A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:I entered a graduate program (2 year length) last August where I met Wanda. She is about a decade older than me and is married with an elementary age son. I am married in my late twenties. My husband and I moved to a new part of the country just so I could attend this program (with the intention to move elsewhere afterwards). He continues to work from home, and I dived back into academics, becoming quick but casual friends with Wanda. We usually see one another once a week for class and then here or there throughout the semester for academic events. Over the last year and a half, we began hanging out intermittently. Maybe once/twice every 1-2 months, as we're both busy. Sometimes, this ranges from coffee, other times dinner at one's house with spouses and child included. Wanda has a very nice son. He is mostly well behaved and polite. Like any kid, he has his quirks, but I've always found him pleasant. When our friendship began, Wanda asked if son could come along to our occasional coffee dates, portraying that it is hard to have friends as a parent. I said yes. I understood getting a sitter is not always financially or pragmatically doable. Later, when I set out to have a holiday party for our cohort our first Christmas here, I told her to have no worries bringing son, as I wanted Wanda to be included, and as he would be the only kid at the party, I made him a special favor bag with silly stuff to keep him occupied while everyone else got cookies for theirs. I talk to son, ask about school/hobbies, and am always friendly. I like kids in small doses. Later, Wanda invited us to a casual Christmas with her family, which I found to be a sweet gesture with us being new and all. Over time, however, our hang outs have begun to revolve more and more around her son. We were invited to his birthday at first. I thought nothing of it, picked up a gift, figured it was parents wanting adult friends to hang with. But the party was just adult family. It was said children cousins couldn't make it and a kids party was happening some time later. I didn't give it much thought. But invites have evolved into "son would like to do X with you guys" or "let's see a movie... that son would like to see." We took the first couple, like lunch and some Pokemon catching in the park, but lunch chat became dominated by son and things 9 years olds like, leaving little time for adult interaction. That's how it has all gone lately. The last time I went to her house, it turned from doing crafts as a group into me playing video games with him alone. We ate take out and watched a movie with son. I left a little irritated because the entire night was treated as if I am son's friend. I'm nearly 30 years old! That's not why I am there. I realize now she is misunderstanding my original intentions here. I accommodated son for Wanda, and while he is fine and lovely in small doses, he is just Wanda's son to me. He is 9, and I don't want to hang out with a 9 year old all the time. But she tells me that son likes us so much and he is so glad we moved here. At first, I thought it was sweet, but now after several months, I have seen that this child doesn't seem to have friends of his own age. He talks about kids at school but never has kids over to play from what I see/hear. He never goes to others houses or sleep overs. I've never seen him with another kid his own age. Fast forward to the last couple months. I have developed friendships with other childless people from the cohort, and we have started to have horror game nights at my house with booze and dinner. I didn't invite Wanda to the first because son always comes with. I figured it wouldn't work. She found out, seemed disappointed, so I invited her to the next. In the week or so prior to her invitation to the next adult only hangout, the cohort (12 of us) were discussing our after graduation plans, as we are entering our final semester soon. I mentioned that my husband was wanting to find a new job and we would be doing the next leg of life in pursuit of his next goal as we've been working on mine the last few years, and I said in passing that we were beginning to think of a place we could both work in our fields and finally settle down, as we've moved a lot in the last decade. Wanda was shocked by this, visibly upset. She said, "So you know for sure you're moving back? He can't get a job here?" I felt a little interrogated but answered that we'd always know that was the next step, we had never intended to move here permanently (a detail I have mentioned freely to her before), and that there weren't many opportunities (without a pay cut) for him here. Fast forward to the horror game night. Wanda tells me (in front of others) she had "broken the news" to son that we would be moving and he was devastated. He was so disconsolate that he cried and couldn't go to sports practice that afternoon, she said. I awkwardly laughed, said "awww," commented I hope he knows it isn't personal because I had no idea what else to say. It was almost like she was guilt tripping me? She made some comments about our leaving sucking. Throughout the night, she mentioned a few times she'd like to do games at her house for all the adults, but kept making a point to say that son would have to be there, so it couldn't be inappropriate. Since that hangout, she references our leaving pretty frequently even though it is like 9 months away. Has pressed me on if I'm sure I can't make it work here. And I'm just so annoyed. A bit of an aside: We got invited to a holiday party that was adults only recently, and Wanda was mad. She tried to complain to me about it, saying the hosts (who have kids) told her it was so they could have a night off and have adult only conversation/fun. She said, "I like my kid. I like spending time with him. I don't think it is fair to son, either. He wants to hang out with Bob and Sally too." I just was like, "Welp, you don't have to go..." I thought it was rude to argue with a host like that...? And it became clear to me that this was maybe never about logistics, money, or sitters.This is weird, right? Am I wrong for being weirded out by this? I appreciate that I am well liked and that Wanda wants to keep me as a friend, but I find this leveraging of the son and almost insistence that we have a relationship very bizarre. I'm not sure what to do. I've been pulling away from the friendship a bit. I told my husband I think we should limit what invitations we take. But I guess I am confused because I wouldn't say I'm very close with these people overall. I realize being invited to Christmas or birthdays is maybe a bigger gesture than I thought it was originally. Any advice? What would you do? Thanks in advance.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (11 December 2019): I'm sorry but you sound dramatically petty.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 December 2019): This is not your problem. The boy is not your child and never will be.
