A
female
age
41-50,
*aviebelle
writes:I am a 40 year old woman.. Separated from an alcoholic husband, no children but I work and manage on my own. I also live on my own. Of late I have a lot of interest from married men. This is the second one in 3 years and I like them as friends but they always want more. Even if I do like someone, he happens to have a girlfriend who was never mentioned. I like the attention as I am very lonely but it's heartbreaking when you realise how empty your life is. This married man doesn't have kids and that doesn't absolve me of guilt. I don't want anything from him but his friendship and advice help me go through life. Why do I respond to them? Is my self esteem low? Am I so desperate and pathetic a creature? I am a good person - I help others. I always give and never ask. Why do I let myself be taken for a ride like this? What can I do to get out of it? No one single seems to like me.. I've tried dating sites and it hasn't worked. What can I do to be a good person again? Thank you for your help.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (9 August 2015): I'm very similar to you but a bit older (though I'm told time and again I look extremely young for my age) and I do have a grown up daughter. I married young to an alcoholic who I divorced at 25, then had an eighteen year relationship with a guy who became a binge drinker.
The issue you want to address can get more complex the more you want to think about it - and I'm not sure how much you do want to understand it or how much you just want to change the habit you've fallen into.
What I've learned is mainly through thinking this out deeply for myself but also a bit of counselling and the book Co-Dependency for Dummies as well as lots of internet searches.
Some of this may apply to you.
I learned that because I was emotionally neglected by my mother as a child and adolescent, I have a tendency to crave very intense, potent love and this will always be a weakness. At the same time, I didn't learn what stable, consistent and disciplined commitment and love feel like, coming to me from another person. As well as this, my father (whom I adored) went into hospital when I was fourteen and his operation went wrong. He finally returned 6 months later and was completely unrecognisable as my Dad, both in terms of what he looked like and his personality; he had gone from being warm and affectionate towards me, to being absolutely nasty. Because my Mum hated me and there was no support at all, ever from her, there was no-one to help me to process how to cope with my Dad's change of character. After that, he was in and out of hospital for thirteen years, often at short notice, often returning doped up to the eyeballs on morphine.
The outcome of this is that my self esteem was non-existent; it was as if my real Dad, who loved me, had been replaced by this monster claiming to be my Dad, and I blamed myself for being inadequate, feeling that he had somehow come to reject me because I was, after all, worthless. I craved my old Dad and craved the love he used to give me. But I learned the hard way that it was never to return and, what happened instead, was that this set up a pattern for me to be with emotionally unavailable men.
Emotionally unavailable men are everywhere. They can be emotionally unavailable because they aren't connected to their emotions or because their emotions are so overwhelming for them to deal with that they have to drink or take drugs or gamble in order to cope with the turmoil of emotions they feel. They can also be emotionally unavailable because they are morally or ethically unavailable; eg. a counsellor should be emotionally unavailable to a client as a partner, because he/she has a duty to retain boundaries. Ditto teachers, dentists, doctors, social workers etc.
Woman with damaged self esteem and early experiences of an emotionally unavailable Dad (whether through practical reasons eg. he works away a lot and therefore his emotions aren't available as a consistent resource to draw from, or whether he is just emotionally 'flat' or traumatised as described above) or sometimes Mum or both (it doesn't always matter what gender the parent is, we just seek love from unavailable partners as a result) tend to gravitate towards unavailable men. You did this in your marriage to an alcoholic and you are doing it with these men. The reason it bewilders you is that you haven't realised that you don't know any other kind of experience, of healthy, consistent and reliable love. Unavailable men tend to either give sudden, massive and often immature and 'crazy' doses of very heady 'love' in amongst the bleakness and blankness they otherwise offer, or the downright selfishness they usually indulge in because they've not grown up. This keeps us hooked, hoping it will always be that way. OR they give hints of a love that might become available to us, if we just try hard enough.
With these married men, you are gravitating towards them because they are unavailable and this feels familiar to you - you don't know anything else. at the same time, you're starting to recognise that this isn't healthy or what you want. And you found the strength, like I did, to leave a relationship with an alcoholic. These are signs in your favour.
