A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I used to roll my eyes when people say they had issues dealing with their partner's past; however, now I am unexpectedly on the receiving end as my partner's past is a bit beyond what I am used to, and I am at my wits end trying to stop dwelling on it and wondering what I should do.We have been dating for the best part of a year. I first found out some details of her past when she just mentioned some things 'off the cuff' while we were just happily chatting. I was shocked as it was not at all in keeping with the personality or behavior she has. Naturally, I dwelt on this new information and later probed a little deeper and found out some more details that distressed me. She rapidly got aggressively defensive and fed up with me asking questions, so I promptly stopped and have not bugged her since ... that was months ago but the few details I struggle with have been on my mind CONSTANTLY (familiar story I'm sure). I also can't help wondering if there was any more she kept quiet that was even more shocking and would have driven me away right away.I don't think how I feel is at all her fault or responsibility; I don't blame her and I am capable of thinking very rationally about this sort of thing. I understand and believe that she is 'as she is' and I need to decide on my own whether to accept that package or respectfully leave it.I'll elaborate on a few of the things I know of that particularly bother me:- She was 23 when we started out and she estimates she's had 20-30 sexual partners (I never pressed her to be precise about this) despite having been in a couple of relationships lasting a couple of years.- She has had some one off sexual encounters I find very disturbing, e.g. one with a boss who was nearly three times her age, one recently with a guy six years younger, plus other single times with less than desirable characters.- A fair while back she experimented with her sexuality long period and also tried a threesome (she has no desire to repeat this).- She admits on occasions in the past she has done things others may think slutty, simply for fun - like skinny dipping, sleeping with someone out of boredom or to spite someone else, being overly flirtatious etc.- I can only surmise she was highly promiscuous during her teenage years, which I find more upsetting than if it all came later.There's more petty stuff I am not phased by, but these few things are way beyond what I would expect my partner to have experienced - if I had known all this before we got serious I would have not even bothered getting to know her. It also kinda bothers me that while she accepts some of it is a bit shameful, she doesn't think any of it is a big deal at all and thought I would have laughed at it if anything (!?). She once lied about a friend not being an ex - I don't know why as I wouldn't care, it's not someone she ever sees anyway, but that lost my trust a little - she said she didn't think it important and she knew I had trouble with her past and was sorry. Hmm. As I've said, you would NEVER believe all this given how she acts and her sweet, smart, positive personality, and she's never remotely done anything to suggest she'd even capable of any of this sort of behavior. But it's not like it was all waaay in the past, from what I know it pretty much led up to when we met.I have a past too and from what I observe on some online forums, maybe some people would have issues with mine, but it is nooothing like hers and totally free from any of these one-off less-common incidents i.e. if I switched my past for hers I would genuinely be okay with it.I want to keep being as respectful as possible about this and I feel really bad sharing this information, albeit anonymous. I don't want to bring this issue up with her again, but I can't go on having these issues on my mind for a significant amount of every single day and night (yes - it's that bad for me).On the positive! - Our relationship is totally amazing and faultless otherwise; we are very close, love each other's company, have great fun together, work well together, are both very attractive and healthy and we have a good sex life. When I bury my thoughts on this matter, we could both be observed to not possibly be any happier together. It seems like a lot to throw away for stuff in the past...I don't want people to make my mind up for me and I know there's no miracle 'cure', but I would like to hear any opinions to help me.Shall I keep seeking advice or working on my own methods to deal with her past (the problem hasn't been getting better with time, worse if anything) or do I need to cut my losses and give it all up - in my head that 'seems' like the logical thing to do (to reiterate, this is bothering me pretty much all the time to a serious degree) but in my heart I find it near impossible to just walk away.Thanks for your time if you read all that :) :) :)
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Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (18 August 2012): Are you kidding? It is not socially acceptable to avoid partners whose past is too much. Not at all.
Socially acceptable means you can ask people on a first date what their views are on casual sex, how many partners they have, etc. This should not be considered any particularly rude or forward question to ask. No more than asking what religion you are, or if you have kids, or where you live, etc.
If you cannot ask to know someone's sexual history on the first couple of dates, then you cannot realistically avoid retro jealousy.
A
male
reader, Yos  +, writes (17 August 2012):
 "Allow men to do what it takes to stay out of relationships with people whose past will cause them hurt. And it has to be socially acceptable for them to take preventative steps, not just technically possible."
I agree with you. No one should ever be forced to be in a relationship they don't want to be in. And it is socially acceptable for men to choose the partner they think they will have the best relationship with: including sexual compatibility / outlook.