Friendships come and go in life.
If you feel the boy has become reliant on your friendship just stop worrying about him.
His mother is there for him and you are not.
It's as simple as that.
You cannot be forced into being anyone's anything.
Keep a very friendly distance from now on.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 December 2019): When visiting in Wanda's domain, she sets the rules. You must play and interact with her son. He has free-reign to come and go as he pleases. He is included, no matter who visits. In that situation, you go with the house rules!
Otherwise, make friends with people who don't have children. Nothing is worse than being pretentious; or when you fake tolerating something, when it annoys you.
You can set your own boundaries, announce if children are welcome; or avoid going to gatherings, if you know Wanda and her company of one will be the main-attraction.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 December 2019): Wanda and son are a package. Therefore, inviting Wanda is a plus-one invitation; unless specified and strongly-emphasized by the host that the event or gathering is strictly for "adults only." The remedy is, don't invite Wanda; unless you want to include her son too.
Please show sensitivity towards the child's feelings, if you feel you must distance yourself. He has grown attached to you, and I suspect that he has some problems interacting with other children. I think Wanda overprotects him; thereby making it awkward for him when it comes to dealing with other kids. I have to recall from my own childhood, that I preferred being in adult-company; because childish-conversations seemed so boring and ridiculous.
I was raised under the premise "children should be seen and not heard;" and you will remain silent when adults are speaking. My grandparents used to tell me stories, and teach me about our Indigenous Native American heritage. They didn't speak down to me. I followed them around like a puppy to listen to them talk. I learned things! I respect my elders to this day! Up until I was 18, I was taught I was not on equal-terms with people twice my age and older! I had to be more mature and earn respect! Not be sassy or impudent towards adults obviously much older than me. Know my place! Inform them when grownups were out of line! They were my backup!
I was usually welcomed in the room when we had company, because it was mostly family. I was ushered-out, when grownups wanted to speak without censorship for my sake. When it came to adult-friends of the family visiting; it was strictly adults-only. Kids were present only when other kids came along with their parents. We were all sent to play somewhere well out of earshot of adult-conversation. Not so remote that we couldn't be heard. Frequently checked-on, when we got too quiet. Hushed when we got too rowdy!
Modern-society has dropped or eliminated good-manners and politeness from casual human-interface; and has become more permissive towards unconstrained conduct within social-groups. Anything goes! No filters or regard for who's present. You fly by the seat of your pants!!! Bad-manners and permissiveness is highly acceptable; thanks to social media! Preferred over order and respect for the rights and feelings of others.
Boundary-lines are blurred when it comes to what's acceptable/appropriate and what isn't. You get a lot of backlash and argument from both sides of any issue; but then people don't always use logic or fact to substantiate their position. The louder and more aggressive your argument, the more right you presume yourself to be.
That doesn't work for me, and I choose the people I belovedly call friends according to some pretty strict guidelines. I don't set the bar, unless I can meet my own standards. I practice what I preach! I respect your rules, if you respect mine. No more, no less! Yet there is always room for compromise; because being inflexible constitutes being antisocial, or shows ignorance. Lacking in social graces, class, and hospitality.
Wanda wants a social-life; but if we follow proper etiquette, you ask if you may include your children. You don't tell your host they have no say about it. Most married-adults have children, but don't presume their kids are invited. Say if alcohol will be served; or conversations could be boisterous, or riddled with expletives. I think some simple common-sense could be used both by Wanda, and those who want to extend an invitation to her. The world does not revolve around Wanda's son. Only Wanda's world revolves around him!
Wanda gets out of the expense and trouble of looking for a babysitter. She also offers her son a social-life where people have to walk on eggshells in his presence; when kids his own age are unlikely to do that. She has her reasons other than just being a mother. She is constructing a controlled-environment where her son can be the center of attention; and not have to use his own interactive-skills to fit-in or make friends his own age. Everyone corrects or controls their behavior; because there is a child in the room. I venture to speculate that it also protects Wanda; who feels she needs a buffer to be comfortable in the presence of other adults. She feels less defensive or intimidated when everyone's behavior is checked; because she can always use him as a shield or defense-mechanism.
You're moving-on anyway. I think you should be kind, and stay on friendly-terms; but less cozy with the child. Her son will just have to adapt, and learn how to deal with people moving-away; because it will happen again and again over the course of his lifetime.
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A
male
reader, no nonsense Aidan  +, writes (9 December 2019):
Her life is her son. Maybe that’s how she wants it, or maybe that’s just how it goes when you can’t get anyone to look after your child for you. The fact is, her sense of her identity is totally bound up with her son and her role as a mum. In this situation, friends and acquaintances either have to accept it or not because it’s unlikely to change.