On their side of is, the men who are married and always want more - well, I could tell you a "shocking" thing or two about my experiences and bewilderment in regard to these men. they are typically downright selfish and immature and they are emotionally unavailable not just because they are married, but because their emotions haven't matured anyway - they're probably emotionally unavailable to their wives as well, but they like the comfort she brings - usually housekeeping and sex (which they will complain is not satisfactory) and because the wife very often acts as replacement MUM to these men who can't grow up. Don't fool yourself for a second thinking that if the wives are replacement Mum's then maybe you can be something other - these men ONLY see women as mother figures or as prostitutes. They won't call it that, but that's the two views they have of women - as nurturing and there to provide comfort and stability (which they moan about endlessly) or to be treated similarly to a prostitute - used for the sex they can't get with their wives but they love the danger of betraying the wife - it makes them feel more powerful, when in fact they're just inflating their own, immature ego.
I really agree with the other respondent that the best thing to do would be to start joining some groups and classes and maybe get a bit of counselling to talk through this issue with someone. My guess is that you have experienced something traumatic in early life - and this can even be something that is not obvious, to anyone, as traumatic - that has made you feel abandoned inside and has lowered your self worth, always inclining you to seek the 'crazy', passionate doses of love that I talk about, from men who are otherwise incredibly needy and detached, even angry and aggressive.
Until you replace your old experiences with new ones, you won't generate new patterns in your own mind. You have to put the seeds in there for new beginnings and effectively re-wire your brain to expect different things. It sounds corny and its not easy for us with low self esteem to do, but it can really help to kick start this if you notice when you are being critical and harsh with yourself and make a general rule to say the opposite to yourself. I started this by looking in the mirror and noting how much I criticised my appearance - it was incredibly harsh. I then talked to myself, in my mind if not verbally, as if I was my own friend, making kind comments. It felt weird at first but it did at least highlight to me how very harsh I was being to myself, because of low self esteem. There are loads of books you can buy about low self esteem. But the book I found most helpful was Co-Dependency for Dummies. It really helps to explain why some of us end up in relationships where we are co-dependent with an unavailable person and how this pattern can keep recurring, even if we break the first relationship and try to move on. It covers issues like low self esteem and where they begin, and gives advice about forming new habits and understanding your own and other people's behaviours.
You're questioning yourself whereas some people wouldn't; to me this is the most important thing because without that self-quekstining you'd be a lost cause. You're not, because you have the basis to begin to grow and to move onwards. Importantly, you are only 40 and you may feel that 40 is too late but I can reassure you that there is no way on earth that 40 is going to keep the stigma it has previously had; our generation is the one making sure that the stigma is eroded forever and that older people are viewed differently and valued more in the future. Do you really think that all these young kids today, who think the world revolves around them, are going to just fade away after 40? No way! We are the ones making 40 the new 30 and they will damned well make sure it stays that way. So, as a woman whose been through similar experiences, I really urge you to go for it and read this book and start valuing yourself and learning more about yourself. Form more relationships with women too, it will really help if you find the right, supportive friends. Good luck!
A
reader, anonymous, writes (9 August 2015): You are fascinated by stealing the attention of men, already committed to other women. It gives you a false sense of validation. You claim you want nothing but friendship and advice. Bull! You love the suspense and intrigue of going after the forbidden-fruit!
You tell yourself it's okay to play with fire. My lady, you are appealing to your vanity. It gives you a cheap thrill, and a sense of power. You use your femininity to manipulate men. You don't want anything, you claim. The two affairs you were involved in, were all totally voluntary; and you deliberately and willfully dove into them. If you have the character and values you say you have, you would have avoided such dramatic and shady situations. What was the point, if it isn't good for you?
I'm not trying to judge you; but I can only go by what I've read. There is no pretty way to put it. You are a conscientious and decent person; yet you did bypass your value system. So your involvement with these men was exploitative in nature. On both sides!!!
Sex being the underlying tool of manipulation. You teased and tempted them. That was a bit narcissistic. Your ego was also starving for attention, and demanding the gratification of flattery. Meanwhile; you overruled your better judgement. Trying to feel desirable, by being a temptation to men. If he's married, that upped your value. I don't know about all that nonsense about just needing his advice? What does he get in return for the time and risk? There's another woman he's supposed to provide that to. You're on her time.
Your remorse is certain proof that you know better. Now you regret it all; because you wasted a lot of your precious time. What you truly need was postponed or delayed, while you were appealing to your vanity. You really want more than that; and you also know you deserve better than that. It's just hard to admit, you've let yourself down.
No problem. It's as easy as just picking yourself up, and moving on. You simply start out fresh, and pursue what you really want. Move forward, and don't look back.
It's all out of your system now. There is nothing holding you back. You're human. We need certain things that are/ were missing, and sometimes look for satisfaction in the wrong places. Who isn't guilty of doing that? Let them cast the first stone! We know it's wrong, but we do it anyway; because we demand satisfaction. Even when we know the methods and direction we took to get to it, was outside who we really are. Been there and done that, girlfriend! Never with a married-man. I have to draw the line there.
