A
female
age
,
anonymous
writes:I am a 65 year old woman who is happily married. Up until a few years ago I owned and ran a successful business with a lot of staff. I closed it down and retired because I wanted a peaceful life instead of the constant invasion of clients coming to my office for consultations. It meant giving up a very high salary but having a peaceful life where I was not at other peoples' beck and call was more important to me. My husband retired so we could get a social life together, join clubs, meet couples, for the first time in our lives as we had both dedicated most of our adult life to working long hours before.Here is the snag. I meet women who say they are looking to make friends and it is always the same. Their idea of friends (they are always housewives or people who are on benefits and never worked seriously, short of money etc) who expect to be able to turn up on doorstep to visit me whenever the mood takes them.I am used to a secretary speaking to potential clients and arranging appointments with people - and making sure that I always have ample notice - and not too many people on same day.Because I am retired and people know I spend a lot of time at home - I don' drive and am disabled - people assume that if I am at home they can come over, when they want for as long as they want. And it is always the same. They tell me all about their fantastic social life with other people and only want me to help them with paperwork, making phone calls, legal advice and all sorts of stuff they would normally have to pay other people to do. Stuff they and their friends are no good at. It is very much like being treated as an unpaid secretary. When I myself had a secretary doing all of these things for me before I closed down my business. It's not socialising. They show no interest in me at all, and no interest in doing normal social things. If I suggest they arrange to get together to go for a meal or whatever they make excuses or say they never make plans and always do everything on the spur of the moment - which I know is untrue....i.e. I must see you today, today is the only day I am free, I never make plans, I cant see you tomorrow I am seeing X then, and the day after I have arranged to see Y, and the day after that I am seeing W, so the only way I can see you is if it is today - yes I know it is already 3 pm but that is how it is I don't make plans!And the only reason they want to come over is for free professional help anyway. I would have been better off not retiring! Anyway, I want to be getting out, not stuck indoors.None of these women work or have any commitments. Most are 65 plus. It would be very easy for them to say ok I will see you on friday at 11 am and stick to it.But they cannot be bothered because something more exciting might turn up for friday and they only want to come to me for free professional help or when they have a totally empty day at last minute. Which I find very hurtful and selfish.My husband and I go out tomorrow to a few things when we can and when my health allows. And we are making a few couples as friends where we go out for a meal together. But its hard when in your sixties as most couples already have a lot of family and friends and dont have time for more. I always find that the wife will start to suggest that she can come over to see me at my house for (free) professional help but I dont allow it. I don't even allow the few clients I kept on when closing down the business to come over, all of those consultations are done by phone or email, far less time consuming and intrusive.Its supposedly socialising and it would be a one way street.It would make a tremendous difference to have some real friends who do not only remember I exist when they want to save a few thousand dollars on legal advice etc or insist they are only interested in getting together if it is same day at five minutes notice when it suits them.No good suggesting meet up groups etc, there are none within travelling distance and no we are not going to set one up ourselves, it is too much hard work and time, and we are wanting a quiet restful life now, not getting all busy again. I've run such things in the past and they are very time consuming - like a full time unpaid job. Ive also run charities and will not go down that route again, this is about having a social life. Otherwise I am better off returning to running a proper business.Here is a typical example or what happens. I met a lady called X and we became sort of friends. About same age. She was due to go into hospital for an operation. She wen t in and kept ringing me asking me to sort out her cat, shopping, a wheelchair when she came out etc.Loads of phone calls and all to help her - which I gladly did. She promised me that when she came out of hospital and returned home she would ring me. Nothing.A month later still nothing. I got concerned about her as she lives alone. I don't usually turn up at peoples uninvited but every time I rang her no answer and no return of phone messages so did not know what to think. My husband took me to see if she was ok.She was fine! She went on and on about how she had been at home for three weeks and had been in touch with "all of my friends" and had met up with them all and had lots of arrangements set up for meeting others.Nothing about why she did not ring me. No thanks for organising cat shopping and wheelchair. No talking about phoning me or getting together with me. She expected me to help her with her housework and expected my husband to go back the day after to collect a lot of rubbish from out the front and take it down the tip.No explanation as to how