imply he’s moving in on your wife and making a pass at her with malice and forethought.
8. You say “I am nto gonna go all territorial and confront him I am gonna let it go on this occasion” THIS is your mistake. YOU call him up and say “bill let’s go get a beer” take him out buy him a beer and say “hey I saw you kiss my wife’s neck at that party and I wanna know what’s up with that because I gotta say while we joke about stuff, it bothered me”. IGNORING IT is not going to make your discomfort go away.
You don’t confront him. You talk to him like friends do. You have a close friendship with this couple. I know my husband would so be in the face of a man who encroached on his wife’s personal space that way if it bothered him.
...............................
A
male
reader, trager6466 +, writes (24 January 2013):
trager6466 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for your input. Let me say that we weren't ^^^ed irresponsible teenagers, at the time of the kiss none of us were so drunk that we didn't know what we were doing and its not really about whether to swing or not.Its more about the 'kiss' and its meaning.In my eyes a kiss on the nape of the neck is sexual and says 'I want you'.If I had kissed my friends wife on the neck and she wasnt embarrassed or didnt pull me up for it, I would interpret that as a potential buying signal sexually.If I was a predatory alpha male without morals I would probably slowly up the ante and see how far I could get.I like to think my friend has my morals, but he's most definitely 'alpha' so is he upping the ante? She claims she doesnt remember it happening, which I struggle to believe, because if his wife had done it to me I certainly would remember as it wouldve been an unusual thing.I watched her at the time, she wasnt embarrassed or surprised by it, meaning she was comfortable with his behaviour. My friend was sober enough to make sure me or his wife were not about at the time. Iam not gonna go all territorial and confront him, iam gonna let it go on this occasion. Should I just keep my eye on him and if it happens again politely ask him to refrain? As I said, we are close and I definitely think there is a spark. I just dont want to take it for granted that the 'perfect storm' wouldnt happen between him and my wife .
...............................
A
male
reader, CMMP +, writes (24 January 2013):
I completely agree with SVC.
It sounds like you have a great relationship with them and your wife and you've even admitted to the sexual tension. He may have crossed the line but considering he was drunk its hard to really blame him.
I don't blame you for being bothered but it was probably 99.9 percent innocent.
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (23 January 2013):
alcohol makes us do things we would not and should not normally do.
I would LET IT GO
and NOT joke about this.
Swinging has ruined more marriages than I care to admit.
My last marriage was open and it was the death of the marriage.
...............................
|