So, you wipe the slate clean. Use what you've learned.
Avoid repeating your mistakes. You move on and try to make the best of the rest of your life. Eventually, on that journey; you cross paths with the right man/men. Meanwhile; you look to other strong women to help you sort things out.
For guidance, and support.
Emotionally, women heal each other as well as any costly
counseling you can find. Some things just aren't clinical.
They are spiritual, philosophical, and involves a part of your being that doesn't require scientific intervention. Just the wisdom of other women who care. Females who have corrected those same mistakes you're making; and prospered from successfully growing, once they came out on the other side of it.
Continue dating, but run like a race horse with your tail on fire; if you meet-up with some other woman's man. Claim your self-worth based on your decency, good deeds, and accomplishments. Be self-aware of your goodness as an individual, and keep improving on it. You don't have to "respond." If you know it's all for the wrong reasons, and to the wrong men. You're not stupid, nor evil.
Whatever it is in your past that keeps you repeating it,
face it and fix it. Burn it, then bury it deep in the ground. All that men did to you in the past, is in the past. What kills and hurts people, is pain they won't let go of; or they're refusing to allow themselves to have closure. They cling to pain for survival, instead of enjoying life. They pay thousands of dollars for therapy; only to be told to do just that. It's not always attributed to mental disease or weakness. Just human nature, my dear.
Stop dragging that baggage around, and making excuses for doing so. Tell yourself everyday you're blessed to open your eyes, that you deserve better; and you will pray, persevere, beg, borrow, and work your ass off until you get there. Nothing to it, but to do it. Been there, and done that too!
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A
male
reader, olderthandirt  +, writes (9 August 2015):
 All men are always "looking around" just to see what (or who) is out there. Surely you've heard that men have a permenant lustfull nature that is fantisizing about being with other women. Most do not act on our natural instincts due to self-control. Others fail to self -edit and are always coming off as crude, etc. You may be just overly sensitive to the natural forward nature of men because of your past negative experiences. Or, you might be very desirable.
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465  +, writes (9 August 2015):
 Here's the basis of your "problem": "...I always give and never ask..."
And the answer to THIS question: "What can I do to get out of it?".... is: Say "NO" a lot.
Good luck.....
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A
male
reader, mfj78 +, writes (9 August 2015):
sadly if you allow your loneliness and need for company show to men, many will want to take advantage of that vulnerability.
If you come across as needing a friend, being lonely and feeling empty it will put off single men looking for a long term relationship. It will also encourage loosers who want to take advantage of your loneliness and need for a confidence boost by trying to get you into bed.
Mark
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (9 August 2015):
 I have to ask why your friend HAVE to be male? Do you not have any female friends? Because they can help and guide as much as any man can. And without the hassle of sexual undertones.
We all enjoy attention, but I think you set the bar way to low for yourself and it puts you in positions where you don't nip it in the bud at the first sing of it not just being friendship they look for.
Have you tried saying, I don't WANT anything BUT friendship fro you? Or are you "Hinting" at it or being vague?
Some men (married or not) can "sniff" out easy "prey. You may not be aware of how your "niceness" can be perceived by someone who is LOOKING to take advantage.
I don't think it's a matter of you NOT being a good person, but you NEED to be able to set boundaries for the people around you.
I get that dating sites didn't work for you - I don't think if I was ever single again that I would touch dating sites at all. I think it's a much better bet to do meetup groups, joining hobby clubs etc. and met people that way.
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A
female
reader, Slippers +, writes (9 August 2015):
Your not bad for wanting or craving attention . It's the way your going about it .. married men are not the way to go .It's just a train wreck waiting to happen . Do you have any female friends ? As going out socialising and finding comfort in the fact that your not the only one looking for Mr right can help .. I go out with my single friends and I'm married . But it's good for me to go out with the girls too, as it's a release of tension plus the compliments of guys don't go amiss .. its nice to be recognised as a sexual being for me that's it as I'm married
But for you when out, you can see whether it's going to go anywhere .
Take up a sport as well .. I find squash good my friend meet her guy there after we played and went to the bar
Take up a hobbies ..jog maybe
Use the single time to learn what you like .. want .. and when your not looking I bet Mr right will turn up .. He may not be perfect ( who is) he may be rusty and need help being polished ..
Just take the compliment from the married man like water to a duck and move on
Take Care sweetie
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