A
female
age
,
*flash
writes:I am in a (5 month old) relationship with a mid 50 year old man who lives with his mid 30 year old daughter, her husband and 2 children (one of which is an almost 2 year old granddaughter that he adores of course). I am very jealous of the relationships with his daughters because I feel that our relationship will never be on the same level as his with his daughters.I will always be next in line of importance to Daughter 1, Daughter 2 and then Granddaugher. It is much like he and the oldest daughter that he lives with are husband and wife. He was a single dad that shared custody so they are of course very close... like best friends, but I feel that if we are to have a healthy relationship, that should be my role. They talk on the phone at least 3 times a day and her baby acts as if he is her daddy, cuz he is around more than the daughters husband (who works more than my boyfriend and who lives there too and they get along well cuz he helps with babysitting and chores).I am jealous of the unconditional love and relationship with this other "Family Units". They dont have an unhealthy physical relationship at all, and I like the whole family unit very much, but he will come over and catch up with sleep at my house, then get up and immediately go back to theirs. They live on a large ranch property, nice house, pool, lots of "stuff" which includes most importantly the grandbaby that he pretty much seems to have to be around every waking (and napping) hour of the day that he isnt at work (works 2-3 days a week). He called their place "the oasis" and said his whole life he had been living in the "desert" for so long and is basking in this new family unit thing (he has been there 2 years now). Well, I am living in my own "desert" feeling very left out and feel like I am in competition for his attention and affection. When I try to discuss with him how some of his actions make me feel, he gets mad. I do really like the family unit and feel very much like they like me, so that isnt the issue. It is just that I dont think he could ever be happy living with me in the "desert" cuz it just isnt the perfect world he has been living in w/ the daughter and her family for the last 2 years. I think she wants him to move on, but I also dont want him moving in w/ me if it is just for convenience cuz I am emotionally invested. He is, by actions, moving in more and more at my house (without any conversations about it). I am beginning to wonder if this whole situation is healthy and if our relationship has any hope of growth. It seems if he had his way, he would live at his daughters forever. Any suggestions or advice?
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female
reader, Country Woman  +, writes (14 August 2008):
 By what you say you have been putting others first for so long that you have forgotten how to do that for yourself. I know how easy it is to put others before yourself as losing my dad last February and being involved in all the legal aspect of that was the way in which I dealt with my dad's death as I was being my mum's rock I guess. My sister was not able to do things in the same way as her job takes her up and down the country so it was no point in her handling it but I had always taken on the secretarial role for my parents for so many years that it seemed quite natural.
However, the point I am trying to make is that at some point you suddenly realise wow I need some healing myself and I have had to stop myself a few times now as you cannot give, give give and NEVER receive yourself.
Thankfully I have never had anyone close who had alzheimers but I have known friends who's relatives have had it and it so hard to see a loved one go from being this person you have know all your life to someone who hardly knows who you are and through no fault of their own, just doesn't seem right.
You have said it yourself, YOU ARE A FABULOUS CATCH, just keep on reminding yourself of that fact as he is the loser in all of this but even if he does see the light I cannot see that he is possibly the right man for you. You deserve much better than him and I think when all said and done he i the one who has made that break a lot easier and yes most definitely now is so much better than in 2 or more years time when emotions and feelings are so much stronger. You woke and smelt the coffee and was fed up with being treated second best. You should come first in a man's life and not playing second fiddle to his children, ex's etc and everyone else including workmates. He didn't have courtesy to let you know about his movements even for the basic things like meals so I don't see that this man is going to have a ray of light suddenly hit him from above and become this wonderful caring man who puts a woman before his extended family. He is obviously to set in his ways and that is fine for him, he should get on with it. I would think it would be hard for any woman to cope with him and eventually he will push the daughter so far that she will even say enough is enough dad, you need your own place and my family need ours. Right now it is fine as he is also a babysitter but we move out of our parents home to make a life for ourselves and unless our parents are in need of care and support in later years we don't expect them to move in with us and affect our lives in the way this man is currently doing.
I am so glad you are seeing a therapist as it is so much easier to see life through a third parties eyes and understand why we behave the way we do when all the crap is being loaded on top of us and we are no longer able to cope. I know counselling has helped me get through the last 3 years since my long term relationship came to an end but it has also allowed me to not hang on to bitterness or hatred and I said yesterday that my ex is my best friend and he said the same about me. We have the odd days when we don't agree on things but that is fine as we also share our daughter's wellbeing to and to have a friend that is that close is great, he is like my brother that I never had and so counselling helped us achieve that.