come it is always me she asks for all these things and never her "real friends" that she phones and sees a lot. She knows I am disabled and knows I am not well enough to do my own housework!Then about six months later she remembers I exist!She rings me to say she needs my help. Not it would be nice to get together! She said she is now going to hospital regularly and it makes it awful for her to watch her favourite television programme. So she needs me to make sure I record it three times a week and that she can come and go from my house whenever the mood takes her to sit in my lounge and watch it.This would mean that three times a week or so she just turns up and takes over. And, she is often very early or very late or says she will come and then changes her mind and doesnt turn up - a lot of inconvenience and hassle. Of course I said no.She nagged and nagged. I asked her how come her "real friends" do not do this for her. She said they are too busy - really? These are people who are on benefits and do not work at all, many of them lay about in bed all morning and dont get up till lunch time.It is more likely that they go out a lot or are not reliable or are not interested.She went off in a huff and then after a few weeks rang me to say she is very sorry for asking me to do this. She understands it is a huge ask and could be inconvenient etc,but she desperately needs me to help her with it as otherwise she will miss her programme.She was not sorry at all, she was saying all the same again. She could have got a dvd and recorded the programme or got one of her "real friends" to do it.She explained that she did not count me as a friend, she saw all the others as friends and me as her go to person to help her when she needs help!Then this turns into how she needs my help to get a book published (Ive had five books published) and nagging me to do this for her. Of course none of her real friends ever have, they have never even worked!I've had many years of my clients coming to me as their go to person when they need help. But at least they paid for my help and time and make proper appointments.I didnt retire from that to end up doing virtually the same thing for free.I would love to have one or two decent female friends who are friends with me because they like my company, where we are on the same wave length, not who only come to me when they have a slack boring day to fill or want some sort of help they would have to pay others for.It makes me feel as if I am one of their unpaid staff rather than a friend, and we are not friends at all.Like I have to pay for the privilege of their company.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (30 December 2022): Hello honeypie. Thank you for your reply but I have done more than my fair share of voluntary and charity work and setting up and running big clubs, it is time consuming hard work and boring. Please forget this idea that if you do voluntary work you meet others who can become friends. It does not work that way, and if you do meet people they are not people you have enough in common with to want to become friends with. The whole idea was to concentrate on socialising and relaxing, I did not give up extremely interesting work and a very good income to do boring menial things instead. If I wanted to do more voluntary charity work I would be running the show as I did before, not struggling to get out just to wash up or hand out leaflets. It gets even more ridiculous when I struggle to keep on top of my own chores at home and would need to abandon them to go and do it.We will continue to go to the social club we go to when I am able to - whist, and meet up with the couples we know we are on the same wavelength with - but otherwise I am better off expanding my professional business.I've spoken to other people who have been in similar situations and who understand - my brother in law is a lawyer and found the local clubs and groups boring, nobody there on his level. He also had people forever wanting to get free advice or help or money off of him and got sick of it. People he had nothing in common with anyway.The extra money that comes in will be very handy because I can see the time coming when we need a full time gardener and cleaner etc. People should not assume that professionals and those who have worked hard can afford to work for free.It would make more sense for me to work longer hours and give some of the money to charity than to give them a whole day of doing something menial and boring that an unskilled school leaver could have done instead of me.But as you know the fact she saw others as her friends to socialise with and me as a convenience to help upset me, so once again another good reason not to go down the voluntary and charity route, because people only see you in terms of how useful you are then, not as an individual, a person with your own needs and feelings.I will continue to go to the social club we go to now - whist - because at least there the people are hard working, smart, not targeting me as the one who should solve all their problems or give them money, capable people. They go there to socialise and intelligent conversation. Believe me someone who talks about their business is far more interesting than someone who tells me they cannot pay their rent and can I give them money to help them out.My husband is in the same boat as me. Always owned his own business, very smart and driven, knowledgeable and qualified, he also does not want to be "friends" with people who only remember he exists when he is useful or when they want money. I was doing three jobs, living alone and totally self reliant at the age of 15.