What I have seen on this site over and over is something like this:
"I love my girlfriend very much and our relationship is great other than this one issue that is driving me nuts. How can I get over it?".
I always start by saying: decide if you want to stay with her or not. That choice is always their choice: and can only come from them. The advice I give here is for those men who want to stay in their relationship and are trying to 'get over' their retroactive jealousy.
I happen to believe that overcoming retroactive jealousy brings other benefits in terms of outlook and beliefs about the world, but that's a by-product of the internal work done learning to deal with difficult emotions. Difficult experiences in life are learning experiences.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (16 August 2012):
Telling men to ignore some of their deepest genetic programming and endure a lifetime of emotional pain is not what I would call a good solution to a problem.
The only solution that is fair to both sides is a compromise. Part of that compromise means allowing men to do what it takes to stay out of relationships with people whose past will cause them hurt. And it has to be socially acceptable for them to take preventative steps, not just technically possible.
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A
male
reader, Yos +, writes (16 August 2012):
I have some comments on the latest few posts:
"If it is wrong to let someone's past negatives affect your feelings about them, then how can it be right to let the positive things affect your view? It cannot."
It turns out it can.
It's not a question of being right or wrong, it's a question of what's healthy. In psychology this is called 'time perspective'. And it's simple: we are demonstrably happier when we have a past positive mindset (focus on positive past experiences) than a past negative one (where we focus on negative past experiences). Again it's not a question of right or wrong, but of 'do you want to be happy?'. If you want to be happy: when thinking about the past focus on the positive.
Here's a good TED talk about it:
http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_prescribes_a_healthy_take_on_time.html
"Retro jealousy … has to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. Sexual power and freedom is like any other power and freedom. It comes with consequences and responsibility."
Certainly people can misuse their sexual power in ways that have consequences. Raping someone for example. Or having sex with someone you know is in a relationship. Or cheating yourself.
But that's not the problem. The problem I see most often with retroactive jealousy is men becoming obsessed with their partner's past where that past is perfectly 'normal'.
The problem is that sitting deep in many men's psyches is the conviction that a promiscuous woman is immoral. Retroactive jealousy forces this belief to the surface and requires confronting if RJ is to be overcome. And part of doing so means making the conscious decision that the belief 'promiscuous women are immoral' is irrational and needs to be let go of.
There are men who would rather continue to suffer the psychological torment of retroactive jealousy than accept that it's ok for women to have a wide range of sexual experiences and enjoy them.
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A
female
reader, Candid Cally  +, writes (15 August 2012):
This is not retroactive jealousy. This is your gut telling you to proceed with caution.
My fiance had a nasty manipulative girlfriend in highshool. Early in our relationship, he talked about her a lot. My only advice is this: if she really IS truly manipulative and lacks empathy...if you find her taking more and more from you and giving little other than frequent sex back...if she continues to lie or if she ever cheats on you...please warn your best male friends about her and end things. If she is really a manipulative person, she will at least attempt to sleep with your friends to get back at you. If a teenage girl was capable of this behavior in the late 1990s, then a grown woman is capable of the same behavior in the early 2010s.
Now, back to your situation and why this isn't retroactive jealousy. You are concerned because you obviously care deeply for her, but she has lied to you at least once (about the ex), and this lie along with her past actions (having sex with a boss, and to spite someone) concern you because this is evidence that she can use sex as a weapon! She has used sex to manipulate others to get something that she wanted, and some part of you is concerned that she could do the same thing to you.
Because she flippantly dismissed her past manipulative sexual escapades, i STRONGLY URGE you to proceed with caution. If she really doesn't view what she did as wrong or even slightly shameful, and really does think what she did was 'funny,' she has either deceived you and many others as to the true nature of her 'character,' or she has a very serious character flaw. I do hope I am wrong, but if I am not, you need to know now what you would do if the woman you loved turned out to be a completely different person than who you thought she was.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 August 2012): There is a lot of wisdom in Yos's viewpoint. However, he is focused on treating retro jealousy at the expense of fairness in other ways.
Am I wrong for admiring my partner's achievements in life? Their wise choices, their problems beaten, etc? This is "judging" someone too. If it is wrong to let someone's past negatives affect your feelings about them, then how can it be right to let the positive things affect your view? It cannot. Does a promiscuous person expect to be judged when they do something admirable, and not when they don't?
We are grownups. We need to act like them. A topic like retro jealousy is not clear cut. One side is not "right" and the other side "wrong." It has to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. Sexual power and freedom is like any other power and freedom. It comes with consequences and responsibility.