Your work situation sounds hard to but you know that your inner strength will get you through, if not you wouldn't be the boss so stay strong and keep smiling OK.
You can always click on my name on the aunt list and mail me direct any time in the future about anything OK.
Take care.
BFN
Country Woman
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A
female
reader, pflash +, writes (14 August 2008):
pflash is verified as being by the original poster of the questionyou hit the nail on the head... thank you for putting that in the clear daylight for me (about the not really intending on buying a house, but making the daughter think he will). He really is in the bosom of the family now, and I believe that is the only place he can be truly happy. I have been doing alot of soul searching the last couple of days and talking about this situation and I will be glad when it is no longer the main topic of my whole life. I am a fabulous catch and if he truly wanted a great relationship he wouldnt pull back so much, so his loss. I am starting to realize (a little at a time) how lucky I am this happened now instead of it dragging out for years. I started going to a therapist about 2 months ago, and I can tell you, it has been a life saver. (I had to have my parents pulled from the home by police and put into a facility - mom has altzeimers and dad was in her care, and she got really protective and mean!!) and we were going thru a major whole dept upgrade with new technology I have to learn (and I am the boss) so I have had a whole lot of stuff I wasnt being able to deal with (and the bf daughter from Ill showed up and things started going downhill all at the same time). I have been an emotional wreck lately, but I know now that from this point on I need to start the healing process. I have stayed home crying too long and now it is time to get up and go out and do things to get my mind off of this. Time does heal, I do know that. I will always love him, but loving means sometimes you gotta let go. His loss big time.
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A
female
reader, Country Woman +, writes (14 August 2008):
Oh sweetheart you don't feel it right now but looking in at this situation from a different perspective shows that he was never really intending on making a committment towards you even in living with you. This guy has been deceiving his own daughter by saying he was looking to buy a place and never truly intending to do that.
In removing his goods he can be the wounded party and the daughter can go 'oh dad, of course you can stay with us'. He is back in the bossom of his family and I don't think that after his relationship history he is a guy to bank any hopes upon as he just doesn't have it in him.
Look at the history with the girl's mother's. Not really someone who can be relied upon.
It is hard to see right now as you fell in love with this man but by having the chat with him and him reacting the way he has means that he has left it in a semi amicable way - even over the teapot. Don't be his open tea stop though as you need to heal and seeing him would be too painful for you.
Start planning something for you now and even if that is with some girlfriends for some ME time then please do it as you need that right now. Don't rush into anything new but allow yourself to grieve for this relationship and when the time is right love with come your way again but next time it may be with a man who is ready to commit so don't give up hope.
Here any time OK.
Take care and keep smiling even through the tears, light is always at the end of the tunnel.
BFN
Country Woman
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A
female
reader, pflash +, writes (13 August 2008):
pflash is verified as being by the original poster of the questionupdate... We had a long talk on tues night and he actually validated alot of my issues..saying he had been telling me what he thought I wanted to hear, instead of being honest about what his intentions were. He didnt seem to get mad or anything, said I was a wonderful woman and that he didnt want to break up. It all seemed to go well. but the next day he came over and removed his things. I had mentioned that this may be the thing to do since his "living with me" (?) was such an issue of me putting expectations on him. When I got home after work and found his things gone, I cried and cried. Just another "hurt" for me. I thought that after our discussion we had come to terms with that he needed to be clear about his intentions instead of just leading me with things he thought I wanted to hear (which I explained had been our main issue all along that had not been resolved) and that we should think alittle and try to communicate more clearly and be upfront. I guess he took it all as an ultimatum... so now I feel we are done. I called him and told him I was sad to find his things gone, and he said he was sad too, but I think he is actually relieved to be free and back living full time w/ his family unit. He told me the other night during our talk that he didnt want to buy a house (as he has been saying he was shopping for one, but I think it is just to make the daughter think he is) and the reason he didnt want to buy one is because he didnt want to go home to an empty house alone. You would think he would consider the options and stay with me and try to just tell me what his intentions are (instead of telling me what he thinks wont upset me - when doing so is exactly what upsets me and he doesnt seem to get this!)
