A
male
age
51-59,
*oo_Trusting
writes:Should I leave my wife?I have always trusted her, but because she had gone out one night about 5 years ago and returned home at 4:30 in the morning, I had started to have concerns. That night, I was supposed to pick her up at 11:00. I had called all night and it turns out she turned her ringer off. When she came home very drunk, I asked where she had been, and she said she was just hanging out with her friends. The next day, she said she couldn't remember exactly.Fast forward a year. She went out of town and left Facebook open. I decided to do what I had never done before...I snooped. I looked at all the messages from that night. The one that caught my eye was her friend asking what had happened to her when the bar closed at 2:00. It was then that I decided to do a little more snooping. I found various messages between her and some of her guy friends. In one, she was trying to get a guy she knew from out of town to meet her at a spa that I was sending her to for a weekend of pampering and relaxation. It didn't appear that he went from the messages, but then a couple of months later, they were to meet up in a town about 2 hours away where he was visiting on business. That day, she went to "visit a friend" in a nearby town and got lost for 3 or 4 additional hours. Another series of messages with another male friend had some questionable references and innuendo, and even a message saying that another girl he knew was into doing the "threesome" thing. There are others, but these are likely enough to get my point across.So, when she returns from her trip, I confront her. She admits the guy she planned the spa thing with had been sort of an on-line fling for a few months after they had kissed at a party, but nothing more happened. She said she recalled some details from the "missing" night, all of which suggested she went back to a friend of mine's place...and not a friend I trust. She then admitted she had been talking to him at the bar, but still doesn't remember anything happening, and a girl knows when something's happened. The threesome thing she blew off as a reference to the 3 of them getting coffee, that they always talked like things were something other than what they really are.I asked to see her main e-mail account. She said she had deleted the account months ago, and I believed her. That is, until someone asked her if they could send her something via e-mail a few months later. She gave that address. I confronted her, she said she had reactivated it because that was the one everyone knew. I said she told me it was deleted so she could get rid of the evidence. She said that I was sort of right, but it was just more of the same, nothing bad.I tried to let it go. I tried to tell myself that nothing happened. I told her that the emotional affair hurt as much as if she had physically cheated. To this day, she maintains that she did nothing wrong, and has done nothing to convince me that it won't happen again. Since I found that first indication that she had been unfaithful, I have gone back to a hundred different occasions where I now think that, on at least a few, she was unfaithful.We recently celebrated our 24th year together, 17th married, and I no longer feel I can put this behind me. Not only have I found some other questionable communications with other men that happened after the initial confrontation, she still maintains a Facebook friendship with the man she had the emotional affair with, even though I have asked repeatedly for her to stop. She says I'm being stupid, that it was just a silly phase. Recently, she said she wanted to go to a conference an hour away and suggested she just stay the night. Well, guess who else is there? Is it time to cut my losses? I feel like it may be...
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female
reader, Honeypie  +, writes (9 January 2017):
 Thanks for the update!
And "congrats"! on deciding to put BOTH your and HER happiness first and end it.
Good luck with the new lady and the new life.
A
male
reader, Too_Trusting +, writes (9 January 2017):
Too_Trusting is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI decided to provide an update, as so often when I read other posts, I wonder what ultimately happened.Shortly after posting this, I decided that perhaps I needed to go for counselling to try to get my head straight. I should have done it long before. I came to realize that potential indiscretions were not my only problem. Through talking about it, I started to see a number of patterns that I founf disturbing, both from her behaviour and my own. I came to realize that neither of us were happy. If I had realized these things before the probable cheating, maybe we could have worked on it. Unfortunatley, I had already left mentally after finding out. So in answer to my question to all of you, I chose "yes". I actually left her in March.The good news is, I am now dating a wonderful woman, and perhaps that's the reason I wanted to close the chapter on this. My ex has moved on as well and I think she knows it was for the best. She seems happier. I'll likely never know for sure whether she cheated, but now I really don't care. Thanks to everyone for your advice, it defintely helped.
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A
male
reader, Too_Trusting +, writes (22 July 2015):
Too_Trusting is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell, one little update.When she had originally told me about this conference out of town, I said there was no way she was going without me. She raised some objections, but finally agreed. After some suggestions from you folks, the next time she asked if I really wanted to go(that was yesterday) , as she and a co-worker that was going with her might get silly and annoying, I said that it was fine, she should go on her own. She said her friend from work wanted to stay the night (as I'm sure Mr. Out-of-town-online-affair is as well). I said she should. So, a call or two later by me and we'll see where this goes. I've already made up my mind, but ammunition is a good thing.
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A
male
reader, Too_Trusting +, writes (25 June 2015):
Too_Trusting is verified as being by the original poster of the questionIt has been at least a year since I brought this up with my wife. However, any time a name comes up that was in one of those messages I had read, it all comes flooding back. You would think she would avoid talking about these people.
I am going to let her do whatever she wants to do, and I will get the evidence I need. Because I haven't brought it up, I think she is starting to feel a bit more secure and will slip up. She may not be as quick to delete things now, as she doesn't think I'm checking her messages or checking in on her activities.