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A
male
reader, Yos +, writes (15 August 2012):
Glad some of the advice feels helpful.
Don't be discouraged by some of the reactions you see here. I have been coaching on this subject for over 5 years and tend to see these two reactions very often:
The first reaction is bitter men who say things like 'you have been trapped', 'society judges us for judging women', and 'leave her she doesn't deserve you'. There are several responses like this below on this page. Anonymous unsurprisingly, they usually are.
They all miss the point.
Where they go wrong is applying a moral judgment to women who have had anything other than pristine pasts. They judge them as somehow damaged, 'less than' and tainted in some way. That a woman with a sexual past has less worth than a woman without one. These views are very common: they have survived thousands of years as a means for men to control woman. The more traditional the country (e.g. Saudi Arabia, USA), the more prevalent these views are. The more progressive the country (e.g. Denmark, Netherlands) the less common they are.
There's no point in debating people with this opinion. Either a man can see a woman as an equal human being with feelings, rights and deserving of respect. Or he can't. A human being doesn't have a worth that can be reduced through sex. This is either self evident or not.
When you dig under the surface you find that these men have a corrupted view of religion and morality. They'll use morality as the reason to judge women: that sexual woman are not morally virtuous. The reason they use for justifying their negative emotions towards sexual women comes down to 'their morality'.
This is a misunderstanding of morality. Morality in all its forms teaches compassion, empathy and forgiveness. Jesus taught that we should accept others as equals whatever their actions and show them unconditional love and respect. All other religions teach this. Non-secular moralities teach the same: to judge someone and see them as lower than you is immoral.
These men are acting in an immoral way by judging women as less-than human and worth less than others. You'll never get them to see that though.
I get plenty of aggressive messages on this site from guys like that attacking my point of view. My personal rating gets hammered too by them. I feel pity for them mostly.
The second reaction tends to be from women. They'll attack you for being a sexist jealous man who wants to control his partner. This is very common, which is to be expected given there's lots of men out in the world who fit that description (see above…).
These women who attack you make a mistake too, but this time it's due to ignorance.
They make the mistake of believing that you choose your judgments and emotions. They think that you have decided to be bothered by your partners past and criticise her because you choose to.
That's not how retroactive jealousy works. Rather a man becomes obsessed with his partners past against his will and experiences uncontrollable and intrusive images and feelings that can be incredibly unpleasant. No man would choose to go through the mental anguish that retroactive jealousy delivers.
Once someone understands that retroactive jealousy is involuntary and essentially a psychological illness rather than chosen behaviour then they react differently.
A man has as much control over experiencing retroactive jealousy as he does over catching flu. It just happens to some people. The difference is what he does with it once he experiences it: either to let it control him and stay trapped in a world of pain and negative irrational beliefs about women, or to transcend the illness and himself and grow and learn from the experience: with the bonus of a happy healthy relationship at the end of it.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 August 2012): I've seemed to have worked past my retroactive jealousy problem. I ended up reading an article that explained why I was feeling the way I was feeling - it helped me get through it. I wish I had saved it.
Basically, you are imagining her doing these things. your brain cannot tell the difference between something being done to you or you imagining something she had done in the past. It leads to the same emotional/physical reaction - hurt, confusion, jealousy, anger. Emotions that would be no different than if you walked into a room and saw her doing these things with another man. The mind is tricked to believing its something you actually experienced which leads to your irrational reaction.
Its nothing that was done to you. You need to remember that. She's been nothing but loyal. I hope you find this article - it helped me a great deal.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 August 2012): The past doesn't matter and it's not fair to judge someone by it.
Except when applying for a job, enrolling in school, entering the military, buying a gun, borrowing money, getting elected to office, etc.
I guess the past only matters during those times when a person has to be evaluated for something important. That doesn't apply to relationships, right?
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 August 2012): People calling other people that they've never met and know absolutely nothing about, beyond the fact they are trying to find help with their problems 'judgemental', has to be the most ironic and dumb thing I've ever read.