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (30 December 2022): There seem to be some sexist views here. If a professional man had worked very hard all of his life and then when in his 60s decided to retire and concentrate purely on a social life when he can, struggling with being disabled and not having a car, nobody would question it. But for some reason everything thinks that a woman's time is worthless, she should just get busy with anything and not be picky about what or who. I would think that if you wanted to do more voluntary/charity work you could run a charity again, rather than be a foot soldier taking orders, but why bother?
You chose to retire so that you could rest for a change.
A woman who has worked very hard all of her life is entitled to not work at all, especially if disabled.
As a professional person who is used to seeing clients who pay per consultation I would imagine there were times when you turned clients away because they were not a good fit? Yet if you turn away people who want to be fair weather friends who just take and do not give and have nothing in common with you wiseowl calls this being snobby. Be snobby then.
I am a professional person in a similar situation but younger. I don't know about you but it took me blood, sweat, tears, a lot of determination and money to get to that stage. I can promise you that when my time comes to retire and relax more I will not be standing on a street corner rattling a box, handing out leaflets or sweeping up at the local charity office either. Cannot think of anything more boring. And like you say you would be neglecting your own things to find time to do it, and not meet the sort of people who are on your level. You want to meet people who are industrious, capable and smart, not lazy, scroungy and uneducated.
I am now finalising my own plan for when my time comes and to be honest it seems to me that the best way forward is not to retire at all. Because I know that if I do everyone will expect me to waste my time on boring, menial charity work or doing favours for people instead. Now let me see. I work as a freelance reporter, every day is different, it pays well and I can do it well into old age. Would I give that up so that I can hand out leaflets or sweep up or wash up -no. One thing nobody thought of here is that some people cannot easily afford to retire - not financially. That makes it even more ridiculous to retire from interesting and well paid work and then do menial boring tasks for free instead. A lot of professional people do not have a pension of any sort and have to think twice about such things.
I know some will say ah but if you go and do charity / voluntary work you meet others and maybe make friends. That is not true. If you are a washer upper you will be the only washer upper there. And well heeled successful professionals will not be offering to do it. If by chance you do meet someone else there that will be the one who has no skills or talents or qualifications and had to make do with that slot. How do I know? Common sense - and my sister went to work in charity shops. She was bored and wanting to be helpful but her background was that of an office manager. She ended up in a charity shop and met six different other charity shop workers and was not at all impressed at their lack of sense and skills. They were not the sort of people she would want to work with regularly or make friends with, and they were people she would have chatted to and got to know if she had simply walked into the shop looking around as a customer.
My brother had a similar problem to you. He is now 70. He was very high up in banks and retired a bit younger. He wanted to forge a social life for himself. His solution was to join up with a workshop where he does three hours each week for free. But he is not being asked to do menial tasks like washing up, he runs it, and he has to use a wealth of knowledge to be able to. The other men who volunteer there are like him, very well educated - not asking him for one sided favours or money - otherwise he would not bother.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (30 December 2022):
I work in a field where people constantly want free advice from me. Often, I am willing to help. It feels good to be a respected professional at something. However, if that is ALL they wanted to do I would tell them that we’ve had enough shop talk and I want to talk about something else. If they want to be friends they get the idea. If not, I standley rarely hear from them anymore. I suggest you adopt the same attitude. The people who aren’t acting like friends aren’t friends. Stop spending time with them. If they show up tell them you are busy but you can maybe meet for lunch sometime. Eventually, you will figure out who is worth your time.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (29 December 2022): You judge people far too harshly.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (29 December 2022): Hello lady, I can see where you are coming from and feel for you. If you have run a very successful business, with a lot of staff, for years, I am sure you don't need advice about saying no to people when they try it on. You would never have been successful if you were too soft or naive or generous.
I've read your post carefully and see there are various factors here. Disabled, unable to do your own housework and chores easily. Used to earning a high income would mean that you would not be interested in working as a cleaner or similar anyway.
