A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:My wife has a friend who has been through a lot in her life. She got married and really lived a controlled life under her ex before they got their divorce. He was very controlling and well now she is has much more freedom (you will see the relevance later). She lives far away from any blood relatives as she is a first generation immigrant and the only one in her family to immigrate.Her ex was a Class A jerk...she did so much for him and still is tied to this loser a** through alimony. Lets just say this she went from being a controlled stay at home mother...to putting herself through college while he pissed their money away on fad business opportunities that he was chasing that never made them any money, just lead them to financial loss and living with their kids in his parents basement. Anyways, enough about him....he was an absolute loser and she tried really hard to give him every chance to be a husband/father. Just know that is the backstory.So she finally gets out of this marriage and has really never experienced freedom or dating etc. She had married young, had kids, etc. and for the past 2 years has been in the middle of a really nasty divorce. So now she really is embracing her freedom.I have no problem with this...get out and enjoy life by all means! So where is the problem?The problem is she wants my wife to go out and party with her, which my wife really doesn't want to do at all. Not the way the friend wants to party at least. The friend has been pretty much married or in a serious relationship her entire life, so she wants to party hardcore. Neither my wife or I would have a problem with this...to a certain degree. I have a ton of trust in my wife and would absolutely trust her in any scenario. My wife has always been more than welcome to go out to the clubs with her friends, I have never interfered with this or restricted her as if I owned her.But the way the friend is pushing this is rubbing both of us the wrong way. The friend is constantly giving me crap....saying "come on let her (my wife) go out" (WTF? I have never not let her go out?!? If anything my wife doesnt want to go out because she doesnt want to be put into an awkward position. See this friend is living a very promiscuous life right now....a night out doesnt just end at the club. My wife also knows she is not one to let a friend go to some stranger's house alone, whether it be some afterparty or just solo...but this obviously puts my wife into a position that is awkward as she has zero interest in these types of scenarios. Both wife and I know we can trust my wife, but we do not trust the friends judgment as she is just living recklessly.Most recently the friend has been pushing for a girls trip to sin city. Once again I trust my wife...no problem. Friend gets a bit pushy as if I said no...when reality is I said it was 100% up to my wife whether she wanted to go...period. She goes on rambling about it...she is a wee bit tipsy on wine...and even making statements like "it'll be so much fun...the bed is gonna be ROCKIN'"Like seriously, wtf? These are the statements that make BOTH me AND my wife want to say no. My wife does not want to be put into a situation as such and has been upfront about it. My wife does want to go out with her...but not to the extremes the friend wants to go. Going to the night club is her limit...no after parties, no friends houses after, etc. But the more insistent the friend becomes my wife then reduces it to getting together for coffee, lunch, etc. But the friend seems to dismiss it all and blames it as me being controlling over my wife and that I don't trust her (my wife). I do trust my wife, but I do NOT trust the friend...that part is 100% true. The friend would put my wife into a very awkward position, even a position of potentially being raped, with her reckless behavior.We are trying to be respectful and understanding that she has all these pent up emotions and that she missed out on the partying stages and is making up for lost time. But she can't expect people to put their families at risk so we can enable her party-girl life.I don't know if there is really a question or a request for advice, more than am/are I/we doing wrong? Should we give up on this girl and chalk it up as a lost cause? We don't want to abandon her, but her lifestyle really does not match up with ours at all and my only irritation is her insisting that I am being controlling, when I am not and both my wife and I tell her this!
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (3 January 2023): Friends are supposed to be people you like, respect and enjoy spending time with. You are not her therapists, you speak about not wanting to abandon her as if you are somehow medical experts who she needs. You are just ordinary folk same as her, you are as clueless as her. She is making the enormous mistake of acting like the local bike, making a lot of big mistakes regarding her future and personal welfare. She is happy to include you in this, happy if you also suffer or struggle because of her choices, this means she does not care about you!
Why don't you concentrate on friends you have things in common with and who have more common sense, it seems to me that one of the reasons your spending time on this one is because you have nothing better to do with your time.
Being able to say "sorry I cannot come out with you tomorrow already got plans" when it is true is the easiest way to solve this. But you are allowed to lie. You are allowed to say you have plans when you do not - it is called self preservation. If you do this often enough your loopy friend will have no choice but to start to go out on her own or find others to go out with, and you will soon become old news.