I welcome good or bad views on what I should do or advice on how I can feel with my emotions on this matter, but please don't write unless it's constructive. I have a great relationship, and my partner and I are both very lucky to have each other. I'm trying to understand and deal with my problem myself, so it can continue to be that way; don't hate :)
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (14 August 2012): Thank you for the quick responses, guys, especially Yos and chigirl. First of all, I regret that my post obviously paints an image of criticism and negativity and it seems all have latches on to this to some degree ... I am trying to purely write about my issue and nothing else.Yes, we do feel that we love each other. Maybe it is a factor that it is hard to give up the emotional investment now. I also find the comment about respect interesting. I respect her, as I do all people, but as I read it written there, it clicked that maybe I did lose some respect. I sure don't think either of us were ever perfect but true, these revelations brought her further from it in my mind.We've never had a heated argument, no, although we are both outspoken and not afraid to get things off our chest, but nothing that ever lasts more than an afternoon.I will definitely try distracting myself and replacing thoughts/associations. I have tried changing my thoughts right away when I feel negative emotions creeping in, but I wondered if this was ignoring the problem and burying it. Your solutions sounds deeper and more corrective, so I will focus on this.As it says in my post, I completely acknowledge its my problem. I think its subjective to say how judgemental I am being; I know I could not be called judgemental in general, and I know its not horrible being with me, she constantly reminds me she's never been happier and it would break her heart too, if I walked away.Great stuff for me think over today. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to share, guys :)
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (14 August 2012):
 YOU CAN'T CHANGE HER PAST!!!!! Either, "man up" and decide that you like her as she is..... OR, let her go, so that she might find a less-judgemental man who will love her for WHO SHE IS..... NOT for who he wants his girl to be...
Good luck to her.... AND to you... in your search for a girl who will meet your lofty standards....
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (14 August 2012): "if I had known all this before we got serious I would have not even bothered getting to know her"
The other anon is right. You are in this position because our culture is not fair to people like you. You are allowed to date people who practice casual sex, but you are not allowed to avoid dating people who practice it.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (14 August 2012):
 Sounds to me like you need a therapist. You need to deal with this, this is YOUR problem, it's not really about her.
Read Yos post over and over til you "get it".
Or do HER a favor and let her go. Living with someone who is THIS judgmental must be absolutely horrible.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (14 August 2012): "if I had known all this before we got serious I would have not even bothered getting to know her"
The only reason why you're even considering staying is because you've invested emotionally in her. Oldest trick in the book. Leave.
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A
male
reader, Yos +, writes (14 August 2012):
You have made a positive first step: recognising that this problem is your problem not hers. That the problem centres on 'your' emotional reaction to her past.
You have to make a decision.
Do you want to stay with her? Do you love her? (I strongly suspect you do). Is this relationship worth saving? If so decide to put your best effort and heart into making this work. Otherwise walk away, but without being vindictive.
Bear in mind that if you don't deal with this problem now it may travel with you into future relationships. Unless you find a woman with virtually no past (a very hard thing to do), then you'll find yourself back with these feelings with someone else. This problem lives in you and is part of you until you exorcise it.
I can tell you the short version of what you need to do to get over this. I can also tell you it's possible, I've done it myself and spoken to a few others that have too. The long version would take a whole book to explain.
- Accept that this is your issue. You've already done this.
- Stop interrogating her for 'facts' and 'details'. It sounds like you've done this too. Each 'fact' will only cause more pain. Letting go means... letting go of the need to know. It sounds like you've done this too.
- Develop techniques for breaking out of the thought / emotion trap of dwelling on her past. There are many ways to do this: but the key is to be mindful so you are aware when you are falling into the pattern (thinking about her past, feeling bad, thinking more, feeling worse). At those moments accept the negative emotions but stop applying the thoughts to them. Recognise that thinking about them makes the situation worse not better. If you let the emotions flow over you without attaching thoughts to them they will pass. If you manage this, over time you'll find the intensity of the emotions weakens and your need to think about them decreases. There are other techniques: distracting yourself, mantras, meditations etc that work too. Search through my post history for more information on these.
- List the 'facts' as you know them and the negative beliefs about them that are causing you pain.
- Beliefs that are hurting you we can call 'irrational beliefs'. Write each of these irrational beliefs down. Then replace them with a positive interpretation of what happened. We can call those 'rational beliefs'. Once you've done this, try them out for size. Picture a world where you believed those rational beliefs instead of the irrational ones. You'll see that it's a world where you are happy with your girlfriend and don't have the associated pain about her past. Understand that we are free to choose our beliefs, that is one of the great powers human's have. Then do so: reject your irrational beliefs and accept these new rational ones.
To summarise you need to combine these two things:
- Managing to not fall into a negative spiral when you get intrusive negative feelings about her past. Avoid the infinite loop of negative feeling negative thought new negative feeling new negative thought etc. This is obsessive compulsive behaviour and leads only downwards.