The beauty of friendships is that you don’t just have to have the one friend. Different friends fulfil different needs in our lives. There are those who we share hobbies with; those we work with; those for those late-night conversations about our deepest secrets. There are the friends with whom you’ll party at a bar or club, and the friends with whom you’ll have coffee and lunch. There are those we hang out with frequently, and those we associate with occasionally.
Every friendship has its own boundaries. If you want to stay in this friendship, you’ll have to accept that there is no Wanda without the son, so spend time with her on occasions and at events where that’s okay with you. Be clear where things are adult only – she has to accept that having a child means that she doesn’t have the same freedom to do whatever she likes anymore, and that makes certain events and opportunities out of the question. Remember that this isn’t personal, it’s just that not everything revolves around kids for everyone else.
I expect she is upset about the possibility that you’re leaving because she feels lonely. Maybe she feels closer to you than you do her, but it’s important just to stick to your guns and be direct and clear about what your plans are. Yes, friendships come with jealousy and insecurity, just like relationships. But they can survive changes as your separate lives take you in different directions if they’re strong enough. I’m not personally sure that yours is strong enough, but only time will tell if it is genuinely two-way and not just a comfort blanket for Wanda and her son.
I wish you all the very best.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (9 December 2019): You're not wrong. Wanda is weird. She is hampering her own social life because she's obsessed with her kid. And worse, she's hampering his social life too. He's gonna grow up to a be a wee norman bates style weirdo as well. Kids need to have their own space, and so do parents. It's incredibly strange to think that you should do everything together and share friends with your kid. She has zero boundaries.
The thing is, she has no idea. If you want to be kind (but in probably a harsh way) then you should be honest with her that you want to be her friend and not her sons friend. Because I'm guessing she's lost a lot of friends from people just getting fed up with her bizarre behaviour and pulling away from her and that must be hurtful and confusing for her. She'll probably be mortally offended that you don't want to spend all your time with little diddums but at least she'll know why you stopped calling.
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A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice +, writes (9 December 2019):
 Is this weird?
Not for an only child who is a bit precocious.
Sure it's not the childhood you remember, but over the course of my life I've met a lot of different kids and this is just one possibility.
What would I do? my advice? When a kid trusts you you become a "Trusted Adult". My advice is that you take the responsibility that comes with that title. That includes being safe, and trustworthy. It doesn't require you to spend long periods of time with the kid, or stay in their life forever. It does mean that you help the transition by being understanding.
You are already being a good trusted adult. you think ahead and make sure he will have fun at your events. You don't expose him to scary horror things. Your moving seems devastating to him now, but it is just another part of life that he needs to learn about, by experiencing it.
Being a trusted adult is a big thing, I'm quite happy that you have had this chance in your life. You are doing fine.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (9 December 2019):
 I think SHE revolve her life around "Son" entirely. That is who she is Wanda THE mom. Not Wanda, the wife, Wanda the friend, the daughter, sister... whichever. JUST Wanda the mom.
Why she think it's appropriate to ALWAYS include her son I don't know. While my husband and I do MOST things with our kids (we always have, mostly because finding TRUSTWORTHY babysitter have been hard), we also DO things without them and they do things without us.
This "Son" is an only child, so perhaps also for that reason HE is the center of her universe, and thus she doesn't understand people needing a break occasionally from the RESPONSIBILITY of being a parent.
What I don't understand is WHY the husband/dad/family can't occasionally watch him. So SHE can be "JUST Wanda", maybe she doesn't want to, which is a shame.
MY thing with this is, SHE chooses to make her sun the center of her universe. While it might feel (to her) like she is being the BEST mom she can be, I don't think it will entirely benefit "Son" as it can feel isolated from his peers. Kids needs other kids to socialize with. I think for some aspects kids learn MORE from other kids than they do from adults (not on all thing, but many, like how to build friendships themselves. When kids are young(er) it's often parents introducing kids to other kids and they make friends of varying degrees. But after a certain age, kids tend to seek out other kids they WANT to befriend.
I too would be a little weirded out if an ADULT presumed I wanted to befriend their CHILD, not them. Sure I'd be nice to their kid, because I am friend/acquaintance with their kid(s) but I would not feel my job was to placate the kid or entertain said kid.
I think she invited you two to the birthday/Christmas because she wanted MORE people around FOR her son's sake. Like a, see you don't need friends your age, because look we have friends!
He might not HAVE any real friends among his peer, his mom might worry that other kids will be a bad influence on him or whatnot, so she might "isolate" him in an effort to protect him.
I think it's VERY normal for ADULTS (even the ones with kids) to WANT to have social interaction, like a party or game night WITHOUT their kids around. Doesn't mean they don't like their kids. They just want to let their hair down a little.
I don't think you can say or do anything that will make her understand that it's HER you want to befriend primarily, as an ADULT to an ADULT. So yes, I think I would pull back a bit too.
How does you husband feel about all this?
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