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (31 December 2022): You say this woman's ex husband is a total loser and she ws the wise one. But she does not show any wisdom or intelligence now so not so sure that is how it was. You heard her version where she left bits out and added bits to make it sound better than the truth. I personally would not let my wife go anywhere near such a woman, she sounds far too daft and irresponsible and licentious, and my wife would not go anywhere near such a woman anyway. If this friendship continues there will be tears later, mark my words, you lay with dogs you catch fleas.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (31 December 2022): Don't interfere or speak up, it makes you seem like the bad guy. Leave it to your wife to figure out and decide as she goes along. My wife has a neighbour who expects her to see her a lot, every time the neighbour is home alone with no family about she expects my wife to go over or b e glued to the end of the phone or let her come over for hours on end. But my wife is smart, she made it clear to her that she is too busy for all that and is glad to arrange something now and then when it suits her too.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (31 December 2022):
 OP,
I think your wife is handling this just fine BUT she feels like she CAN talk to this friend and maybe suggest the friend gets some therapy, it seems like she went through Hell and now she is being careless with her own life, thinking that she can somehow play catch-up or have a do-over. That is not how life works.
"But the friend seems to dismiss it all and blames it as me being controlling over my wife and that I don't trust her (my wife)."
I wouldn't worry. As long as your wife trusts YOU and YOU trust your wife, and as long as you two have open communication.
If I were in your wife's shoes I'd probably lower the amount of going to bars/clubs contacts. If that is not really something she wants. She (your wife) HAS to set some boundaries for what she will accept/want to do. Which it seems like she IS doing. I would also have an honest talk with this friend and let her know that SHE (your wife) is just not into partying - she has outgrown that stage in her life. She just wants a happy life, with a loving spouse etc.
" But the more insistent the friend becomes my wife then reduces it to getting together for coffee, lunch, etc."
The friend sees YOU as the "enemy" because she sees ALL men as being like her husband. It makes it easier for her to paint the world black and white in that sense. All men are bad because HER ex was bad. She needs help that your wife can't give her, she NEEDS a therapist/counselor to unpack the stuff she went through with her ex. And she NEEDS to focus on being the BEST parent she can be to her kids, not go out sleeping around and putting herself (and your wife) in dangerous situations.
Be OK with the friend thinking you are "the bad guy" for not wanting your wife to risk her marriage and life to please this friend. Why do I say this? Because you can't change her mind when she ISN'T in her RIGHT mind.
" But she can't expect people to put their families at risk so we can enable her party-girl life."
She really can't. But she does. Her family fell apart so why would she give a damn about yours? Misery wants company.
Perhaps your wife can look into some therapists/counselors who dealt with domestic mental abuse and pass on the numbers/names to her friend. She (your wife) can't MAKE her go but she can suggest it.
Lastly, you write:" The friend would put my wife into a very awkward position, even a position of potentially being raped, with her reckless behavior."
This is 100% not OK. But again it seems like your wife is trying to BE her friend but distancing herself from the dangerous situations, which is good. Might be that your wife needs some firmer boundaries here.
The friend doesn't care about herself and her own life. While pretending that partying it up is somehow a great idea. It's not. It's self-destructive. You see it, your wife sees it, but SHE (the friend) refuses to acknowledge it.
I know it sucks to see a friend go down a dark path and you can't follow to keep them safe, but your wife needs to accept that SHE can not fix this friend all on her own. The friend can't fix her life by screwing around either. She needs WAY more help than your wife can give.
I think it's nice that you don't want to abandon her, but you also CAN NOT let her drag you down either.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (30 December 2022):
My wife had a friend like this. She was very irresponsible and would do things like go out with my wife, go home with a guy, and leave my wife by herself to get home. It made me furious. You would think it would make my wife upset, too, but not at first it didn’t.
I got the same treatment you do. My wife and her friend both said I was controlling. Her friend called me mean, talked bad about me, and encouraged her to leave me, which luckily she didn’t listen to. Both women gave me a lot of grief. One night my wife didn’t come home until after sunrise and all she will tell me to this day is that her friend left with a guy, she was drunk, and another guy stayed with her until she sobered up. Stayed with her where exactly? The bars had closed. I am not sure if my wife cheated on me. I would like to think not, but even being put in that situation was unfair to us both. For all I know she was sexually assaulted. She certainly could have been - or worse!
So what ended up happening was that eventually my wife realized this other woman was irresponsible, was taking advantage of her, and did not have her best interests at heart. It took a lot longer than it should have, because quite frankly I think my wife was having a good time out after having been married for so long.
I think in your scenario all you can do is trust your wife and eventually she will stop going out with this friend. The friend will call her a bore, realize she can’t use her anymore, and move on. Maybe tell your wife what happened to my wife. That she may find herself alone and drunk in a strange place with her friend nowhere in sight, because that it what friends like this do. I would also say that even though it makes sense to try to control your wife (for example making sure she calls you every hour) it is counterproductive. It will just make her want to pull away and make the friend seem correct in her evaluation of you. Eventually, your wife will figure it out in her own.
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