- Replacing your irrational beliefs with helpful ones. This is incredibly scary. Know that you are not your beliefs. Don't hide behind morality or judgment. Know that you can choose who you want to be. Be the person that believes your girlfriends past experiences were a mix of positive and inconsequential things (which is true by the way) and that they have led her to you and made her into the person she is today. The person you love. Do you want to be an unhappy bitter man who clings to beliefs that drag you down? Or would you like to be free? It's worth changing who you are for that is in not?
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (14 August 2012):
 I stopped reading after the first half. I know how these posts go, you start listing uo whatever "crime" she has committed and wonder how to deal with it. Sort of like "what sort of punishment should I give her according to these crimes?".
But he girl isn't on trial, so I am not interested in hearing what bad or shocking things she has done. That's not relevant really, or interesting. The only thing of relevance here is what you wrote at the beginning of your post, and some things that you've left out as well:
-You've been with her a year
-You have an idea of who she is that you admire and like, perhaps even love by now
-You have feelings for her, hopes and dreams of a future too perhaps
-You have never cared about such matters as previous history before
Those are the things that are relevant. Shift your focus from details of whatever she'd done, and over to what is going on with YOU and your emotional life. You have feelings for her, you are the one who has a problem with these details, something is happening with you that you haven't experienced before. And it wont help you if you try to shift the blame on her. If you want to fix things, and feel better, you need to start with you.
Analyze what it is that bothers you. Does it bother you because you don't feel special? Is it not more likely then that you don't feel special because she perhaps hasn't managed to make you feel special? Perhaps she dedicates all her time to work, or friends, or perhaps she doesn't really give you what you want in a relationship. Thus, a past history can be what pin-points all these negative feelings. Feelings have a way of gathering at one point, or area, when instead the feelings come from many different aspects.
Perhaps you care about her past because you care about her more than you've cared about someone else. Perhaps you felt she was wronged in some way. It hurts us to hear that the ones we love were treated badly. We might feel angry that they have allowed it to happen to them.
Feelings always come from inside of yourself though. In this case, they are a reaction to something. But it is not as if her history itself is what causes the reaction. You don't react to everything anyone says about themselves, right? So having a reaction to things from the past is not normal for you. You don't always react that way, this is your first time like you said. So there is something else, a feeling you've had for a while perhaps, that has manifested itself/attached itself to this particular aspect. Perhaps her past history symbolizes many things that you worry about, or highlights her negative traits that you have come to discover in the year you've been together.
Attack the issues you have with her now, and the reasons why you feel bothered. But first you need to find them, and figure out what exactly it is that bothers you. Ask yourself questions, and spend some time thinking about this beyond the initial "past history" layer. There are feelings deeper down that need to be analyzed for you to understand this.
Now I will read the rest and see if that actually changes anything.
Well, it seems to me your issue with her past is more of an issue with respect for her. She lied once, and you lose trust in her, but you also lose respect for her. Perhaps this is a case of you initially holding her very high in respect, but then she admits to having done things that in your opinion degrades her. You feel these things would be below you, perhaps. So they should have been below her as well. People have different ideas of what is slutty (which is a really offensive word btw), or what is just being liberal.
Perhaps you have some ideal of what a "perfect" woman should be like, an ideal that is not open for adjustments. You said yourself you never thought she'd have done these things. Maybe you thought your girlfriend was this ideal woman, you built up a dream around who she was. And now that dream is broken. If so, that shows that you never really knew her, or loved HER, you loved the idea of having your ideal woman. If so, sit down and think about what your ideal woman is, if that's realistic, and if you should work on things with your girlfriend or if you are better off ending things so you can look for your ideal woman. No one has a right to judge you if you do. If someone isn't what you're looking for, no matter what reasons you have, then you are free to end that relationship.
One final theory of mine, reading down to your very last part of this post. You say you and your girlfriend are very happy together, that you have no other problems, that things are so great. Well, that supports my idea that you thought she was the ideal woman without imperfections, but what this also tells me is that you never really had a fight about anything. Have you argued? Have you gotten mad at her, ever? Has she ever gotten mad at you? Arguing is important in a relationship too. There shouldn't be any punches below the belt, or name calling. But there should definitely be some expressings of opinions. Perhaps you have surpressed your feelings on other areas, because you wanted to maintain the "perfectly happy" realtionship idea. Perhaps you feel like you have failed if you allow for a fight, or admit to there being problems.
Having problems in a relationship is not failure. It's how you deal with problems that determine whether you've failed or have been successful. All relationships have problems... perhaps you just need to accept that you have problems too, without that meaning the relationship is a failure.
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