The notion that you can swap favours with people who are short of money, abilities and sense does not resonate with me. What have they got to offer? You are hardly going to give them thousands of pounds of professional advice in return for them getting a loaf of bread for you. I can understand that you might swap thousands of pounds worth of your professional expertise and time in return for someone thoroughly spring cleaning your house over and over until the amount is paid, but cannot see such lazy people being competent, reliable or willing anyway.
You have already run clubs, run charities and much more than most have done in that way, and already worked very hard, you are now choosing not to work at all. And of course you would not go to wash up at a charity, you struggle to do your own things, and it is not something a person who is used to being very well paid for professional work would do.
You would also get behind with your own things as too busy to do them then.
The sad thing is that there are few women like yourself about and nothing you do will change this. It's not about you learning how to say no or going elsewhere, you have done all of that. You need to make the most of the few people you have already met who are suitable and avoid the unsuitable ones. Be glad of what you have and hope that it will increase in the future. Make the most of your marriage to your husband and having more spare time and remember that one good friend is worth hundreds of unsuitable ones.
Personally if I had done as much charity work as you have, and worked as hard as you have for years, I would find it very difficult to spend time with people who have never worked, even if they were nicer.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie  +, writes (29 December 2022):
 I think it has to do with boundaries.
The older we get the more we like things to be OUR way (I know I'm that way at least) but your way and my way might not "mesh" and then YOU (and I) need to have some firm boundaries.
the lady you helped out (the one who went into the hospital) I would have cut off the MOMENT I found out she couldn't be bothered to let me know she was home and doing ok, I would NOT have let her try and con me into doing MORE for her. Or to try and rope my husband in either - JUST no.
She wasn't a friend, to begin with. You two were friendly, yes, and she found out you had great organizational skills and took full advantage. She didn't ask ANY of her "real" friends - she asked you. That way she would APPEAR to her "real" friends to have her shit together, even when going into the hospital. She also asked YOU to come to clean her house? Not her "real" friends.
That says ALL you need to know about HOW she views you. You are not someone she really regards as a friend. You are, however, competent and "useful".
She even TOLD you this.
"She explained that she did not count me as a friend, she saw all the others as friends and me as her go-to person to help her when she needs help!"
If people TELL you who they are and HOW they see you, believe them.
You need to learn the skill of saying NO. No - is a complete sentence.
If someone is "nagging" you to help you, tell them THIS is my FEE, I don't have time or the inclination to work for free. If they don't want to pay. oh well, ask someone else.
BLOCK people who just want to use you. And if you don't want to do that. TAKE forever to reply. And use the sentence "No, sorry I can't". Be busy.
If people show up at your house - YOU get to decide HOW long (if at all) to socialize. It's easy to say, "Oh it's lovely to see you but hubby and I are heading out in 15 minutes, so today is not a great day for a visit, how about we schedule it for another day?"
Also, it's ABSOLUTELY Ok to say, no I can't help you with XYZ, I'm retied now and don't do that anymore.
"Like I have to pay for the privilege of their company."
You don't owe them squat. BUT here is the thing, when you do favors for others they should pay in kind at times too, right? Have you ever asked them for favors? If not, why not? Or how did it go?
Perhaps you should look into local clubs for retired career/businesswomen. Like a chapter of a Women's Division Chamber of Commerce? You will probably have more in common with these ladies than the ones you are trying to be friends with.
Do you have any hobbies? Maybe look into charities you want to help with or whatever "tickles" your fancy and meet people that way.
Lastly, it's OK to discover that SOMe people are users and not good friends and NOT someone you actually want to spend time with. Not everyone is going to be your cup of tea, and you are not going to be everyone's cup of tea either. Be picky. It's OK
You say you feel like unpaid staff, that is UP to you though, you don't HAVE to help anyone. Ever. One thing is if you WANT to, but you don't OWE your skillset to anyone.
You, my dear, need to learn to say NO. And mean it. If they get mad or don't want to be friends... They were never friends, to begin with!!
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