I believe the most recent poster was correct in her evaluation of my wife's desire to split up rather than admit what had happened. She would rather avoid things than face up to them in every facet of her life. Why would this be any different? I think initially she thought that if she told the truth, I would leave her because of what she had done. I can't say for sure that I wouldn't have. Now, I think she just says she wants to split up instead of talking about it because she believes I will drop the subject. In her defence, it has worked the last two times. The problem is, by not talking about it, she has made me feel worse, and all of that uncertainty and broken trust has culminated to where I am today...knowing that it is over.
When all is said and done, this will be the hardest thing I have ever done. I think that's why it's taken this long. I'm afraid of this process and what follows it. It has been easier to plug along, pretending I don't feel this way, knowing the alternative would be difficult and painful. I feel guilty for leaving her and I haven't even done it. I know I'm justified, but I can't help feeling guilty. I don't know how it will all play out. She is very vindictive, so it could get ugly. Thanks to her going back to school for 5 years, we lost any equity we had in our house, so as far as assets go, there's really nothing of high value. I would be very happy to leave with just a few things I brought in with me. We make the same money, and in terms of personal assets, I would say we're pretty even. It's really just the house, which I am happy to sell, and I think she would be too. I guess we'll see.
I'll try to get on here and update everyone once it all plays out. Thanks again.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 June 2015): Oh,no, OP,I had a hunch! I thought she might say "umm,no" or "let's just split up" as she has told you!I think you've already alerted her way too much (demonstrated by mode of "instant delete". She would have been easier to catch in the act if she didn't know about your suspicions)Ok,given this new info,I personally think, best new route (realistically) is play the patient saint for the next 2-3 months. NEVER let this come up again. Kill her with kindness.Meanwhile, System folder, C-file restore (even things that have been deleted can be restored, including I believe, the wizardry of recovering e-mails from deleted browser history. Don't know how to do that,but I am sure you can find out).Also, do let her go on whatever business trip or whatever else she wants to go to. Organise a guy's week-end and keep her up with updates (photos, texts, the whole she-bang). This is where your PI comes in- better to pay a couple of grand than half of all you own,no??So you're on your holiday, she thinks you don't suspect anything, meanwhile your PI is doing whatever he is paid to do.Evidence-bam :) I know it's painful,but you've already spent several years torturing yourself inside. A couple of more months to ensure a trouble-free future is the best I think.Also, moral blackmail (I know, I know, but none of us are saints and in my opinion she has done far worse to you).So MB 101: you have your evidence ready, you have a legally binding agreement that states that she agrees to a division of assets that is favourable to you (60:40 or everyone goes out with whatever they own, whatever you think is reasonable) and tell her that unless she signs this and gets out of your life, the divorce will go to court and her actions and infidelity will be exposed for all and sundry to see.I have a feeling she would agree to this (as long as you're reasonable, re:division).It will be best all round-otherwise lawyers will get whatever you're supposed to split. Divorce proceedings are ridiculously costly.Btw, OP, I think I know why she said: "Let's just split up" as well-she is a weak woman and would rather NOT face her demons, would rather NOT deal with the problem (because it means she has to face her own wrong actions and to admit she did wrong. This will be very hard, nearly impossible for her).Therefore, it is that inner knowledge of knowing that she did wrong,but not wanting everyone to learn about it that I think might push things in your favour.I know that honest people (like the aunties and uncles on here) would not understand this, but essentially you've to beat her at her own game. And that is impossible to do unless you understand how they think...It took me a year and a half to even begin to comprehend! And I'm not sure I'm the wiser or better for it, but I sure as hell, would not recommend any one to have to go through this type of hell emotionally and financially at the same time :(
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A
male
reader, Too_Trusting +, writes (25 June 2015):
Too_Trusting is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you for the feedback everyone. I have been continuing to keep tabs on things, checking e-mail and Facebook whenever I get the opportunity. I think she is a lot more careful now, as she will say she has chatted with someone on Facebook, but then I don't see any record of it, so I think she is in "instant delete" mode.
To answer one item that came up, we don't have any children, so that is a positive moving forward. I have always been very good at reading people, and as hard as it was to see it at the time, I could tell every time that she lied to me. I asked her if there had been anyone else after the first find, she paused...a long pause, and then calmly said no. To me, it was the internal "Should I tell him or not" going on during that pause...the decision was "not".
I agree with one of the posters. If she had just told me the truth, no matter how upsetting, I would feel much better about it today. Because she was dishonest, I'm left to wonder and struggle with what my own mind comes up with, which may or may not be worse than the reality.
I have brought it up with her on a couple of occasions since, stating that I was still not sure that she had told me the truth and that it was a nagging feeling I couldn't shake. Her reply was, "Well, I knew this wouldn't go away, maybe we should just split up." It bothered me that she saw splitting up as the rationale choice, rather than just talking about it. She wouldn't even entertain the idea of discussing my concerns.
I think I know what I have to do. Staying has been the easiest and safest choice. I have to admit that I got caught up in the "time invested" fallacy, and in turn have just wasted even more time.