Well, I self medicated last night to the extreme and feel very very lonely today. If that is his choice there is no way I can put love and consideration in his heart if it isnt there after 5 months I think. He said last night on the phone to keep the teapot he just bought and left, and make him tea when he comes over next time, but again, I believe that once again, that is being said because it is his style to say what he thinks I want to hear to avoid conflict, which again, put another little dagger in my heart. I wish he had been upfront the other night and told me he was done instead of making my heart do another rollercoaster. I will be ok I suppose. I have loved and lost before, but my heart will take some time to mend. I loved him like I have never loved before and this will probably always be in my heart, good and/or bad. And thanks for the remarks from the male section... I wish I could read mens minds, and I am sure they wish they could read ours, but perspective from the "aliens" is helpful too.
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A
male
reader, Wild Thaing  +, writes (13 August 2008):
 Thanks for the update. It puts things in a slightly different light.
Most men are pretty dense - myself included. If you don't think this guy respects your time, the only way to make him understand is to tell him so without equivocation. He practically needs to be hit over the head with a hammer. Don't rationalize his behaviour because in doing so you enable the disrespect you don't deserve.
But remember that disrespect cuts both ways. Giving ultimatums is disrespectful, manipulative, and invites disaster. I think he'll walk if you give him one. Maybe that's really what you want, but if you don't, then you owe him a chance to show you the respect you deserve.
Good luck and take care.
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A
female
reader, Country Woman +, writes (11 August 2008):
Oh my word well like you say actions speak louder than words and this guy is really not used to being in a relationship.
A woman will always remember what a man says to her about seeing her later but men tend to say things like that in an off the cuff remark like 'see ya later mate' when in real terms it could be a few days before they get in touch.
I do understand how you feel and after he has moved things into your home and you are basically asking for common courtesy regarding preparing meals and knowing whether to bold your doors at night these are normal everyday things that you do when you feel you are in a relationship and there SHOULD be consideration from the other person to let you know in advance.
Seems to me like this guy does HIS OWN THING as and when he wants to and so I think that now I understand the situation on his past relationships and yes the anger aspect I think it would be better to draw back and say I have had enough as I need to have boundaries in my life and I am not asking you to commit but if you have your things here I am not a mind reader when I ask you if you are coming home for tea or to sleep here. I can't carry on like this as I need stability in my life.
If however, he cannot understand where you are coming from then I think you are better off without him and you asking him to move his things out may be the kind of jolt he needs as he obviously has a problem with someone knowing his daily movements and that is his issues and not yours.
I am sorry if I sounded harsh in asking you to understand his closeness to the family unit but I now see that this is his crutch as he cannot obviously now be in a relationship with someone as he is just not able to give enough of himself emotionally and if there is an anger issue I think you are well and truly better off out of it as it could escalate to a physical level and that is NEVER good.
You deserve happiness in your life and as we are only here once why should you have to deal with his issues but instead be with someone who gives as much as you do.
It is never easy to switch off emotions for someone but instead don't rush into anything new but perhaps plan a trip with a friend and give yourself some ME time and even pamper yourself i.e. hair or nails or a lovely massage to revitalise yourself again and yes YOU can now control the remote control and not have to think about the toilet seat being up etc!!!!
Always here and you can always message me direct if you want to chat OK.
Take care.
BFN
Country Woman
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A
female
reader, pflash +, writes (11 August 2008):
pflash is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell, it doesnt take long to start to realize that actions do really speak louder than words. We had our "date" friday, (which I took vacation time for), and we were going to spend the day together. He spent the first half of the day (7-10:30) hanging out where he works (not working just hanging with buddies even tho he knew I was at home waiting on him), then came over and proceeded to need a shower that he made really long (to intentionally upset me - so he even said). We spent the rest of the day doing half of what we had planned, but had a nice time I think. I just laughed off what he had done, altho it had upset me that he seemed to want to upset me intentionally.
