A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:Hey,There is this thing that's been bugging me for a while now and I will appreciate any honest answer to my question.I've been involved with a girl for the last 7 months and at one point we actually discussed one of the 'not so good to talk about in a relationship' subjects, that being the number of sex partners each of us has had until now. And so I learned that her number is 8 before me.Considering that she is 25, in my opinion that's not a large number, but I seem to not be able to stop myself from actually disliking that.I also know that at this point this is a double standard in the matter, since I'm 22 and my number is more than double hers, plus I do consider myself a rational person so I'm actually sort of ashamed of the fact that this is bothering me.Then again, I can't seem to stop myself from having questions about the figure, if it's reasonable or not in other people's standards, except my owns. What do you think? Is the figure ok or does this make her unsteady or anything?The fact is that this girl is really great and I actually think that I'm going to stick with her so I don't want to let this minor and duplicitary issue that I seem to be having affect the relationship we have.I would appreciate any answer on what you think about the number and any possible ways to take my mind of this before it actually becomes a problem.Uhmmm...I am laughing at myself sometimes so I won't hold it against you if you have a laugh over this too, but, as I said, I will honestly appreciate your answers.All the best and thank you for your time! Reply to this Question
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (21 June 2010): You are gravely mistaken, Yos. We would NOT seek compassion and forgiveness. We would accept the consequences of our actions like responsible adults. But that's the real problem here isn't it? These women think they can have their cake and eat it too. And what better way to avoid the consequences of their actions than to turn the tables on the men?
What you're saying is: forgive so that you may demand forgiveness if you screw up. An opportunistic and downright weak attitude. And this was the foundation of society? I truly don't think so. If societies were truly built on compassion and forgiveness we would be a bunch of incompetent bufoons, constantly forgiving each other's shortcomings. Instead, societies were built on obedience and discipline, concientiousness and industriousness. And these values were passed on from generation to generation because of this reason. If they weren't the key to a society's prosperity then they would be frowned upon, just like promiscuity. "Evolution" itself dictates what caused it.
As far as i'm concerned love is supposed to make you happy. You're supposed to be better off than being single. Love is NOT paying money to psychologists to cure you of issues you never had. And as cold as it sounds, it's way cheaper and much more efficient to find a new gf than to waste time and money in a neverending nightmare.
J
(This is my first post here)
A
male
reader, Yos  +, writes (19 June 2010):
 "Actually, the "essence" of morality is following a system of conduct that you feel is virtous. If you think compassion is part of that, that is great for you, but perhaps not for everyone."
The essence of morality is not a system you feel is virtuous. By it's nature morality is a shared value system, not an individual one. What each of us feels about it is irrelevant: it's what we all collectively feel about it that matters. You have described what is called the 'fallacy of relativism' in ethical philosophy.
As for compassion being at the heart of morality: I was oversimplifying. What is at the heart of morality is what is commonly called 'the golden rule'. Essentially the idea that we should act towards others as we ourselves would wish to be treated. As expressed concisely by Luke: "Do to others as you want them to do to you.".
This is the basis of compassion and forgiveness, since we would all seek compassion and forgiveness if we found ourselves in that situation.
This golden rule has been at the center of every meaningful ethical system and religion our human history has recorded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule
One last thing. I don't know how old you are, but if you think 8 partners at age 25 are a lot, then you're out of touch with contemporary society.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (18 June 2010): Having respect & compassion for someone is one thing. Wanting to be in a romantic relaionship with them is something else entirely.
The world is full of women that I would respect and care about but I don't want to make them my GF for various reasons.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (18 June 2010): "To say a girl is immoral because of this is itself immoral! The essence of morality is compassion and forgiveness: you have shown you have neither."
Actually, the "essence" of morality is following a system of conduct that you feel is virtous. If you think compassion is part of that, that is great for you, but perhaps not for everyone.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (18 June 2010): "To say a girl is immoral because of this is itself immoral! The essence of morality is compassion and forgiveness: you have shown you have neither. You are the one who should not be comfortable: with yourself."
Tell you what - I think your morality is digusting because you think its ok to do such things. If you have a different moral viewpoint, that is fine, but I find it more than a little funny that you so vehemently criticize others when their moral compass is more stringent than your own.
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A
male
reader, Yos +, writes (18 June 2010):
"Eight by 25 is a lot. I would want to go through life knowing eight other men got thier rocks off in the woman Im giving my heart to.
Id dump her and find a girl with some morals. Life is a long time to be with someone your not totally comfortable with."
This is a really horrible attitude! Despicable actually.
To say a girl is immoral because of this is itself immoral! The essence of morality is compassion and forgiveness: you have shown you have neither. You are the one who should not be comfortable: with yourself.