Thanks for your input, I will go about the task as intelligently as I can. At least the anger I felt 4 years ago won't be the driving force. Now, it's about making my life right again.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (24 June 2015): This story screams "she cheated!"
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 June 2015): SVC, I agree, but if she is indeed doing what we are all thinking: they've been together for 24yrs and married for 17!!I don't know the laws in Canada, but I'm sure that they would look favourably upon such a long-term commitment and it is more than likely that unless he has proof, she might get 50% of his assets?Where is the fairness in that?If indeed he finds no proof (keep up the investigation for a bit,btw) and he still feels that he can't trust her- then by all means, counselling is a good next step.But,ok so what if she says: "umm,nooo" rather than say "yes, sure I want to stay". Then he is just alerting her about what he wants to do and he won't get out of this easy (financially or emotionally,especially if there are kids involved).I'm just recommending "a la Katie Holmes" to the OP. The surprise element worked well for her. Whereas "a la Nicole Kidman" lost everything (well,her children with him anyway, which I find is very sad).But,you're in a way right-after you know for sure (it's a long thing to throw away on simply a hunch! even if it turns out to be the right hunch!), as SVC very rightly stated you need to make up your own mind first-whether you want to go or you want to leave, before you approach her.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (24 June 2015): Of course you leave!She already left your relationship years ago!The NERVE of her to try to explain it all away as if she did NOTHING wrong!The nerve!She seems to really love herself. And be confident in the fact you are a DOOR MAT!!It's time to put on your big boy pants and show her the door.She will keep doing to this to you.It will only get harder for you.And it is a matter of time before your relationship ends anyway... if you don't leave now, your trust issues will become much too heavy and much too burdensome.Why stay and put up with all that shit when you can leave now and not have to endure any additional pain?
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (24 June 2015):
 It seems to me that even if she was telling the truth (which I doubt she is) that you don't trust her. Trust is the most important thing.
IF you want to ATTEMPT to save the marriage (you both have to WANT to btw) then I suggest you tell her that you want the two of you go to go counseling and figure it out.
IF she refuses, well there is your answer as to what SHE wants. Personally I would not want to be married to someone who does not want to be married to me.
Last night I was setting up access for my husband to a program we use for calenders and such. I had years of notes in there about his drinking and his abusive behavior. I did not want him to see it and upset himself so i said "don't log on to the journals till I delete the stuff that's going to upset you"
He asked why it would upset me and I told him it was my notes preparing for our divorce (it was) but he got sober so now I'm staying. But I didn't lie to him.
The truth no matter how painful is always more welcome than the lies that make you question everything. And her lies are downright insulting.
Ask her if she wants to stay married. She will say yes.
then say "you have to go to couples counseling with me before I will even consider it" and go from there.
best of luck.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 June 2015): My first reaction was 1) this happened 5 years ago and you're still upset now?But then I read on- recent demands are what might have re-activated your jealous streak (whether based on the truth or not, you won't know without evidence).I strongly advise you to get that evidence. PI and off you go.Keep it cool (hard, I know), get your evidence (if there is indeed foul play) and then get divorced.Otherwise your alimony bill...well,it could be very high and hate it when the bad guys get away with it.It's a win-win really.If she is cheating=she gets what she deserves=i.e. no money (I hope!). If she is not cheating=you're reassured that she was telling the truth and you were worrying about nothing all along.Both outcomes are actually favourable to you, so go ahead and do it.
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A
male
reader, Garbo +, writes (24 June 2015):
 I think your wife cheated, emotionally for sure and physically probably, and was planning to cheat on you on several additional occasions. You have definitive evidence and her admittance on the emotional cheating so that one is a slam dunk. However, you don't have any evidence that she physically cheated although lot of indicators exist that she did. Therefore, I'd suggest that you lay off "confronting" her and let her do whatever she wants during which time you should establish that "slam dunk" evidence of her physical cheating. You may have to hire a private invastigator Hutu think that is well worth it because you need that evidence as oppose to circumstances which she explains away. I think you are headed for divorce, that everything she says does not add up, that she has shattered all trust in this marriage and that your task should be to go about rationally so that the divorce ends up as favorable for you as possible. Your post was a stomach-churning read, I feel awful for you and I hope you start focusing on your future because she has shattered any little bit of trust you have and seems not to care about it either.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (24 June 2015):
Only you can decide if you have had enough.
I think your wife is full of BS. She "can't remember" a night out at a bar where she came home at 4:30 in the morning? - absolute lie. But since you "swallowed" the lie she just continued till you caught her in something else.
YOUR wife doesn't think she is doing ANYTHING wrong and she doesn't seem to care that YOU do.
It's not just a "silly" phase. It's her cheating on you because she WANTS to.
Now normally I would suggest you two get some counseling or TRY and work on it, but she CLEARLY don't give a hoot. She thinks because she comes HOME to you, that everything is fine.
I would not be OK with MY spouse to treat me like I'm an idiot all the while he has one affair after another. Emotional or physical, doesn't matter. Her wanting to meet up with one of these men makes me think it's not at all "just" emotional.
And for her to pull the: "Oh 3-some means us 3 meeting for coffee" How dense does she think you are?
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