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female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes: My dear other half thinks his verbal abuse is just an arguement and it would be if I would agree to that.But I know there is more to it than that and it destroys me as the pattern repeats with increasing frequency.He cant see that its not a case of 'even stevens' and I think life is too short to keep repeating the same mistakes.Any thoughts or opinons anyone?It could be an arguement in terms of the fact I will hand him back my opinion as vocally as he does.Its more than an arguement in that I hate it and I hate how I feel afterwards and he feels apparantly better after it.All couples argue.But where do we draw a line? Reply to this Question
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female
reader, Anonymous 123  +, writes (14 June 2018):
 Arguments should be healthy and shouldn't be made just to prove a point. It's good to hear both perspectives but it should be dignified. No name calling, no bringing up the past, no being petty and no dragging it out beyond the conversation.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2018): [EDIT]:
"A thunderous-voice, full of bass and profanity, may force your opponent into submission; but you best remember who the hell you're talking to."
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2018): In order to have a fair and productive disagreement; you have to practice effective-communication between you and your partner. That requires both speaking AND listening.
Turning up the volume and adding a lot of force behind your voice doesn't make you right. Only facts and truth support your argument.
The weaker your argument, the louder your yelling! That's usually the case. Unless you're just dealing with someone who just likes to nag and pick petty-arguments. That's dealing with a personality-flaw. No real issues, just a grumpy or cantankerous person. Take as much as you can stand; get a lawyer, and launch them to the curb. They won't change. They get older and meaner.
People shout each other down. Men tend to assert our aggression as proof of power and authority. Implying or warning he may use physical-force and his awesome masculinity to reinforce his position, if pushed. A thunderous-voice, full of base and profanity, may force your opponent into submission; but you best remember who the hell you're talking to. Kids learn bad-behavior from people like this.
Screeching at the top of your lungs, coming up with a long list of emasculating-insults and recalling every past argument down to the last detail; doesn't add power to your argument as a woman. It mostly demonstrates how helpless and intimidated you feel; because he has testosterone to back him up, not the facts. That's frustrating and infuriating, to say the least. Let him know you won't deal with him like that; but the problem isn't over. Just bear that in-mind!
Most people call a vulgar shout-down an argument. It's nothing but pent-up hostility delivered through verbal-abuse and violence. Screaming until you're hoarse. Slamming doors, breaking furniture, punching walls, breaking dishes, and acting like a wild beast. Provoking someone beyond their threshold of control and composure. Plucking nerves!
That's all aggressive-behavior. You're furious and all you want to do is hurt somebody. You know lifting a hand will send you to jail; so you assail your partner with insults, demeaning comments, and name-calling. Rattling nerves with rage, outbursts, and tantrums that lift the roof! I hate people like that! I wouldn't spend one day with somebody who has a temper like that.
That resolves and proves absolutely nothing!
It might make a bully or a narcissist feel better; but that's all that is accomplished. There's no resolution to the disagreement; and nothing has been solved. You've intimidated someone until they've backed-down. The problem is otherwise, still there. Becoming more difficult with time.
A mean and unreasonable man like that gets his way; but he has a very unhappy and vengeful mate. He can't always win. Thus he'll loose his testicles, his assets, and his children in divorce court. All he had to do was listen. Best to kick that kind of trash to the street; before he turns his sons into his spitting-image.
It's not about winning. It's fixing the problem; and maintaining peace and order.
If you disagree, state your position supported by the facts. Listen to the other side. Emotionalizing adds flair; but doesn't turn wrong into right. Tears don't always work. Two people talking at exactly the same-time are not listening. Weigh and review all the evidence, and attempt to compromise. Talk, don't shout. It raises tension, resulting in an angry-exchange. If he yells, keep your voice down. It will bring his volume down.
You also have to come-down off your high-horses and admit when you know you're wrong. Not just fight to protect your pride. Simply insisting on being right; regardless of all the facts and evidence stacked against you. A man or a woman like that is best alone. They can't work with other people. They have anger-management issues. They're stupid; because they don't know how to "discuss" things. They don't want to. They just want to have their way. You'll have your way only so much of the time. Then you can find another place to live; and be forever-correct all by yourself.
Sometimes you think standing your ground will get you somewhere. You have to. You're nobody's doormat. So you face-off; but when you're fighting with a head-strong bully, it's a waste of time. Too often, that is the same abrasive personality and bad-attitude you knew when you were courting; but you thought love will solve that problem. You marry the fool; and you figured he or she would mellow with age.
SURPRISE!!! NO! They get even worse!
During dating and courtship, when you see red-flags; you're supposed to heed them. Not marry the bastard, and think you're going to reconstruct and give him a makeover with your love. Yes, we all argue and disagree. If you fight all the time, you're incompatible. There's never any peace.
You match temperaments. You have to judge your future by the disagreements and arguments you have beforehand. If he changes after the fact; get marriage-counseling and mediation. Insist on having a fair and equal exchange between you. If that doesn't help, you give them their walking-papers. Love for you doesn't live here anymore.