As for those claiming 4 / 5 partners is the norm: sorry but that's simply not the case. Most of the survey data covers all ages. The reality is that sexual habits have changed greatly over the last few generations, and people in the 20s now have a much higher number than 20 year olds a few decades ago and before.
Also women under-report partners in surveys.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2010): Eight by 25 is a lot. I would want to go through life knowing eight other men got thier rocks off in the woman Im giving my heart to.
Id dump her and find a girl with some morals. Life is a long time to be with someone your not totally comfortable with.
Also, its my hunch that most of the people who are telling you to grow up are women who have numbers above this and dont like the truth staring them in the face.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2010): I don't know where people get off saying these high numbers are normal.
Average for men is 7. Average for women is 4. Split the difference (to even out the lying on both sides) and you get 5.5 average. That's for adults of all ages, not just 20s.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2010): I need to get out more. I'd only had ONE sexual partner by the age of 25... I'm 36 now and only had THREE!
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI didn't intend to thank you all so soon, but...
You've really read my mind in your last paragraph chigirl and that might just be the exact problem I have: I'm confident my number doesn't matter since I want her, but I can't read her mind so I must be trying to use her number to determine if she wants the same thing or not... Completely useless indicator so I guess I don't have total control of what I'm thinking.
Either way, your answer has really made me see things in a different light so thank you for your time and goodwill.
Also thanks to Cerberus and tinkerbell**, you both have made good points in your answers.
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A
male
reader, Yos +, writes (17 June 2010):
It's a very average number. Nothing to be alarmed about.
It's ok not to like the idea of her being with other men. This is ironically a good sign: it shows that you really care about her. If you didn't care about her, you wouldn't care about her past.
You're not going to be able to 'think' your way out of this. This is a basic emotional reaction: pure and simple. The more you think about it, the more you'll dig up those emotions and the more it will hurt.
Your escape is to learn not to think about it. You'll still feel bad about it, there's nothing you can do about that. But if you stop thinking about it, and just let the feelings come and go without trying to analyse them, you'll find that over time you become less and less bothered by this. It's not easy, and can take time, but it's very possible to do. Whenever you find yourself thinking about this, change the subject in your head. Just pick another subject you're interested in: sport, cars, politics, whatever you're into.
I've written here extensively on this topic (having experienced it myself). Search my prior posts for more information.
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (17 June 2010):
 8 partners at 25 is low. And in your defence I think you are grown up. You are just confused at why this is still bugging you when all your logic tells you it shouldn't bug you.
I think you need to focus your attention on why this bothers you. Is it because you fear she is unsteady? In that case, think about a few other factors that show stability and loyalty. Has she ever cheated? If not that speaks for her stability. How is her character? Does she come off as a stabile person? Do you feel you can trust her? Is she honest?
I believe one reason for why you let the number of her partners bug you is because you really like this girl. You want to stick by her side. And even with your own high number of previous partners, you know in your heart you are dedicated to her. So your own number doesn't matter, because you know that you will be loyal to her. However you can not read her mind, or know what is in her heart. So in order to know how dedicated she is to you, you search for answers in her number. Try to find your answers in other areas. Like I said, find out how much you mean to her by observing the way she is around you, the things she does for you, how honest she is. Communicate with her.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2010): This perfectly normal, there's nothing to laugh about to be honest.
We still have in our society the idea that a woman is supposed to be chaste, it pervades every part of our society and has done so for centuries even with all the equality women strive to have the idea that women are supposed to be 'pure' and all that kind of stuff is a tag that's very hard to remove.
We're bred to believe that women with lots of sexual partners are sluts, impure, dirty or damaged. No matter how enlightened we are about the subject it's still there in the back of our minds.
Let me put your situation in context though. My girlfriend has had roughly 50 sexual partners and these are only the ones she's has full sex with. It wouldn't even be possible to calculate how many she's done other sexual thing with.
My girlfriend has had some tough times in her life, including sleeping on the streets at 14, being taken in by Russian gangsters when she had nowhere else to go. I could write a book on the rest of her experiences but just suffice to say, sex was her tool for survival, if she gave it to guys they would take care of her or leave her alone. It just became habit for her then, the natural progression in any friendship she had with a guy was sex.
She was easy by her own admission and is not proud of what she did or had to do but that was a different part of her life. She's settled now has a secure job, house, good friends, me and that part of her life is over and she's moved on from it.
My point is that we all have a past, whether you can deal with that past is up to you, but you weren't there you don't know how or who she was then or what happened with these sexual partners. What matters is now, her past has no bearing on how she is now, with you and besides sex isn't a numbers game whether its 8 or 50 who cares? She's with you now, just move on from that it's really not as big a deal you're making it out to be.
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A
female
reader, tinkerbell**  +, writes (17 June 2010):
Grow up!!!! it would be different if u had only say 2-3 previous sexual partners but as you say u have more thn double to what she has so wise up.
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