Anyway, then he said he Might come over sunday and have coffee.. he didnt and I didnt think he would cuz I have know that might means no, and even he will sometimes doesnt mean he will. I had to call him to come get his locked bike chain off my mower so I could mow, which he did, then took off over to the daughters (around 10 am), and said clearly "I be back in a little while" so around 6pm I called to see if he was coming home for dinner... he said no... a few hours later he was at hospital (he works for EMS) and he called to ask if I was upset and I said no (cuz I didnt want to be a downer) Then he says "I will call you when I get back to the (EMS) station. He didnt. I called him 2 hours later to see if he was going to come home to sleep - which he has been living at my place for almost two weeks now- to find out he was back at the daughters, so I asked if he was "coming home" for bed, and he said no, he was going to stay at the daughters. Well, I probably shouldnt have, but I told him that it had upset me that he had said "be back in a little while" earlier that day, which he denied, and that I wish he would have told me something else, cuz he had also said that he would call me when he got back to the station, which he very angrily denied and said he didnt want to argue about it, and so I said I wasnt arguing I was just explaining... so I said goodnight and got off the phone.
Thing is, I cant believe I can go on like this with no respect for my feelings. He is either just clueless, or intentionally trying to hurt my feelings. I believe it to be the first (clueless), but his Actions speak Louder than Words and I feel that I am hanging on to this man who has no concern for me. I spent the afternoon working on dinner and lunches for the week, and thinking he was coming back to sleep as he has been doing, but he did not share anything with me except he told me he was going to spend time w/ the family unit the day before (which was great!!) but then he just strung me along after that. I think it is because he is afraid to just say he is going there and going to stay the night, afraid I will get mad, but the truth is I get upset when he doesnt give me that info. I feel used and unloved. So see, it isnt that I am jealous of the family unit... It is that I am hurt by his actions toward me.
I believe I am going to ask him to remove his items from my home and go. I need to be free to see other people because altho I feel I love him more than anything, I can see that this is really just making me miserable and I feel that he has no desire to try to be considerate. I asked him to talk about "just moving in without any discussion" last week, but he has made no attempt to do so. I do not feel he has the ability to make me feel loved because he will always be on the defensive when I try to ask him to be fair with me. He really has anger issues. Last night he even said I was lying to him when I said he said he would call me from the station, but he did say just that, and I need to be able to believe what he says is what he means. I pray for strength now because I love him dearly but feel I must ask him to go. That is the last thing I wanted. I guess I am trying too hard to make it work, and I must let go I guess. if there were any other solutions I wish I knew what to do, but if love is one sided, it isnt going to work.
To answer your questions, Oldest daughter's mother lives in our same town. They do not speak. There is some real bad blood there. They were married more than 10 years. I am sure it was his anger issues that broke them up. The other daughter's mother now lives in illinois. They apparently fought all the time before and after the baby and when the baby was born, she moved back to illinois to be with her family. He followed her 3 years later cuz he missed being the daddy, but apparently mom didnt let him "move back in" he lived down the street from them for 6-7 years, sharing custody (they were never married) then 2 years ago moved back to tx to see his granddaughter be born.. He hasnt been in a relationship for 12 years, since he and the youngest (12 yr old) daughters mother broke up, but they spent alot of time together sharing the daughter back and forth. Neither of them apparently ever dated anyone else during that time. so there you have it. I am preparing to lose him, because I need compassion and trust. I dont feel I can trust what he tells me. I dont think he realizes he does what he does or says what he says, but it is so. And it hurts me and the problem is that he shows no sign that he cares. He just denies. His actions are sortof like an animal in a cage, and I am not the one caging him, just wanting him to be considerate, and I feel that if he cared for me, that would be a natural thing to do. Signed... not just badly bent, but broken.
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A
female
reader, Country Woman +, writes (8 August 2008):
Well sounds to me that the words you received from us all have echoed those of your bf and if him getting his feet under your table does worry him then it is understandable that he gets comfort from his family.
5 months is no time at all and I think if you didn't feel as close to him and have such strong feelings for him then none of the issues would have arisen. He is obviously a wonderful man who is loved by all and talking openly seems to be the trick in all of this rather than as you say letting him know you are hurt by his actions. Talking always brings us closer to those we care about and you are already doing that.
The one thing that has never been mentioned is the daughter's mother. What happened in that relationship was it divorce or is he a widower? I just wondered how long he has been on his own before being with someone new or has he had previous relationships as this all seems so NEW to him? Just a question really.
Keep us posted on how things progress as we are all here to help OK.