Unreasonable hardheaded people will drive you to an early grave. Better-off seeing them gone than letting them cry over your casket; while waiting for the life-insurance check.
When you're in battle, you don't really stop to think of what you need to say that will be productive; you're on the defense. You're guarding your ego, protecting your feelings; but the point of the argument and reason for the disagreement, is totally lost in all the gunfire!
Don't discuss things when you're angry. Don't pick a fight just to engage someone; because you figure they'd dismiss you if you were more direct. Walkaway from a screaming assh*le! If you can see his tonsils, but not his ears; he's not listening anyway! If she's crying, throwing temper-tantrums, packing her bags, and threatening to leave with the children. What will all the drama prove? It's dramatic and theatrical; but if you want get his attention. Calm-down and come straight to the point. Then pack, gather the young-ones and leave. Call the cops if he tries to stop you! Or, have his ass removed! It's calm-down, or get-out!
Getting to the point is the most important part of effective-communication. Not beating around the bush, bringing up other unrelated matters, throwing hints rather than articulating the details. That's why people get on each others nerves. Too much posturing and chest-pounding; and not enough on-topic discussion. Going off on tangents, trying to think of something to say that will hurt feelings; or hitting below the belt to get an emotional-knockout. Low blows are what kills any probability of coming to a compromise, any reconciliation, or solving the problem. You've gone too far! You've won your Asshat Of The Year Award!
You stop the argument when it comes down to verbal fisticuffs. You're not having a adult-discussion when all that's coming out of your mouth is spittle and snark! I've watched other people argue; and that made me tell my mate that will never ever be us.
My domestic-partner of 28 years was a lawyer. A good one. Thought he would always win disagreements; and tried to pull courthouse legal-banter to intimidate and outmaneuver my argument. I stopped him cold in his tracks, and I told him; I'd leave before I'd allow anything that walked on two-legs to walkover me. If you're wrong, you're wrong!!! Bully-tactics wins the argument; but it doesn't keep me around to put-up with the bullsh*t! We'll discuss it like gentlemen; or one of us is out of here! I can afford myself a good lawyer! See you in court!
In order for us to last 28 years; there has to be a fair exchange of give and take. I wasn't going to be bulldozed; because I couldn't out-talk him. We'd either work it out; or he'd get-out! Lawyers know how to draw compromises and agreements too; so just having a good argument against the facts doesn't always win the case. The facts win every time.
He passed away from cancer. I found new love. Same principles apply.
Learn to discuss things. Not just argue. How old do you have to grow to calm the hell down? You're trying to resolve a problem, correct a mistake, or settle a disagreement. How is yelling in each others faces going to achieve that?
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male
reader, Fatherly Advice  +, writes (13 June 2018):
 This is a very good question. Sure their are legal definitions of abuse, but what each individual needs is a definition that says I will not accept this level of behavior.
Part of the problem you are both having is that you are defining abuse on how you each feel about it. you feel bad so you say it is abuse, he doesn't feel bad so he says it isn't. His "line" is not in the same place as yours. Just because he will accept that level of bad behavior does not mean that you will.
One possibility is that one person is perceiving the attack as personal, when it is not. It is equally possible that one person is making an impersonal argument personal by labeling the person instead of the subject.
I know this is getting confusing so let me give an example. Let's say for example, you say something like That Dodge pickup is nice. He could reply Dodge is really behind in technology and the resale value will not be good in a few years. You could feel that by pointing out these non personal facts that he is disregarding your feelings or trying to make you feel stupid. Or even implying that you are stupid. That is the first possibility. On the other hand many people do make personal attacks in arguments. For example he could reply, If you weren't such a stupid ***** you would know that that truck is junk, anyone with half a brain knows . . . . and so on. The first is sensitivity, but the second is clearly Abuse.
Once again I want to encourage you to keep your line where you can be comfortable. To your own self be true. Even non abusive arguing does not have to be accepted. With this warning, if you are consistently over sensitive you may have trouble keeping friends.
On the other hand if his argument style includes personal attacks, you are better off not to be with him. Abuse escalates.
FA
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (13 June 2018):
 Learn how to fight fair?
Disagreements happens, but HOW you deal with it is what makes a difference.
Verbal abuse isn't an argument. Even if you BOTH hurl insults at each other.
There are so many ways to handle disagreements without hurting your partner. You two do it on purpose, it has become habit and "normal" - which quite frankly will be hard changing for both of you.
And Is it something both of you would change?
If HE seemingly feel better for having had verbal bashed you - is it likely he will change?
And sure all couples argue. Though I can't really remember the last time I argued with my husband. We DO disagree but we are both capable of TALKING through it and finding a compromise we are BOTH "happy" with. If need be one (or both if us) takes a little "time-out" before discussing the issue/problem/disagreement. It helps keep a cool head.
In over 20+ years my husband had NEVER called me names or been verbally abusive when disagreeing with me. And vice verse. It helps NO ONE. It doesn't resolve a thing.
What exactly do you two argue about so much about?
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