BFN
Country Woman
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A
female
reader, pflash +, writes (7 August 2008):
pflash is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThree answers so far each with a little different perspective on each...thanks! Thats what I was hoping for. I really dont want to play games like trying to make him jealous, but I am trying to find more things to do independent of him so that I do not find myself being over-needy of him. I do respect his family devotion and feel very lucky that they are such wonderful people who are very open to me as the girlfriend. I am hopeful that, since this is an early relationship, that there is still time for it to grow and evolve and our communication is getting better as we get to know each other. Even last night after I got upset about something, we were able to settle down and discuss it and end the evening with compassion and a better understanding of how we can both better deal with issues. Country Woman, you mention how is is just starting to settle in and get comfortable at my place.. that seems to be what he keeps saying and I am sensing that he is very afraid to get comfortable cuz I would just wind up kicking him out or whatever. So part of the issue is that he doesnt have his own nest to "own" that I think makes him feel a bit inferior or less of a man. I know that is part of his issues. I am working on just being appreciative of the time we have together, and I really am. I enjoy the time we spend together at their ranch too, we babysit together an all that too. We have a planned "date" tomorrow to go off together and I think this is great...cuz he seems very excited about it too. The last 2 months have just been so hard on me cuz the youngest from out of state was here for the summer, and I kinda got shoved to the side (and emotions ran high!), and now she is gone, we are doing damage control. I dont think he likes me pointing out that I was hurt, because he says he didnt realize he was "taking a test", and that he doesnt like to be "scolded" but I am learning that my approach with him needs work also. He said I seem to attack him with my "issues" which I probably do cuz I am hurt and insecure and have spent 2 months hanging out being patient. I think it has paid off. We seem to be growing together now instead of apart. We have alot of learning about relationships to do and I appreciate all the advice.
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A
male
reader, Wild Thaing +, writes (7 August 2008):
Country woman has some great words of wisdom. She's a hard act to follow.
You chose to be with a man that comes with baggage. If you are unwilling to share him with a family that he clearly loves, you might want to consider switching to a man whose time you can monopolize. He is clearly not that guy, and I would guess that if you gave him an ultimatum, he would be gone faster than you can say "happy family".
Your man, who seems devoted to his family, is going to stay close to his family, and if you think he is worth your effort, then you have a lot of soul searching ahead of you because it is not he who requires an attitude adjustment. Good luck and take care.
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A
female
reader, Country Woman +, writes (7 August 2008):
Personally I think you are asking a lot of a relationship that has only been happening over the last 5 months.
Your bf is very close to his family and that bond will always be very special. His oldest daughter and her husband and child are obviously people who see your bf as such an important part of their lives that they have opened up their home to him and wouldn't change that overnight. At the end of the day this seems to work for both of them right now i.e. a live in babysitter and he gets to be around his daughter and her family and most importantly his grandchild.
If the family unit has accepted you and embraced you into their lives then just appreciate the fact that they like you and if you start to put pressure onto him to be more attentive of you then this dynamic could change and they could start to resent you and also this in turn could influence the way they react to you and also what they say to their father.
He comes to yours and switches off and relaxes and catches up with sleep, this is obviously his down time and time to enjoy your adult relationship. If he is gradually moving bits into your home he is obviously starting to feel more comfortable at yours but YOU yourself have said you don't want him to move in and be his consolation prize but in turn you are jealous of his lifestyle at the ranch. Unfortunately you can't have it both ways so you either need to be grateful for the time you spend together or perhaps suggesting going over to the ranch and spending time over their with him and even babysitting with him so that he in turn sees that you support him and want to be around him and not always coming to your place for peace and rest/sleep.
You have already said that you think his daughter wants him to move on with his life and perhaps she is just being his rescue package right now until he finds the woman of his dreams and who knows that could already be you. However if after only 5 months you are making him see that you are jealous of his devotion to his family which is already making him mad you could push him further away and be the sounds of things this isn't what the daughter wants or you so don't make him chose right now and just see how things go.
Embrace life and maybe suggest a short break away for you both to spend some quality time together so he and both his daughters can see that you have his best interests at heart and even if you say it is a little treat so that he can get a break they will realise how much you care for their dad and I think you would score a few brownie points and also you get to spend quality time with your man away from both yours and the ranch. Worth a shot eh!!
Keep us posted eh!
Take care.
BFN
Country Woman
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